What Is The Republican Alternative To ObamaCare

[bigrebnc1775]

The reactionaries are running around that Americans dislike them more than they disapprove of BHO.

We are not going back to before ACA, folks.

And why not?

Because Obama apologists like Jake have too much invested in O to allow the ACA to be rolled back.

If it's a failure wouldn't it be best to scrap it? No matter how bad they stomp their feet and threaten to hold their breath?

 

[bendog]

The gop's plan: I got mine Jack, get your own or eat shite and die.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I don't understand why the party of "fiscal responsibility" isn't proposing Single Payer...

July 2013: Economist Gerald Friedman, Ph.D., University of Massachusetts, Amherst

“Under the single-payer system created by HR 676 [the Expanded and Improved Medicare for All Act, introduced by Rep. John Conyers Jr., D-Mich.], the U.S. could save an estimated $592 billion annually by slashing the administrative waste associated with the private insurance industry ($476 billion) and reducing pharmaceutical prices to European levels ($116 billion). In 2014, the savings would be enough to cover all 44 million uninsured and upgrade benefits for everyone else.

“Specifically, the savings from a single-payer plan would be more than enough to fund $343 billion in improvements to the health system such as expanded coverage, improved benefits, enhanced reimbursement of providers serving indigent patients, and the elimination of co-payments and deductibles in 2014.

Single Payer System Cost? | Physicians for a National Health Program

single payer would be worse than obamacare mandate fuck you.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

And who is pushing it?

Does anyone really believe that the Republicans want to help Americans get good health insurance?

Yes, and they have said it for years--but you and all your liberal friends never listened.

1. Insurance companies being able to cross state lines--bringing in more competition, thereby lowering premiums.
2 . Small business being able to group together to get the same lower rates as large corporations get, thereby making it affordable to cover employees that work for small business.
3. Tort reform

Sure sounds a hell of a lot better than what's going on today--doesn't it--

Your honor, I present to you Exhibit A
Someone answers his post; and MarcATL runs and hides as he does in all of his threads.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

The gop's plan: I got mine Jack, get your own or eat shite and die.

There is medicare. so you eat shit.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

[MENTION=637]Bern80[/MENTION]

How are we going in reverse. You were right earlier. This is really about whether health care is a right. The fact is it is not. It is not possible for health care to be a right because it requires theft from others to accomplish.

A right is what society agrees it is. Rights are human constructs. Rights do not exist in the wilds of nature

That has been debated by minds greater than either of ours for centuries. It certainly can not be taken as a statement of fact. Assuming you're right for argument's sake however that means your assertion that you have the right to obligate me to your well being is nor more valid than my contention that you don't. It's merely a matter of how many people you can get to agree with you.

That is how democratic republics and representative republics in democracies, operate.

The obvious which appears to have escaped you is the given -- the underlying assumption that we both agreed it was all a matter of what kind of a society we each wanted to live in.

Even the founding fathers and framers debated what obligations future generations had to their words and ideas. Madison wrote that people should NOT look to what the framers meant and thought words meant in the US Constitution, but to look to what those who ratified it thought. After all it is they -- the people of the US as a national body, who gave power and validity to the concept and realization of a constitution to guide us. The framers did NOT have the say on the power/legality of what did and did not become law. They put it to 'the people' for an up or down vote. The people ratified the US Constitution. Not federal officials and not state legislatures -- the people.

 

[TemplarKormac]

You can read the Constitution until you go blind, quote the Founding Fathers until you are hoarse, but the bottom line is that this country is at the bottom, relatively speaking considering that we are still the most powerful country in the world, when it comes to health care. Period, end of story:

The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems

Rank Country

1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America

The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems

Out of 190 countries. Top third? Not bad.

 

[bripat9643]

only an idiot would laugh when it's over and done and think it's not.

That's a no brainer...a handful of shit is an alternative to Obabble care...the man is the equivalent of a fart in a tornado.

Hold that thought and let's see if that's what the outcome will be in 9-12 months. I say heads are going to roll in the WH and they will rein this problem in.

Reverting back to what I went through with my late spouse, which is very common with people who have what is considered excellent insurance through an Ivy League institution, is not an option.

In our situation and in millions of others (which is why Michael Moore made "Sicko"), it takes two people to get seriously ill:

One to actually get sick,

and the other to do nothing but fight with the insurance company for every fucking claim, getting claims kicked back because of the wrong billing code used by the doc/hospital, and being told by the fucking insurance company that they don't cover THAT drug....they want your doc to describe THIS drug.

...that is NOT AN OPTION.

More horseshit. I recently incurred a $40,000 bill from the hospital. The insurance company paid the whole thing, minus my deductible, without a complaint. You see, my doctor has people on his staff who specialize in processing insurance claims and making sure they get paid.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

BWHAHAHAHAHA......we have a thread where the leftist debate team..is..hmmmf...DANTE AND MARCATL....

 

[Seawytch]

I don't understand why the party of "fiscal responsibility" isn't proposing Single Payer...

July 2013: Economist Gerald Friedman, Ph.D., University of Massachusetts, Amherst

“Under the single-payer system created by HR 676 [the Expanded and Improved Medicare for All Act, introduced by Rep. John Conyers Jr., D-Mich.], the U.S. could save an estimated $592 billion annually by slashing the administrative waste associated with the private insurance industry ($476 billion) and reducing pharmaceutical prices to European levels ($116 billion). In 2014, the savings would be enough to cover all 44 million uninsured and upgrade benefits for everyone else.

“Specifically, the savings from a single-payer plan would be more than enough to fund $343 billion in improvements to the health system such as expanded coverage, improved benefits, enhanced reimbursement of providers serving indigent patients, and the elimination of co-payments and deductibles in 2014.

Single Payer System Cost? | Physicians for a National Health Program

single payer would be worse than obamacare mandate fuck you.

How? How would simply taking insurance companies out of the equation be worse than insurance companies in the mix? Not that insurance companies would have to go out of business...supplement plans are popular.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

How are we going in reverse. You were right earlier. This is really about whether health care is a right. The fact is it is not. It is not possible for health care to be a right because it requires theft from others to accomplish.

A right is what society agrees it is. Rights are human constructs. Rights do not exist in the wilds of nature

Utter horseshit. According to your theory, there was nothing immoral about slavery because society defined black people as property with no rights. Also, gays have no right to marry, so why are all you libturds always whining about it? Gays have all the rights society has decided they are entitled to.

Whenever some goose-stepper says rights are whatever society says, they are trying to justify violating one or more of them.

Your theory is one of the fundamental axioms of fascism.

Slavery: actually it was not immoral in most societies or in early America. In America and most of western society the concept of slavery became immoral as society expanded it's views on inclusiveness and more.

Gays and other minorities (women included) have rights because American society expanded it's concept of who was a citizen and who was equal as a human being.


Fascism is attractive to people like you. To liberals like me, it is abhorrent. It is why the ACLU defends the rights of the likes of the KKK and a Rush Limbaugh

 

[Amelia]

And why not?

Because Obama apologists like Jake have too much invested in O to allow the ACA to be rolled back.

If it's a failure wouldn't it be best to scrap it? No matter how bad they stomp their feet and threaten to hold their breath?

Can't do it. Dems are winning the PR fight thanks to "legitimate rape" and "a baby from rape is a gift from God" Republicans, and having won the PR fight they have veto power. What do the majority gain from admitting they're wrong? Some gain kudos in their districts but the majority lose the PR battle if they admit to all the lying they did. So even if we could peel off enough Dems to pass the legislation, we couldn't override a veto. And Harry Reid wouldn't let it get that far to begin with.

If we get the White House back in 2016 in some ways that makes it a new game. But untold damage will be done before then so there's no telling what we will face.

Of course there's a good chance we won't get the White House back considering how full our party still is of people who think it's a good idea to propose anti-abortion legislation they know would get thrown out in the courts if it even passed.

Economic responsibility has taken backseat to the culture wars on both sides.

 

[bripat9643]

You can read the Constitution until you go blind, quote the Founding Fathers until you are hoarse, but the bottom line is that this country is at the bottom, relatively speaking considering that we are still the most powerful country in the world, when it comes to health care. Period, end of story:

The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems

Rank Country

37 United States of America

The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems

Why should anyone accept the WHO's opinion?

A socialist U.N. agency rates heathcare systems according to how socialist they are, and the United States doesn't do very well.

Big surprise there.

 

[TemplarKormac]

I don't understand why the party of "fiscal responsibility" isn't proposing Single Payer...



Single Payer System Cost? | Physicians for a National Health Program

single payer would be worse than obamacare mandate fuck you.

How? How would simply taking insurance companies out of the equation be worse than insurance companies in the mix? Not that insurance companies would have to go out of business...supplement plans are popular.

It does no good if the insurance company happens to be your government.

 

[Seawytch]

You can read the Constitution until you go blind, quote the Founding Fathers until you are hoarse, but the bottom line is that this country is at the bottom, relatively speaking considering that we are still the most powerful country in the world, when it comes to health care. Period, end of story:

The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems

Rank Country

1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America

The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems

Out of 190 countries. Top third? Not bad.

For one of the top ten wealthiest nation's it's crap. What if that was our military's rating instead?

 

[Redfish]

I don't understand why the party of "fiscal responsibility" isn't proposing Single Payer...

July 2013: Economist Gerald Friedman, Ph.D., University of Massachusetts, Amherst

“Under the single-payer system created by HR 676 [the Expanded and Improved Medicare for All Act, introduced by Rep. John Conyers Jr., D-Mich.], the U.S. could save an estimated $592 billion annually by slashing the administrative waste associated with the private insurance industry ($476 billion) and reducing pharmaceutical prices to European levels ($116 billion). In 2014, the savings would be enough to cover all 44 million uninsured and upgrade benefits for everyone else.

“Specifically, the savings from a single-payer plan would be more than enough to fund $343 billion in improvements to the health system such as expanded coverage, improved benefits, enhanced reimbursement of providers serving indigent patients, and the elimination of co-payments and deductibles in 2014.

Single Payer System Cost? | Physicians for a National Health Program

because the "party of fiscal responsibility" knows that single payer medical care would not be "fiscally responsible"

Socialistic policies and programs are never fiscally responsible.

 

[bripat9643]

You can read the Constitution until you go blind, quote the Founding Fathers until you are hoarse, but the bottom line is that this country is at the bottom, relatively speaking considering that we are still the most powerful country in the world, when it comes to health care. Period, end of story:

The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems

Rank Country

1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America

The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems

Yes and your point? obamacare has already shown it's not going to make us number 1 when it comes to healthcare.
We are number 1 in buying pills also.
number 1 in doctor visits
number 1 in leading the world in new medical procedures

We are also #1 in survival rates for all types of cancer, as well as heart disease and other illnesses. That's the true measure of a healthcare system.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

How are we going in reverse. You were right earlier. This is really about whether health care is a right. The fact is it is not. It is not possible for health care to be a right because it requires theft from others to accomplish.

A right is what society agrees it is. Rights are human constructs. Rights do not exist in the wilds of nature

It's not an inalienable right, which is the kind government is limited to protecting. Health care can, if we so choose, be a service government provides. But it makes no logical sense to classify it alongside political rights like freedom of speech, association, etc... Doing so is demagoguery, attempting to trojan it in as a de facto responsibility of government - since there is already widespread agreement that government is supposed to 'protect our rights'. It's just more Orwellian word games to obfuscate an agenda.

The government ( and society) has NEVER been limited to your narrow opinion of what constitutes a right, inalienable or not.

 

[Seawytch]

single payer would be worse than obamacare mandate fuck you.

How? How would simply taking insurance companies out of the equation be worse than insurance companies in the mix? Not that insurance companies would have to go out of business...supplement plans are popular.

It does no good if the insurance company happens to be your government.

Tell that to Medicare patients.

 

[bendog]

The gop's plan: I got mine Jack, get your own or eat shite and die.

There is medicare. so you eat shit.

Eat me.