What Leftism Does to People

[logical4u]

So when Jesus wreaked havoc on the money changers in the Temple,

where does that act of lawlessness and destruction fall on the okay not okay scale?

If some people came into your house and set up different businesses, wouldn't you bodily throw them out? What if they came into your father's house?

If one is forced to accept a rather absurd premise that Jesus was in fact the divinely sired son of a supernatural being whose existence, not to mention ownership of all places of worship,

is an indisputable fact, i.e., proven beyond all reasonable doubt, then yeah,

I suppose you have a point.

I doubt however that anyone nowadays who vandalized a church would get very far with the claim that he was the divine Jesus, or the equivalent.

So, given that, would you like to try another answer?

Yeshua was and is "devine". It was His Father's house.
He did not vandalize the house. He vandalized the vandals.

 

[Chris]

This is what leftism does to people...

 

[logical4u]

It is well beyond that, Foxfyre; it has been for a while now. The Left is not amenable to reason; their goal is a totalitarian state, and the destruction of conservatism. Therefore, our goal must ultimately be the destruction of the Left. We cannot co-exist with their ideology, nor should we desire to. This can only end in conflict, winner take all. Whether this gets settled through the political process, or eventually is settled by war, we cannot at present know, but the possibility of the latter is growing. I believe, that if it comes to that, our goal must be victory, by whatever means necessary. Meanwhile, we have no recourse but to fight them, and all they stand for, with every lawful means at our disposal.

NO MORE COMPROMISE, NO MORE NEGOTIATION, NO MORE DISCUSSION, NO MORE APPEASEMENT, NO MORE ACCOMMODATION! We can have NO common ground with the Left, on ANYTHING! The Left is the enemy, this is political war, and the gloves are OFF!

LOL, well I'm not quite ready to put all the leftists in concentration camps quite yet. There are more than a few that I'm quite fond of and I would hate to lose those that I read regularly.

I know with all my heart that conservatism, modern American style, does produce the most beneficial and pleasing society, offers the most freedom, compassion, opportunity, prosperity, and respect for the creativity, ingenuity, and productiveness of the human, mind, spirit, and ability. A society that values and protects unalienable rights and freedom tempered by voluntary restraint is the closest thing we will achieve to Utopia on Planet Earth.

But I think we need to keep a few thinking liberals around to keep the process honest. Sometimes we conservatives need to be reminded of the short term consequences of actions taken so that we can temper our decision making to not cause unnecessary distress for people or so that we can mitigate it as much as possible. Liberals also tend to write better poetry than conservatives do. And we need to be reminded also of what liberalism, modern American style, can produce which is what we see in some of those Occupy groups. We need to be reminded so that we don't forget.

I think our goal should not be destruction of the Left but simply to keep preaching, teaching, pushing, and demonstrating modern American conservatism; i.e. Classical Liberalism. We need to keep taking our kids out of leftist schools so that they can get a complete education and won't be subject to indoctrination by the 'state'. Humankind has overcome adversity far far worse than what we have in America today and I have every faith that if we properly educate enough people, we can overcome today's adversity too.

Clearly, this post indicates the right want's to dominate the left, not to engage in dialogue. The poster isn't ready for liberal concentration camp, because she wants to save her few liberal friends. The rest of us can go to hell.

The post promotes the idea that we should indoctrinate our populace with right wing views. Keep kids away from being exposed to other political views.

The poster wants to keep a few liberals around to write poetry, the rest? Who cares? Get them away from our children. As if liberals were a threat to children. I work with elementary school children and I don't "indoctrinate" them with Marxism. What a ridiculous idea.

This post is more subdued than previous ones but is still full of stereotypes and prejudice. Even the "they write better poetry" nonsense. I wouldn't say the RW write worse poetry than the left. It's a silly claim.

The OP and this poster are not interested in a respectful dialogue with liberals or people whose politics lean left or they wouldn't say our views cause us to be "awful people."

Peeing and shitting in public, defacing and destroying property is "awful" behavior, it is anarchy. The OP confuses the people behaving badly at OWS with leftism and anarchy.

The case cannot be made that leftist politics breed "awful people".

You are "free" to believe what you want to believe. No one is stopping you. When it comes to changing the most successful nation in the history of the world, we would prefer caution over the results of liberalism in history: tyranny/dictatorship. We are waiting, patiently, I might add, for the liberals/progressives/ homosexual activists/islamic extremists/communists/socialists to show us "the plan" that makes it all work, and prevents it from becoming the STAIN, it has in the past. The "trust me" statement, is not a plan.

 

[logical4u]

The thread was comparing the actions of the left (OWS), to the actions of the conservatives (TEA party). The behavior between the two groups is vastly different. There seems to be a pattern: when the left gathers, there is immoral behavior; when the conservatives gather, there are few problems (other than the lefties trying to stir up trouble and no one taking the bait).
And please, give us these examples of "peaceful" demonstrations and give the numbers along with it, because at the TEA party rally in DC there were over 2 million, and there was not the mess, the violence, the gov't having to pay extra to "watch", or the outright crime that has been done at the OWS in NYC with a fraction of the people.

And the premise of the first post in the thread is to say that liberalism breeds this type of behavior in individuals more than conservatism does.

We were supposedly going to discuss the merits of that premise but some people got lost along the way

That's because there are no merits to that premise, and the RW won't give up. They just want to stir up divisiveness rather than discuss differing ideas and ideology.

YOu can't have a decent conversation with someone who consider you an "awful person".

Conservatism may breed "polite" behavior, on the surface, a lot of "holier than thou" rhetorica, but I'm not convinced after listeing to Rush, Coulter and Beck they breed "polite". They aren't polite at all. The RW has it's own share of scoundrels.

This is a really stupid argument with no other goal than to bash liberal citizens and turn us into YOUR enemies.

...."stir divisiveness"? Sky, who is trying to break the country into little groups (the poor, the rich, blacks, asians, hispanic, white, the educated, the unemployed, atheists, Christians, muslims, homosexuals, bisexuals, straights, transgenders, etc, etc, etc) as a way to control the votes of the citizens to empower the gov't, not the people? You didn't get left out when predjudice, discrimmination, or bigotry was handed out; it is demonstrated by you on a regular basis.

 

[Chris]

More results of liberalism...

 

[midcan5]

The use of 'leftism' is simple scapegoating, it is similar to blaming devils, witches, or name any religion, ethnic group, or racial group, it has no meaning outside the narrow choir of those who require scapegoats.

 

[Nosmo King]

You are "free" to believe what you want to believe. No one is stopping you. When it comes to changing the most successful nation in the history of the world, we would prefer caution over the results of liberalism in history: tyranny/dictatorship. We are waiting, patiently, I might add, for the liberals/progressives/ homosexual activists/islamic extremists/communists/socialists to show us "the plan" that makes it all work, and prevents it from becoming the STAIN, it has in the past. The "trust me" statement, is not a plan.

What an odd assortment of foes you list here! What on earth do Islamic extremists have to do with Liberals? or "homosexual activists"? Why are Communists included?

Sounds like a potpourri of things you either hate or don't fully understand or fear. My guess is it's a combination of all of the above. But the truth may lay closer to groups that you think sound diabolical and are just fun to lump together.

 

[logical4u]

Well said!




Luissa I went to occupy boston 2 times now.....they are the ones who have shaped my opinion of the movement's views.

I didn't intentionally go to an Occupy Albuquerque rally but got caught up in one when trying to get my Aunt to a doctor's appointment. Because they refused to allow cars to pass on the street, we were late to the appointment. I have also watched some of a livestream somebody set up. The group has changed its name to (un)Occupy Albuqeurque because some of the members objected to the term 'occupy' as too reminiscent of when the Spanish Conquistadors occupied this area.

The group did start out intentionally non violent and peaceful, but like most of the other Occupy groups dissolved into antisocial behavior as the days went by. It first turned violent when UNM refused to renew a permit for an Occupy group camped out in a small park on campus. The group was urinating, defecating, and generally trashing the park, destroying landscaping, damaging trees etc.. The ACLU intervened on behalf of the Occupy group and something was worked out. There have been other incidents of civil disobedience in destructive ways and some arrests have been made.

All this is to say that even when the organizers try to keep things civil and neighborly, leftism seems to promote antisocial and destructive, even violent, behavior in people that conservatism doesn't seem to promote.

You continue to assert that it is conservatism that makes people behave. That's ridiculous.

Thoughout history, we have had MANY demonstrations by people on the left that were peaceful, non-violent and not criminal.

You've got a SEVERE prejudice against liberals and those of us with left leaning politics.

You continue to assert that somehow being conservative make YOU and yours superior human beings.

This is bias.

I'm sure you would NEVER consider the possibility of agitators from the RW being planted into OWS to cause problems.

When I marched as a youth, because we were organized, we knew how to identify these outside agitators, (sometimes police and government) and to resist their influence.

I don't know what is causing the problem with OWS. There is plenty of speculation. But YOUR premise may lead to fascism, IMO.

You'd like to squash all influence of politics that don't meet your conservative standards. (keep those people away from indoctrinating our children).

That might be because conservatives have values. If they are around people that do not hold those values, they are uncomfortable. The rest: their values are fluid, they can change in a minute. Because they hold no values, firmly, they are a lot more willing to overlook 'bad behavior' from others.

 

[Chris]

The awful result of national health insurance....

 

[Dr Grump]

I voted 'left unchecked leftism will destroy American as we know it'. For the simple reason that I have seen what left wing policies have done to the UK. It is not a bad country, but its people have, for the most part, lost their ability to stand on their own two feet. They expect government to 'take care of' them. I constantly hear Brits wanting to 'ban' this or 'ban' that... anything they disagree with. Their concept of free speech is laughable. They are like sheep - nice people, but most definitely sheep.

Of course, there are exceptions to the rule, but many older people say the country is not the one their generation fought and died to preserve. I find that sad.

The country they fought and died for was a lot more socialist than it is now. And I disagree with you about the British in general...They are not sheep. I find Yanks more the sheep type than Brits...

 

[logical4u]

FF excels in parallel conversations. Leading the RW cronies in a bash left fest and calling it "scholarship". What a load of manure.

There is no real analysis of any so-called "leftist" tenet. Frankly, I have no idea what human beings these mythical "leftists" are. Are you dragging Marx out of his grave?

I'm a liberal, I lean left in my political stances on a number of national issues and I have NEVER read Marx.

I doubt you would find a directive to pee and shit in public in Das Kapital, however, as the RW goons who won't even talk to liberal posters say.

This is NOTHING but a flame fest designed to puff up the fragile egos of the RW cronies and demean other citizens whose politics lean left.

Labelling has become the replacement for true discourse, while MS High and Mighty talks ONLY to those who believe in this bigoted nonsense.

No point in posting on this thread, which is clearly the intent of the OP. This is a RW rant, RW hate speech and liberals and leftists aren't invited. No counter arguments are welcome.

Typical.

We ask the "left-leaners": What evidence do you have that your system works? We get, in theory.... We ask them: Where has this system ever worked longer than other people's money? We get crickets.

You want to have a dialog? How about speaking in facts, not ideals. Ideally, I should be able to fly with mind power anywhere in the world. Factually, that will not be happening any time soon.

 

[logical4u]

People who support OWS cause ARE condemning such behavior. YOU aren't listening, because your prejudice against us is so thick.

My own personal theory is that people who are GLUED to TV news become more prejudiced the longer they watch.

Please don't give out false information about where my opinion and comment stems from. I am not prejudiced against OWS at all, I'm forming opinions based on real world experience and my own interactions.

You personally have condemmed such behavior on the forum as I have read you doing so. When I brought up this same stuff to the people in boston they told me they weren't doing anything wrong....when i pressed harder and said it makes you guys look like a bunch of hooligans they told me "Fuck off idiot, you don't get it"

I continued to press them as to how destroying the park and spraypainting stuff down there was helping their cause and was called more names and did not have my question answered at all.

Its hard to change my opinion when its based on real world experience with people at one of the protests.

Here is an example, although I just went dressed in my normal clothes without signs/message only questions.
http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/193189-occupy-wall-street-vs-the-tea-party-video.html

Look. I support OWS cause. I don't support illegal behavior. If you try and interview thugs instead of people knitting at the OWS you get a thugs answer.

The OWS cause IS bad behavior: take, take, take (is that individual greed?), after they have taken a lot from the system (according to their student loan numbers). They want other people to "invest in them" without demonstrating any worth (other than demonstrating); we call that talking the talk, but not walking the walk.
It sounds like you are dealing with the "fringe" (the other side of the coin), that are behaving. When the OWS crowd are threatening other citizens, the wealthy, and declaring if there are no changes, they will become more active on 11-11, don't you just have to think, I wish they would grow up and work a real job? If they become more violent on 11-11, will you still pretend they have a "cause" (other than anarchy)?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

That might be because conservatives have values. If they are around people that do not hold those values, they are uncomfortable. The rest: their values are fluid, they can change in a minute. Because they hold no values, firmly, they are a lot more willing to overlook 'bad behavior' from others.

Ignorant nonsense.

Liberals have the same values as conservatives: love of family and country, religious morals and personal ethics. What confuses you (among many, many different things…) is the fact that liberals don’t attempt to foist their values and beliefs on others; rather, they seek to find common ground and are interested in finding the best solutions to problems regardless the solutions’ ideological origin.

Needless to say this conflicts with conservatives who adhere blindly to dogma, lashing out at the perceived ‘heresy’ of liberals.

 

[logical4u]

You are "free" to believe what you want to believe. No one is stopping you. When it comes to changing the most successful nation in the history of the world, we would prefer caution over the results of liberalism in history: tyranny/dictatorship. We are waiting, patiently, I might add, for the liberals/progressives/ homosexual activists/islamic extremists/communists/socialists to show us "the plan" that makes it all work, and prevents it from becoming the STAIN, it has in the past. The "trust me" statement, is not a plan.

What an odd assortment of foes you list here! What on earth do Islamic extremists have to do with Liberals? or "homosexual activists"? Why are Communists included?

Sounds like a potpourri of things you either hate or don't fully understand or fear. My guess is it's a combination of all of the above. But the truth may lay closer to groups that you think sound diabolical and are just fun to lump together.

They use the same methods: they speak about what is "fair" (to them), while ignoring or oppressing the rights of others. They support each other against conservatives because their goals are the same: to take what the conservatives have (envy). Once the conservatives have been subjugated or eliminated, each thinks they will land on top.

 

[Chris]

FF excels in parallel conversations. Leading the RW cronies in a bash left fest and calling it "scholarship". What a load of manure.

There is no real analysis of any so-called "leftist" tenet. Frankly, I have no idea what human beings these mythical "leftists" are. Are you dragging Marx out of his grave?

I'm a liberal, I lean left in my political stances on a number of national issues and I have NEVER read Marx.

I doubt you would find a directive to pee and shit in public in Das Kapital, however, as the RW goons who won't even talk to liberal posters say.

This is NOTHING but a flame fest designed to puff up the fragile egos of the RW cronies and demean other citizens whose politics lean left.

Labelling has become the replacement for true discourse, while MS High and Mighty talks ONLY to those who believe in this bigoted nonsense.

No point in posting on this thread, which is clearly the intent of the OP. This is a RW rant, RW hate speech and liberals and leftists aren't invited. No counter arguments are welcome.

Typical.

We ask the "left-leaners": What evidence do you have that your system works? We get, in theory.... We ask them: Where has this system ever worked longer than other people's money? We get crickets.

You want to have a dialog? How about speaking in facts, not ideals. Ideally, I should be able to fly with mind power anywhere in the world. Factually, that will not be happening any time soon.

Sweden and Norway.

 

[Rinata]

Leftism will kill America and the Western World!

And you think Herman Cain is the answer???

 

[Chris]

Sweden is an export-oriented mixed economy featuring a modern distribution system, excellent internal and external communications, and a skilled labour force. Timber, hydropower and iron ore constitute the resource base of an economy heavily oriented toward foreign trade. Sweden's engineering sector accounts for 50% of output and exports. Telecommunications, the automotive industry and the pharmaceutical industries are also of great importance. Agriculture accounts for 2% of GDP and employment. Income is relatively flatly distributed, Sweden has the lowest Gini coefficient (0.23) of any country.

In terms of structure, the Swedish economy is characterised by a large, knowledge-intensive and export-oriented manufacturing sector, an increasing, but comparatively small, business service sector, and by international standards, a large public service sector. Large organisations both in manufacturing and services dominate the Swedish economy.[100]

Some 4.5 million residents are working, out of which around a third has tertiary education. GDP per hour worked is the world's 9th highest at 31 USD in 2006, compared to 22 USD in Spain and 35 USD in United States.[102] GDP per hour worked is growing 2½ per cent per year for the economy as a whole and the trade-terms-balanced productivity growth is 2%.[102] According to OECD, deregulation, globalisation, and technology sector growth have been key productivity drivers.[102] Sweden is a world leader in privatised pensions and pension funding problems are relatively small compared to many other Western European countries.[103]

The typical worker receives 40% of his income after the tax wedge. The slowly declining overall taxation, 51.1% of GDP in 2007, is still nearly double of that in the United States or Ireland. The share of employment financed via tax income amounts to a third of Swedish workforce, a substantially higher proportion than in most other countries. Overall, GDP growth has been fast since reforms in the early 1990s, especially in manufacturing.[104]

The World Economic Forum 2009–2010 competitiveness index ranks Sweden the 4th most competitive economy in the world.[105] In the World Economic Forum 2010–2011 Global Competitiveness Report, Sweden climbed two positions, and is now ranked 2nd in the world.[106] Sweden is ranked 6th in the IMD Competitiveness Yearbook 2009, scoring high in private sector efficiency.[107] According to the book, The Flight of the Creative Class, by the U.S. economist, Professor Richard Florida of the University of Toronto, Sweden is ranked as having the best creativity in Europe for business and is predicted to become a talent magnet for the world's most purposeful workers. The book compiled an index to measure the kind of creativity it claims is most useful to business—talent, technology and tolerance.[108]

Sweden - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[logical4u]

That might be because conservatives have values. If they are around people that do not hold those values, they are uncomfortable. The rest: their values are fluid, they can change in a minute. Because they hold no values, firmly, they are a lot more willing to overlook 'bad behavior' from others.

Ignorant nonsense.

Liberals have the same values as conservatives: love of family and country, religious morals and personal ethics. What confuses you (among many, many different things…) is the fact that liberals don’t attempt to foist their values and beliefs on others; rather, they seek to find common ground and are interested in finding the best solutions to problems regardless the solutions’ ideological origin.

Needless to say this conflicts with conservatives who adhere blindly to dogma, lashing out at the perceived ‘heresy’ of liberals.

Liberals support:
children experimenting with sex (taught by tax dollar funded schools)
children having abortions without parental consent
legalization of drugs
poor people having children to get more money from welfare
single mothers staying single
deadbeat dads for single mothers (baby daddy)
hate crimes that are selectively applied
drugging of boy children (for ADD, etc)
an elite ruling class (from IVY league schools)
taxing the wealthy dispropotionately
keeping almost half of the population under the thumb of gov't, by letting then NOT pay taxes
Silencing conservatives
Selectively eliminating the Bill of Rights (freedom to practice religion/right to bear arms)

So please, list those moral values you have.

 

[Nosmo King]

You are "free" to believe what you want to believe. No one is stopping you. When it comes to changing the most successful nation in the history of the world, we would prefer caution over the results of liberalism in history: tyranny/dictatorship. We are waiting, patiently, I might add, for the liberals/progressives/ homosexual activists/islamic extremists/communists/socialists to show us "the plan" that makes it all work, and prevents it from becoming the STAIN, it has in the past. The "trust me" statement, is not a plan.

What an odd assortment of foes you list here! What on earth do Islamic extremists have to do with Liberals? or "homosexual activists"? Why are Communists included?

Sounds like a potpourri of things you either hate or don't fully understand or fear. My guess is it's a combination of all of the above. But the truth may lay closer to groups that you think sound diabolical and are just fun to lump together.

They use the same methods: they speak about what is "fair" (to them), while ignoring or oppressing the rights of others. They support each other against conservatives because their goals are the same: to take what the conservatives have (envy). Once the conservatives have been subjugated or eliminated, each thinks they will land on top.

yeah. gotta hate "fair'.

And I don't "envy" Conservatives. I pity them for they know only selfishness and not nobility.

I wonder how, for just one example, posting the Ten Commandments in a court house has nothing to do with speaking out about what's 'fair' while not ignoring the rights of others?

I wonder how, for just one example, how subjugating homosexuals as second class citizens does not oppress the rights of those homosexuals?

I wonder why, for just one example, eliminating environmental regulations benefits society.

Conservatism: always on the wrong side of society, history and the rights of all.

 

[Nosmo King]

Liberals support:
children experimenting with sex (taught by tax dollar funded schools)
children having abortions without parental consent
legalization of drugs
poor people having children to get more money from welfare
single mothers staying single
deadbeat dads for single mothers (baby daddy)
hate crimes that are selectively applied
drugging of boy children (for ADD, etc)
an elite ruling class (from IVY league schools)
taxing the wealthy dispropotionately
keeping almost half of the population under the thumb of gov't, by letting then NOT pay taxes
Silencing conservatives
Selectively eliminating the Bill of Rights (freedom to practice religion/right to bear arms)

So please, list those moral values you have.

gee. I wonder how these positions fit with the avowed Conservative position of smaller, less intrusive government?

Would Conservatives forcibly sterilize people so poor people won't or can't have children to get more money from welfare? Would Conservatives force single mothers to wed?

Why the distrust of Ivy League educated people? Something about knowledge that's an anathema to Conservatives? I know that smart folks aren't easily fooled into thinking that backwards is the best way to go.

And if the wealthy are taking capital disproportionately, shouldn't they be taxed accordingly?

Are Conservatives actively encouraging Liberal ideas to be heard? Perhaps the Conservatives are actually silencing Liberals.

And if teaching children the pitfalls of sex and their responsibility once they become sexually active is a bad thing, why teach abstinence? Ask the Palin household how effective Abstinence only sex "education' is.