What is the goal of capitalism?

[Cellblock2429]

Lift the sanctions.

/——/ There are plenty of countries where Cuba can buy anything it wants or needs. Problem is the slave state is dirt poor.

 

[Kruska]

No, not really, getting wealthy is about creating a customer network with a constant stream of revenue.
It is not hard work that makes people rich, but their ability to create a team that can help them create and expand such a network.

In order to create a customer network - one needs to have a production source first, either an own or a supplier. 1st things first.

My friend started a plumbing business 30 years ago - and worked off his bud in the first 15 years. The he started to employ more people, now 30 years later he employs around 12 people and has a great live. Now folks like you will come and talk about customer network and how he supposedly exploits his "poor" employees and workers.

Another friend of mine started his car repair/maintenance-shop business 35 years ago- worked off his bud for 20 years, with me helping him financially and in regards to creating a customer base, when he ran into financial difficulties after 5 years - today his company is Germany's largest or 2nd largest supplier in that field. There is a lot more to creating, starting and keep running an own business - then what you seem to believe.

 

[Mac-7]

Communism turned Russia into the second-largest economy in the world and a world nuclear superpower.

But it didnt last

Communism failed to sustain itself and ultimately imploded because it could not keep up with western capitalist innovation

 

[Kruska]

I'm educating you on who it is that is a lazy bum parasite. ....

YOU certainly can't educate me in that regard - since YOU obviously never worked in your entire life, not even to mention starting your own business.

All your kind can do is burst due to personal envy - and ignoring the facts as to how companies got started in the first place. Then you cite examples from 1855 to document capitalism in it's extreme form - ignoring again all the amendments and improvements done by entrepreneurs and company owners till today.

You know who was the fattest, most unsympathetic, most garbage talking - cigar smoking dude, with a luxury watch, in a MBB-DASA (today EADS) meeting? correct, the Union boss.
So spare me your Commie talk, and keep it to the nitwits amongst the lazy.

 

[Red Front]

YOU certainly can't educate me in that regard - since YOU obviously never worked in your entire life, not even to mention starting your own business.

All your kind can do is burst due to personal envy - and ignoring the facts as to how companies got started in the first place. Then you cite examples from 1855 to document capitalism in it's extreme form - ignoring again all the amendments and improvements done by entrepreneurs and company owners till today.

You know who was the fattest, most unsympathetic, most garbage talking - cigar smoking dude, with a luxury watch, in a MBB-DASA (today EADS) meeting? correct, the Union boss.
So spare me your Commie talk, and keep it to the nitwits amongst the lazy.

YOU certainly can't educate me in that regard - since YOU obviously never worked in your entire life....

I am of the working class, hence I work, as an employee (exploitee), for someone like you an employer (exploiter), who pays me and my co-workers less than what we produce. My capitalist employer extracts surplus value off of my labor, by taking more than the value of the goods and services that I and my co-workers produce. I'm not a loser or a sucker, much less lazy as you claimed in a previous post, for working for a capitalist, it's just the way of life I was born into. I'm not of the wealthy-owner elite, who own me for 10 hours daily, 6 days weekly. Many of them don't really have to lift a finger, thanks to the work of others.

​

You're a multi-millionaire you live quite well off of the work of your employees. Adam Smith the father of capitalism, calls you a "master":

" What are the common wages of labour, depends everywhere upon the contract usually made between those two parties, whose interests are by no means the same. The workmen desire to get as much, the masters (capitalists) to give as little as possible. The former are disposed to combine (form labor unions) in order to raise, the latter in order to lower the wages of labour.

It is not, however, difficult to foresee which of the two parties must, upon all ordinary occasions, have the advantage in the dispute, and force the other into a compliance with their terms. The masters, being fewer in number, can combine (form their own unions = chambers of commerce, industry associations, guilds, super-PACs, NGO astroturf fronts, armies of lobbyists, think tanks/stink tanks, political parties) much more easily; and the law, besides, authorizes or at least does not prohibit their combinations, while it prohibits those of the workmen.

We have no acts of parliament against combining to lower the price of work; but many against combining to raise it (the government often doesn't support through its legislation the creation of labor unions, only the unionizing/organizing of the rich and powerful masters). In all such disputes the masters can hold out much longer. A landlord, a farmer, a master manufacturer, or merchant, though they did not employ a single workman, could generally live a year or two upon the stocks which they have already acquired. Many workmen could not subsist a week, few could subsist a month, and scarce any a year without employment. In the long-run the workman may be as necessary to his master as his master is to him, but the necessity is not so immediate." (Wealth Of Nations), Online Source:

Adam Smith, Against the masters (1776)

​

You're a capitalist master, with your own personal and class financial interests, which according to Smith, aren't the financial interests of your mastered employees. I work all fucking day in the tyranny of the capitalist workplace, where I have no say about anything. I shut up and I work. If I try to unionize with my fellow workers, I get fired. The US government hardly protects me against my master's power to set the terms of my employment/exploitation, without much influence from me.

I am powerful in union (in "communion") with my co-workers, the other members of my class, but not alone as an individual employee. I get eaten alive by the capitalist masters and that's why they hate labor unions.

Masters love "negotiating" the terms of employment (of their exploitation) with one individual, weaker, needy worker, not with a powerful labor union. Actually, as an American worker in 2023, I unfortunately don't even know much about labor unions, because I've been brainwashed by my capitalist masters, who tell me that socioeconomic classes don't even exist. Adam Smith the father of capitalism, recognized the existence of classes, but not my capitalist masters. They filled my head with a bunch of bullshit about how I can also become a master uuuuuuuuuu yeaaaahhhhhhh. I can also become a rich, lazy parasite exploiting the hard work of others. Yeah!!!!!

I can become a master, exploiting human labor too. I don't see my co-workers as allies, I see them more as my competitors. A bunch of losers actually. I have disdain for workers (I hate myself) and those who break a sweat for their masters. I'm only a temporary member of the working-class. I will be a master one day, that way I don't have to work that much, if at all. I've been brainwashed to value pleasure, recreation, leisure, and riches, not working for a cause, serving my community with skill, professionalism, and excellence.

I have no say right now on how my workplace is run, because my master runs everything through his supervisors, but it's OK. I'm going to be a master one day or at least one of my master's unelected, henchmen-managers.

It's normal not to have democracy or any say on how the workplace is run, the place where I spend most of my waking hours, six days a week. Democracy only belongs in politics, not in the place where I work ten hours daily, six days weekly. To assume that democracy should also be in the workplace is a socialist idea, and we can't do that, that's evil. The current totalitarian workplace is good, socialism bad, always bad, bad. My capitalist master = good, my democratic government, is always bad, bad. Capitalist dictatorship and bureaucracy are always = good, the government democracy = bad.

Capitalism good good, US government, socialism, bad bad....​

not even to mention starting your own business.

That way I can be a master-parasite too? How wonderful.


All your kind can do is burst due to personal envy

I don't like being exploited by a capitalist master and lazy leech, so I'm "envious".
​

Our values are different. I value work and skill, more than worldly riches. Living and working for something greater than myself, is my wealth. I have no desire to exploit others for a profit. I prefer to prioritize my human relationships, with family and friends, my comrades, and serve my country. That is my highest value and aspiration. To live a principled, meaningful life, not to pursue profits at the expense and exploitation of others.

How about society makes every productive enterprise (the means of production), into worker-owned, democratically run cooperatives? We don't need capitalist masters like you. You're the worthless free-loafer, not the working class, who you said was lazy and worthless. You as a lazy capitalist leech are worthless.

We the people of the working class (96% of the population = everyone who sells their labor to a capitalist or actually works for a living without being a little exploiting dictator-parasite), don't need you. You're the lazy loser, who doesn't want to work. Value is in human labor, and work, not in private capital accumulation. The power is really in the hands of labor.

​

The public sector, with its government, if run democratically, under the power of the working class, is not inherently evil, as you capitalist masters are constantly, cynically, always telling us. Your privately owned, private profit-pursuing government dictatorship, which you call a "business enterprise", is where the real evil (exploitation, authoritarianism), always is in America. It's not the US government, that is the problem, it's capitalists like you.

The publicly owned and run, democratic government of the people, created by the people, for the people, can indeed become a tyranny, but that usually happens when it begins to serve the capitalist masters at the expense of the public good. Capitalism always, without fail, resorts to cronyism. It's an endemic aspect of capitalism.

Civil government is nothing more than a social apparatus, organized by the people, to manage their large scale socioeconomic civil affairs and projects. That's it. It's not inherently good, nor is it inherently bad, it's whatever we the people, want it to be. The capitalist masters dumb down the public, through the media, their cronies in government, and their influence over us in the workplace, deluding us into thinking that they're the good guys that we should aspire to become (the highest ideal and position is to become a capitalist exploiter too, living off of other people's hard work).

The people that we elect into our democratic government are supposedly, by default, always corrupt and bad, and amount to nothing. The government can't do anything right, except of course send the rich more money:

RANK	PARENT	SUBSIDY VALUE.	NUMBER OF AWARDS
1	Boeing	$15,136,286,466	946
2	Intel	$8,371,896,017	133
3	Ford Motor	$7,761,916,195	815
4	General Motors	$7,594,509,872	990
5	Micron Technology	$6,785,681,915	18
6	Alcoa	$5,798,600,778	160
7	X-Energy LLC	$5,661,511,202	17
8	General Atomics	$5,465,529,295	438
9	Cheniere Energy	$5,431,565,870	41
10	Amazon.com	$5,191,773,349	333
11	Foxconn Technology Group (Hon Hai Precision Industry Company)	$4,827,036,483	76
12	Sempra Energy	$3,835,098,001	53
13	Southern Company	$3,783,360,569	130
14	NRG Energy	$3,586,516,301	268
15	Venture Global LNG	$3,285,883,566	6
16	NextEra Energy	$3,003,823,754	117
17	Tesla Inc.	$2,836,366,619	116
18	Sasol	$2,836,049,845	72
19	Stellantis	$2,800,442,867	230
20	Volkswagen	$2,740,983,143	222
21	General Electric	$2,529,193,561	1,668
22	Nucor	$2,514,358,340	158
23	Walt Disney	$2,421,304,588	248
24	Brookfield Asset Management	$2,339,430,278	304
25	Toyota	$2,303,826,689	199
26	Iberdrola	$2,285,768,043	112
27	Summit Power	$2,240,568,236	8
28	Shell PLC	$2,184,517,527	141
29	Oracle	$2,167,890,528	88
30	Mubadala Investment Company	$2,124,035,097	62
31	Nike	$2,104,917,829	138
32	Hyundai Motor	$2,072,957,848	27
33	SCS Energy	$1,927,236,683	10
34	Archer Daniels Midland	$1,920,305,787	1,099
35	Exxon Mobil	$1,891,153,489	207
36	NuScale Power	$1,880,780,589	34
37	Berkshire Hathaway	$1,859,775,471	1,158
38	Nissan	$1,842,814,165	87
39	Alphabet Inc.	$1,832,565,977	116
40	Paramount Global	$1,751,801,882	317
41	Apple Inc.	$1,750,043,420	36
42	Comcast	$1,722,467,426	376
43	JPMorgan Chase	$1,663,890,873	1,129
44	Cleveland-Cliffs	$1,654,401,303	137
45	Energy Transfer	$1,634,074,422	106
46	Samsung	$1,586,310,806	70
47	PG&E Corp.	$1,568,027,901	27
48	IBM Corp.	$1,562,738,626	387
49	SkyWest	$1,550,492,958	683
50	Rivian Automotive Inc.	$1,532,854,012	3
51	OGE Energy	$1,427,570,182	15
52	Panasonic	$1,385,969,341	61
53	Raytheon Technologies	$1,322,899,721	952
54	Duke Energy	$1,318,084,164	69
55	Lockheed Martin	$1,302,847,415	337
56	Corning Inc.	$1,272,628,059	395
57	Northrop Grumman	$1,266,804,354	266
58	Vingroup	$1,254,000,000	1
59	Continental AG	$1,244,875,478	111
60	Vornado Realty Trust	$1,243,857,336	32
61	Microsoft	$1,153,690,869	103
62	Jefferies Financial Group	$1,120,662,497	18
63	Meta Platforms Inc.	$1,105,098,844	53
64	Dow Inc.	$1,091,152,544	686
65	Abengoa	$1,082,660,583	63
66	SK Holdings	$1,081,550,283	9
67	LG	$1,055,690,737	103
68	Valero Energy	$1,054,520,860	199
69	Exelon	$1,040,601,369	98
70	AES Corp.	$1,010,194,632	132
71	CF Industries	$982,271,715	129
72	Pyramid Companies	$966,050,097	91
73	EDF-Electricite de France	$940,247,983	65
74	Texas Instruments	$940,071,436	60
75	Mazda Toyota Manufacturing, U.S.A., Inc.	$900,000,000	1
76	Air Products & Chemicals	$897,651,105	248
77	Delta Air Lines	$876,412,623	14
78	Centene	$875,064,432	54
79	Bayer	$849,175,809	202
80	Honda	$846,026,154	91
81	Enterprise Products Partners	$826,988,371	83
82	Shin-Etsu Chemical	$826,062,285	104
83	SunEdison	$812,753,318	119
84	Apollo Global Management	$804,565,970	471
85	Goldman Sachs	$801,573,386	255
86	E.ON	$782,609,880	38
87	Wolfspeed Inc.	$773,681,732	88
88	Triple Five Worldwide	$748,000,000	4
89	EDP-Energias de Portugal	$733,674,868	14
90	Warner Bros. Discovery Inc.	$725,632,525	206
91	Gotion	$715,000,000	1
92	American Electric Power	$699,673,821	92
93	Bank of America	$698,760,073	919
94	Johnson Controls	$691,180,720	144
95	Related Companies	$687,200,000	1
96	Caithness Energy	$670,379,738	28
97	Hyannis Air Service Inc.	$667,928,778	296
98	Koch Industries	$662,557,530	486
99	Sagamore Development	$660,000,000

​

The government is the strong-arm of the people. It's the power of the people. That's why capitalists and their brainwashed wage slaves, hate civil government so much. They drank their master's Kool-Aid and ironically vote against their own class interests. They hurt themselves in the service of their master's pursuit of profits.


- and ignoring the facts as to how companies got started in the first place.

Rich daddy, inheritance, bank loans, and several other sources of funding. How the privately owned enterprise is created that is run as a dictatorship, is irrelevant. The people that work the business should own it collectively and run it democratically. Eventually, this is the model that is going to have to be implemented due to advanced automation and artificial intelligence. Socialism is inevitable in the not-too-distant future. Those robots are amazing, haven't you seen them yet? They work 24/7.


Then you cite examples from 1855 to document capitalism in it's extreme form - ignoring again all the amendments and improvements done by entrepreneurs and company owners till today.

​

All of the worker rights that we have today came through a very long struggle of the left, pushing from below, to get our government to recognize and protect them. Everything from the eight-hour work day ideal (tens of millions of Americans work more than 8 hours daily but nonetheless that's the universally recognized "ideal" for fulltime work) to union labor rights, overtime pay, work-comp, the minimum wage, unemployment, social security, Medicare, Medicaid..etc. It was pushed from below with plenty of labor union strikes, protests, and struggles, to believe otherwise demonstrates your ignorance.


You know who was the fattest, most unsympathetic, most garbage talking - cigar smoking dude, with a luxury watch, in a MBB-DASA (today EADS) meeting? correct, the Union boss.
So spare me your Commie talk, and keep it to the nitwits amongst the lazy.

Oh yes the old canard that asserts ALL or MOST labor unions are corrupt and run by the Italian mafia, and unnecessary. As if the union-organizing of the wealthy ruling, capitalist class (chambers of commerce, industry associations, super-PACs, NGO-astroturf-fronts, lobbyists, think tanks..etc) are perfect and never corrupt. Does that render their efforts to organize illegitimate and unnecessary?

The union that I am a member of here in the state of NY, elects its leadership every five years at the highest state level and two years for its city reps. Nice try, it didn't work. Try another polemic. Socialism is the future, due to advanced automation and artificial intelligence. You might as well become a socialist now, and prepare for what is coming. The tech apocalypse is real:

We don't need capitalists. They're unnecessary middlemen and leeches.​

 

[Cellblock2429]

YOU certainly can't educate me in that regard - since YOU obviously never worked in your entire life....

I am of the working class, hence I work, as an employee (exploitee), for someone like you an employer (exploiter), who pays me and my co-workers less than what we produce. My capitalist employer extracts surplus value off of my labor, by taking more than the value of the goods and services that I and my co-workers produce. I'm not a loser or a sucker, much less lazy as you claimed in a previous post, for working for a capitalist, it's just the way of life I was born into. I'm not of the wealthy-owner elite, who own me for 10 hours daily, 6 days weekly. Many of them don't really have to lift a finger, thanks to the work of others.

View attachment 801904​

You're a multi-millionaire you live quite well off of the work of your employees. Adam Smith the father of capitalism, calls you a "master":

" What are the common wages of labour, depends everywhere upon the contract usually made between those two parties, whose interests are by no means the same. The workmen desire to get as much, the masters (capitalists) to give as little as possible. The former are disposed to combine (form labor unions) in order to raise, the latter in order to lower the wages of labour.

It is not, however, difficult to foresee which of the two parties must, upon all ordinary occasions, have the advantage in the dispute, and force the other into a compliance with their terms. The masters, being fewer in number, can combine (form their own unions = chambers of commerce, industry associations, guilds, super-PACs, NGO astroturf fronts, armies of lobbyists, think tanks/stink tanks, political parties) much more easily; and the law, besides, authorizes or at least does not prohibit their combinations, while it prohibits those of the workmen.

We have no acts of parliament against combining to lower the price of work; but many against combining to raise it (the government often doesn't support through its legislation the creation of labor unions, only the unionizing/organizing of the rich and powerful masters). In all such disputes the masters can hold out much longer. A landlord, a farmer, a master manufacturer, or merchant, though they did not employ a single workman, could generally live a year or two upon the stocks which they have already acquired. Many workmen could not subsist a week, few could subsist a month, and scarce any a year without employment. In the long-run the workman may be as necessary to his master as his master is to him, but the necessity is not so immediate." (Wealth Of Nations), Online Source:

Adam Smith, Against the masters (1776)

​

You're a capitalist master, with your own personal and class financial interests, which according to Smith, aren't the financial interests of your mastered employees. I work all fucking day in the tyranny of the capitalist workplace, where I have no say about anything. I shut up and I work. If I try to unionize with my fellow workers, I get fired. The US government hardly protects me against my master's power to set the terms of my employment/exploitation, without much influence from me.

I am powerful in union (in "communion") with my co-workers, the other members of my class, but not alone as an individual employee. I get eaten alive by the capitalist masters and that's why they hate labor unions.

Masters love "negotiating" the terms of employment (of their exploitation) with one individual, weaker, needy worker, not with a powerful labor union. Actually, as an American worker in 2023, I unfortunately don't even know much about labor unions, because I've been brainwashed by my capitalist masters, who tell me that socioeconomic classes don't even exist. Adam Smith the father of capitalism, recognized the existence of classes, but not my capitalist-masters. They filled my head with a bunch of bullshit about how I can also become a masteri uuuuuuuuuu yeaaaahhhhhhh. I can also become a rich, lazy parasite exploiting the hard work of others. Yeah!!!!!

I can become a master, exploiting human labor too. I don't see my co-workers as allies, I see them more as my competitors. A bunch of losers actually. I have disdain for workers (I hate myself) and those who break a sweat for their masters. I'm only a temporary member of the working-class. I will be a master one day, that way I don't have to work that much, if at all. I've been brainwashed to value pleasure, pleasure, and riches, not working for a cause, serving my community with skill, professionalism and excellence.

I have no say right now on how my workplace is run, because my master runs everything through his supervisors, but it's OK. I'm going to be a master one day or at least one of my master's unelected, henchmen-managers.

It's normal not to have democracy or any say on how the workplace is run, the place where I spend most of my waking hours, six days a week. Democracy only belongs in politics, not in the place where I work ten hours daily, six days weekly. To assume that democracy should also be in the workplace is a socialist idea, and we can't do that, that's evil. The current totalitarian workplace is good, socialism bad, always bad, bad. My capitalist master = good, my democratic government, is always bad, bad. Capitalist dictatorship and bureaucracy are always = good, the government democracy = bad.

View attachment 801883
Capitalism good good, US government, socialism, bad bad....​

not even to mention starting your own business.

That way I can be a master-parasite too? How wonderful.


All your kind can do is burst due to personal envy

View attachment 801885

I don't like being exploited by a capitalist master and parasite, so I'm "envious".
​

Our values are different. I value work and skill, more than worldly riches. Living and working for something greater than myself, is my wealth. I have no desire to exploit others for a profit. I prefer to prioritize my human relationships, with family and friends, my comrades, and serve my country. That is my highest value and aspiration. To live a principled, meaningful life, not to pursue profits at the expense and exploitation of others.

How about society makes every productive enterprise (the means of production), into worker-owned, democratically run cooperatives? We don't need capitalist masters like you. You're the worthless free-loafer, not the working class, who you said was lazy and worthless. You as a lazy capitalist leech are worthless.

We the people of the working class (96% of the population = everyone who sells their labor to a capitalist or actually works for a living without being a little exploiting dictator-parasite), don't need you. You're the lazy loser, who doesn't want to work. Value is in human labor, and work, not in private capital accumulation. The power is really in the hands of labor.

View attachment 801887
​

The public sector, with its government, if run democratically, under the power of the working class, is not inherently evil, as you capitalist masters are constantly, cynically, always telling us. Your privately owned, private profit-pursuing government dictatorship, which you call a "business enterprise", is where the real evil (exploitation, authoritarianism), always is in America. It's not the US government, that is the problem, it's capitalists like you.

The publicly owned and run, democratic government of the people, created by the people, for the people, can indeed become a tyranny, but that usually happens when it begins to serve the capitalist masters at the expense of the public good. Capitalism always, without fail, resorts to cronyism. It's an endemic aspect of capitalism.

Civil government is nothing more than a social apparatus, organized by the people, to manage their large scale socioeconomic civil affairs and projects. That's it. It's not inherently good, nor is it inherently bad, it's whatever we the people, want it to be. The capitalist masters dumb down the public, through the media, their cronies in government, and their influence over us in the workplace, deluding us into thinking that they're the good guys that we should aspire to become (the highest ideal and position is to become a capitalist exploiter too, living off of other people's hard work).

The people that we elect into our democratic government are supposedly, by default, always corrupt and bad, and amount to nothing. The government can't do anything right, except of course send the rich more money:

RANK	PARENT	SUBSIDY VALUE.	NUMBER OF AWARDS
1	Boeing	$15,136,286,466	946
2	Intel	$8,371,896,017	133
3	Ford Motor	$7,761,916,195	815
4	General Motors	$7,594,509,872	990
5	Micron Technology	$6,785,681,915	18
6	Alcoa	$5,798,600,778	160
7	X-Energy LLC	$5,661,511,202	17
8	General Atomics	$5,465,529,295	438
9	Cheniere Energy	$5,431,565,870	41
10	Amazon.com	$5,191,773,349	333
11	Foxconn Technology Group (Hon Hai Precision Industry Company)	$4,827,036,483	76
12	Sempra Energy	$3,835,098,001	53
13	Southern Company	$3,783,360,569	130
14	NRG Energy	$3,586,516,301	268
15	Venture Global LNG	$3,285,883,566	6
16	NextEra Energy	$3,003,823,754	117
17	Tesla Inc.	$2,836,366,619	116
18	Sasol	$2,836,049,845	72
19	Stellantis	$2,800,442,867	230
20	Volkswagen	$2,740,983,143	222
21	General Electric	$2,529,193,561	1,668
22	Nucor	$2,514,358,340	158
23	Walt Disney	$2,421,304,588	248
24	Brookfield Asset Management	$2,339,430,278	304
25	Toyota	$2,303,826,689	199
26	Iberdrola	$2,285,768,043	112
27	Summit Power	$2,240,568,236	8
28	Shell PLC	$2,184,517,527	141
29	Oracle	$2,167,890,528	88
30	Mubadala Investment Company	$2,124,035,097	62
31	Nike	$2,104,917,829	138
32	Hyundai Motor	$2,072,957,848	27
33	SCS Energy	$1,927,236,683	10
34	Archer Daniels Midland	$1,920,305,787	1,099
35	Exxon Mobil	$1,891,153,489	207
36	NuScale Power	$1,880,780,589	34
37	Berkshire Hathaway	$1,859,775,471	1,158
38	Nissan	$1,842,814,165	87
39	Alphabet Inc.	$1,832,565,977	116
40	Paramount Global	$1,751,801,882	317
41	Apple Inc.	$1,750,043,420	36
42	Comcast	$1,722,467,426	376
43	JPMorgan Chase	$1,663,890,873	1,129
44	Cleveland-Cliffs	$1,654,401,303	137
45	Energy Transfer	$1,634,074,422	106
46	Samsung	$1,586,310,806	70
47	PG&E Corp.	$1,568,027,901	27
48	IBM Corp.	$1,562,738,626	387
49	SkyWest	$1,550,492,958	683
50	Rivian Automotive Inc.	$1,532,854,012	3
51	OGE Energy	$1,427,570,182	15
52	Panasonic	$1,385,969,341	61
53	Raytheon Technologies	$1,322,899,721	952
54	Duke Energy	$1,318,084,164	69
55	Lockheed Martin	$1,302,847,415	337
56	Corning Inc.	$1,272,628,059	395
57	Northrop Grumman	$1,266,804,354	266
58	Vingroup	$1,254,000,000	1
59	Continental AG	$1,244,875,478	111
60	Vornado Realty Trust	$1,243,857,336	32
61	Microsoft	$1,153,690,869	103
62	Jefferies Financial Group	$1,120,662,497	18
63	Meta Platforms Inc.	$1,105,098,844	53
64	Dow Inc.	$1,091,152,544	686
65	Abengoa	$1,082,660,583	63
66	SK Holdings	$1,081,550,283	9
67	LG	$1,055,690,737	103
68	Valero Energy	$1,054,520,860	199
69	Exelon	$1,040,601,369	98
70	AES Corp.	$1,010,194,632	132
71	CF Industries	$982,271,715	129
72	Pyramid Companies	$966,050,097	91
73	EDF-Electricite de France	$940,247,983	65
74	Texas Instruments	$940,071,436	60
75	Mazda Toyota Manufacturing, U.S.A., Inc.	$900,000,000	1
76	Air Products & Chemicals	$897,651,105	248
77	Delta Air Lines	$876,412,623	14
78	Centene	$875,064,432	54
79	Bayer	$849,175,809	202
80	Honda	$846,026,154	91
81	Enterprise Products Partners	$826,988,371	83
82	Shin-Etsu Chemical	$826,062,285	104
83	SunEdison	$812,753,318	119
84	Apollo Global Management	$804,565,970	471
85	Goldman Sachs	$801,573,386	255
86	E.ON	$782,609,880	38
87	Wolfspeed Inc.	$773,681,732	88
88	Triple Five Worldwide	$748,000,000	4
89	EDP-Energias de Portugal	$733,674,868	14
90	Warner Bros. Discovery Inc.	$725,632,525	206
91	Gotion	$715,000,000	1
92	American Electric Power	$699,673,821	92
93	Bank of America	$698,760,073	919
94	Johnson Controls	$691,180,720	144
95	Related Companies	$687,200,000	1
96	Caithness Energy	$670,379,738	28
97	Hyannis Air Service Inc.	$667,928,778	296
98	Koch Industries	$662,557,530	486
99	Sagamore Development	$660,000,000

​

The government is the strong-arm of the people. It's the power of the people. That's why capitalists and their brainwashed wage slaves, hate civil government so much. They drank their master's Kool-Aid and ironically vote against their own class interests. They hurt themselves in the service of their master's pursuit of profits.


- and ignoring the facts as to how companies got started in the first place.

Rich daddy, inheritance, bank loans, and several other sources of funding. How the privately owned enterprise is created that is run as a dictatorship, is irrelevant. The people that work the business should own it collectively and run it democratically. Eventually, this is the model that is going to have to be implemented due to advanced automation and artificial intelligence. Socialism is inevitable in the not-too-distant future. Those robots are amazing, haven't you seen them yet? They work 24/7.


Then you cite examples from 1855 to document capitalism in it's extreme form - ignoring again all the amendments and improvements done by entrepreneurs and company owners till today.

View attachment 801895

View attachment 801903​

All of the worker rights that we have today came through a very long struggle of the left, pushing from below, to get our government to recognize and protect them. Everything from the eight-hour work day ideal (tens of millions of Americans work more than 8 hours daily but that's the universally recognized "ideal" for fulltime work) to union labor rights, overtime pay, work-comp, the minimum wage, unemployment, social security, Medicare, Medicaid..etc. It was pushed from below with plenty of labor union strikes, protests, and struggles, to believe otherwise demonstrates your ignorance.


You know who was the fattest, most unsympathetic, most garbage talking - cigar smoking dude, with a luxury watch, in a MBB-DASA (today EADS) meeting? correct, the Union boss.
So spare me your Commie talk, and keep it to the nitwits amongst the lazy.

Oh yes the old canard that asserts ALL or MOST labor unions are corrupt and run by the Italian mafia, and unnecessary. As if the union-organizing of the wealthy ruling, capitalist class (chambers of commerce, industry associations, super-PACs, NGO-astroturf-fronts, lobbyists, think tanks..etc) are perfect and never corrupt. Does that render their efforts to organize illegitimate and unnecessary? The union that I am a member of here in the state of NY, elects its leadership every five years at the highest state level and two years for its city reps. Nice try, it didn't work. Try another polemic.
Socialism is the future, due to advanced automation and artificial intelligence. You might as well become a socialist now, and prepare for what is coming. The tech apocalypse is real:

We don't need capitalists. They're unnecessary middlemen and leeches.​

/----/ WOWZA - It took me 15 seconds to scroll through all that claptrap. Lighten up, Dude. No one is going to read War & Peace.

 

[Red Front]

But it didnt last

Communism failed to sustain itself and ultimately imploded because it could not keep up with western capitalist innovation

How long does it have to last to be of any value? Are you going to ignore all of the great accomplishments of the USSR? More, be honest if you can (I know it's hard for you), how quickly does an economic system and mode of production have to replace its predecessor, for it to be considered legitimate and effective? Capitalism took centuries to replace chattel slavery and feudalism. Why can't socialism take a few centuries to become the successor of capitalism?

Does communism have to get everything correctly from the very beginning? Can communism be defeated due to the circumstances of its previous condition, and be victorious under different conditions, in a future date? Think if you can, I know it's difficult for you, but try anyways.

The capitalist mercantile class took centuries to become the powerful industrialists of the 19th century who toppled monarchies and feudalism, with their republican, democratic politics. Despite all of the obstacles and challenges faced by the Soviets, they did pretty well. That was a good first try at establishing communism on a national scale. We learned a lot as socialists, from the USSR.

More, according to the GOP and FOX News, the American Democratic Party, are a bunch of commies. AOC and Bernie, are just a bunch of communists. You, right-wingers, shout COMMIE! when AOC asserts that healthcare is a human right and everyone in America should have Medicare. You shout COMMIE!, COMMIE!! when AOC supports labor unions. You shout COMMIE!!!!!! when progressives, assert that education should be tuition-free and considered a human right. You shout COMMIE!!!, when Democrats try to house the homeless and create government programs to help them get back on their feet. You scream, COMMIE!!! when Bernie talks about nationalizing the industries that are vital to our national infrastructure, like energy and other utilities. You shout COMMIE!!!! When progressives talk about a $15 minimum wage.

By doing that you are admitting that Western Europe, and most of the modern industrialized world, is COMMIE!!! Because they take all of these public, government services and rights for granted. That's just normal for them. But for you it's COMMMIE!! So my right-wing "friend", socialism is everywhere. The world is moving to the left now economically, more than ever. Democratic socialist parties in Germany, Spain, Portugal and in other industrialized countries, have a majority in their legislative bodies. Socialists are the majority. The USSR had a role in that, by supporting, funding socialists in all of these countries, during the Cold War, including here in the US.

So your claim that the Soviet Union accomplished nothing, is disingenuous and ridiculous. Advanced automation and artificial intelligence will in the not-too-distant future necessitate the adoption of a non-profit system of production, that is centrally planned by our democratic government in collaboration with American workers. Forming worker-owned cooperatives now will help us make the transition from for-profit, capitalist production to non-profit, socialist production, without much pain or confusion. It will be seamless and painless.

But unfortunately that pain-free process isn't going to occur, what I see is the whole system crumbling as a result of massive unemployment, and deteriorating into a war. I see America within the next 20 years, as a broken, balkanized country, comprised of separate regions and states that are no longer in union. That's what advanced automation and artificial intelligence is going to do to America, unfortunately. The situation is going to get much worse before it gets better.

 

[Cellblock2429]

How long does it have to last to be of any value? Are you going to ignore all of the great accomplishments of the USSR? More, be honest if you can (I know it's hard for you), how quickly does an economic system and mode of production have to replace its predecessor, for it to be considered legitimate and effective? Capitalism took centuries to replace chattel slavery and feudalism. Why can't socialism take a few centuries to become the successor of capitalism?

Does communism have to get everything correctly from the very beginning? Can communism be defeated due to the circumstances of its previous condition, and be victorious under different conditions, in a future date? Think if you can, I know it;s difficult, but you have to try.

The capitalist mercantile class took centuries to become the powerful industrialists of the 19th century who toppled monarchies and feudalism, with their republican, democratic politics. Despite all of the obstacles and challenges faced by the Soviets, they did pretty well. That was a good first try. We learned a lot as socialists, from the USSR.

More, according to the GOP and FOX News, the American Democratic Party, are a bunch of commies. AOC and Bernie, are just a bunch of communists. You, right-wingers, shout COMMIE! when AOC asserts that healthcare is a human right and everyone in America should have Medicare. You shout COMMIE!, COMMIE!! when AOC supports labor unions. You shout COMMIE!!!!!! when progressives, assert that education should be tuition-free and considered a human right. You shout COMMIE!!!, when Democrats try to house the homeless and create government programs to help them get back on their feet. You scream, COMMIE!!! When Bernie talks about nationalizing the industries that are vital to our national infrastructure, like energy and other utilities. You shout COMMIE!!!! When progressives talk about a $15 minimum wage.

By doing that you are admitting that Western Europe, and most of the modern industrialized world, is COMMIE!!! Because they take all of these public, government services and rights for granted. That's just normal for them. But for you it's COMMMIE!! So my right-wing "friend", socialism is everywhere. The world is moving to the left now economically, more than ever. Democratic socialist parties in Germany, Spain, Portugal and in other industrialized countries, have a majority in their legislative bodies. Socialists are the majority. The USSR had a role in that, by supporting, funding socialists in all of these countries, during the Cold War, including here in the US.

So your claim that the Soviet Union accomplished nothing, is disingenuous and ridiculous. Advanced automation and artificial intelligence will in the not-too-distant future necessitate the adoption of a non-profit system of production, that is centrally planned by our democratic government in collaboration with American workers. Forming worker-owned cooperatives now will help us make the transition from for-profit, capitalist production to non-profit, socialist production, without much pain or confusion. It will be seamless and painless.

But unfortunately that pain-free process isn't going to occur, what I see is the whole system crumbling as a result of massive unemployment, and deteriorating into a war. I see America within the next 20 years, as a broken, balkanized country, comprised of separate regions and states that are no longer in union. That's what advanced automation and artificial intelligence is going to do to America, unfortunately. The situation is going to get much worse before it gets better.

/——/ No thanks. I’ll keep my liberty. Why are folks in North Korea starving while fat boy is firing missiles into the Sea of Japan?

 

[Mac-7]

Capitalism took centuries to replace chattel slavery and feudalism.

The soviet union never did progress that far

Ronald Reagan used to tell a joke

In russia it was common for ordinary citizens to say “the government pretends to pay us and we pretend to work”

I have to say again that you are nothing if not long winded

Your posts are as long as one of Mao’s speeches that everyone was required to listen to or suffer the consequences

 

[Mexicano]

In order to create a customer network - one needs to have a production source first, either an own or a supplier. 1st things first.

My friend started a plumbing business 30 years ago - and worked off his bud in the first 15 years. The he started to employ more people, now 30 years later he employs around 12 people and has a great live.

Now folks like you will come and talk about customer network and how he supposedly exploits his "poor" employees and workers.

Don't put any words in my mouth. I made a very clear and concise statement
"No, not really, getting wealthy is about creating a customer network with a constant stream of revenue. It is not hard work that makes people rich, but their ability to create a team that can help them create and expand such a network. "

Where does the above paragraph say "he supposedly exploits his poor employees and workers"?
You are either replying to the wrong post or jumping to your own conclusions after skimming through an answer.

Another friend of mine started his car repair/maintenance-shop business 35 years ago- worked off his bud for 20 years, with me helping him financially and in regards to creating a customer base, when he ran into financial difficulties after 5 years - today his company is Germany's largest or 2nd largest supplier in that field. There is a lot more to creating, starting and keep running an own business - then what you seem to believe.

This just confirms you need to build up a team and a network of customers.
There are a number of hard and stressful jobs: medical doctor, miner, high rise construction worker. These may or may not give you a high standard of living depending on where you live. But hard work does not equal income.
A tik-toker may build a large base of fans and then open an only fans page and become a millionaire. Was that hard work? No, not really. But he/she did employ his/her skills to build a customer network and a mechanism to obtain a constant revenue from them.

The exponential wealth distribution present in society is a byproduct of a network effect. This is a phenomenon you can observe also in nature: from the magnitude of earthquakes to the size of stars and the number of connections in brains.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

How long does it have to last to be of any value? Are you going to ignore all of the great accomplishments of the USSR? More, be honest if you can (I know it's hard for you), how quickly does an economic system and mode of production have to replace its predecessor, for it to be considered legitimate and effective? Capitalism took centuries to replace chattel slavery and feudalism. Why can't socialism take a few centuries to become the successor of capitalism?

Does communism have to get everything correctly from the very beginning? Can communism be defeated due to the circumstances of its previous condition, and be victorious under different conditions, in a future date? Think if you can, I know it's difficult for you, but try anyways.

The capitalist mercantile class took centuries to become the powerful industrialists of the 19th century who toppled monarchies and feudalism, with their republican, democratic politics. Despite all of the obstacles and challenges faced by the Soviets, they did pretty well. That was a good first try at establishing communism on a national scale. We learned a lot as socialists, from the USSR.

More, according to the GOP and FOX News, the American Democratic Party, are a bunch of commies. AOC and Bernie, are just a bunch of communists. You, right-wingers, shout COMMIE! when AOC asserts that healthcare is a human right and everyone in America should have Medicare. You shout COMMIE!, COMMIE!! when AOC supports labor unions. You shout COMMIE!!!!!! when progressives, assert that education should be tuition-free and considered a human right. You shout COMMIE!!!, when Democrats try to house the homeless and create government programs to help them get back on their feet. You scream, COMMIE!!! when Bernie talks about nationalizing the industries that are vital to our national infrastructure, like energy and other utilities. You shout COMMIE!!!! When progressives talk about a $15 minimum wage.

By doing that you are admitting that Western Europe, and most of the modern industrialized world, is COMMIE!!! Because they take all of these public, government services and rights for granted. That's just normal for them. But for you it's COMMMIE!! So my right-wing "friend", socialism is everywhere. The world is moving to the left now economically, more than ever. Democratic socialist parties in Germany, Spain, Portugal and in other industrialized countries, have a majority in their legislative bodies. Socialists are the majority. The USSR had a role in that, by supporting, funding socialists in all of these countries, during the Cold War, including here in the US.

So your claim that the Soviet Union accomplished nothing, is disingenuous and ridiculous. Advanced automation and artificial intelligence will in the not-too-distant future necessitate the adoption of a non-profit system of production, that is centrally planned by our democratic government in collaboration with American workers. Forming worker-owned cooperatives now will help us make the transition from for-profit, capitalist production to non-profit, socialist production, without much pain or confusion. It will be seamless and painless.

But unfortunately that pain-free process isn't going to occur, what I see is the whole system crumbling as a result of massive unemployment, and deteriorating into a war. I see America within the next 20 years, as a broken, balkanized country, comprised of separate regions and states that are no longer in union. That's what advanced automation and artificial intelligence is going to do to America, unfortunately. The situation is going to get much worse before it gets better.

How long does it have to last to be of any value? Are you going to ignore all of the great accomplishments of the USSR?

Besides killing more Russians than Germany?

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Most of what Western academics say about Stalin is bullshit.

The Ivory Tower Is a Dungeon

Academics invented Marxist tyranny, so you're really off-base. They are the ones who told their mind-raped students that criticism of their Communist utopia was from media hired by the Capitalists to tell lies about it.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

/---/ Quick - swim to Cuba, where capitalists are shot at sunrise. You'll be at home chopping sugar cane in 110 degree blazing heat.

Same Class, Same Tyranny

Just like Cuban peons were under the Capitalism that richkid Castro told them he had replaced.

 

[Red Front]

How long does it have to last to be of any value? Are you going to ignore all of the great accomplishments of the USSR?

Besides killing more Russians than Germany?

That's only the case in your confused, deluded mind.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Most, not all. He did order the murder of his opponents like Trotsky and he also send thousands to the gulags.
What's next portraying Pol-Pot as an extraordinary leader?

Stalin and Pol Pot were completely different. You admit that most of the rhetoric against Stalin is bullshit, then you spew one of the most twisted comparisons you could've made. Stalin was indeed an extraordinary leader.

One thing is to defend communal property and means of production, defending absolute dictators is a completely different matter. Seldom is the case that a dictator behaves in a decent manner.

Stalin wasn't an absolute dictator. The record shows that he was chosen by the party to lead the USSR, and there are many documents showing how he was often challenged ideologically, and otherwise, and those people who did it without conspiring to eliminate him or start a coup weren't arrested or killed. Disagreeing with Stalin and debating with him on his policies, wasn't considered an act of treason. Conspiring to kill him was.

You Are a Dummy. The Ministry of Truth Is Your Ventriloquist.

 

[Red Front]

The soviet union never did progress that far

Ronald Reagan used to tell a joke

In russia it was common for ordinary citizens to say “the government pretends to pay us and we pretend to work”

I have to say again that you are nothing if not long winded

Your posts are as long as one of Mao’s speeches that everyone was required to listen to or suffer the consequences

They just became a world superpower, with the second-largest economy in the world.

 

[Mac-7]

They just became a world superpower, with the second-largest economy in the world.

Thats past tense

The Soviet Union failed as a superpower

Its now in the scrapyard of history where it deserves to be

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

YOU certainly can't educate me in that regard - since YOU obviously never worked in your entire life, not even to mention starting your own business.

All your kind can do is burst due to personal envy - and ignoring the facts as to how companies got started in the first place. Then you cite examples from 1855 to document capitalism in it's extreme form - ignoring again all the amendments and improvements done by entrepreneurs and company owners till today.

You know who was the fattest, most unsympathetic, most garbage talking - cigar smoking dude, with a luxury watch, in a MBB-DASA (today EADS) meeting? correct, the Union boss.
So spare me your Commie talk, and keep it to the nitwits amongst the lazy.

Two Wings of the Same Vulture, the Palace Bird

Both the Left and the Right come from the same class and are mortal enemies of those who weren't born rich. The common people built America; both your sides and the rest of the imaginary spectrum are all out to replace us. Everybody should do it on his own and get no benefit whatsoever out of his Daddy's Money.

 

[Red Front]

Thats past tense

The Soviet Union failed as a superpower

Its now in the scrapyard of history where it deserves to be

They failed due to the many obstacles and challenges that they faced, but it was still an impressive run and they did make several accomplishments to socialism, science..etc. The fact that the USSR lost, doesn't imply that socialism or communism is forever defined by that loss. You want that to be the case, but that's irrational for the reasons I described earlier, which you conveniently ignore.

 

[Mac-7]

They failed due to the many obstacles and challenges that they faced, but it was still an impressive run and they did make several accomplishments to socialism, science..etc. The fact that the USSR lost, doesn't imply that socialism or communism is forever defined by that loss. You want that to be the case, but that's irrational for the reasons I described earlier, which you conveniently ignore.

Communism is not doing any better in china