What is your background/interest in the Middle East?

[Artevelde]

By it own laws and necessity to survive Pali terorist animals sending suicide bombers into Israel. Eat shit.

Why do its own laws apply in another country?

Can you give one single example of a country using its own laws to govern actions of non-citizens in nother country?

The Palestinian territories are not a country.

 

[Saigon]

Artevelde -

True, but Palestine comes about as close to being a country as it is possible to be - it has a legitimate government, observer status at the UN, and even plays in the World Cup football! The Palestine Authority is a legal entity, and is the legitimate legal custodian (so to speak) of the West Bank until a full and final settlement can be achived.

But legally, that isn't really the issue. The issue for Israel is that it has no legal rights beyond its own legally recognised borders. It has no more legal right to erect buildings, roads or walls in Ramallah than Finland would in Moscow.

 

[Saigon]

Why would one have to "champion" one side?

I was wondering the same - and I think Hoss's question says a lot, doesn't it?

To him, to be interested in this topic you must be against someone. I think it is very difficult for both Hoss and Roudy to come to terms with the concept that some of us have friends on several different sides of this debate, and see it not as black and white, but as a colour spectrum of ideas and beliefs.

 

[Saigon]

Jericho is a Hebrew name. It's even documented in the Old Testament. Get you head out of your ass. There was no such thing as Palestine other than it meant the Roman name for Israel. Even up to 1400 years ago, you beloved Mohammad mentions Israel and it's people but never a Palestine. Ever wonder why? Was Mohammad a Zionist? Palestinians were known to be Jews only up until the late 1960's. Nowhere in your link does it tie Jericho to those Arabs that call themselves Palestinians. They are recent invadors from neighboring Arab countries, and genetically no different. The only people with real ties to the land are Jews, you dipshit. There are hundreds of thousands of archeological sites and artifacts that proof conclusively the existence of an Israel and it's history. The Arabs can't come up with ONE Arab Muslim artifact or site that ties Arabs to that land. You are an anti Semetic pig grasping at straws and false Islamic propoganda.

Roudy -

If you do actually address what I posted, I'll be sure to respond to it.

The history of the term 'Palestine' isn't disputed here - as I have explained several times, by your own definition it is older than the terms 'Germany' or 'Italy' and yet you do not question their legitimacy. Italy is a legitimate state because the people we now called Italians can trace their ancestry back on that land for thousands of years - just as Palestinians can.

As stated earlier, genetic testing has proved beyond any shadow of a doubt that modern day Palestinians are directly linked to their ancestors from 3,000 years back.

Until you understand and accept this, you will never get to Square One of this debate.

 

[Saigon]

Palestine isn't another country you fucking idiot. It never was. It was a region owned by the Brits and then the Turks before that for 600 years. Maybe this is the kind of shit your buddies at StormFront agree with.

So the British "owned" Palestine, did they?

Are you sure?

 

[Saigon]

Palestinians were known to be Jews only up until the late 1960's

Is this the single most hilariously confused statement ever posted on this board?

It's certainly in my Top 5!!

 

[Artevelde]

Artevelde -

True, but Palestine comes about as close to being a country as it is possible to be - it has a legitimate government, observer status at the UN, and even plays in the World Cup football! The Palestine Authority is a legal entity, and is the legitimate legal custodian (so to speak) of the West Bank until a full and final settlement can be achived.

But legally, that isn't really the issue. The issue for Israel is that it has no legal rights beyond its own legally recognised borders. It has no more legal right to erect buildings, roads or walls in Ramallah than Finland would in Moscow.

The Palestinian territories come nowhere near to being a country and the PA is not the government of a sovereign state.

States erect buldings and structures outside their territory all the time.

And an occupying power, which Israel is in the West Bank, has a lot of rights and responsibilities.

 

[Artevelde]

Jericho is a Hebrew name. It's even documented in the Old Testament. Get you head out of your ass. There was no such thing as Palestine other than it meant the Roman name for Israel. Even up to 1400 years ago, you beloved Mohammad mentions Israel and it's people but never a Palestine. Ever wonder why? Was Mohammad a Zionist? Palestinians were known to be Jews only up until the late 1960's. Nowhere in your link does it tie Jericho to those Arabs that call themselves Palestinians. They are recent invadors from neighboring Arab countries, and genetically no different. The only people with real ties to the land are Jews, you dipshit. There are hundreds of thousands of archeological sites and artifacts that proof conclusively the existence of an Israel and it's history. The Arabs can't come up with ONE Arab Muslim artifact or site that ties Arabs to that land. You are an anti Semetic pig grasping at straws and false Islamic propoganda.

Roudy -

If you do actually address what I posted, I'll be sure to respond to it.

The history of the term 'Palestine' isn't disputed here - as I have explained several times, by your own definition it is older than the terms 'Germany' or 'Italy' and yet you do not question their legitimacy. Italy is a legitimate state because the people we now called Italians can trace their ancestry back on that land for thousands of years - just as Palestinians can.

As stated earlier, genetic testing has proved beyond any shadow of a doubt that modern day Palestinians are directly linked to their ancestors from 3,000 years back.

Until you understand and accept this, you will never get to Square One of this debate.

This really is fairly ridiculous. Your contention that the population of countries remains unchanged for thousands or years is so a-historical that it's farcical. And that goes for Italy just as well as for the Holy Land.

 

[Artevelde]

Palestine isn't another country you fucking idiot. It never was. It was a region owned by the Brits and then the Turks before that for 600 years. Maybe this is the kind of shit your buddies at StormFront agree with.

So the British "owned" Palestine, did they?

Are you sure?

The Palestine was a British Mandate territory, yes.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Palestine isn't another country you fucking idiot. It never was. It was a region owned by the Brits and then the Turks before that for 600 years. Maybe this is the kind of shit your buddies at StormFront agree with.

So the British "owned" Palestine, did they?

Are you sure?

The Palestine was a British Mandate territory, yes.

Indeed, and a mandate is an administrative not an ownership position. Palestine exists as a separate entity from the mandate and continues to exist without it.

 

[Lipush]

There is no such thing as Palestine.

 

[P F Tinmore]

There is no such thing as Palestine.

Article I

With a view to promoting the return to permanent peace in Palestine and in recognition of the importance in this regard of mutual assurances concerning the future military operations of the Parties, the following principles, which shall be fully observed by both Parties during the Armistice, are hereby affirmed:

The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949

Hmmm, it was still there in 1949.

I think someone has been pulling your leg.

 

[Lipush]

There is no such thing as Palestine.

Article I

With a view to promoting the return to permanent peace in Palestine and in recognition of the importance in this regard of mutual assurances concerning the future military operations of the Parties, the following principles, which shall be fully observed by both Parties during the Armistice, are hereby affirmed:

The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949

Hmmm, it was still there in 1949.

I think someone has been pulling your leg.

I could say the same thing to you

 

[Artevelde]

So the British "owned" Palestine, did they?

Are you sure?

The Palestine was a British Mandate territory, yes.

Indeed, and a mandate is an administrative not an ownership position. Palestine exists as a separate entity from the mandate and continues to exist without it.

Lying really is a must with you hey. Of course Palestine didn't exist as a separate sovereign entity. And the British exercised full sovereign control over this mandate area, until it was transferred to the sovereign control of Israel and Jordan.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The Palestine was a British Mandate territory, yes.

Indeed, and a mandate is an administrative not an ownership position. Palestine exists as a separate entity from the mandate and continues to exist without it.

Lying really is a must with you hey. Of course Palestine didn't exist as a separate sovereign entity. And the British exercised full sovereign control over this mandate area, until it was transferred to the sovereign control of Israel and Jordan.

When did the mandate transfer sovereignty to Israel?

Documents please.

 

[P F Tinmore]

There is no such thing as Palestine.

Article I

With a view to promoting the return to permanent peace in Palestine and in recognition of the importance in this regard of mutual assurances concerning the future military operations of the Parties, the following principles, which shall be fully observed by both Parties during the Armistice, are hereby affirmed:

The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949

Hmmm, it was still there in 1949.

I think someone has been pulling your leg.

I could say the same thing to you

I posted a legal document confirming my position.

Where are your documents?

 

[Artevelde]

Indeed, and a mandate is an administrative not an ownership position. Palestine exists as a separate entity from the mandate and continues to exist without it.

Lying really is a must with you hey. Of course Palestine didn't exist as a separate sovereign entity. And the British exercised full sovereign control over this mandate area, until it was transferred to the sovereign control of Israel and Jordan.

When did the mandate transfer sovereignty to Israel?

Documents please.

When Israel as a sovereign and internationally recognized state established itself on part of the territory of the former British mandate.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Lying really is a must with you hey. Of course Palestine didn't exist as a separate sovereign entity. And the British exercised full sovereign control over this mandate area, until it was transferred to the sovereign control of Israel and Jordan.

When did the mandate transfer sovereignty to Israel?

Documents please.

When Israel as a sovereign and internationally recognized state established itself on part of the territory of the former British mandate.

So, where are the documents to back up what you say?

When did the mandate transfer sovereignty to Israel?

 

[Artevelde]

When did the mandate transfer sovereignty to Israel?

Documents please.

When Israel as a sovereign and internationally recognized state established itself on part of the territory of the former British mandate.

So, where are the documents to back up what you say?

When did the mandate transfer sovereignty to Israel?

Only in your phantasy world does the Israeli sovereign state not exist. You are pathetic.

 

[P F Tinmore]

When Israel as a sovereign and internationally recognized state established itself on part of the territory of the former British mandate.

So, where are the documents to back up what you say?

When did the mandate transfer sovereignty to Israel?

Only in your phantasy world does the Israeli sovereign state not exist. You are pathetic.

Still no documents?

What you say must be just propaganda crap.