What Isael can do to save itself -?

[JStone]

Oh, not that palistanian littérature ordurière about land again. But, as luck would have it I'm here to set the facts straight:

• 7% of the land of the west palestine was owned by jews.
• 7-8% was owned by absentee landowners - arab efendi clans.
• 16% was owned by churches and other foreign entities.
• The remainder - what?! 70%! - was state lands, owned first by the sultan and later by the Govt of Palestine.

So, illegal arab immigrants had to have some land to cry land, first, and we aren't buying their bridges, of course.

ima , how do you figure Arab owned the lands if those lands were never under their sovereignty ?

Besides , if you start a war you must consider the cost of failure , and that is exactly what happened to the Palestinian Arabs.

Back in 1948 ,They were offered a sovereign state in the borders of what they claim they want not , instead of accepting the offer they choose to fight and try to kick the Jews out, this choice cost them dearly and instead of a sovereign state , they were left with nothing .

When the Ottoman Empire took over Palestine one of the things they did was to grab all the land from the owners. These former owners then had "land rights." These rights could be bought, sold, or inherited. Of course they had to pay lease to the empire to keep these rights. It was similar to a property tax. Keep paying or lose your land.

At the fall of the empire these lands were ceded to the government of Palestine and ownership was being restored to those who owned the rights.

Wrong, as usual, birdbrain.

Palestine never existed under the Ottoman Empire. The Romans invented the word palestine to rename Israel during the Roman Empire. The British reinvented palestine after WW II.

In terms of property law, Jews have prior possession of Israel founded 3000 years ago. So-called palestinians were invented a few years ago.

Cambridge University Press

In Ottoman times, no political entity called Palestine existed. After the collapse of the Ottoman Empire at the end of the First World War, European boundary makers began to take greater interest in defining territorial limits for Palestine. Only since the 1920s has Palestine had formally delimited boundaries, though these have remained subject to repeated change and a source of bitter dispute.
Palestine Boundaries 1833–1947 - Cambridge Archive Editions

Biblical Historian and Scholar Dr. Paula Fredriksen, Professor of Religion, Boston University; Ph.D, History of Religion, Princeton University; Diploma in Theology, Oxford University

The Judean revolt against Rome was led by [Jewish rebel] Bar Kochba in 132-135 CE. The immediate causes of this rebellion are obscure. Its result was not: [Roman Emperor] Hadrian crushed the revolt and banned Jews from Judea.

The Romans now designated this territory by a political neologism, "Palestine" [a Latin form of "Philistine"], in a deliberate effort to denationalize Jewish/Judean territory. And, finally, Hadrian eradicated Jewish Jerusalem, erecting upon its ruins a new pagan city, Aelia Capitolina.
http://www.randomhouse.com/book/55994/jesus-of-nazareth-king-of-the-jews-by-paula-fredriksen

 

[ima]

ima , how do you figure Arab owned the lands if those lands were never under their sovereignty ?

Besides , if you start a war you must consider the cost of failure , and that is exactly what happened to the Palestinian Arabs.

Back in 1948 ,They were offered a sovereign state in the borders of what they claim they want not , instead of accepting the offer they choose to fight and try to kick the Jews out, this choice cost them dearly and instead of a sovereign state , they were left with nothing .

Whomever's sovereignty that land was under matters little, people were forced to leave their land/houses under threat of getting killed and were never allowed to return.

I agree about the cost of war, but in their minds, the war's not over, and in this new version of a world war, the new Hitler's about to develop nukes and bring the ovens to Israel. I'd be worried if I was anywhere in Israel, very worried. (and don't get me wrong, this isn't even a personal opinion, it's just observing facts).

Whomever's sovereignty that land was under matters little, people were forced to leave their land/houses under threat of getting killed and were never allowed to return.

Many left voluntarily as I stated before and in other posts.

War is ugly, if there never was a war there never would be casualties and the world would be beautiful.
When Arabs attacked Israel they didn't take in account the possibility of defeat, it was their mistake , and they are suffering the consequences.

I agree about the cost of war, but in their minds, the war's not over, and in this new version of a world war, the new Hitler's about to develop nukes and bring the ovens to Israel. I'd be worried if I was anywhere in Israel, very worried. (and don't get me wrong, this isn't even a personal opinion, it's just observing facts).

Two points , first as long as in their minds the war is not over , and they choose to continue fighting in order to destroy Israel instead of building their own future I don't see how their life could get better.

Second , If the new Hitlers about to develop nukes , Israel is not the only one that should be worried.
As you remember ,genocide of Jews was only part of Hitlers plan , the other part was conquering everyone else.
I don't think that the plan of fundamental Islam is much different , so if fundamental Islam get nukes everyone who is not Muslim should be worried.

I don't think that they care if their life gets better, they just want their land back. Plus I'd add that no one has really ever offered them anything concrete in return for their land, like give them each $1 million with a one way ticket to any other arab country and most of them would probably take the money and run. Like sparky says, in the long run it's a good deal.

As for being afraid of Islamic nukes, personally, I think that when they whack Israel, they'll calm down. And if they don't: K-A-B-O-O-M! lol.

 

[Ropey]

Whomever's sovereignty that land was under matters little, people were forced to leave their land/houses under threat of getting killed and were never allowed to return.

I agree about the cost of war, but in their minds, the war's not over, and in this new version of a world war, the new Hitler's about to develop nukes and bring the ovens to Israel. I'd be worried if I was anywhere in Israel, very worried. (and don't get me wrong, this isn't even a personal opinion, it's just observing facts).

Many left voluntarily as I stated before and in other posts.

War is ugly, if there never was a war there never would be casualties and the world would be beautiful.
When Arabs attacked Israel they didn't take in account the possibility of defeat, it was their mistake , and they are suffering the consequences.

I agree about the cost of war, but in their minds, the war's not over, and in this new version of a world war, the new Hitler's about to develop nukes and bring the ovens to Israel. I'd be worried if I was anywhere in Israel, very worried. (and don't get me wrong, this isn't even a personal opinion, it's just observing facts).

Two points , first as long as in their minds the war is not over , and they choose to continue fighting in order to destroy Israel instead of building their own future I don't see how their life could get better.

Second , If the new Hitlers about to develop nukes , Israel is not the only one that should be worried.
As you remember ,genocide of Jews was only part of Hitlers plan , the other part was conquering everyone else.
I don't think that the plan of fundamental Islam is much different , so if fundamental Islam get nukes everyone who is not Muslim should be worried.

I don't think that they care if their life gets better, they just want their land back. Plus I'd add that no one has really ever offered them anything concrete in return for their land, like give them each $1 million with a one way ticket to any other arab country and most of them would probably take the money and run. Like sparky says, in the long run it's a good deal.

As for being afraid of Islamic nukes, personally, I think that when they whack Israel, they'll calm down. And if they don't: K-A-B-O-O-M! loll.

You say that Israel will not worry about Islamic nukes once they are nuked. Then you look at the deaths as a humor.

Your intent is clear. Death and destruction follow your mindful intentions and you find it humorous. It's death that you follow.

 

[ima]

Many left voluntarily as I stated before and in other posts.

War is ugly, if there never was a war there never would be casualties and the world would be beautiful.
When Arabs attacked Israel they didn't take in account the possibility of defeat, it was their mistake , and they are suffering the consequences.



Two points , first as long as in their minds the war is not over , and they choose to continue fighting in order to destroy Israel instead of building their own future I don't see how their life could get better.

Second , If the new Hitlers about to develop nukes , Israel is not the only one that should be worried.
As you remember ,genocide of Jews was only part of Hitlers plan , the other part was conquering everyone else.
I don't think that the plan of fundamental Islam is much different , so if fundamental Islam get nukes everyone who is not Muslim should be worried.

I don't think that they care if their life gets better, they just want their land back. Plus I'd add that no one has really ever offered them anything concrete in return for their land, like give them each $1 million with a one way ticket to any other arab country and most of them would probably take the money and run. Like sparky says, in the long run it's a good deal.

As for being afraid of Islamic nukes, personally, I think that when they whack Israel, they'll calm down. And if they don't: K-A-B-O-O-M! lloll.

You say that Israel will not worry about Islamic nukes once they are nuked. Then you look at the death as a humor.

Your intent is clear. Death and destruction follow your mindful intentions and you find it humorous.

I never said "that Israel will not worry about Islamic nukes once they are nuked", re-read my post.

Death and destruction is how Israel was created, just saying.

 

[JStone]

Barack Obama...:

Israel is a sovereign state, and the historic homeland of the Jewish people.

It should be clear to all that efforts to chip away at Israel's legitimacy will only be met by the unshakeable opposition of the United States.
Remarks by the President to the United Nations General Assembly | The White House

PBS: Civilization and the Jews

The interaction of Jewish history and Western civilization successively assumed different forms. In the Biblical and Ancient periods, Israel was an integral part of the Near Eastern and classical world, which gave birth to Western civilization. It shared the traditions of ancient Mesopotamia and the rest of that world with regard to it’s own beginning; it benefited from the decline of Egypt and the other great Near Eastern empires to emerge as a nation in it’s own right; it asserted it’s claim to the divinely promised Land of Israel
PBS - Heritage

Harvard University Semitic Museum: The Houses of Ancient Israel The Houses of Ancient Israel § Semitic Museum

In archaeological terms The Houses of Ancient Israel: Domestic, Royal, Divine focuses on the Iron Age (1200-586 B.C.E.). Iron I (1200-1000 B.C.E.) represents the premonarchical period. Iron II (1000-586 B.C.E.) was the time of kings. Uniting the tribal coalitions of Israel and Judah in the tenth century B.C.E., David and Solomon ruled over an expanding realm. After Solomon's death (c. 930 B.C.E.) Israel and Judah separated into two kingdoms.
Israel was led at times by strong kings, Omri and Ahab in the ninth century B.C.E. and Jereboam II in the eighth.

Harvard University Semitic Museum: Jerusalem During The Reign Of King Hezekiah--New Exhibition At The Semitic Museum Re-Creates Numerous Aspects Of Ancient Israel Harvard Gazette: Jerusalem during the reign of King Hezekiah

The Semitic Museum has installed a new exhibition that brings the world of biblical Israel into vivid, three-dimensional reality. "The Houses of Ancient Israel: Domestic, Royal, Divine" immerses the viewer in Israelite daily life around the time of King Hezekiah (8th century B.C.), creating an experiential environment based on the latest archaeological, textual, and historical research.
The centerpiece of the exhibition is a full-scale Israelite house, open on one side, filled with authentic ancient artifacts that show how life was lived by common inhabitants of ancient Jerusalem. Agricultural tools, a cooking area, and a stall occupied by a single, scruffy ram fill the ground floor of the cube-shaped, mud-brick structure, which, thankfully, is not olfactorily authentic. The upper story, reached by a ladder, is devoted to eating and sleeping.

Yale University Press: The Archaeology of Ancient Israel The Archaeology of Ancient Israel - Ben-Tor, Amnon; Greenberg, R. - Yale University Press

In this lavishly illustrated book some of Israel's foremost archaeologists present a thorough, up-to-date, and readily accessible survey of early life in the land of the Bible, from the Neolithic era (eighth millennium B.C.E.) to the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the First Temple in 586 B.C.E. It will be a delightful and informative resource for anyone who has ever wanted to know more about the religious, scientific, or historical background of the region.

PBS Nova ...

In the banks of the Nile in southern Egypt in 1896, British archaeologisit Flinders Petrie unearthed one of the most important discoveries in biblical archaeology known as the Merneptah Stele. Merneptah's stele announces the entrance on the world stage of a People named Israel.

The Merneptah Stele is powerful evidence that a People called the Israelites are living in Canaan over 3000 years ago

Dr. Donald Redford, Egyptologist and archaeologist: The Merneptah Stele is priceless evidence for the presence of an ethnical group called Israel in Canaan.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yvg2EZAEw5c]1/13 The Bible's Buried Secrets (NOVA PBS) - YouTube[/ame]

 

[docmauser1]

The Palestinians did not start that war and they did not lose that war. Israel has won nothing.

Cool. Indeed, we've always maintained there's no occupation, it's just arab assholes being occupational, of course.

 

[JStone]

Quote: Originally Posted by P F Tinmore
The Palestinians did not start that war and they did not lose that war. Israel has won nothing

"Palestinians": Other Arabs Who Can't Accomplish Anything In Life And Would Rather Wrap Themselves In The Seductive Melodrama Of Eternal Struggle And Death

Massachussets Institute of Technology [MIT]

As a world leader in science and technology, Israel excels in such areas as genetics, medicine, agriculture, computer sciences, electronics, optics, and engineering. Scientists at Israeli universities such as Bar Ilan University, Ben Gurion University, Haifa University, Hebrew University, The Technion--Israel Institute of Technology, Tel Aviv University and the Weizmann Institute of Science are pioneers in areas such as stem cell-based tissue engineering, nanotechnology, high-resolution electron microscopy, and solar energy. Israeli companies have developed such diverse products as the first anti-virus package, technologies that allow you to leave voice mail on mobile phones, and stents that save lives by keeping the arteries to the heart open.

MISTI MIT-Israel

Warren Buffett...

We believe generally in the United States, we believe in ourselves and what a young country can achieve. Israel, since 1948, now a major factor in commerce and in the world. It's a smaller replica of what has been accomplished here and I think Americans admire that. They feel good about societies that are on the move.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaN_2nFqFtI]Warren Buffet Supports the U.S.-Israel Relationship - YouTube[/ame]

 

[docmauser1]

Oh, not that palistanian littérature ordurière about land again. But, as luck would have it I'm here to set the facts straight:

• 7% of the land of the west palestine was owned by jews.
• 7-8% was owned by absentee landowners - arab efendi clans.
• 16% was owned by churches and other foreign entities.
• The remainder - what?! 70%! - was state lands, owned first by the sultan and later by the Govt of Palestine.

So, illegal arab immigrants had to have some land to cry land, first, and we aren't buying their bridges, of course.

ima , how do you figure Arab owned the lands if those lands were never under their sovereignty ?
Besides , if you start a war you must consider the cost of failure , and that is exactly what happened to the Palestinian Arabs.
Back in 1948 ,They were offered a sovereign state in the borders of what they claim they want not , instead of accepting the offer they choose to fight and try to kick the Jews out, this choice cost them dearly and instead of a sovereign state , they were left with nothing .

When the Ottoman Empire took over Palestine one of the things they did was to grab all the land from the owners. These former owners then had "land rights."...

Of course, not. Major illegal arab immigration hadn't yet happened, and illegal arab immigrants hadn't been known for land ownership, provided they didn't steal it in the first place, of course.

At the fall of the empire these lands were ceded to the government of Palestine and ownership was being restored to those who owned the rights.

That's why the british govt. of palestine owned 70% of it, of course.

 

[Wolverine1984]

Whomever's sovereignty that land was under matters little, people were forced to leave their land/houses under threat of getting killed and were never allowed to return.

I agree about the cost of war, but in their minds, the war's not over, and in this new version of a world war, the new Hitler's about to develop nukes and bring the ovens to Israel. I'd be worried if I was anywhere in Israel, very worried. (and don't get me wrong, this isn't even a personal opinion, it's just observing facts).

Many left voluntarily as I stated before and in other posts.

War is ugly, if there never was a war there never would be casualties and the world would be beautiful.
When Arabs attacked Israel they didn't take in account the possibility of defeat, it was their mistake , and they are suffering the consequences.

I agree about the cost of war, but in their minds, the war's not over, and in this new version of a world war, the new Hitler's about to develop nukes and bring the ovens to Israel. I'd be worried if I was anywhere in Israel, very worried. (and don't get me wrong, this isn't even a personal opinion, it's just observing facts).

Two points , first as long as in their minds the war is not over , and they choose to continue fighting in order to destroy Israel instead of building their own future I don't see how their life could get better.

Second , If the new Hitlers about to develop nukes , Israel is not the only one that should be worried.
As you remember ,genocide of Jews was only part of Hitlers plan , the other part was conquering everyone else.
I don't think that the plan of fundamental Islam is much different , so if fundamental Islam get nukes everyone who is not Muslim should be worried.

I don't think that they care if their life gets better, they just want their land back. Plus I'd add that no one has really ever offered them anything concrete in return for their land, like give them each $1 million with a one way ticket to any other arab country and most of them would probably take the money and run. Like sparky says, in the long run it's a good deal.

As for being afraid of Islamic nukes, personally, I think that when they whack Israel, they'll calm down. And if they don't: K-A-B-O-O-M! lol.

I don't think that they care if their life gets better, they just want their land back.

We are back to square zero again ... How do you figure it's "their" land ? They never have sovereignty over the land it always belonged to someone else.
Another point is , while "their" land was under Egyptian and Jordanian rule they suddenly didn't want "their" land back ... They only wanted it back while Israel controlled it ...
So the conclusion form this is quite simple,it's not that they want "their" land back , they just want the Jews out...

Plus I'd add that no one has really ever offered them anything concrete in return for their land

That contradicts your previous statement :"I don't think that they care if their life gets better, they just want their land back".

As for being afraid of Islamic nukes, personally, I think that when they whack Israel, they'll calm down. And if they don't: K-A-B-O-O-M!

Exactly , "K-A-B-O-O-M! " to you and anything you hold dear.

Death and destruction is how Israel was created, just saying.

So the USA was created using unicorns butterflies and care bears then ?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Many left voluntarily as I stated before and in other posts.

War is ugly, if there never was a war there never would be casualties and the world would be beautiful.
When Arabs attacked Israel they didn't take in account the possibility of defeat, it was their mistake , and they are suffering the consequences.

Two points , first as long as in their minds the war is not over , and they choose to continue fighting in order to destroy Israel instead of building their own future I don't see how their life could get better.

Second , If the new Hitlers about to develop nukes , Israel is not the only one that should be worried.
As you remember ,genocide of Jews was only part of Hitlers plan , the other part was conquering everyone else.
I don't think that the plan of fundamental Islam is much different , so if fundamental Islam get nukes everyone who is not Muslim should be worried.

I don't think that they care if their life gets better, they just want their land back. Plus I'd add that no one has really ever offered them anything concrete in return for their land, like give them each $1 million with a one way ticket to any other arab country and most of them would probably take the money and run. Like sparky says, in the long run it's a good deal.

As for being afraid of Islamic nukes, personally, I think that when they whack Israel, they'll calm down. And if they don't: K-A-B-O-O-M! lol.

We are back to square zero again ... How do you figure it's "their" land ? They never have sovereignty over the land it always belonged to someone else.
Another point is , while "their" land was under Egyptian and Jordanian rule they suddenly didn't want "their" land back ... They only wanted it back while Israel controlled it ...
So the conclusion form this is quite simple,it's not that they want "their" land back , they just want the Jews out...

That contradicts your previous statement :"I don't think that they care if their life gets better, they just want their land back".

As for being afraid of Islamic nukes, personally, I think that when they whack Israel, they'll calm down. And if they don't: K-A-B-O-O-M!

Exactly , "K-A-B-O-O-M! " to you and anything you hold dear.

Death and destruction is how Israel was created, just saying.

So the USA was created using unicorns butterflies and care bears then ?

Another point is , while "their" land was under Egyptian and Jordanian rule they suddenly didn't want "their" land back ...

Of course that is not true. The Palestinians worked to retrieve their land through the '50s and "60s. And through to today.

 

[ima]

We are back to square zero again ... How do you figure it's "their" land ? They never have sovereignty over the land it always belonged to someone else.
Another point is , while "their" land was under Egyptian and Jordanian rule they suddenly didn't want "their" land back ... They only wanted it back while Israel controlled it ...
So the conclusion form this is quite simple,it's not that they want "their" land back , they just want the Jews out...

That contradicts your previous statement :"I don't think that they care if their life gets better, they just want their land back".

As for being afraid of Islamic nukes, personally, I think that when they whack Israel, they'll calm down. And if they don't: K-A-B-O-O-M!

Exactly , "K-A-B-O-O-M! " to you and anything you hold dear.

Death and destruction is how Israel was created, just saying.

So the USA was created using unicorns butterflies and care bears then ?

"Their" land meaning the people who owned houses and land, not which country they belonged to, that's irrelevant whether they were Jordanians, Egyptians or whatever even if there was no country there at the time, I'm talking about the actual people who got kicked off their land and weren't allowed to return. So what if they were even stateless, Israel could have let them keep their land and houses, or like I've mentioned, the Jews could have bought them out one by one. Of course they're going to be pissed and want their land back, wouldn't you?

At least you agree that israel was created by death and destruction. How the US was created might make a good thread on its own, but for this discussion, it's irrelevant.

As for Iran hitting the US with a nuke? Not in my lifetime.
Iran hitting Israel with a nuke? Possibly in my lifetime. Would it matter to me? probably not, although I would have to buy an electric car!

 

[JStone]

Jews have owned houses in Israel since Jews created Israel 3000 years ago where Jews have lived and ruled to today.

Harvard Semitic Museum: The Houses of Ancient Israel The Houses of Ancient Israel § Semitic Museum

In archaeological terms The Houses of Ancient Israel: Domestic, Royal, Divine focuses on the Iron Age (1200-586 B.C.E.). Iron I (1200-1000 B.C.E.) represents the premonarchical period. Iron II (1000-586 B.C.E.) was the time of kings. Uniting the tribal coalitions of Israel and Judah in the tenth century B.C.E., David and Solomon ruled over an expanding realm. After Solomon's death (c. 930 B.C.E.) Israel and Judah separated into two kingdoms.

Israel was led at times by strong kings, Omri and Ahab in the ninth century B.C.E. and Jereboam II in the eighth.

Harvard University Semitic Museum: Jerusalem During The Reign Of King Hezekiah--New Exhibition At The Semitic Museum Re-Creates Numerous Aspects Of Ancient Israel Harvard Gazette: Jerusalem during the reign of King Hezekiah

The Semitic Museum has installed a new exhibition that brings the world of biblical Israel into vivid, three-dimensional reality. "The Houses of Ancient Israel: Domestic, Royal, Divine" immerses the viewer in Israelite daily life around the time of King Hezekiah (8th century B.C.), creating an experiential environment based on the latest archaeological, textual, and historical research.

The centerpiece of the exhibition is a full-scale Israelite house, open on one side, filled with authentic ancient artifacts that show how life was lived by common inhabitants of ancient Jerusalem. Agricultural tools, a cooking area, and a stall occupied by a single, scruffy ram fill the ground floor of the cube-shaped, mud-brick structure, which, thankfully, is not olfactorily authentic. The upper story, reached by a ladder, is devoted to eating and sleeping.

 

[toomuchtime_]

We are back to square zero again ... How do you figure it's "their" land ? They never have sovereignty over the land it always belonged to someone else.
Another point is , while "their" land was under Egyptian and Jordanian rule they suddenly didn't want "their" land back ... They only wanted it back while Israel controlled it ...
So the conclusion form this is quite simple,it's not that they want "their" land back , they just want the Jews out...

That contradicts your previous statement :"I don't think that they care if their life gets better, they just want their land back".

As for being afraid of Islamic nukes, personally, I think that when they whack Israel, they'll calm down. And if they don't: K-A-B-O-O-M!

Exactly , "K-A-B-O-O-M! " to you and anything you hold dear.

Death and destruction is how Israel was created, just saying.

So the USA was created using unicorns butterflies and care bears then ?

"Their" land meaning the people who owned houses and land, not which country they belonged to, that's irrelevant whether they were Jordanians, Egyptians or whatever even if there was no country there at the time, I'm talking about the actual people who got kicked off their land and weren't allowed to return. So what if they were even stateless, Israel could have let them keep their land and houses, or like I've mentioned, the Jews could have bought them out one by one. Of course they're going to be pissed and want their land back, wouldn't you?

At least you agree that israel was created by death and destruction. How the US was created might make a good thread on its own, but for this discussion, it's irrelevant.

As for Iran hitting the US with a nuke? Not in my lifetime.
Iran hitting Israel with a nuke? Possibly in my lifetime. Would it matter to me? probably not, although I would have to buy an electric car!

You've packed a lot of misinformation into a short post. First of all, only about 20% of the Arabs were forced out of Israel in the War of Independence and nearly all of these were from villages that had been launching attacks on Jews for years; they were at war with the new state, they lost and they fled. The other 80% left for a variety of reason, none of which had anything to do with Israeli actions against them. Take two of the largest Arab communities, Safed and Haifa. In Safed Arabs attacked the Jewish quarter and drove all the Jews out of the city in anticipation of the announcement of statehood. After a
few days, they became fearful of a retaliation by Jewish forces and much of the Arab population fled out of fear they would be punished for their crimes, but no Jewish forces were approaching the city. In Haifa, both the Jewish leaders and the British police assured the Arab leaders that they had nothing to fear from the Jews, but without explanation the Arab leaders demanded buses to take them to Syria and nearly the entire Arab population left. It is at least inaccurate to characterize the Arab exodus from Israel as the Arabs being driven out.

It is also inaccurate to claim the Arabs who left were not allowed back in or were not eligible for compensation for property they may have lost.

(a) The owners of acquired property are entitled to compensation therefore from the Development Authority. The compensation shall be given in money, unless otherwise agreed between the owners and the Development Authority. The amount of compensation shall be fixed by agreement between the Development Authority and the owners or, in the absence of agreement, by the Court, as hereinafter provided.

(b) Where the acquired property was used for agriculture and was the main source of livelihood of its owner, and he has no other land sufficient for his livelihood, the Development Authority shall, on his demand, offer him other property, either for ownership or for lease, as full or partial compensation. A competent authority, to be appointed for this purpose by the Minister, shall, in accordance with rules to be prescribed by regulations, determine the category, location, area, and, in the case of lease, period of lease (not less than 49 years) and the value of the offered property, both for the purpose of calculating the compensation and for determination of the sufficiency of such property for a livelihood.

Israeli land and property laws - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

_5713-1953

To claim compensation under this law, an Arab who had owned property in Israel would have had to apply to the Israeli government as an individual, in effect, acknowledging the jurisdiction of that government. You will not find more than a few cases of Arabs who had left Israel and then applied for the compensation they were entitled to under Israeli law.

Similarly, Arabs who wanted to return to Israel had the right to apply to the government as individuals, again, effectively acknowledging the jurisdiction of that government, and had they applied, many of them would likely have been given permission to return. For example, During Operation BaraK several villages north of Gaza were evacuated by Israeli forces in anticipation of an Egyptian advance through that area, and the Arab villagers fled to Egypt. After the war, the commander in charge was heavily criticized in Israel for this action because it was not believed these villagers would have hampered military operations if they had been allowed to stay. Had these villagers applied as individuals to return, it is likely
permission would have been granted, but there is no record of any such applications.

Israel was not created by death and destruction. It was created by preventing the massive death and destruction intended by the Arabs.

Abdul Rahman Azzam, Secretary General of the Arab League on the eve of the 1948 war:

"I personally wish that the Jews do not drive us to this war, as this will be a war of extermination and momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Tartar massacre[10] or the Crusader wars. I believe that the number of volunteers from outside Palestine will be larger than Palestine's Arab population, for I know that volunteers will be arriving to us from [as far as] India, Afghanistan, and China to win the honor of martyrdom for the sake of Palestine … You might be surprised to learn that hundreds of Englishmen expressed their wish to volunteer in the Arab armies to fight the Jews.

"This war will be distinguished by three serious matters. First—faith: as each fighter deems his death on behalf of Palestine as the shortest road to paradise; second, [the war] will be an opportunity for vast plunder. Third, it will be impossible to contain the zealous volunteers arriving from all corners of the world to avenge the martyrdom of the Palestine Arabs, and viewing the war as dignifying every Arab and every Muslim throughout the world …

"The Arab is superior to the Jew in that he accepts defeat with a smile: Should the Jews defeat us in the first battle, we will defeat them in the second or the third battle … or the final one… whereas one defeat will shatter the Jew's morale! Most desert Arabians take pleasure in fighting. I recall being tasked with mediating a truce in a desert war (in which I
participated) that lasted for nine months…While en route to sign the truce, I was approached by some of my comrades in arms who told me: 'Shame on you! You are a man of the people, so how could you wish to end the war … How can we live without war?' This is because war gives the Bedouin a sense of happiness, bliss, and security that peace does not provide! …

"I warned the Jewish leaders I met in London to desist from their policy,[11] telling them that the Arab was the mightiest of soldiers and the day he draws his weapon, he will not lay it down until firing the last bullet in the battle, and we will fire the last shot …"

He [Azzam] ended his conversation with me by saying: "I foresee the consequences of this bloody war. I see before me its horrible battles. I can picture its dead, injured, and victims … But my conscience is clear … For we are not attacking but defending ourselves, and we are not aggressors but defenders against an aggression! …"

Azzam's Genocidal Threat :: Middle East Quarterly

 

[sparky]

aw c',mon, nobody liked mt Mars fix?

one small pita for mankind mitigated, on large step for theoctraical imperialism......~S~

 

[ima]

We are back to square zero again ... How do you figure it's "their" land ? They never have sovereignty over the land it always belonged to someone else.
Another point is , while "their" land was under Egyptian and Jordanian rule they suddenly didn't want "their" land back ... They only wanted it back while Israel controlled it ...
So the conclusion form this is quite simple,it's not that they want "their" land back , they just want the Jews out...

That contradicts your previous statement :"I don't think that they care if their life gets better, they just want their land back".

Exactly , "K-A-B-O-O-M! " to you and anything you hold dear.

So the USA was created using unicorns butterflies and care bears then ?

"Their" land meaning the people who owned houses and land, not which country they belonged to, that's irrelevant whether they were Jordanians, Egyptians or whatever even if there was no country there at the time, I'm talking about the actual people who got kicked off their land and weren't allowed to return. So what if they were even stateless, Israel could have let them keep their land and houses, or like I've mentioned, the Jews could have bought them out one by one. Of course they're going to be pissed and want their land back, wouldn't you?

At least you agree that israel was created by death and destruction. How the US was created might make a good thread on its own, but for this discussion, it's irrelevant.

As for Iran hitting the US with a nuke? Not in my lifetime.
Iran hitting Israel with a nuke? Possibly in my lifetime. Would it matter to me? probably not, although I would have to buy an electric car!

You've packed a lot of misinformation into a short post. First of all, only about 20% of the Arabs were forced out of Israel in the War of Independence and nearly all of these were from villages that had been launching attacks on Jews for years; they were at war with the new state, they lost and they fled. The other 80% left for a variety of reason, none of which had anything to do with Israeli actions against them. Take two of the largest Arab communities, Safed and Haifa. In Safed Arabs attacked the Jewish quarter and drove all the Jews out of the city in anticipation of the announcement of statehood. After a
few days, they became fearful of a retaliation by Jewish forces and much of the Arab population fled out of fear they would be punished for their crimes, but no Jewish forces were approaching the city. In Haifa, both the Jewish leaders and the British police assured the Arab leaders that they had nothing to fear from the Jews, but without explanation the Arab leaders demanded buses to take them to Syria and nearly the entire Arab population left. It is at least inaccurate to characterize the Arab exodus from Israel as the Arabs being driven out.

It is also inaccurate to claim the Arabs who left were not allowed back in or were not eligible for compensation for property they may have lost.

(a) The owners of acquired property are entitled to compensation therefore from the Development Authority. The compensation shall be given in money, unless otherwise agreed between the owners and the Development Authority. The amount of compensation shall be fixed by agreement between the Development Authority and the owners or, in the absence of agreement, by the Court, as hereinafter provided.

(b) Where the acquired property was used for agriculture and was the main source of livelihood of its owner, and he has no other land sufficient for his livelihood, the Development Authority shall, on his demand, offer him other property, either for ownership or for lease, as full or partial compensation. A competent authority, to be appointed for this purpose by the Minister, shall, in accordance with rules to be prescribed by regulations, determine the category, location, area, and, in the case of lease, period of lease (not less than 49 years) and the value of the offered property, both for the purpose of calculating the compensation and for determination of the sufficiency of such property for a livelihood.

Israeli land and property laws - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

_5713-1953

To claim compensation under this law, an Arab who had owned property in Israel would have had to apply to the Israeli government as an individual, in effect, acknowledging the jurisdiction of that government. You will not find more than a few cases of Arabs who had left Israel and then applied for the compensation they were entitled to under Israeli law.

Similarly, Arabs who wanted to return to Israel had the right to apply to the government as individuals, again, effectively acknowledging the jurisdiction of that government, and had they applied, many of them would likely have been given permission to return. For example, During Operation BaraK several villages north of Gaza were evacuated by Israeli forces in anticipation of an Egyptian advance through that area, and the Arab villagers fled to Egypt. After the war, the commander in charge was heavily criticized in Israel for this action because it was not believed these villagers would have hampered military operations if they had been allowed to stay. Had these villagers applied as individuals to return, it is likely
permission would have been granted, but there is no record of any such applications.

Israel was not created by death and destruction. It was created by preventing the massive death and destruction intended by the Arabs.

LOL! Kick them out and then offer them compensation by applying to your attacker for compo, ya sure. And no record of any applications? LOL, no kidding.
You try to make it seem as though the whole process was done in a friendly, courteous and agreeable manner. It couldn't be further from the truth. But please do try again.

 

[JStone]

"Their" land meaning the people who owned houses and land, not which country they belonged to, that's irrelevant whether they were Jordanians, Egyptians or whatever even if there was no country there at the time, I'm talking about the actual people who got kicked off their land and weren't allowed to return. So what if they were even stateless, Israel could have let them keep their land and houses, or like I've mentioned, the Jews could have bought them out one by one. Of course they're going to be pissed and want their land back, wouldn't you?

At least you agree that israel was created by death and destruction. How the US was created might make a good thread on its own, but for this discussion, it's irrelevant.

As for Iran hitting the US with a nuke? Not in my lifetime.
Iran hitting Israel with a nuke? Possibly in my lifetime. Would it matter to me? probably not, although I would have to buy an electric car!

You've packed a lot of misinformation into a short post. First of all, only about 20% of the Arabs were forced out of Israel in the War of Independence and nearly all of these were from villages that had been launching attacks on Jews for years; they were at war with the new state, they lost and they fled. The other 80% left for a variety of reason, none of which had anything to do with Israeli actions against them. Take two of the largest Arab communities, Safed and Haifa. In Safed Arabs attacked the Jewish quarter and drove all the Jews out of the city in anticipation of the announcement of statehood. After a
few days, they became fearful of a retaliation by Jewish forces and much of the Arab population fled out of fear they would be punished for their crimes, but no Jewish forces were approaching the city. In Haifa, both the Jewish leaders and the British police assured the Arab leaders that they had nothing to fear from the Jews, but without explanation the Arab leaders demanded buses to take them to Syria and nearly the entire Arab population left. It is at least inaccurate to characterize the Arab exodus from Israel as the Arabs being driven out.

It is also inaccurate to claim the Arabs who left were not allowed back in or were not eligible for compensation for property they may have lost.

(a) The owners of acquired property are entitled to compensation therefore from the Development Authority. The compensation shall be given in money, unless otherwise agreed between the owners and the Development Authority. The amount of compensation shall be fixed by agreement between the Development Authority and the owners or, in the absence of agreement, by the Court, as hereinafter provided.

(b) Where the acquired property was used for agriculture and was the main source of livelihood of its owner, and he has no other land sufficient for his livelihood, the Development Authority shall, on his demand, offer him other property, either for ownership or for lease, as full or partial compensation. A competent authority, to be appointed for this purpose by the Minister, shall, in accordance with rules to be prescribed by regulations, determine the category, location, area, and, in the case of lease, period of lease (not less than 49 years) and the value of the offered property, both for the purpose of calculating the compensation and for determination of the sufficiency of such property for a livelihood.

Israeli land and property laws - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

_5713-1953

To claim compensation under this law, an Arab who had owned property in Israel would have had to apply to the Israeli government as an individual, in effect, acknowledging the jurisdiction of that government. You will not find more than a few cases of Arabs who had left Israel and then applied for the compensation they were entitled to under Israeli law.

Similarly, Arabs who wanted to return to Israel had the right to apply to the government as individuals, again, effectively acknowledging the jurisdiction of that government, and had they applied, many of them would likely have been given permission to return. For example, During Operation BaraK several villages north of Gaza were evacuated by Israeli forces in anticipation of an Egyptian advance through that area, and the Arab villagers fled to Egypt. After the war, the commander in charge was heavily criticized in Israel for this action because it was not believed these villagers would have hampered military operations if they had been allowed to stay. Had these villagers applied as individuals to return, it is likely
permission would have been granted, but there is no record of any such applications.

Israel was not created by death and destruction. It was created by preventing the massive death and destruction intended by the Arabs.

LOL! Kick them out and then offer them compensation by applying to your attacker for compo, ya sure. And no record of any applications? LOL, no kidding.
You try to make it seem as though the whole process was done in a friendly, courteous and agreeable manner. It couldn't be further from the truth. But please do try again.

Palestininas are Arabs, thus, their homeland is Arabia. Now, how did they wind up in Israel? Magic carpet?

 

[JStone]

Quote: Originally Posted by ima
We are back to square zero again ... How do you figure it's "their" land ?

Real estate law 101: Jews have prior possession of Israel dating back 3000 years when Jewish sovereignty was established, verified by the archaeoligical record. Basic rule of law: First in time is first in right. Jews are the only nation ever established in Israel over 3000 years.

Now, can you provide any archaeological record of any so-called palesteenian civilization in Israel? No, I didn't think so.

Yale University Press: The Archaeology of Ancient Israel

In this lavishly illustrated book some of Israel's foremost archaeologists present a thorough, up-to-date, and readily accessible survey of early life in the land of the Bible, from the Neolithic era (eighth millennium B.C.E.) to the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the First Temple in 586 B.C.E. It will be a delightful and informative resource for anyone who has ever wanted to know more about the religious, scientific, or historical background of the region.

The Archaeology of Ancient Israel - Ben-Tor, Amnon; Greenberg, R. - Yale University Press

 

[toomuchtime_]

"Their" land meaning the people who owned houses and land, not which country they belonged to, that's irrelevant whether they were Jordanians, Egyptians or whatever even if there was no country there at the time, I'm talking about the actual people who got kicked off their land and weren't allowed to return. So what if they were even stateless, Israel could have let them keep their land and houses, or like I've mentioned, the Jews could have bought them out one by one. Of course they're going to be pissed and want their land back, wouldn't you?

At least you agree that israel was created by death and destruction. How the US was created might make a good thread on its own, but for this discussion, it's irrelevant.

As for Iran hitting the US with a nuke? Not in my lifetime.
Iran hitting Israel with a nuke? Possibly in my lifetime. Would it matter to me? probably not, although I would have to buy an electric car!

You've packed a lot of misinformation into a short post. First of all, only about 20% of the Arabs were forced out of Israel in the War of Independence and nearly all of these were from villages that had been launching attacks on Jews for years; they were at war with the new state, they lost and they fled. The other 80% left for a variety of reason, none of which had anything to do with Israeli actions against them. Take two of the largest Arab communities, Safed and Haifa. In Safed Arabs attacked the Jewish quarter and drove all the Jews out of the city in anticipation of the announcement of statehood. After a
few days, they became fearful of a retaliation by Jewish forces and much of the Arab population fled out of fear they would be punished for their crimes, but no Jewish forces were approaching the city. In Haifa, both the Jewish leaders and the British police assured the Arab leaders that they had nothing to fear from the Jews, but without explanation the Arab leaders demanded buses to take them to Syria and nearly the entire Arab population left. It is at least inaccurate to characterize the Arab exodus from Israel as the Arabs being driven out.

It is also inaccurate to claim the Arabs who left were not allowed back in or were not eligible for compensation for property they may have lost.

(a) The owners of acquired property are entitled to compensation therefore from the Development Authority. The compensation shall be given in money, unless otherwise agreed between the owners and the Development Authority. The amount of compensation shall be fixed by agreement between the Development Authority and the owners or, in the absence of agreement, by the Court, as hereinafter provided.

(b) Where the acquired property was used for agriculture and was the main source of livelihood of its owner, and he has no other land sufficient for his livelihood, the Development Authority shall, on his demand, offer him other property, either for ownership or for lease, as full or partial compensation. A competent authority, to be appointed for this purpose by the Minister, shall, in accordance with rules to be prescribed by regulations, determine the category, location, area, and, in the case of lease, period of lease (not less than 49 years) and the value of the offered property, both for the purpose of calculating the compensation and for determination of the sufficiency of such property for a livelihood.

Israeli land and property laws - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

_5713-1953

To claim compensation under this law, an Arab who had owned property in Israel would have had to apply to the Israeli government as an individual, in effect, acknowledging the jurisdiction of that government. You will not find more than a few cases of Arabs who had left Israel and then applied for the compensation they were entitled to under Israeli law.

Similarly, Arabs who wanted to return to Israel had the right to apply to the government as individuals, again, effectively acknowledging the jurisdiction of that government, and had they applied, many of them would likely have been given permission to return. For example, During Operation BaraK several villages north of Gaza were evacuated by Israeli forces in anticipation of an Egyptian advance through that area, and the Arab villagers fled to Egypt. After the war, the commander in charge was heavily criticized in Israel for this action because it was not believed these villagers would have hampered military operations if they had been allowed to stay. Had these villagers applied as individuals to return, it is likely
permission would have been granted, but there is no record of any such applications.

Israel was not created by death and destruction. It was created by preventing the massive death and destruction intended by the Arabs.

LOL! Kick them out and then offer them compensation by applying to your attacker for compo, ya sure. And no record of any applications? LOL, no kidding.
You try to make it seem as though the whole process was done in a friendly, courteous and agreeable manner. It couldn't be further from the truth. But please do try again.

The claim that the Arabs were kicked out of Israel is a slogan, not an idea that can stand up to scrutiny. It may feel good to say it, but it is without substance. With few exceptions, the Arabs who were forced out were those that were at war with the new state of Israel, about 20%, and the others left for reasons that had nothing to do with Israeli actions but only about Arab attitudes about Jews. Israel passed laws establishing the property rights of Arabs who had left, but those Arabs never claimed those rights.

 

[JStone]

You've packed a lot of misinformation into a short post. First of all, only about 20% of the Arabs were forced out of Israel in the War of Independence and nearly all of these were from villages that had been launching attacks on Jews for years; they were at war with the new state, they lost and they fled. The other 80% left for a variety of reason, none of which had anything to do with Israeli actions against them. Take two of the largest Arab communities, Safed and Haifa. In Safed Arabs attacked the Jewish quarter and drove all the Jews out of the city in anticipation of the announcement of statehood. After a
few days, they became fearful of a retaliation by Jewish forces and much of the Arab population fled out of fear they would be punished for their crimes, but no Jewish forces were approaching the city. In Haifa, both the Jewish leaders and the British police assured the Arab leaders that they had nothing to fear from the Jews, but without explanation the Arab leaders demanded buses to take them to Syria and nearly the entire Arab population left. It is at least inaccurate to characterize the Arab exodus from Israel as the Arabs being driven out.

It is also inaccurate to claim the Arabs who left were not allowed back in or were not eligible for compensation for property they may have lost.



Israeli land and property laws - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

_5713-1953

To claim compensation under this law, an Arab who had owned property in Israel would have had to apply to the Israeli government as an individual, in effect, acknowledging the jurisdiction of that government. You will not find more than a few cases of Arabs who had left Israel and then applied for the compensation they were entitled to under Israeli law.

Similarly, Arabs who wanted to return to Israel had the right to apply to the government as individuals, again, effectively acknowledging the jurisdiction of that government, and had they applied, many of them would likely have been given permission to return. For example, During Operation BaraK several villages north of Gaza were evacuated by Israeli forces in anticipation of an Egyptian advance through that area, and the Arab villagers fled to Egypt. After the war, the commander in charge was heavily criticized in Israel for this action because it was not believed these villagers would have hampered military operations if they had been allowed to stay. Had these villagers applied as individuals to return, it is likely
permission would have been granted, but there is no record of any such applications.

Israel was not created by death and destruction. It was created by preventing the massive death and destruction intended by the Arabs.

LOL! Kick them out and then offer them compensation by applying to your attacker for compo, ya sure. And no record of any applications? LOL, no kidding.
You try to make it seem as though the whole process was done in a friendly, courteous and agreeable manner. It couldn't be further from the truth. But please do try again.

The claim that the Arabs were kicked out of Israel is a slogan, not an idea that can stand up to scrutiny. It may feel good to say it, but it is without substance. With few exceptions, the Arabs who were forced out were those that were at war with the new state of Israel, about 20%, and the others left for reasons that had nothing to do with Israeli actions but only about Arab attitudes about Jews. Israel passed laws establishing the property rights of Arabs who had left, but those Arabs never claimed those rights.

The Economist magazine, October 2, 1948

"Of the 62,000 Arabs who formerly lived in Haifa not more than 5,000 or 6,000 remained. Various factors influenced their decision to seek safety in flight. There is but little doubt that the most potent of the factors were the announcements made over the air by the Higher Arab Executive, urging the Arabs to quit.....It was clearly intimated that those Arabs who remained in Haifa and accepted Jewish protection would be regarded as renegades.

Middle East Historian Benny Morris, Author of "1948," The Definitive Account Of The '48 War...

The Arab National Committee in Jerusalem, following the March 8, 1948, instructions of the Arab Higher Committee, ordered women, children and the elderly in various parts of Jerusalem to leave their homes: “Any opposition to this order...is an obstacle to the holy war...and will hamper the operations of the fighters in these districts” The invading Arab armies also occasionally ordered whole villages to depart, so as not to be in their way”

 

[Wolverine1984]

We are back to square zero again ... How do you figure it's "their" land ? They never have sovereignty over the land it always belonged to someone else.
Another point is , while "their" land was under Egyptian and Jordanian rule they suddenly didn't want "their" land back ... They only wanted it back while Israel controlled it ...
So the conclusion form this is quite simple,it's not that they want "their" land back , they just want the Jews out...

That contradicts your previous statement :"I don't think that they care if their life gets better, they just want their land back".

As for being afraid of Islamic nukes, personally, I think that when they whack Israel, they'll calm down. And if they don't: K-A-B-O-O-M!

Exactly , "K-A-B-O-O-M! " to you and anything you hold dear.

Death and destruction is how Israel was created, just saying.

So the USA was created using unicorns butterflies and care bears then ?

"Their" land meaning the people who owned houses and land, not which country they belonged to, that's irrelevant whether they were Jordanians, Egyptians or whatever even if there was no country there at the time, I'm talking about the actual people who got kicked off their land and weren't allowed to return. So what if they were even stateless, Israel could have let them keep their land and houses, or like I've mentioned, the Jews could have bought them out one by one. Of course they're going to be pissed and want their land back, wouldn't you?

At least you agree that israel was created by death and destruction. How the US was created might make a good thread on its own, but for this discussion, it's irrelevant.

As for Iran hitting the US with a nuke? Not in my lifetime.
Iran hitting Israel with a nuke? Possibly in my lifetime. Would it matter to me? probably not, although I would have to buy an electric car!

"Their" land meaning the people who owned houses and land, not which country they belonged to, that's irrelevant whether they were Jordanians, Egyptians

You seem to have general misconception about land ownership.
How do you think one becomes a land owner ?

So what if they were even stateless, Israel could have let them keep their land and houses

Sure , if they were not trying to murder all the Jews this what would have happened.
Again you don't differentiate between war and times of peace.
They where "kicked off" because they were trying to kill people , they weren't peaceful people sitting on their hands looking at the sky.

I'm talking about the actual people who got kicked off their land and weren't allowed to return ... Of course they're going to be pissed and want their land back, wouldn't you?

You have the history a bit backward.
They were pissed and angry thats why they attacked Jews and thats how they lost "their" land , not the other way around.

At least you agree that israel was created by death and destruction. How the US was created might make a good thread on its own, but for this discussion, it's irrelevant.

What's irrelevant is you saying that Israel was created by death and destruction while in the inception of most modern countries that we know of 'death and destruction' were present.

So saying Israel was created by 'death and destruction' is meaningless while most of the other countries where also created by 'death and destruction'.

As for Iran hitting the US with a nuke? Not in my lifetime.
Iran hitting Israel with a nuke? Possibly in my lifetime. Would it matter to me? probably not, although I would have to buy an electric car!

Sure it's inconceivable now ... Although I don't know on what you base this assumption.
After all , a terrorist attack on the world trade center was also inconceivable before 9/11.