What is the republican solution to ending mass shootings? Why don’t they ever offer solutions?

[Daryl Hunt]

Yes it is commercial. If a gun seller never owned the gun he is selling and a licensed dealer, it's law that he has to run a background check.

Yes, but obviously if he did previously own the gun and sold it at a gun show, it is legal.

No it is not because he is a licensed dealer. Dealers take their shop on the road to gun shows, but being at a gun show does not exempt them from federal regulations.

You don’t have to be a licensed dealer to sell guns at gun show. If you personally were to sell your gun to a stranger, it is perfectly legal for you to not do a background check so long as you have no previous knowledge that it was illegal for him to buy it.

Let's put this debate to an end right now. From Wikipedia:

Federal law requires background checks for commercial gun sales, but an exemption exists for private-party sales whereby "Any person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of the State where he resides as long as he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law."[2][3][4] Under federal law, private-party sellers are not required to perform background checks on buyers, record the sale, or ask for identification, whether at a gun show or other venue. This is in contrast to sales by gun stores and other Federal Firearms License (FFL) holders, who are required to perform background checks and record all sales on almost all buyers, regardless of whether the venue is their business location or a gun show. Some states have passed laws to require background checks for private sales with limited exceptions. Access to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) is limited to FFL holders.

Gun show loophole - Wikipedia

Lol dude this is from the exact quote you laid out:

]”Under federal law, private-party sellers are not required to perform background checks on buyers, record the sale, or ask for identification, whether at a gun show or other venue.”

In many of the States, he is correct.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Yes it is commercial. If a gun seller never owned the gun he is selling and a licensed dealer, it's law that he has to run a background check.

Yes, but obviously if he did previously own the gun and sold it at a gun show, it is legal.

No it is not because he is a licensed dealer. Dealers take their shop on the road to gun shows, but being at a gun show does not exempt them from federal regulations.

You don’t have to be a licensed dealer to sell guns at gun show. If you personally were to sell your gun to a stranger, it is perfectly legal for you to not do a background check so long as you have no previous knowledge that it was illegal for him to buy it.

Let's put this debate to an end right now. From Wikipedia:

Federal law requires background checks for commercial gun sales, but an exemption exists for private-party sales whereby "Any person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of the State where he resides as long as he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law."[2][3][4] Under federal law, private-party sellers are not required to perform background checks on buyers, record the sale, or ask for identification, whether at a gun show or other venue. This is in contrast to sales by gun stores and other Federal Firearms License (FFL) holders, who are required to perform background checks and record all sales on almost all buyers, regardless of whether the venue is their business location or a gun show. Some states have passed laws to require background checks for private sales with limited exceptions. Access to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) is limited to FFL holders.

Gun show loophole - Wikipedia

Lol dude this is from the exact quote you laid out:

]”Under federal law, private-party sellers are not required to perform background checks on buyers, record the sale, or ask for identification, whether at a gun show or other venue.”

Okay, that's what I said earlier. Your claim is that licensed dealers have a loophole that if they are selling weapons at a show, they are not required to do a background check. My link proves that you are wrong; they do have to perform a background check because they are a licensed dealer. There is no loophole for that.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

PolitiFact Sheet: 3 things to know about the 'gun show loophole'

22% of guns are sold without back ground checks

97% of Americans think that ALL gun sales should have back ground checks.

So what does that prove? I stated that only licensed dealers have to run background checks and in fact, some states require all sales to have background checks.

Colorado for one. But it's a tough one to enforce. But giving it a few years, it will make a difference.

It may be a tough one to enforce, but since it's a law, the seller is responsible for the sale if that weapon is used in the commission of a crime.

I think you are the one that said, "It's the Price we Pay". Having every private gun sale to have to have a background check on the seller sounds like a hassle. But the two people (the buyer and seller) can go to any licensed Gun Dealer and have the background check ran for a whopping 7 bucks. The Gun Store gets the 7 bucks for the couple of minutes of their time. The State gets zero. In time, all almost all guns will end up going through the Background check. And the peoples (seller and buyer) names will be on temporary file with the Gun Dealer, not with the State or Feds.

Well.......that's like saying if I sell my car to my nephew, I should be required to perform a check into his driving record to make sure he hasn't had a DUI in the last five years.

In some cases (such as a stranger) I can understand such a law, but if I sell my neighbor, my family, my girlfriend a gun, I should not be required to do a background check on them.

The car is highly regulated. But if you loan your car to your nephew who has a history of dangerous operation then you will be held liable. Also, if you don't bother to check to see if he is licensed then you can be held liable. Cars are actually more highly regulated than guns if you want to operate them on Public Lands. In a way, since most states require insurance, the nephew is going through a defacto background check.

 

[Billy000]

Yes, but obviously if he did previously own the gun and sold it at a gun show, it is legal.

No it is not because he is a licensed dealer. Dealers take their shop on the road to gun shows, but being at a gun show does not exempt them from federal regulations.

You don’t have to be a licensed dealer to sell guns at gun show. If you personally were to sell your gun to a stranger, it is perfectly legal for you to not do a background check so long as you have no previous knowledge that it was illegal for him to buy it.

Let's put this debate to an end right now. From Wikipedia:

Federal law requires background checks for commercial gun sales, but an exemption exists for private-party sales whereby "Any person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of the State where he resides as long as he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law."[2][3][4] Under federal law, private-party sellers are not required to perform background checks on buyers, record the sale, or ask for identification, whether at a gun show or other venue. This is in contrast to sales by gun stores and other Federal Firearms License (FFL) holders, who are required to perform background checks and record all sales on almost all buyers, regardless of whether the venue is their business location or a gun show. Some states have passed laws to require background checks for private sales with limited exceptions. Access to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) is limited to FFL holders.

Gun show loophole - Wikipedia

Lol dude this is from the exact quote you laid out:

]”Under federal law, private-party sellers are not required to perform background checks on buyers, record the sale, or ask for identification, whether at a gun show or other venue.”

Okay, that's what I said earlier. Your claim is that licensed dealers have a loophole that if they are selling weapons at a show, they are not required to do a background check. My link proves that you are wrong; they do have to perform a background check because they are a licensed dealer. There is no loophole for that.

No what I have been saying all along is that any average dude can sell his personal weapon to someone and not do a background check. This can be done at a gun show.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

No it is not because he is a licensed dealer. Dealers take their shop on the road to gun shows, but being at a gun show does not exempt them from federal regulations.

You don’t have to be a licensed dealer to sell guns at gun show. If you personally were to sell your gun to a stranger, it is perfectly legal for you to not do a background check so long as you have no previous knowledge that it was illegal for him to buy it.

Let's put this debate to an end right now. From Wikipedia:

Federal law requires background checks for commercial gun sales, but an exemption exists for private-party sales whereby "Any person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of the State where he resides as long as he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law."[2][3][4] Under federal law, private-party sellers are not required to perform background checks on buyers, record the sale, or ask for identification, whether at a gun show or other venue. This is in contrast to sales by gun stores and other Federal Firearms License (FFL) holders, who are required to perform background checks and record all sales on almost all buyers, regardless of whether the venue is their business location or a gun show. Some states have passed laws to require background checks for private sales with limited exceptions. Access to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) is limited to FFL holders.

Gun show loophole - Wikipedia

Lol dude this is from the exact quote you laid out:

]”Under federal law, private-party sellers are not required to perform background checks on buyers, record the sale, or ask for identification, whether at a gun show or other venue.”

Okay, that's what I said earlier. Your claim is that licensed dealers have a loophole that if they are selling weapons at a show, they are not required to do a background check. My link proves that you are wrong; they do have to perform a background check because they are a licensed dealer. There is no loophole for that.

No what I have been saying all along is that any average dude can sell his personal weapon to someone and not do a background check. This can be done at a gun show.

Unless the State rules that even they need to have a background check. Some states are doing this.

 

[Chuz Life]

PolitiFact Sheet: 3 things to know about the 'gun show loophole'

22% of guns are sold without back ground checks

97% of Americans think that ALL gun sales should have back ground checks.

So what does that prove? I stated that only licensed dealers have to run background checks and in fact, some states require all sales to have background checks.

Colorado for one. But it's a tough one to enforce. But giving it a few years, it will make a difference.

I'll take that bet

Case in point. The 1934 Firearms Act specifically mentioned the Thompson. They didn't bann it or outlaw it, the regulated it. It took about 10 years to get them off the streets. But it meant a complete influence in the manufacture of the product as well. At first, it didn't make much of a difference. But when the parts to repair the Thompson were no longer available and it became a felony to sell it privately and to sell it to anyone not possessing the proper Firearms License then it was just a matter of time. So you lose that bet.

I know of at least two people who own a Thompson Machine Gun.

Like I said, I'll take the bet.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

No what I have been saying all along is that any average dude can sell his personal weapon to someone and not do a background check. This can be done at a gun show.

I never argued that. This debate came up when you said this in post 1669:

No actually. At gun shows, they are exempt from needing background checks. As long as the dealer doesn’t have previous knowledge that someone is a dangerous felon, they can sell it.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

PolitiFact Sheet: 3 things to know about the 'gun show loophole'

22% of guns are sold without back ground checks

97% of Americans think that ALL gun sales should have back ground checks.

So what does that prove? I stated that only licensed dealers have to run background checks and in fact, some states require all sales to have background checks.

Colorado for one. But it's a tough one to enforce. But giving it a few years, it will make a difference.

I'll take that bet

Case in point. The 1934 Firearms Act specifically mentioned the Thompson. They didn't bann it or outlaw it, the regulated it. It took about 10 years to get them off the streets. But it meant a complete influence in the manufacture of the product as well. At first, it didn't make much of a difference. But when the parts to repair the Thompson were no longer available and it became a felony to sell it privately and to sell it to anyone not possessing the proper Firearms License then it was just a matter of time. So you lose that bet.

I know of at least two people who own a Thompson Machine Gun.

Like I said, I'll take the bet.

And I have a buddy of a friend that has a brother......

I know of a few that own Thompsons. Unless they are gun collectors and have the FFL or EFL license, those Thompsons are either inert or they are the Semi Auto version. It's possible to have one still in existance. But if you show up with it, they WILL confiscate it unless you are fallowing the law. And the Law Enforcement will not be very jolly when they discover you have it.

 

[Billy000]

No what I have been saying all along is that any average dude can sell his personal weapon to someone and not do a background check. This can be done at a gun show.

I never argued that. This debate came up when you said this in post 1669:

No actually. At gun shows, they are exempt from needing background checks. As long as the dealer doesn’t have previous knowledge that someone is a dangerous felon, they can sell it.

Yes, fair, what I said there was misleading, but I was trying to distinguish between the two after that.

 

[Chuz Life]

So what does that prove? I stated that only licensed dealers have to run background checks and in fact, some states require all sales to have background checks.

Colorado for one. But it's a tough one to enforce. But giving it a few years, it will make a difference.

I'll take that bet

Case in point. The 1934 Firearms Act specifically mentioned the Thompson. They didn't bann it or outlaw it, the regulated it. It took about 10 years to get them off the streets. But it meant a complete influence in the manufacture of the product as well. At first, it didn't make much of a difference. But when the parts to repair the Thompson were no longer available and it became a felony to sell it privately and to sell it to anyone not possessing the proper Firearms License then it was just a matter of time. So you lose that bet.

I know of at least two people who own a Thompson Machine Gun.

Like I said, I'll take the bet.

And I have a buddy of a friend that has a brother......

I know of a few that own Thompsons. Unless they are gun collectors and have the FFL or EFL license, those Thompsons are either inert or they are the Semi Auto version. It's possible to have one still in existance. But if you show up with it, they WILL confiscate it unless you are fallowing the law. And the Law Enforcement will not be very jolly when they discover you have it.

Yeah....


Ummmm....

thompson full auto conversion - Bing video

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

No what I have been saying all along is that any average dude can sell his personal weapon to someone and not do a background check. This can be done at a gun show.

I never argued that. This debate came up when you said this in post 1669:

No actually. At gun shows, they are exempt from needing background checks. As long as the dealer doesn’t have previous knowledge that someone is a dangerous felon, they can sell it.

Yes, fair, what I said there was misleading, but I was trying to distinguish between the two after that.

Thank you for admitting that. The point is most gun sellers are dealers at gun shows. Sure, there are private sales which by federal law, does not require them to do a background check. But in reference to criminals getting guns, the percentage of criminals that obtain firearms from a gun show are very minimal. Therefore eliminating the so-called loophole will have very little impact on the firearms used in crimes today.

 

[Billy000]

No what I have been saying all along is that any average dude can sell his personal weapon to someone and not do a background check. This can be done at a gun show.

I never argued that. This debate came up when you said this in post 1669:

No actually. At gun shows, they are exempt from needing background checks. As long as the dealer doesn’t have previous knowledge that someone is a dangerous felon, they can sell it.

Yes, fair, what I said there was misleading, but I was trying to distinguish between the two after that.

Thank you for admitting that. The point is most gun sellers are dealers at gun shows. Sure, there are private sales which by federal law, does not require them to do a background check. But in reference to criminals getting guns, the percentage of criminals that obtain firearms from a gun show are very minimal. Therefore eliminating the so-called loophole will have very little impact on the firearms used in crimes today.

I’m glad we could have a civil discussion

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Colorado for one. But it's a tough one to enforce. But giving it a few years, it will make a difference.

I'll take that bet

Case in point. The 1934 Firearms Act specifically mentioned the Thompson. They didn't bann it or outlaw it, the regulated it. It took about 10 years to get them off the streets. But it meant a complete influence in the manufacture of the product as well. At first, it didn't make much of a difference. But when the parts to repair the Thompson were no longer available and it became a felony to sell it privately and to sell it to anyone not possessing the proper Firearms License then it was just a matter of time. So you lose that bet.

I know of at least two people who own a Thompson Machine Gun.

Like I said, I'll take the bet.

And I have a buddy of a friend that has a brother......

I know of a few that own Thompsons. Unless they are gun collectors and have the FFL or EFL license, those Thompsons are either inert or they are the Semi Auto version. It's possible to have one still in existance. But if you show up with it, they WILL confiscate it unless you are fallowing the law. And the Law Enforcement will not be very jolly when they discover you have it.

Yeah....


Ummmm....

thompson full auto conversion - Bing video

I clicked on the link Even when I clicked on the Thompson Conversion Parts List, there is no mention of the parts nor the method. What you are seeing in those clips are LEGAL Thompson 45 Cal SMGs, not conversions. The owners are all either FFL or EFL licensed gun owners. They didn't outlaw them, they didn't ban them, they regulated them. If you want one, you can easily get at least an EFL to own one with just a bit more hassle than a background check.

 

[Chuz Life]

Therefore eliminating the so-called loophole will have very little impact on the firearms used in crimes today.

I doubt that it would have any significant effect at all.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Therefore eliminating the so-called loophole will have very little impact on the firearms used in crimes today.

I doubt that it would have any significant effect at all.

As long as you can't do confiscations then you go with the method that takes years to have any effect. But it has to start somewhere. I don't feel the need to kick down my neighbors door just to check his firearms.

 

[Chuz Life]

I'll take that bet

Case in point. The 1934 Firearms Act specifically mentioned the Thompson. They didn't bann it or outlaw it, the regulated it. It took about 10 years to get them off the streets. But it meant a complete influence in the manufacture of the product as well. At first, it didn't make much of a difference. But when the parts to repair the Thompson were no longer available and it became a felony to sell it privately and to sell it to anyone not possessing the proper Firearms License then it was just a matter of time. So you lose that bet.

I know of at least two people who own a Thompson Machine Gun.

Like I said, I'll take the bet.

And I have a buddy of a friend that has a brother......

I know of a few that own Thompsons. Unless they are gun collectors and have the FFL or EFL license, those Thompsons are either inert or they are the Semi Auto version. It's possible to have one still in existance. But if you show up with it, they WILL confiscate it unless you are fallowing the law. And the Law Enforcement will not be very jolly when they discover you have it.

Yeah....


Ummmm....

thompson full auto conversion - Bing video

I clicked on the link Even when I clicked on the Thompson Conversion Parts List, there is no mention of the parts nor the method. What you are seeing in those clips are LEGAL Thompson 45 Cal SMGs, not conversions. The owners are all either FFL or EFL licensed gun owners. They didn't outlaw them, they didn't ban them, they regulated them. If you want one, you can easily get at least an EFL to own one with just a bit more hassle than a background check.

Question:

Are you gonna ban all Semi Autos too?

If not, you are going to have to ban Rubber Bands.

You know that, right?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

No what I have been saying all along is that any average dude can sell his personal weapon to someone and not do a background check. This can be done at a gun show.

I never argued that. This debate came up when you said this in post 1669:

No actually. At gun shows, they are exempt from needing background checks. As long as the dealer doesn’t have previous knowledge that someone is a dangerous felon, they can sell it.

Yes, fair, what I said there was misleading, but I was trying to distinguish between the two after that.

Thank you for admitting that. The point is most gun sellers are dealers at gun shows. Sure, there are private sales which by federal law, does not require them to do a background check. But in reference to criminals getting guns, the percentage of criminals that obtain firearms from a gun show are very minimal. Therefore eliminating the so-called loophole will have very little impact on the firearms used in crimes today.

I’m glad we could have a civil discussion

Thank you, and so am I. Very rare in USMB these days.

 

[Chuz Life]

Sweet silence.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Case in point. The 1934 Firearms Act specifically mentioned the Thompson. They didn't bann it or outlaw it, the regulated it. It took about 10 years to get them off the streets. But it meant a complete influence in the manufacture of the product as well. At first, it didn't make much of a difference. But when the parts to repair the Thompson were no longer available and it became a felony to sell it privately and to sell it to anyone not possessing the proper Firearms License then it was just a matter of time. So you lose that bet.

I know of at least two people who own a Thompson Machine Gun.

Like I said, I'll take the bet.

And I have a buddy of a friend that has a brother......

I know of a few that own Thompsons. Unless they are gun collectors and have the FFL or EFL license, those Thompsons are either inert or they are the Semi Auto version. It's possible to have one still in existance. But if you show up with it, they WILL confiscate it unless you are fallowing the law. And the Law Enforcement will not be very jolly when they discover you have it.

Yeah....


Ummmm....

thompson full auto conversion - Bing video

I clicked on the link Even when I clicked on the Thompson Conversion Parts List, there is no mention of the parts nor the method. What you are seeing in those clips are LEGAL Thompson 45 Cal SMGs, not conversions. The owners are all either FFL or EFL licensed gun owners. They didn't outlaw them, they didn't ban them, they regulated them. If you want one, you can easily get at least an EFL to own one with just a bit more hassle than a background check.

Question:

Are you gonna ban all Semi Autos too?

If not, you are going to have to ban Rubber Bands.

You know that, right?

Oh great Cupcake one, when did I EVER say that I wanted to ban anything. Try discussing for a change instead of making these outlandish claims. Or, as I say,stop making shit up.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

No what I have been saying all along is that any average dude can sell his personal weapon to someone and not do a background check. This can be done at a gun show.

I never argued that. This debate came up when you said this in post 1669:

No actually. At gun shows, they are exempt from needing background checks. As long as the dealer doesn’t have previous knowledge that someone is a dangerous felon, they can sell it.

Yes, fair, what I said there was misleading, but I was trying to distinguish between the two after that.

Thank you for admitting that. The point is most gun sellers are dealers at gun shows. Sure, there are private sales which by federal law, does not require them to do a background check. But in reference to criminals getting guns, the percentage of criminals that obtain firearms from a gun show are very minimal. Therefore eliminating the so-called loophole will have very little impact on the firearms used in crimes today.

I’m glad we could have a civil discussion

Thank you, and so am I. Very rare in USMB these days.

I have enjoyed it as well.