What percent of GDP should be devoted to a universal minimum income

[Anathema]

Yes Medicare for all capitalism would be a good idea to reduce the cost of our healthcare by 80% and add 10 to 20 years to our life expectancys

"Medicare for All" probably leaves me DEAD within. 36 months. I wont accept Government healthcare. Id rather die.

 

[Anathema]

Yes Medicare for all capitalism would be a good idea to reduce the cost of our healthcare by 80% and add 10 to 20 years to our life expectancys

"Medicare for All" probably leaves me DEAD within. 36 months. I wont accept Government healthcare. Id rather die.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

I made a similar poll in absolute terms, this time it is relative to gdp.
Now, some restrictions:
1) assume al other social security programs disappear( medicare , medicaid, government pensions, food stamps)
2) Public schools will still exists ( the budget for education is less than 1% of gdp )
3) The tax rate will be 35% flat, but the minimum income will work as a tax return for everyonew with an income. Hence if someone earns 50,000 a year and the UMI is 10,000 that person will only pay 7,500 in taxes instead of 17,500.
4) The minimum income only applies to people over who are 20 year or older ( to avoid people using extra kids as a way to increase their income)
5) I have not included percentages above 30% because even without social programs some money is required to run the government and build infrastructure; it is unlikely the government will be able to raise more than 40% of gdp in taxes.

Minimum wage and unemployment should both be a state by state issue.

It should be based on local cost of living.

The Feds should stay out of this. They are already too deep in deficits.

Medicare and medicaid are already too expensive. Why not give the money directly to the people and let them choose where to get the money .

You mean where to get the healthcare??

Sory Ed, I meant "put their money" ... I'd better stop making posts when I am falling asleep.

That's not what I said. If you work and you pay into the system, then there is a safety net for when you can't work.

What you're coming up with is money for nothing. It's ridiculous. It encourages people not to work.

Exactly. You just wind up creating more worthless parasites, such as Matthew, who think that society owes them a living, and are unwilling and unable to contribute anything back to society.

Ahhh. Well, exactly , at some point people start getting desperate and start searching for alternative sources of income: drug and human trafficking, prostitution, kidnaping, extortion or simple robbery and keeping people incarcerated is not exactly cheap.
Free people consume products.

Does this mean people wouldn't go looking for these sources of income if they had money thrown at them for doing nothing? People don't stop trying to make money simply because they have a little.

It is not that people will stop looking for sources of income , it will most likely be the case that such sources are rare and or require a very high level of specialization and skill. The minimum income will help them achieve such level.

Yes Medicare for all capitalism would be a good idea to reduce the cost of our healthcare by 80% and add 10 to 20 years to our life expectancys

"Medicare for All" probably leaves me DEAD within. 36 months. I wont accept Government healthcare. Id rather die.

We are talking about Medicare for all capitalism we are in the government sends every person $10,000 that they can use or not to purchase healthcare This would lower prices by about 80% and add 10 to 20 years to our life expectancy's. Do you understand?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

I made a similar poll in absolute terms, this time it is relative to gdp.
Now, some restrictions:
1) assume al other social security programs disappear( medicare , medicaid, government pensions, food stamps)
2) Public schools will still exists ( the budget for education is less than 1% of gdp )
3) The tax rate will be 35% flat, but the minimum income will work as a tax return for everyonew with an income. Hence if someone earns 50,000 a year and the UMI is 10,000 that person will only pay 7,500 in taxes instead of 17,500.
4) The minimum income only applies to people over who are 20 year or older ( to avoid people using extra kids as a way to increase their income)
5) I have not included percentages above 30% because even without social programs some money is required to run the government and build infrastructure; it is unlikely the government will be able to raise more than 40% of gdp in taxes.

Minimum wage and unemployment should both be a state by state issue.

It should be based on local cost of living.

The Feds should stay out of this. They are already too deep in deficits.

Medicare and medicaid are already too expensive. Why not give the money directly to the people and let them choose where to get the money .

You mean where to get the healthcare??

Sory Ed, I meant "put their money" ... I'd better stop making posts when I am falling asleep.

That's not what I said. If you work and you pay into the system, then there is a safety net for when you can't work.

What you're coming up with is money for nothing. It's ridiculous. It encourages people not to work.

Exactly. You just wind up creating more worthless parasites, such as Matthew, who think that society owes them a living, and are unwilling and unable to contribute anything back to society.

Ahhh. Well, exactly , at some point people start getting desperate and start searching for alternative sources of income: drug and human trafficking, prostitution, kidnaping, extortion or simple robbery and keeping people incarcerated is not exactly cheap.
Free people consume products.

Does this mean people wouldn't go looking for these sources of income if they had money thrown at them for doing nothing? People don't stop trying to make money simply because they have a little.

It is not that people will stop looking for sources of income , it will most likely be the case that such sources are rare and or require a very high level of specialization and skill. The minimum income will help them achieve such level.

Yes Medicare for all capitalism would be a good idea to reduce the cost of our healthcare by 80% and add 10 to 20 years to our life expectancys

"Medicare for All" probably leaves me DEAD within. 36 months. I wont accept Government healthcare. Id rather die.

We are talking about Medicare for all capitalism we are in the government sends every person $10,000 that they can use or not to purchase healthcare This would lower prices by about 80% and add 10 to 20 years to our life expectancy's. Do you understand?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

I made a similar poll in absolute terms, this time it is relative to gdp.
Now, some restrictions:
1) assume al other social security programs disappear( medicare , medicaid, government pensions, food stamps)
2) Public schools will still exists ( the budget for education is less than 1% of gdp )
3) The tax rate will be 35% flat, but the minimum income will work as a tax return for everyonew with an income. Hence if someone earns 50,000 a year and the UMI is 10,000 that person will only pay 7,500 in taxes instead of 17,500.
4) The minimum income only applies to people over who are 20 year or older ( to avoid people using extra kids as a way to increase their income)
5) I have not included percentages above 30% because even without social programs some money is required to run the government and build infrastructure; it is unlikely the government will be able to raise more than 40% of gdp in taxes.

Minimum wage and unemployment should both be a state by state issue.

It should be based on local cost of living.

The Feds should stay out of this. They are already too deep in deficits.

Medicare and medicaid are already too expensive. Why not give the money directly to the people and let them choose where to get the money .

You mean where to get the healthcare??

Sory Ed, I meant "put their money" ... I'd better stop making posts when I am falling asleep.

That's not what I said. If you work and you pay into the system, then there is a safety net for when you can't work.

What you're coming up with is money for nothing. It's ridiculous. It encourages people not to work.

Exactly. You just wind up creating more worthless parasites, such as Matthew, who think that society owes them a living, and are unwilling and unable to contribute anything back to society.

Ahhh. Well, exactly , at some point people start getting desperate and start searching for alternative sources of income: drug and human trafficking, prostitution, kidnaping, extortion or simple robbery and keeping people incarcerated is not exactly cheap.
Free people consume products.

Does this mean people wouldn't go looking for these sources of income if they had money thrown at them for doing nothing? People don't stop trying to make money simply because they have a little.

It is not that people will stop looking for sources of income , it will most likely be the case that such sources are rare and or require a very high level of specialization and skill. The minimum income will help them achieve such level.

Yes Medicare for all capitalism would be a good idea to reduce the cost of our healthcare by 80% and add 10 to 20 years to our life expectancys

"Medicare for All" probably leaves me DEAD within. 36 months. I wont accept Government healthcare. Id rather die.

we are talking about Medicare for all capitalism we are in the government sends every person $10,000 that they can use or not

 

[CultureCitizen]

Yes Medicare for all capitalism would be a good idea to reduce the cost of our healthcare by 80% and add 10 to 20 years to our life expectancys

"Medicare for All" probably leaves me DEAD within. 36 months. I wont accept Government healthcare. Id rather die.

How would that happen?
You get $1,000 each month. You decide how to use it ( eating healthier, subscribing to a gym, getting an mri , going to a local doctor, using a doctor overseas, saving it ) how will that kill you in 36 months.

 

[Anathema]

How would that happen?
You get $1,000 each month. You decide how to use it ( eating healthier, subscribing to a gym, getting an mri , going to a local doctor, using a doctor overseas, saving it ) how will that kill you in 36 months.

I will not take Government money for my care. No Medicare. No Medicaid. No Zicial Security. If/when I lose private health insurance I lose all healthcare. Including my medications.

 

[CultureCitizen]

How would that happen?
You get $1,000 each month. You decide how to use it ( eating healthier, subscribing to a gym, getting an mri , going to a local doctor, using a doctor overseas, saving it ) how will that kill you in 36 months.

I will not take Government money for my care. No Medicare. No Medicaid. No Zicial Security. If/when I lose private health insurance I lose all healthcare. Including my medications.

Well , nice way of thinking. Regardless, that doesn't mean UMI will automatically "lead you death int 36 months".
So far I have not taken any money ,from any government program, but I am not really sure if I am going to be able to say the same 25 years into the future.

 

[Manonthestreet]

 

[Bob Blaylock]

I will not take Government money for my care. No Medicare. No Medicaid. No Zicial [sic] Security.

I'm with you on principle, but in reality, government had no problem taking that money from you, in order to give these handouts to others. Why turn down the chance to get back some of what was rightfully your own money in the first place?

 

[Anathema]

Well , nice way of thinking. Regardless, that doesn't mean UMI will automatically "lead you death int 36 months".
So far I have not taken any money ,from any government program, but I am not really sure if I am going to be able to say the same 25 years into the future.

For me its a Moral issue. I dont take money from the Government. For anything. Not now. Not ever.

 

[Anathema]

I'm with you on principle, but in reality, government had no problem taking that money from you, in order to give these handouts to others. Why turn down the chance to get back some of what was rightfully your own money in the first place?

Two Wrongs don't make a Right. Never have and hopefully never will. When you lay down in the mud of Government money yoi can never come oit ckean, no matter how pure your intentions are.

 

[ScienceRocks]

The concept of needing humans to break their backs for 50 years doing hard labor is probably going bye bye in the next 20 years. AI and Robotics will take over.

We will need a UBI for all humans.....I say 10% to keep people wanting to find some kind of improvement through work.

 

[Anathema]

The concept of needing humans to break their backs for 50 years doing hard labor is probably going bye bye in the next 20 years. AI and Robotics will take ove.

THIS is why we need a Moral test for new technology in addition to a usefulness test. If the technology takes away jobs withoit crsating new ones, it should not be sllowed.

 

[Jarlaxle]

So...you just said you want to ban assembly lines.

 

[Anathema]

So...you just said you want to ban assembly lines.

Not necessarily. Assembly Lines required employees to build, run, and maintain them. Now we're talking aboit fully automated production with no human component at all.

That's a serious problem in my mind. Unless we intend to eradicate the "unnecessary" portion of the human population after this newest automation.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

I'm with you on principle, but in reality, government had no problem taking that money from you, in order to give these handouts to others. Why turn down the chance to get back some of what was rightfully your own money in the first place?

Two Wrongs don't make a Right. Never have and hopefully never will. When you lay down in the mud of Government money yoi can never come oit ckean, no matter how pure your intentions are.

I'm not talking about two wrongs making a right. I'm talking about getting back some of what was always rightfully yours to begin with, but which was unrightfully stolen from you.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

The concept of needing humans to break their backs for 50 years doing hard labor is probably going bye bye in the next 20 years. AI and Robotics will take over.

We will need a UBI for all humans.....I say 10% to keep people wanting to find some kind of improvement through work.

Your own motive is obvious enough. You don't want to work, you don't want to contribute anything to society, and you want to live at the expense of others, rather than carry your own fair share of the load. You want to exist as a worthless parasite on society.

Society has no need for your kind.

2 Thessalonians 3:10: “For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.”​

 

[Anathema]

I'm not talking about two wrongs making a right. I'm talking about getting back some of what was always rightfully yours to begin with, but which was unrightfully stolen from you.

Unfortunately stealing from or conning the people who stole from you makes you as bad as it makes them.

There is NO SITUATION where taking social services money from the Government is appropriate.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

I'm not talking about two wrongs making a right. I'm talking about getting back some of what was always rightfully yours to begin with, but which was unrightfully stolen from you.

Unfortunately stealing from or conning the people who stole from you makes you as bad as it makes them.

There is NO SITUATION where taking social services money from the Government is appropriate.

So, a thief should be allowed to keep what he has stolen, and never be compelled to give any of it back to the rightful owners thereof?

It is not stealing to take back what was always rightfully yours.

 

[WheelieAddict]

It's a bit early for UBI. A good first step would be a public option for healthcare. In a way we already have UBI, tons of "disabled" in red states drawing a check already.