What Is "Torture"?

[2aguy]

So they support war crimes, so what?

They are the experts on what torture is and isn't.....are you?

 

[irosie91]

the US code is very vague-----it can be "interpreted" to
include anything ----such as a ten minute delay on suppertime. or simply handcuffing a person

No it can't you incredibly stupid person. It is quite specific to people to whom words mean something.

(1) “torture” means an act committed by a person acting under the color of law specifically intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering (other than pain or suffering incidental to lawful sanctions) upon another person within his custody or physical control;

What part of that do you have trouble interpreting?

So, when I had to eat my green beans as a child, I was being tortured?

Yeah ... take that mom....

.

for me it was green peas-------I was SO SLOW---with those damned little green balls-----that my mom THREATENED ME---------"they are going to have babies"

 

[irosie91]

very vague "MENTAL SUFFERING"------just being in jail leads to depression----that is mental suffering.

have you ever testified in court-------sitting in a witness stand being CROSS EXAMINED by----"the other side"----is physically trying

Do you understand what 'incidental to lawful sanctions' means, you unbelievable goof?

no

 

[ChrisL]

I don't agree with torturing prisoners, not because I feel sorry for them in any way, but because, in most instances, people will say anything to get the torture to stop, so any information gleaned from torture is not always accurate information.

The purpose of torture is not to get information but to get confessions. It will always succeed in getting confessions.

And fake confessions too. People tend to say what their interrogators want to hear to make the torture stop. That is just one reason why we don't like to use it. It does not produce reliable information. Goodness, there have been cases where interrogators did NOT use torture methods, but suspects have given fake confessions just to get it over with. PEOPLE are very unreliable.

 

[percysunshine]

So, when I had to eat my green beans as a child, I was being tortured?

Yeah ... take that mom....

.

Incidental to lawful sanction. Tell it to the Padre.

Surely you can point to this imaginary 'green bean' law.

.

 

[cnm]

So they support war crimes, so what?

They are the experts on what torture is and isn't.....are you?

They obviously aren't experts on what is and isn't torture if they think acts the CIA got up to were not torture, they are merely supporters of war crimes.
That you assert they are experts means nothing except that you too don't understand what torture is.

 

[cnm]

That is just one reason why we don't like to use it.

I don't think that's quite true, all the evidence is that you do like to use it.

 

[cnm]

Surely you can point to this imaginary 'green bean' law.

.

What are you? You don't know the law is that Mom is always right? No wonder you got in trouble with the law.

 

[ChrisL]

That is just one reason why we don't like to use it.

I don't think that's quite true, all the evidence is that you do like to use it.

Well, I'm sure sometimes, if you KNOW that a person knows information, then it could be a useful tactic.

I keep thinking of the Dirty Harry movie where there was a guy whom Dirty Harry knew had kidnapped a girl, and this guy knew where she was. In such a case, I would be all for torture. Torture his arse!

 

[percysunshine]

Surely you can point to this imaginary 'green bean' law.

.

What are you? You don't know the law is that Mom is always right? No wonder you got in trouble with the law.

See, even you approve of torture...I suspected this was the case.

.

 

[ChrisL]

So they support war crimes, so what?

They are the experts on what torture is and isn't.....are you?

They obviously aren't experts on what is and isn't torture if they think acts the CIA got up to were not torture, they are merely supporters of war crimes.
That you assert they are experts means nothing except that you too don't understand what torture is.

So, you don't like that the United States has used torture before? Oh well. We certainly are not the only country to do it, in the past, now or in the future.

What country are you from? I'll bet I could dig up some bad stuff about your country too.

 

[2aguy]

I don't agree with torturing prisoners, not because I feel sorry for them in any way, but because, in most instances, people will say anything to get the torture to stop, so any information gleaned from torture is not always accurate information.

ChrisL...you are mistaken...the libs have thrown out that line in order to discredit and lie about what the CIA did....from what I have learned from reading about the interrogation process there is an initial phase where they talked to the prisoners....when they refused to cooperate they moved into the enhanced interrogation techniques....then, when those worked they would go back to the discussion phase to continue the interrogation..

The idea that they will say anything to make the interrogation stop is just something the libs say because they don't understand the process....the first questions they ask the prisoner are things they actually know the truth about....that way they can test wether or not the guy is going to tell the truth....when they lie....they get the treatment....when they say something...the CIA checked out their answer...if it was a lie...they got the treatment again...see the thing is...if they lie...they are still in custody....they don't let them go...so lying has no benefit...and they actually check out the answers to see if they are accurate...

Another thing....does everyone know they only waterboarded 3 guys....only 3....and they were the top leaders that they captured....and after they used waterboarding and got KSM talking...he gave them everything....the entire operational structure of al queda...something they didn't have before 9/11....it saved lives....

the terrorists had been trained in counter measures...ksm knew how long the CIA could pour the water, and would hold up his hand and tick off the seconds on his fingers, but even he got tired of it and decided to talk....the CIA also learned that the terrorists had a set of "rules" governing their behavior when captured....they had to hold out as long as they could...but once they reached that point...they could talk...this was also learned from these guys....

See, the terrorist leadership and the guys at gitmo were the true believers....they know that allah is on their side and that their side is going to win...no matter what they told the interrogators so in the end it wouldn't matter.....the libs don't understand these guys and that lack of understanding is going to get Americans killed....

 

[ChrisL]

I don't agree with torturing prisoners, not because I feel sorry for them in any way, but because, in most instances, people will say anything to get the torture to stop, so any information gleaned from torture is not always accurate information.

ChrisL...you are mistaken...the libs have thrown out that line in order to discredit and lie about what the CIA did....from what I have learned from reading about the interrogation process there is an initial phase where they talked to the prisoners....when they refused to cooperate they moved into the enhanced interrogation techniques....then, when those worked they would go back to the discussion phase to continue the interrogation..

The idea that they will say anything to make the interrogation stop is just something the libs say because they don't understand the process....the first questions they ask the prisoner are things they actually know the truth about....that way they can test wether or not the guy is going to tell the truth....when they lie....they get the treatment....when they say something...the CIA checked out their answer...if it was a lie...they got the treatment again...see the thing is...if they lie...they are still in custody....they don't let them go...so lying has no benefit...and they actually check out the answers to see if they are accurate...

Another thing....does everyone know they only waterboarded 3 guys....only 3....and they were the top leaders that they captured....and after they used waterboarding and got KSM talking...he gave them everything....the entire operational structure of al queda...something they didn't have before 9/11....it saved lives....

the terrorists had been trained in counter measures...ksm knew how long the CIA could pour the water, and would hold up his hand and tick off the seconds on his fingers, but even he got tired of it and decided to talk....the CIA also learned that the terrorists had a set of "rules" governing their behavior when captured....they had to hold out as long as they could...but once they reached that point...they could talk...this was also learned from these guys....

See, the terrorist leadership and the guys at gitmo were the true believers....they know that allah is on their side and that their side is going to win...no matter what they told the interrogators so in the end it wouldn't matter.....the libs don't understand these guys and that lack of understanding is going to get Americans killed....

I don't really doubt any of the above, but it sets a precedence IMO that is not good.

 

[percysunshine]

I don't agree with torturing prisoners, not because I feel sorry for them in any way, but because, in most instances, people will say anything to get the torture to stop, so any information gleaned from torture is not always accurate information.

ChrisL...you are mistaken...the libs have thrown out that line in order to discredit and lie about what the CIA did....from what I have learned from reading about the interrogation process there is an initial phase where they talked to the prisoners....when they refused to cooperate they moved into the enhanced interrogation techniques....then, when those worked they would go back to the discussion phase to continue the interrogation..

The idea that they will say anything to make the interrogation stop is just something the libs say because they don't understand the process....the first questions they ask the prisoner are things they actually know the truth about....that way they can test wether or not the guy is going to tell the truth....when they lie....they get the treatment....when they say something...the CIA checked out their answer...if it was a lie...they got the treatment again...see the thing is...if they lie...they are still in custody....they don't let them go...so lying has no benefit...and they actually check out the answers to see if they are accurate...

Another thing....does everyone know they only waterboarded 3 guys....only 3....and they were the top leaders that they captured....and after they used waterboarding and got KSM talking...he gave them everything....the entire operational structure of al queda...something they didn't have before 9/11....it saved lives....

the terrorists had been trained in counter measures...ksm knew how long the CIA could pour the water, and would hold up his hand and tick off the seconds on his fingers, but even he got tired of it and decided to talk....the CIA also learned that the terrorists had a set of "rules" governing their behavior when captured....they had to hold out as long as they could...but once they reached that point...they could talk...this was also learned from these guys....

See, the terrorist leadership and the guys at gitmo were the true believers....they know that allah is on their side and that their side is going to win...no matter what they told the interrogators so in the end it wouldn't matter.....the libs don't understand these guys and that lack of understanding is going to get Americans killed....

"....from what I have learned from reading about the interrogation process there is an initial phase where they talked to the prisoners....when they refused to cooperate they moved into the enhanced interrogation techniques....then, when those worked they would go back to the discussion phase to continue the interrogation.."

That is exactly what mom did to get me to voluntarily eat my green beans. The subterfuge is palpable.

.

 

[2aguy]

What you people don't understand is the nature of this enemy....and what the Geneva Conventions used to be designed for....

The Geneva Conventions were supposed to be a way to protect civilians caught in the middle of a war....if soldiers behaved according to the rules, and didn't act predatory toward civilians, they were supposed to get the benefits of the Geneva Convention....while those who did not fight for a national military, in uniform, under the rules of war, were punished and not protected....all in order to try to save civilians from predation by these monsters....

That's gone now...now they can rape, pillage and murder and they get the same treatment as honorable soldiers. And civilians will suffer more, not less.

And the point of what we did, and it was not torture...it left no permanent harm, and stopped as soon as the monsters cooperated....in order to keep another 3,000 people from being murdered.....

I'll stick by the experts word on wether waterboarding is torture...you libs are all about the experts....when they back up your side....but when they don't....then their expertise doesn't matter...

These techniques can't be used against U.S. citizens....we are protected by the Bill of Rights and the Constitution...they can't be used against the military personel of legitimate nation states...because they are protected by the Geneva Convention

These monsters...who do not follow civilized rules for war.....these techniques are harmless, they leave no permanent injury....unlike using a drone to kill these guys, as well as any innocent women and children next to them...yeah, that's a better way to go...right? And waterboarding gets them to talk, even when they have made vows to die in their effort to engage in jihad.....

You libtards don't get it...waterboarding is a humane way to get information from some of the greatest monsters to ever walk the planet...it is humane, saves lives, and doesn't hurt the terrorist.....

But of course, you guys have become so emotional, you have distorted what it is in order to be outraged about it....and you will cost innocent people their lives...morons....

 

[2aguy]

I don't really doubt any of the above, but it sets a precedence IMO that is not good.

Water boarding the 3, only 3, terrorists saved lives....I'll live with that as an American....Water boarding is humane, and doesn't harm the terrorist in any way....the people who say it does are lying about what it is.....

 

[2aguy]

I was driving last night and was listening to the Dennis Prager radio show....he made some points that are true....imagine if the political parties in this were reversed....if the Republicans came out with a report, with no democrats participating...would it have gotten any coverage at all....and would they have called it a Republican report, like this report is a democrat report, or would they have called it a "Senate" report, hiding the identity of the party that put the report out...

I think the answers are pretty obvious....

 

[cnm]

Well, I'm sure sometimes, if you KNOW that a person knows information, then it could be a useful tactic.

I keep thinking of the Dirty Harry movie where there was a guy whom Dirty Harry knew had kidnapped a girl, and this guy knew where she was. In such a case, I would be all for torture. Torture his arse!

For gods' sakes. Clint Eastwood movies as reality, should have known. Next you'll be wanting to torture empty chairs to get them to talk.

 

[cnm]

Water boarding the 3, only 3, terrorists saved lives....I'll live with that as an American....Water boarding is humane, and doesn't harm the terrorist in any way....the people who say it does are lying about what it is.....

The Ugly American is no exaggeration.

 

[cnm]

See, even you approve of torture...I suspected this was the case.

.

It definitely was not torture according to US Code. Your Mom could lawfully sanction that you ate your beans, dumb though she may have been in doing so.