What is Satan's ULTIMATE goal?

[buttercup]

Without giving a straight yes or no answer, you implied that you DON'T think people should live forever on this earth.

Sorry, I ignored your question, as you posed it in a loaded way, assuming the answer. No, I don't think humans should live forever, as it would upset our ecosystem and actually, in my estimation, make life worse for most humans.

But then you turn around and say that it's immoral for God to "take" our life, for whatever reason.

Right, just as it is immoral for any entity to do so. You keep forgetting that ascribing magical horseshit to your sky daddy does not impress me and does not then, in my mind, remove moral accountability from him. That's your bag, not mine. You start from a first premise that God can do anything he wants without fear of being held morally accountable, and then pester people as to why they do not agree. I don't agree, because it's a steaming pile of amoral horseshit. What else can I say? the god you invented is an evil, immoral concept, and I reject it wholecloth.

I simply do not accept that God designed anything at all. I think your intentional slavery is immoral and stupid.

Ok, well, that's still a contradiction. We all die. It has to happen sometime. I know you're not a believer, but for the sake of argument, I'm asking you at what point would it be "moral" in your view, for God to end our life? At 100-120 years? And it's immoral before then?

Here's the bottom line. As the author of life itself, God is the ONLY being in existence who can take a life, as He sees fit. The big problem here is you're basing your view on several very wrong assumptions. Your first wrong assumption is that God is evil, or at least not good. That is flat out false, not to mention childish, ignorant and illogical. Of course if you start off with that assumption, you can then point to God ending our lives and say "That's wrong and immoral!!" But when you know that God is good, you understand that death was never part of God's original design, it is certainly not what God wants, and in God's ideal world (heaven) there is no death. But when it happens here, on this earth, there is always a reason, a purpose, that ultimately works for GOOD. You just don't realize that, because you're a hardcore, angry, spiritually blind atheist who has no understanding when it comes to God and Christianity.

You're also starting off with other false assumptions, but I'm not going to take the time right now to go through all that, and write a book here. Let me put it this way. Angry atheists waving their fist at God (while enjoying all the blessings of life, and there are many) is akin to a 3 year old having a tantrum because they simply don't have the mental /emotional capacity to understand why Mommy and Daddy do certain things.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Ok, well, that's still a contradiction.

Only to you, because you insist that God designed everything. So, therefore, the fact rthat humans don't live forever is his design. And, since god must be perfect, then god taking any life at any time is always moral andf right.

that's your argument, in a nutshell. And I reject it as immoral, ad magical horseshit, and as really very, very stupid.

Again, what do you aim to accomplish, here? i am not suddenly going to buy into your magical voodoo and release your invented god character from moral accountability. Not ever.

Now, go ahead, wrap things up like you always do: Threaten me with eternal suffering. you know, like good little moral servants of god like to do.

 

[Faun]

”What is Satan's ULTIMATE goal?”

To build his wall he campaigned on.

 

[S.J.]

I'd like to know why people who claim to be atheists participate in discussions that ask questions of people who are not atheists? Is it just trolling or are they angry at God for not being what they think he should be? They seem to be under the expression that God is there to serve us instead of the other way around. How egotistical, but that's a leftist for you, they're the center of the universe.

 

[cnm]

Or I just had a busy Saturday, missing your question and you could ask me again.

As though the question was not pointed out. I pity your pupils.

 

[SweetSue92]

Or I just had a busy Saturday, missing your question and you could ask me again.

As though the question was not pointed out. I pity your pupils.

You would rather insult my profession than restate the question.

Mindful is right about you. Dismissed

 

[buttercup]

Only to you, because you insist that God designed everything. So, therefore, the fact rthat humans don't live forever is his design.

Sorry, but what you said is a contradiction any way you slice it. And you STILL haven't answered my question, that I asked you twice.

Secondly, no, you're ignoring an important point that you conveniently cut out when you quoted me. God's original design/intent was for us to live forever. From a Christian perspective, it wasn't until sin came into the world that death began. So, no, the way the world is now is NOT God's original design or ideal. This world is just temporary. There is a way to have the original plan that God had for all of us...but since you made it clear you would never want that, I won't bother you by bringing it up.

And, since god must be perfect, then god taking any life at any time is always moral andf right.

that's your argument, in a nutshell. And I reject it as immoral, ad magical horseshit, and as really very, very stupid.

So God is just like you and me? Can you see the total picture, from beginning to end? Do you have all the knowledge there is to know? Are you the giver of life itself? No, God is nothing like you or me, so that is another one of your false assumptions, and when your argument is based on wrong assumptions, your conclusion will inevitably be wrong.

Again, what do you aim to accomplish, here? i am not suddenly going to buy into your magical voodoo and release your invented god character from moral accountability. Not ever.

Now, go ahead, wrap things up like you always do: Threaten me with eternal suffering. you know, like good little moral servants of god like to do.

Of course I'm not expecting you to suddenly believe. I'm just correcting some of your false assumptions and asking you to defend your position. Which you didn't, since you cut out 98% of my post, and just repeated the same emotional "I'm never going to believe!" rant you did in your previous posts.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I'd like to know why people who claim to be atheists participate in discussions that ask questions of people who are not atheists?

because it is an open discussion. Why do you participate in threads about climate science? Why do flat earthers participate in discussions about our round planet? It's open discussion.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Sorry, but what you said is a contradiction any way you slice it.

False, nor did you demonstrate any such contradiction outside the confines of your own assertions, which I reject prima facie.

And you STILL haven't answered my question, that I asked you twice.

Then ask me again, because I don't mean to dodge questions.

So God is just like you and me?

.Who cares? God is a made up character. I can say "God" is anything i feel like saying he is, and there will never be any way to tell if I am right or wrong. The only reason I even grant you any of the nonsense you claim is to show you that, even when you are granted the truth of your magical assertions, your arguments are STILL absurd. that's a tactic, not an admission that any of your magical, bullshit claims have any truth to them whatsoever.

 

[buttercup]

Sorry, but what you said is a contradiction any way you slice it.

False, nor did you demonstrate any such contradiction outside the confines of your own assertions, which I reject prima facie.

And you STILL haven't answered my question, that I asked you twice.

Then ask me again, because I don't mean to dodge questions.

So God is just like you and me?

.Who cares? God is a made up character. I can say "God" is anything i feel like saying he is, and there will never be any way to tell if I am right or wrong. The only reason I even grant you any of the nonsense you claim is to show you that, even when you are granted the truth of your magical assertions, your arguments are STILL absurd. that's a tactic, not an admission that any of your magical, bullshit claims have any truth to them whatsoever.

It's nearly impossible to have this discussion with you, because you keep going back and forth from arguing in theory, to stating something akin to "but God doesn't exist."

Keep in mind that obviously I know you're not a believer, but we're arguing whether or not the God of the bible is immoral, so when we talk about this, it doesn't matter if you don't believe God exists, we're arguing this in theory, and you have to temporarily assume God exists for the sake of argument. You cant keep going back and forth, first arguing God's "immorality" as if God exists, but then when I reply, you basically resort back to something dismissive about God not existing. God's existence is an entirely different discussion, for a different thread.

So, if you can debate this in theory, I will continue. If not, I'm just wasting my time here.

 

[rightwinger]

Pull out your Bible and point out evil deeds of satan

The Book of Job, the Bible, all verses. It shows the extent of Satan's disrespect of the Almighty's influence upon a man, who suffers but survives without denying God whom he firmly believes will bring him through all forms of other people's disbelief, and guess what: Satan loses the famous bet, and God wins because He knew Job's faith was absolute. Because he believes in God and not himself through all the garbage Satan put him through using his frail body and his friends to harass him--because of his faith in God, he not only defeats the purposes of Satan, he wins not only restoration of all he lost, he is rewarded by becoming a beacon to future generations whenever his story is seen and comprehended by others who chuck doubts for faith in God, the creator. Job's life is like the olive branch that God extends to those who see no value in beliefs but are changed by their full understanding of what God can do when life itself hands you the lemon of disbelief.

The story of Job is some pretty sick shit

Job is used in a sick bet between God and Satan. Kind of like the movie Trading Places

Job is a good person and God allows him to be tortured beyond belief just to make a point

People who win marathons put themselves through the ultimate torture of pain and perseverance in order to win a prize. I suppose if you spin winners enough times, you can blame God to discourage others, Mr. Devil's Advocate.

Actually, those who win marathons are in amazing shape. They are in no way tortured

But back to the Book of Job

God and Satan are involved in a sick bet
Not only is Job tortured but his children are killed

How do you justify killing innocent children to settle a sick bet?

Not something a loving god would do

Quote: Actually, those who win marathons are in amazing shape. They are in no way tortured​

Obviously, you did not train very hard to win a marathon or to be the best runner that you can be.

Quote: God and Satan are involved in a sick bet.
​

Obviously, you did not know that God knew the outcome ahead of time; Satan did not.

Quote: Not only is Job tortured but his children are killed
​

Obviously you cannot recall what his children were doing at the time they were killed, nor do you know that every life from God is a predetermined gift.

Quote: How do you justify killing innocent children to settle a sick bet?​

Justification comes from God, not man.

Quote: Not something a loving god would do.​

With all that criticism coming from you to disparage God in public is heard. I hope you change your mind before your life ends.

​

​

Same old, how dare you question God?

I hold God to a higher standard than I hold man

I would not hold a man in high regard who killed someone’s children just to win a bet

 

[rightwinger]

Don’t blame me, the Bible is your book

In the Bible, god is egotistical
Worship me or else. His punishments were often extreme. Flood the earth and kill all but a handful, kill the innocent first born of Egypt, famine, pestilence

Satan is more of a tempter. He does not outright kill people. He will exploit your weaknesses but the ultimate decision to sin is yours

I’m not blaming you, brother. I am telling you that what you read is beyond your comprehension because you make no effort to understand it. It’s easier for you to build straw men then to make an honest effort.

Again....I didn’t write the Bible but I understand what killing and torture is.
It is not Satan doing it, it comes from God

No straw man, just an honest assessment of what is in the Bible

Oh bullshit. There is nothing honest about what you do.

You try to disprove God through the words in a book rather than through the natural world. Everything you do is backwards. If you study the natural world you cannot help but believe that there is a creator and then the words in that book might make more sense to you. At the very least you will stop treating it as a fairy tale. There is a very good reason why everything you read in that book is skewed. It's the result you are seeking.

Exactly

The Bible is a group of parables written by man to get other men to commit to their religion. None of it is true, there is no Satan, there is no Hell, there are no pearly gates

Another patently ridiculous statement.

Much of the Bible is actually, historically true. And is documented.

It does not do a very good job representing the historical record

Look at Moses

Egyptians kept good historical records but make no mention of Gods plagues or of losing an army in the Red Sea

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

It's nearly impossible to have this discussion with you

Correct, as I told you. You want to have this discussion within the framework of all of your own personal fetishes and assumptions. And I reject them from the start.so yes, you really are wasting your time to try to force upon me a conditional statement or argument, I just simply do not agree with your first premise.

 

[buttercup]

Correct, as I told you. You want to have this discussion within the framework of all of your own personal fetishes and assumptions. And I reject them from the start.so yes, you really are wasting your time to try to force upon me a conditional statement or argument, I just simply do not agree with your first premise.

Ha. You just proved you don't understand how debating works. And your emotional words show that you are incapable of an actual debate, especially one that is civil and even remotely fruitful. How lame.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

You just proved you don't understand how debating works.

No, that's absurd crybabying. Debating does not involve accepting first premises you would argue or demonstrate as false, and then letting your lying opponent set the groundwork within a universe where his bullshit is true. We would first have to debate your magical horseshit that god exists, is perfect, and designed everything perfectly. you insist that I accept these premises for the sake of discussion. I refuse. so now you are whining about it.

 

[cnm]

You would rather insult my profession than restate the question.

The question was restated here a post or so back. A post to which you responded.

Perhaps he's learnt from experience you won't answer. For instance, after you asserted universal morality existed I asked you what it was but received no reply. I guess that's just the way it is.

I pity your pupils. That is not an insult to your profession, only to your professionalism.

 

[keepitreal]

What is Satan's ULTIMATE goal?

Steal, kill and destroy

Remove/prevent/weaken faith
in the 1 true, living God and His Son, Jesus

All you have to do is look around

 

[buttercup]

You just proved you don't understand how debating works.

No, that's absurd crybabying. Debating does not involve accepting first premises you can demonstrate are false, and then letting your lying opponent set the groundwork wthin a universe where his bullshit is true,. We would first have to debate your magical horseshit that god exists, is perfect, and designed everything perfectly. you insist that I accept these premises for the sake of discussion. I refuse. so now you are whining about it.

No, you're still not getting it. Let me try to be super clear with you. There are two different debates. One is the debate on whether or not the Christian God's actions are moral or immoral. ANOTHER debate is the existence of God in the first place. You were going back and forth, first arguing that the God of the bible is immoral, and then when I tried to show you where you were wrong, you switch over to an entirely different debate, the existence of God. Again, two separate debates.

Let me put it this way. I could have an argument with someone about the morality of a character in a fictional book, I don't have to actually believe that character is real, in order to argue that in the context of the writing itself, the character is not evil. Do you understand what I'm saying? You're unwilling to even go there, which is actually quite interesting and telling, imo. To me that shows a fear that your assumptions will be proven wrong. So you always resort to switching to an entirely different debate. That is your tactic, but you are either not honest enough or bright enough to admit/understand that.

 

[buttercup]

And btw, I've seen other atheists do that, as well. My dad was an atheist (until right before he died) and I remember how frustrating it was to discuss or debate these things with him, because he was all over the place, and in a very emotional way, like you, employed just about every logical fallacy that exists.

Another thing he would do is leap-frog from one topic to another, but without ever completing the previous discussion. In other words, when he realized he was getting close to losing that particular debate, he would immediately leap to an entirely different debate, and that would keep happening, within the span of just minutes. It was incredibly frustrating, which is why after a certain number of years, I stopped arguing with him altogether, and just prayed for him, and loved him, despite his opposing worldview.

 

[cnm]

One is the debate on whether or not the Christian God's actions are moral or immoral.

Care to define morality?