What is the proper method of dealing with crowd control ...

[strollingbones]

i dont ..as long as it does not obstruct the daily use by others

 

[Ravi]

I never said he thought he was I said it was a potentiality, but of course you know exactly what he was thinking....... And everyone reacts the exact same way as everyone else to every and all circumstances........ right?

No everyone doesn't react the same. And that cop reacted badly. Very badly. He should be fired, imo.

If indeed it is proven that this is the case then yes, he should be disciplined. Thank you for acknowledging it was your opinion, not factual evidence presented in a court of law..........

Almost everything typed here is an opinion....

 

[BDBoop]

so what about the bold claims that the sitting protestors were denying other students their rights to enter the class rooms?

Or that sitting on the ground is a law breaking offense?

They have a constitutional right to peaceably assemble. Nobody has the right to deny them that right, nor treat them like hardened criminals for using it.

This world is upside down. It's like Through the Looking Glass. Westboro Baptist Church and all their disgusting signs - they have that right. Kids sitting on steps? Not so much.

And those who defend the indefensible need to take an hour alone in your conscience and ask when you wandered off the path of sanity.

 

[Sky Dancer]

i dont ..as long as it does not obstruct the daily use by others

Then you must object to anti-abortion protestors blocking the access to Planned Parenthood clinics.

 

[Sky Dancer]

We live in a world ruled not by Orwell’s Big Brother, but by the forces of “free markets,” a euphemism right out of 1984’s Ministry of Truth, a misnomer in a sea of big lies pushed by the corporate state. For it is not a world of genuinely free markets described by Adam Smith that today’s corporate capitalists have imposed on the world. It is the antithesis. It is a system of concentrated power, carefully crafted to enrich the privileged few beyond comprehension, at everyone else’s expense.

There are no truly free markets. There is only monopoly. It oozes out of every dimension of society. From the two political parties, both of which belong to Wall Street, to the six corporations which control the mass media, to the few insurance conglomerates that conspire to kill 45,000 Americans and bankrupt a million others every year while they fatten their pockets, to the handful of oil corporations that dictate imperial policies, and ultimately to the dozen or so banks that control over 60% of the nation’s GDP.

There is no escaping. Nowhere to hide. No time to waste. The only thing to do is defy. Resist. That’s the real meaning of Occupy Wall Street.

A former trader of Treasuries on Wall Street who requested anonymity came to talk candidly about how deeply corrupt and fraudulent the system he once served truly is. As he puts it, “Wall Street is rife with toll collection, zero-sum gaming, and organized crime.” They contribute nothing to society, as “securities firms make the most precisely when they do the least,” extracting huge payoffs for meaningless transactions that can be made only through these firms. Furthermore, the obscenely lucrative salaries divert the country’s talent away from other occupations, luring top graduates to business schools and companies like Goldman Sachs, which “ultimately hurts our nation.”

When he quit his job of twelve years he approached the SEC in the hopes of correcting the wrongs he had witnessed. He had expected to approach an audience eager to hear his tales of wrongdoing and systematized rape. What he found shocked him. Nobody cared. He couldn’t get anyone to listen. They were all too busy preparing for the jobs they would attain on Wall Street after they finished serving the public.
The Real Meaning of Occupy Wall Street - The Bloody Cross Roads - The Bloody Cross Roads

 

[Ringel05]

No everyone doesn't react the same. And that cop reacted badly. Very badly. He should be fired, imo.

If indeed it is proven that this is the case then yes, he should be disciplined. Thank you for acknowledging it was your opinion, not factual evidence presented in a court of law..........

Almost everything typed here is an opinion....

Too bad some people seem to have difficulty making that clear........ Go figure.

 

[Immanuel]

pepper spray is the lowest and safest form of force to use against resistance...there is an almost universal and instant compliance rate

did you want the officers to go hands on and fight the kids ?

night sticks ?

no I think what you really want is them just to able to break the law

thusly the death of free expression

Your last statement there doesn't make any sense. The death of free expression comes at the hands of those in authority. It was the police that were ending free expression not those who were protesting.


Immie

the historical progession of wanton law breaking at protests drives the police response

i know you dont like it but in a orderly and lawful society we all have to obey the laws

the police just cant turn their back to law breaking and arrest resistance

Good point and I am not asking them to "turn their back to law breaking and arrest resistance". What I am saying is that from what I have seen and read, it seems that they used more force than was necessary.

Immie

 

[Sky Dancer]

What Occupy Wall Street Stands For

To understand the Occupy Wall Street movement, it is helpful to understand that it is the antithesis of the Tea Party movement, though for now, much smaller in scale. Occupy Wall Street protesters are, like the Tea Party protesters, disenchanted at the state of the economy, and impatient for solutions. But unlike their compatriots on the Right, their animus is directed at corporate America (Wall Street), not at government (Washington, DC).

Why is Occupy Wall Street more disorganized and rowdy, lacking a message as coherent as the Tea Party's? Because the American Left has always been a messy, rowdy bunch. Pluralism is inclusive, but it suffers also from having too many voices under the same tent.

Yet one thing is clear, while Occupy Wall Street protesters are calling for government reform, they still believe in government. Indeed, they want a government that will stand up to the corporations. And this is why leaders on the Right, such as Newt Gingrich and Eric Cantor, are calling the protests a form of "class warfare" and are wary of the "mob." (Incidentally, this frame of chaos and disorder, if it spreads, is only going to push independents in Iowa and Florida toward Mitt Romney, assuming NH is in the bag.)


People go to the streets when institutions fail. There is a sense that American governmental institutions are no longer up to the task of delivering on the American Dream. The separation of powers, the Senate filibuster, government by committee (and super-committee), the permanent campaign, and bickering political parties may be democracy in action, but it no longer appears to be governance in action. What the Tea Party Movement, and Occupy War Street, jointly, call for, is an overall appraisal and re-synthesis of all these moving parts, so that faith in our institutions may be restored. The politicians can begin by starting to agree on something, for there is a lot more anger from where either movement came from.
Out on a Lim: What Occupy Wall Street Stands For

 

[Foxfyre]

In my opinion, if the crowd is gathering peacefully and lawfully meaning they acquired proper permissions, permits, etc., as necessary, you do nothing. They have a constitutional right to assemble for any peaceful purpose no matter how repugnant or not we consider their agenda to be.

Also in my opinion, if the crowd is occupying public or private property unlawfully, is disorderly, is damaging property or infringing on the rights of any persons, the property owner should tell them to leave. If they do not, the police should be called and the police should tell them to leave. If they refuse to obey the lawful civil authority, then in my opinion the police are justified to use any means NECESSARY to enforce a lawful order and enforce the law. We are either a people of laws or we are not. When we are not, we might as well hang it up because nobody's rights will be secured ever again.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Your last statement there doesn't make any sense. The death of free expression comes at the hands of those in authority. It was the police that were ending free expression not those who were protesting.


Immie

the historical progession of wanton law breaking at protests drives the police response

i know you dont like it but in a orderly and lawful society we all have to obey the laws

the police just cant turn their back to law breaking and arrest resistance

Good point and I am not asking them to "turn their back to law breaking and arrest resistance". What I am saying is that from what I have seen and read, it seems that they used more force than was necessary.

Immie

They used more force than was necessary. The animosity toward the OWS protestors is more than is necessary. These kids are facing 50% unemployment for their age group. No wonder they're angry. A lot of good their expensive college educations are getting them.

We have a right to assemble and protest. I think some people forget what it was like to be young and idealistic. It's my birthday and I'm thinking back to when I took to the streets to protest the war in Vietnam, and segregation. I remember Vietnam War protestors were hated too. Probably, by alot of the same people who hate the OWS protestors.

The massive moratorium protests of October 1969, encouraged the Nixon administration to postpone plans for an all-out military offensive against Hanoi.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Brandon Watts, aged 20 — remains charged with felony grand larceny for swiping the hat off a cop’s head during a spat with police at 1 Liberty Plaza
Read more: OWS bails out Brandon Watts, protester accused of swiping NYPD officer's hat - NY Daily News

Expensive hat.

Nkrumah Tinsley, 29, was arrested for threatening to hurl Molotov cocktails at Macy’s and burn the city down. Tinsley’s parents have admitted their son has mental health problems.
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ows...pd-officer-hat-article-1.982153#ixzz1eecAkjdE

Yet, Fox News paints all protestors, all those with left leaning politics as the same. Propaganda.

The 84 year old woman who got pepper sprayed is a real lawless radical and threat to democracy, LOL. Yeah, OWS protestors are all alike.

 

[Sky Dancer]

A few weeks ago, a group of elderly African-American tenants came to SAJE for help because they had been living without electricity, heat, or water for over a month in one of South Los Angeles’ many slums. Their building was infested with vermin; they had suffered rat bites, bed-bug bites, and the indignity of living without running water. Now they were in danger of being homeless.

Despite their seemingly hopeless situation, the tenants of this building organized. Together they confronted the slumlord who owned their building, applying pressure on him and on the city; they demanded and ultimately won relocation assistance. Due to their organizing efforts they will now have enough money to find new places to live, homes without rats and with running water and electricity. They won the basic right of a healthy, secure residence – a right many of us take for granted, and one withheld from thousands of Los Angeles’ poorest and most vulnerable residents.

Spurred by their victory, these tenants have now joined forces with other residents of South Los Angeles, mostly immigrant families, who are organizing in support of the thousands who are losing their rented homes to foreclosure. These are the bottom 10% of the 99%, people living in poverty – and they’re the first to suffer the consequences of so-called “austerity measures.”
http://narconews.com/Issue67/article4531.html

 

[Rozman]

I believe these protestors are getting their direction from some
lefty group and being given instructions on how far to push the envelope.
Look how quickly that guy who was boasting about burning NYC to the ground
and firebombing Macy's got bailed out of jail for example.
This is more then some people getting together and winging it.

 

[Douger]

Meathead krowd kontrol systems.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPO8-5Q3OYI&feature=related]California Capitol Airshow: Simulated Napalm Drop - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Immanuel]

What Occupy Wall Street Stands For

To understand the Occupy Wall Street movement, it is helpful to understand that it is the antithesis of the Tea Party movement, though for now, much smaller in scale. Occupy Wall Street protesters are, like the Tea Party protesters, disenchanted at the state of the economy, and impatient for solutions. But unlike their compatriots on the Right, their animus is directed at corporate America (Wall Street), not at government (Washington, DC).

Why is Occupy Wall Street more disorganized and rowdy, lacking a message as coherent as the Tea Party's? Because the American Left has always been a messy, rowdy bunch. Pluralism is inclusive, but it suffers also from having too many voices under the same tent.

Yet one thing is clear, while Occupy Wall Street protesters are calling for government reform, they still believe in government. Indeed, they want a government that will stand up to the corporations. And this is why leaders on the Right, such as Newt Gingrich and Eric Cantor, are calling the protests a form of "class warfare" and are wary of the "mob." (Incidentally, this frame of chaos and disorder, if it spreads, is only going to push independents in Iowa and Florida toward Mitt Romney, assuming NH is in the bag.)


People go to the streets when institutions fail. There is a sense that American governmental institutions are no longer up to the task of delivering on the American Dream. The separation of powers, the Senate filibuster, government by committee (and super-committee), the permanent campaign, and bickering political parties may be democracy in action, but it no longer appears to be governance in action. What the Tea Party Movement, and Occupy War Street, jointly, call for, is an overall appraisal and re-synthesis of all these moving parts, so that faith in our institutions may be restored. The politicians can begin by starting to agree on something, for there is a lot more anger from where either movement came from.
Out on a Lim: What Occupy Wall Street Stands For

The basis of what they seem to want is not an end to government because that would mean the end of the wealth redistribution that they desire so emphatically. What they seem to want is to end our economic basis in its entirety. They want to destroy the economy that literally feeds them. What they fail to realize is that if they got what they want they would actually lose everything they have. They don't seem to realize the consequences of what they demand.

Immie

 

[Sky Dancer]

What Occupy Wall Street Stands For

To understand the Occupy Wall Street movement, it is helpful to understand that it is the antithesis of the Tea Party movement, though for now, much smaller in scale. Occupy Wall Street protesters are, like the Tea Party protesters, disenchanted at the state of the economy, and impatient for solutions. But unlike their compatriots on the Right, their animus is directed at corporate America (Wall Street), not at government (Washington, DC).

Why is Occupy Wall Street more disorganized and rowdy, lacking a message as coherent as the Tea Party's? Because the American Left has always been a messy, rowdy bunch. Pluralism is inclusive, but it suffers also from having too many voices under the same tent.

Yet one thing is clear, while Occupy Wall Street protesters are calling for government reform, they still believe in government. Indeed, they want a government that will stand up to the corporations. And this is why leaders on the Right, such as Newt Gingrich and Eric Cantor, are calling the protests a form of "class warfare" and are wary of the "mob." (Incidentally, this frame of chaos and disorder, if it spreads, is only going to push independents in Iowa and Florida toward Mitt Romney, assuming NH is in the bag.)


People go to the streets when institutions fail. There is a sense that American governmental institutions are no longer up to the task of delivering on the American Dream. The separation of powers, the Senate filibuster, government by committee (and super-committee), the permanent campaign, and bickering political parties may be democracy in action, but it no longer appears to be governance in action. What the Tea Party Movement, and Occupy War Street, jointly, call for, is an overall appraisal and re-synthesis of all these moving parts, so that faith in our institutions may be restored. The politicians can begin by starting to agree on something, for there is a lot more anger from where either movement came from.
Out on a Lim: What Occupy Wall Street Stands For

The basis of what they seem to want is not an end to government because that would mean the end of the wealth redistribution that they desire so emphatically. What they seem to want is to end our economic basis in its entirety. They want to destroy the economy that literally feeds them. What they fail to realize is that if they got what they want they would actually lose everything they have. They don't seem to realize the consequences of what they demand.

Immie

I don't agree with your view of what OWS wants, but I acknowledge it's how you see them.

 

[Sky Dancer]

I believe these protestors are getting their direction from some
lefty group and being given instructions on how far to push the envelope.
Look how quickly that guy who was boasting about burning NYC to the ground
and firebombing Macy's got bailed out of jail for example.
This is more then some people getting together and winging it.

It's people getting together and winging it. If it were more organized they would have a central concern.

Nonetheless, there are always opportunists who come along.

 

[Amelia]

Yet one thing is clear, while Occupy Wall Street protesters are calling for government reform, they still believe in government.

The right believes in government, for things like enforcing laws so that people have the security they need to pursue the American Dream.

OWS is blatantly breaking laws.

The Tea Party spread their message legally ... and safely. OWS jumped straight to health hazard status.

Getting a reaction from police seems to be an integral part of their plan.

 

[The Infidel]

Your last statement there doesn't make any sense. The death of free expression comes at the hands of those in authority. It was the police that were ending free expression not those who were protesting.


Immie

the historical progession of wanton law breaking at protests drives the police response

i know you dont like it but in a orderly and lawful society we all have to obey the laws

the police just cant turn their back to law breaking and arrest resistance

Good point and I am not asking them to "turn their back to law breaking and arrest resistance". What I am saying is that from what I have seen and read, it seems that they used more force than was necessary.

Immie

This is by design.

You are going to see & read exactly what the MSM wants you to.

They certainly are not going to show you the times when law enforcement using extreme patience in dealing with these losers.

That does'nt make for interesting news.

Im sorry if I am pointing out the obvious... just had to add my .02

 

[SAT2]

We live in a world ruled not by Orwell’s Big Brother, but by the forces of “free markets,” a euphemism right out of 1984’s Ministry of Truth, a misnomer in a sea of big lies pushed by the corporate state. For it is not a world of genuinely free markets described by Adam Smith that today’s corporate capitalists have imposed on the world. It is the antithesis. It is a system of concentrated power, carefully crafted to enrich the privileged few beyond comprehension, at everyone else’s expense.

There are no truly free markets. There is only monopoly. It oozes out of every dimension of society. From the two political parties, both of which belong to Wall Street, to the six corporations which control the mass media, to the few insurance conglomerates that conspire to kill 45,000 Americans and bankrupt a million others every year while they fatten their pockets, to the handful of oil corporations that dictate imperial policies, and ultimately to the dozen or so banks that control over 60% of the nation’s GDP.

There is no escaping. Nowhere to hide. No time to waste. The only thing to do is defy. Resist. That’s the real meaning of Occupy Wall Street.

A former trader of Treasuries on Wall Street who requested anonymity came to talk candidly about how deeply corrupt and fraudulent the system he once served truly is. As he puts it, “Wall Street is rife with toll collection, zero-sum gaming, and organized crime.” They contribute nothing to society, as “securities firms make the most precisely when they do the least,” extracting huge payoffs for meaningless transactions that can be made only through these firms. Furthermore, the obscenely lucrative salaries divert the country’s talent away from other occupations, luring top graduates to business schools and companies like Goldman Sachs, which “ultimately hurts our nation.”

When he quit his job of twelve years he approached the SEC in the hopes of correcting the wrongs he had witnessed. He had expected to approach an audience eager to hear his tales of wrongdoing and systematized rape. What he found shocked him. Nobody cared. He couldn’t get anyone to listen. They were all too busy preparing for the jobs they would attain on Wall Street after they finished serving the public.
The Real Meaning of Occupy Wall Street - The Bloody Cross Roads - The Bloody Cross Roads

Absolute fact. Excellent.