What Is The Republican Alternative To ObamaCare

[MarcATL]

And we still will be under Obamacare.

At much, much, much lower rates AND the majority of the American People will be covered by GOOD health care plans.

What seems to be the problem?

The problem? The 5 million people not being covered by GOOD health care plans. The 5 million people who may be forced to purchase WORSE health care plans at much, much higher rates.

Radical, do you have any links to substantiate that BOGUS claim that those plans were good?

If so, please post 'em as soon as possible.

Thanks.

At much, much, much lower rates AND the majority of the American People will be covered by GOOD health care plans.

What seems to be the problem?

The problem? The 5 million people not being covered by GOOD health care plans. The 5 million people who may be forced to purchase WORSE health care plans at much, much higher rates.

That's not what's happening.

What happened was that insurance companies sold many people "cheap' health care plans that were sub par without telling them that.

They were "sub par" because they didn't cover much in the way of healthcare. Many had really strict caps on how much they would cover..as in they would only go up to a few thousand dollars. They sold these after the law went into effect and had every intention of canceling, jacking up the prices and blaming it on ObamaCare.

Neat trick.

It's amazing so many of you folks fell for it.

Well not really.

By the way..I am selling a bridge in brooklyn..cheap.

You can call it the TemplarKormac Bridge and charge cars to cross it.

Let me know if you are interested.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!


Too funny.

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

an boehner was your high water mark when he shut down the gubmnet ....we no your party is done cause we just pulled the fork out of ya....

only an idiot would laugh when it's over and done and think it's not.

That's a no brainer...a handful of shit is an alternative to Obabble care...the man is the equivalent of a fart in a tornado.

Hold that thought and let's see if that's what the outcome will be in 9-12 months. I say heads are going to roll in the WH and they will rein this problem in.

Reverting back to what I went through with my late spouse, which is very common with people who have what is considered excellent insurance through an Ivy League institution, is not an option.

In our situation and in millions of others (which is why Michael Moore made "Sicko"), it takes two people to get seriously ill:

One to actually get sick,

and the other to do nothing but fight with the insurance company for every fucking claim, getting claims kicked back because of the wrong billing code used by the doc/hospital, and being told by the fucking insurance company that they don't cover THAT drug....they want your doc to describe THIS drug.

...that is NOT AN OPTION.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Senate Democrats Bring Worries Over Obamacare to White House - NationalJournal.com

 

[JakeStarkey]

The reactionaries are running around that Americans dislike them more than they disapprove of BHO.

We are not going back to before ACA, folks.

 

[Edgetho]

Really? be taken care of? In what sense, what context?

Society advances and tools like you are always demanding we put on the brakes and go forward in reverse.

How are we going in reverse. You were right earlier. This is really about whether health care is a right. The fact is it is not. It is not possible for health care to be a right because it requires theft from others to accomplish.

A right is what society agrees it is. Rights are human constructs. Rights do not exist in the wilds of nature

You don't know much about our Founding Fathers, do you?

I mean ours..... Madison, Hamilton, Franklin, Adams. Not yours, Marx, Hitler, Stalin.

Ours believed strongly in "Natural Rights"

Here's an opportunity to learn something. I suggest you take advantage


Bill of Rights Institute: Natural Rights | Bill of Rights Institute

 

[bigrebnc1775]

The reactionaries are running around that Americans dislike them more than they disapprove of BHO.

We are not going back to before ACA, folks.

And why not?

 

[Politico]

So thirty pages later and still nothing sigh.

 

[dblack]

Really? be taken care of? In what sense, what context?

Society advances and tools like you are always demanding we put on the brakes and go forward in reverse.

How are we going in reverse. You were right earlier. This is really about whether health care is a right. The fact is it is not. It is not possible for health care to be a right because it requires theft from others to accomplish.

A right is what society agrees it is. Rights are human constructs. Rights do not exist in the wilds of nature

It's not an inalienable right, which is the kind government is limited to protecting. Health care can, if we so choose, be a service government provides. But it makes no logical sense to classify it alongside political rights like freedom of speech, association, etc... Doing so is demagoguery, attempting to trojan it in as a de facto responsibility of government - since there is already widespread agreement that government is supposed to 'protect our rights'. It's just more Orwellian word games to obfuscate an agenda.

 

[dblack]

The reactionaries are running around that Americans dislike them more than they disapprove of BHO.

We are not going back to before ACA, folks.

And why not?

We might be. We might be moving on to something worse. Hopefully we can avoid either of those.

 

[Bern80]

Really? be taken care of? In what sense, what context?

Society advances and tools like you are always demanding we put on the brakes and go forward in reverse.

How are we going in reverse. You were right earlier. This is really about whether health care is a right. The fact is it is not. It is not possible for health care to be a right because it requires theft from others to accomplish.

A right is what society agrees it is. Rights are human constructs. Rights do not exist in the wilds of nature

That has been debated by minds greater mindds than either of ours for centuries. It certainly can not be taken as a statement of fact. Assuming you're right for argument's sake however that means your assertion that you have the right to obligate me to your well being is nor more valid than my contention that you don't. It's merely a matter of how many people you can get to agree with you. Good luck with that.

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

You can read the Constitution until you go blind, quote the Founding Fathers until you are hoarse, but the bottom line is that this country is at the bottom, relatively speaking considering that we are still the most powerful country in the world, when it comes to health care. Period, end of story:

The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems

Rank Country

1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America

The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems

 

[Bern80]

The reactionaries are running around that Americans dislike them more than they disapprove of BHO.

We are not going back to before ACA, folks.

But you just said we were going back to the way it was. Which is it?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

You can read the Constitution until you go blind, quote the Founding Fathers until you are hoarse, but the bottom line is that this country is at the bottom, relatively speaking considering that we are still the most powerful country in the world, when it comes to health care. Period, end of story:

The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems

Rank Country

1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America

The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems

Yes and your point? obamacare has already shown it's not going to make us number 1 when it comes to healthcare.
We are number 1 in buying pills also.
number 1 in doctor visits
number 1 in leading the world in new medical procedures

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

[MENTION=36318]Edgetho[/MENTION]

How are we going in reverse. You were right earlier. This is really about whether health care is a right. The fact is it is not. It is not possible for health care to be a right because it requires theft from others to accomplish.

A right is what society agrees it is. Rights are human constructs. Rights do not exist in the wilds of nature

You don't know much about our Founding Fathers, do you?

I mean ours..... Madison, Hamilton, Franklin, Adams. Not yours, Marx, Hitler, Stalin.

Ours believed strongly in "Natural Rights"

Here's an opportunity to learn something. I suggest you take advantage


Bill of Rights Institute: Natural Rights | Bill of Rights Institute

The founding fathers?
In actuality Dante knows much more than the average American knows.

"Natural rights" Hmm, the founders believed all sorts of things. The concepts of natural law/natural rights is an interesting one and one that has been discussed at length in other threads.

You do know the founding fathers are NOT deities? You do know they were extremely fallible and most knew it and commented upon that fact?

One thing, the US Constitution was NOT written by the founding fathers, it was written by the 'framers' -- The constitution that became ours was ratified by a whole nother subset; the ratifiers. Hmm...


looks like you've been spanked and need to go back to class. Now fuck off tweprie

 

[Bern80]

You can read the Constitution until you go blind, quote the Founding Fathers until you are hoarse, but the bottom line is that this country is at the bottom, relatively speaking considering that we are still the most powerful country in the world, when it comes to health care. Period, end of story:

Rank Country

1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America

The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems

I was waiting for someone to do this. I love it when people cite this report who clearly never actually looked at how those ranking were established. Here's the quick version;

Those rankings are essentially an average of about half dozen other metrics such as cost per individual, effective delivery, system responsiveness, etc. It so happens the categories that America ranks lowest in are all associated with costs to the individual. For whatever reason, the WHO places premium weighting on what health care costs which is what dragged the U.S. down. In other areas such as outcomes and responsivenss the U.S. is at the very top. And really the cost thing shouldn't surprise anyone. By the WHO rankings the quality of our service is at or near the top and generally speaking, better quality costs more money.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

A right is what society agrees it is. Rights are human constructs. Rights do not exist in the wilds of nature

You don't know much about our Founding Fathers, do you?

I mean ours..... Madison, Hamilton, Franklin, Adams. Not yours, Marx, Hitler, Stalin.

Ours believed strongly in "Natural Rights"

Here's an opportunity to learn something. I suggest you take advantage


Bill of Rights Institute: Natural Rights | Bill of Rights Institute

The founding fathers?
In actuality Dante knows much more than the average American knows.

"Natural rights" Hmm, the founders believed all sorts of things. The concepts of natural law/natural rights is an interesting one and one that has been discussed at length in other threads.

You do know the founding fathers are NOT deities? You do know they were extremely fallible and most knew it and commented upon that fact?

One thing, the US Constitution was NOT written by the founding fathers, it was written by the 'framers' -- The constitution that became ours was ratified by a whole nother subset; the ratifiers. Hmm...


looks like you've been spanked and need to go back to class. Now fuck off tweprie

dante talking in third person is a sign that dante is insane

 

[Contumacious]

You can read the Constitution until you go blind, quote the Founding Fathers until you are hoarse, but the bottom line is that this country is at the bottom, relatively speaking considering that we are still the most powerful country in the world, when it comes to health care. Period, end of story:

The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems

Rank Country

1 France

OK dude learn to speak french and "au revoir" to you.

.

 

[Amelia]

The reactionaries are running around that Americans dislike them more than they disapprove of BHO.

We are not going back to before ACA, folks.

And why not?

Because Obama apologists like Jake have too much invested in O to allow the ACA to be rolled back.

 

[bripat9643]

Really? be taken care of? In what sense, what context?

Society advances and tools like you are always demanding we put on the brakes and go forward in reverse.

How are we going in reverse. You were right earlier. This is really about whether health care is a right. The fact is it is not. It is not possible for health care to be a right because it requires theft from others to accomplish.

A right is what society agrees it is. Rights are human constructs. Rights do not exist in the wilds of nature

Utter horseshit. According to your theory, there was nothing immoral about slavery because society defined black people as property with no rights. Also, gays have no right to marry, so why are all you libturds always whining about it? Gays have all the rights society has decided they are entitled to.

Whenever some goose-stepper says rights are whatever society says, they are trying to justify violating one or more of them.

Your theory is one of the fundamental axioms of fascism.

 

[Seawytch]

I don't understand why the party of "fiscal responsibility" isn't proposing Single Payer...

July 2013: Economist Gerald Friedman, Ph.D., University of Massachusetts, Amherst

“Under the single-payer system created by HR 676 [the Expanded and Improved Medicare for All Act, introduced by Rep. John Conyers Jr., D-Mich.], the U.S. could save an estimated $592 billion annually by slashing the administrative waste associated with the private insurance industry ($476 billion) and reducing pharmaceutical prices to European levels ($116 billion). In 2014, the savings would be enough to cover all 44 million uninsured and upgrade benefits for everyone else.

“Specifically, the savings from a single-payer plan would be more than enough to fund $343 billion in improvements to the health system such as expanded coverage, improved benefits, enhanced reimbursement of providers serving indigent patients, and the elimination of co-payments and deductibles in 2014.

http://www.pnhp.org/facts/single-payer-system-cost