CDZ What should we do?

[Coyote]

I didnt vote because it would only allow me to choose one and I would have chosen both.

If you'd like I can ask you to change the criteria of the poll to allow more than one choice. I want a thorough response from this board, not just a partial one. My mistake.

1. Trump created this current situation. He cooked up the policy that is the cause of so much grief right now. He can remove it just as easily. It is a policy. If part of his rationale was to force his legislative wishlist through congress then that is abhorant. Using the abuse of children in this way is just plain unreal and inhuman to me. He easily end what he started.

2. The larger issue needs to be addressed, but not tied to this immediate one. We have had multiple attempts at immigration reform attempted and cut down. It needs to be bipartisan and comprehensive and frankly should be done in a thoughtful manner that includes input from all sectors affected by immigration, not just politicians.

But I can see the strategy, albeit an unpopular one, behind it. I think Trump implemented this policy on purpose to force action. Congress failed to act on DACA (we can argue the semantics in the Politics forum), so I'm guessing this was the only option left open to him. And if Democrats or Republicans fail to handle this in the right manner, the onus will be on them, not him. Though, he is taking one for the team I suppose.

3. DACA should be addressed on its own not tied to other things. Those kids need some certainty as to their future.

While I agree with that aspect, I can't help but point out that their parents introduced that uncertainty by putting their child's future in the hands of a foreign government. I see it as amoral to gamble a child's future that way.

I changed the poll and voted

 

[TemplarKormac]

I didnt vote because it would only allow me to choose one and I would have chosen both.

If you'd like I can ask you to change the criteria of the poll to allow more than one choice. I want a thorough response from this board, not just a partial one. My mistake.

1. Trump created this current situation. He cooked up the policy that is the cause of so much grief right now. He can remove it just as easily. It is a policy. If part of his rationale was to force his legislative wishlist through congress then that is abhorant. Using the abuse of children in this way is just plain unreal and inhuman to me. He easily end what he started.

2. The larger issue needs to be addressed, but not tied to this immediate one. We have had multiple attempts at immigration reform attempted and cut down. It needs to be bipartisan and comprehensive and frankly should be done in a thoughtful manner that includes input from all sectors affected by immigration, not just politicians.

But I can see the strategy, albeit an unpopular one, behind it. I think Trump implemented this policy on purpose to force action. Congress failed to act on DACA (we can argue the semantics in the Politics forum), so I'm guessing this was the only option left open to him. And if Democrats or Republicans fail to handle this in the right manner, the onus will be on them, not him. Though, he is taking one for the team I suppose.

3. DACA should be addressed on its own not tied to other things. Those kids need some certainty as to their future.

While I agree with that aspect, I can't help but point out that their parents introduced that uncertainty by putting their child's future in the hands of a foreign government. I see it as amoral to gamble a child's future that way.

I changed the poll and voted

Sweet! Now here's your sticker. Don't say I never gave you anything!

 

[Coyote]

Well... the least popular option won. Trump is going to sign an executive order to put a stop to the separations.

Figures congress wouldn't act.

See that can? See how far they kicked it? Must be a world record.

Trump needed to do that. I dont think immigration reform should be handled in a crisis manner. It needs to be well thought out and Trump.

Whst a mess. And completely unnecessary. There was no plan in place to handle all those children, to keep track of them, anything. Parents were deported without their children. I dread the thought of children lost.

 

[TemplarKormac]

It needs to be well thought out and Trump.

Still typing on your phone? Was there more to that sentence?

 

[Coyote]

Republicans hold the house, senate, and presidency. They can end this anytime they want. That's the truth.

True, but it's a matter if Democratic cooperation. Even if the Republicans did something, the Democrats would more than likely not cooperate. That shows how very little they care about solving this issue.

I think they would if it was a clean bill but Trump wouldnt sign it then.

 

[Coyote]

It needs to be well thought out and Trump.

Still typing on your phone? Was there more to that sentence?

Yes. Wtf....grrr...I should just give up!

 

[TemplarKormac]

Republicans hold the house, senate, and presidency. They can end this anytime they want. That's the truth.

True, but it's a matter if Democratic cooperation. Even if the Republicans did something, the Democrats would more than likely not cooperate. That shows how very little they care about solving this issue.

I think they would if it was a clean bill but Trump wouldnt sign it then.

Last I heard, Democrats were more dead set on the Feinstein bill. And you heard Schumer saying he wouldn't vote for anything the Republicans introduced.

 

[TemplarKormac]

It needs to be well thought out and Trump.

Still typing on your phone? Was there more to that sentence?

Yes. Wtf....grrr...I should just give up!

Use a PC. Lot easier on your fingers and your sanity!

 

[sartre play]

, It does seem that if we can get most Americans to label ALL these people as bad then we don't have to care about what happens to them. could all poor people be bad? that cant really be true can it?

 

[miketx]

Regressive liberal ROE


1. Demand a link or an explanation of the truth they are objecting to.

2. Promptly reject all explanations as right wing lies. Smoke spin deflect

3. Ignore any facts presented.

4. Ridicule spelling and typos, punctuation.

5. Attack the person as being juvenile, ie: "are you 12 years old", question their education, intelligence, Age

6. Employ misdirection,

6a. smear people

6b. attack religion

6c. attack their rationality.

7. Lie, make false assumptions

8. Play race/gender card/misogynist card

9. Play gay/lesbian card

10. Play the Nazi/Fascist/bigot card

11. Make up stuff/So you got nothing?

12. Deny constantly

13. Reword and repeat

14. Pretending not to understand, playing ignorant/what did I lie about

15. When losing, resort to personal attacks.

16. Russia

17. Fox News/Alex Jones/Brietbart/infowars/Stormfront/Gateway/hannity

18. You can’t read.

19. Trump Trump Trump TrumpTrump Trump

Project much?

libwits behavior is well documented no matter how much you pretend otherwise.

Does your response meet #5 or #15 or both?

Stating proven fact. You smoke and spin all you want.

#2, #3, #6, #12 & #14.

Sure Goebbels.

 

[Nosmo King]

Project much?

libwits behavior is well documented no matter how much you pretend otherwise.

Does your response meet #5 or #15 or both?

Stating proven fact. You smoke and spin all you want.

#2, #3, #6, #12 & #14.

Sure Goebbels.

10, 11, 12!

 

[Gracie]

keep the mother and child together, but the dad must be separated and charged.

Most of them (mothers) don't know who the fathers are...so that won't work either.

 

[Nosmo King]

keep the mother and child together, but the dad must be separated and charged.

Most of them (mothers) don't know who the fathers are...so that won't work either.

Most? Is it easier to cast aspersions on the character of the people if all you really want is to hate and fear them? Or is this just good old fashioned xenophobia?

 

[Gracie]

keep the mother and child together, but the dad must be separated and charged.

Most of them (mothers) don't know who the fathers are...so that won't work either.

Most? Is it easier to cast aspersions on the character of the people if all you really want is to hate and fear them? Or is this just good old fashioned xenophobia?

Oh, blow me. I have been pushed back THREE FUCKING TIMES due to an unwed mother that has shitloads of kids. So spare me your hand wringing. I am experiencing this shit FIRST HAND, bub. So stuff it.

 

[sparky]

IMO...illegal immigration is so dangerous and risky that people would have to be pretty desoerate to take that risk. So yes I have sympathy for them. That doe not mean open borders but it means every human should be treated with basic respect and dignity. They arent vermin they are people.

I'll wager America treats it's detaniees better than most do Coyote

And that is exactly what i see as the crux of the issue

~S~

 

[miketx]

Well... the least popular option won. Trump is going to sign an executive order to put a stop to the separations.

Figures congress wouldn't act.

See that can? See how far they kicked it? Must be a world record.

Trump needed to do that. I dont think immigration reform should be handled in a crisis manner. It needs to be well thought out and Trump.

Whst a mess. And completely unnecessary. There was no plan in place to handle all those children, to keep track of them, anything. Parents were deported without their children. I dread the thought of children lost.

If they stop trying to come here, problem solved.

 

[Nosmo King]

keep the mother and child together, but the dad must be separated and charged.

Most of them (mothers) don't know who the fathers are...so that won't work either.

Most? Is it easier to cast aspersions on the character of the people if all you really want is to hate and fear them? Or is this just good old fashioned xenophobia?

Oh, blow me. I have been pushed back THREE FUCKING TIMES due to an unwed mother that has shitloads of kids. So spare me your hand wringing. I am experiencing this shit FIRST HAND, bub. So stuff it.

So you know the difference between anecdotal evidence and facts?

 

[Gracie]

keep the mother and child together, but the dad must be separated and charged.

Most of them (mothers) don't know who the fathers are...so that won't work either.

Most? Is it easier to cast aspersions on the character of the people if all you really want is to hate and fear them? Or is this just good old fashioned xenophobia?

Oh, blow me. I have been pushed back THREE FUCKING TIMES due to an unwed mother that has shitloads of kids. So spare me your hand wringing. I am experiencing this shit FIRST HAND, bub. So stuff it.

So you know the difference between anecdotal evidence and facts?

Do you know the difference on having a roof or not, depending on the ho that squirts out shitloads of kids and get pushed in FRONT of legal citizens as well as VETERANS?

 

[Olde Europe]

Arguably, Trump inflicted the brutality on the immigrant kids to take them hostage as a bargaining chip to extract concessions from Democrats, such as funding for that ludicrous wall.

Children Taken at the Border Arrive in New York


The children arriving now, “ didn’t make the decision to come,” said Anthony Enriquez, the director of the unaccompanied minors program for Catholic Charities. “They said, ‘I just followed my mom here.’ I am dealing with that trauma, of family separation.”

But sending children back can be difficult because often the government does not know where the parent is, or, whether the parent has been deported ahead of the children.

“There is no system whatsoever to track these family separations, no efforts systematically to reunite these families,” Mr. Enriquez said. “There is no supervisor, there is no database saying, ‘child here, parent there,’ so they can come back together.”​

And now they've been losing track of the "chips".


Whatever anyone still needed to know about the catastrophe that is the Trump administration, after thousands of deaths in Puerto Rico, there it is.

Of course, the outlines of a reasonable immigration policy are all well known, from integrating as fast as possible those already there to staffing immigration courts so that cases can be swiftly decided, and it's immediately clear why Republicans balk at all of that.

Nothing of the above matters much, though, since the underlying problem is far more intractable than any of that, which is, the vast differences in life chances between south and north of the U.S.-Mexican border, caused in large part by the atrocious U.S. foreign and drug policies. So to speak, the chickens are coming home to roost, and, ironically enough, the nativist backlash (in relevant part) over immigration is threatening to do the Republic in from high on above and below at the same time. Democracy in the times of Trump. No one should say the goddess of history was ever found lacking in humor.

 

[TheGreenHornet]

This child separation issue is getting on my nerves, not only the imagery, but the game of political football going on. On one hand, I can't help but have sympathy for the children at the center of this debacle. I can't help but feel great anger towards the parents who chose to send their children thousands of miles north from Central America to the southern border, alone. On the other hand I want the law to be enforced. Sympathy should simply take a back seat. I find this conundrum troubling because both sides make valid points. This whole thing feels wrong to me.

So, what should be done?

Illegal immigration must be stopped....for many reasons but the main one being it is a threat to our national security.....all this hysteria over kids being seperated form their parents is nonsense.....as in it is just for a few days........but anyhow Trump just signed an executive order to stop the seperation of familes....but the hysteria will continue....on other thing and this has been pointed out but is being ignored by most....the obama administration also seperated kids from their families at the border and George Bush is the one who began it...yet his wife is boohooing along with the rest of the dopes.