What The Hell Does A Normal American Need An Army Assault Weapon For.....Target Practice?

[Skull Pilot]

Yes BrainDead you owning guns is fucking hilarious

 

[regent]

What the hell does an American need a Corvette for? Or a 60" television?
We don't need them but we want them!
Same is true for the AR15 or any other weapon of the same type. So you liberals just STFU up and deal with it!

Corvettes are certified sissy cars.

Sixty inch TV's are so hard to haul if one wants to do a mass shooting.

 

[Markle]

They have been in place for a long time and we are all better for it. You want terrorists to have explosives too eh?

I take it the victims of the Boston Marathon are irrelevant, immaterial and unimportant to you. Why? According to FBI interrogators, Dzhokhar and his brother were motivated by extremist Islamic beliefs. Boston Marathon bombing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How about Brussels? No guns, 32 victims and three perpetrators were killed, and over 300 people were injured. Another bomb was found during a search of the airport. Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) claimed responsibility for the attacks 2016 Brussels bombings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How about Paris? Multiple Suicide bombings followed by more bombings and shootings. The President of France, François Hollande, said the attacks were an act of war by ISIL. November 2015 Paris attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How about the San Bernardino shooting? In addition to the 14 killed, 22 others were seriously injured, either by bullets or other causes. FBI Director James B. Comey said that the FBI investigation has shown that Farook and Malik were "homegrown violent extremists" who were "inspired by foreign terrorist organizations."

How about Orlando? In a 9-1-1 call shortly after the attack began, he swore allegiance to the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL).

All the gun banning nuts, what do all these attacks have in common?

The issue is NOT guns, as much as President Obama demands we ignore the FACTS, THE ISSUE IS ISIS. RADICAL ISLAMIC TERRORISM.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

I would ban big cap magazines.

So you support making it easier for terrorists like Mateen to kill lots of gay people. Are you a homophobe?

Australia doesn't have a mass shooting problem...

Neither does the United States

 

[2aguy]

Define "Assault Weapon" in a way that can be clearly understood, and explain how banning such would "save lives." Unless you can do that - and no one in Congress can - then WTF is your point? Do you know what an "automatic" firearm is?

Do you believe that banning "assault weapons" will render terrorists incapable of murdering large numbers of people? Or will they just have to resort to other available means?

Why does any "normal" American need a street-legal car that will go 200mph? Why does any "normal" American need a 6,000 pound 4WD pickup truck to go to the grocery store? Why does any "normal" American need to eat a 1,000 calorie banana split? Why does any "normal" American need an 8,000 sq ft house? Why does any "normal" American need a PhD in music theory?

I'll try. An assault weapon is a much more effective weapon for killing a large number of human beings in a hurry: It has less recoil than a standard deer rifle (30-30 for example), a larger capacity magazine compared to the clip used in the M1 Garand and much lighter and easier to conceal than the BAR.

Any gun fired at anyone is technically an assault weapon

as is a baseball bat swung at another person

So many dead and the right still plays the definition games. Pathetic. We need to bring back the 10 rd mag limit.

Then someone will just fill their pockets with clips ready to go.

That is the problem with some They do not understand that you limit the rounds the person will to find a way around it. My Pump Action would meet their requirement and yet they do not know the damage I can do with a pump action shotgun.

Sometimes people need to take a course in guns to discover the answer is not as simple as banning a weapon...

They know.......the AR-15 is on their shopping list....once they exploit this muslim act of terrorism to get rifles with detachable magazines...they will pray to their god "Gun Control" in the hopes their god will give them another massacre.....with a shotgun...then they will go after shotguns after all, they will start to say...no one needs to hunt anymore....and who needs a shotgun to defend themselves...

They use the same bag of tricks every time....

 

[g5000]

I think the blacks will tell you the Muslims have a long way to catch up to the Klan as far as domestic terrorism and murders go.

Funny. I've never heard a right winger refer to the Klan as "radical Christianity". So we should probably follow their example.

 

[2aguy]

They have been in place for a long time and we are all better for it. You want terrorists to have explosives too eh?

I take it the victims of the Boston Marathon are irrelevant, immaterial and unimportant to you. Why? According to FBI interrogators, Dzhokhar and his brother were motivated by extremist Islamic beliefs. Boston Marathon bombing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How about Brussels? No guns, 32 victims and three perpetrators were killed, and over 300 people were injured. Another bomb was found during a search of the airport. Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) claimed responsibility for the attacks 2016 Brussels bombings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How about Paris? Multiple Suicide bombings followed by more bombings and shootings. The President of France, François Hollande, said the attacks were an act of war by ISIL. November 2015 Paris attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How about the San Bernardino shooting? In addition to the 14 killed, 22 others were seriously injured, either by bullets or other causes. FBI Director James B. Comey said that the FBI investigation has shown that Farook and Malik were "homegrown violent extremists" who were "inspired by foreign terrorist organizations."

How about Orlando? In a 9-1-1 call shortly after the attack began, he swore allegiance to the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL).

All the gun banning nuts, what do all these attacks have in common?

The issue is NOT guns, as much as President Obama demands we ignore the FACTS, THE ISSUE IS ISIS. RADICAL ISLAMIC TERRORISM.

sorry...the issue is exactly guns....the left could not care less that 49 gay people were killed.....as soon as they heard the news they started planning what they really care about, banning guns...

if a muslim had murdered people with pixie dust...they would say we need to ban guns.....

 

[Markle]

You would be just as safe with no gun. No need to be so scared and paranoid. I've never needed one either. In fact I know nobody who has.

Feel free to print this and put it on your front door.

 

[2aguy]

I think the blacks will tell you the Muslims have a long way to catch up to the Klan as far as domestic terrorism and murders go.

Funny. I've never heard a right winger call the Klan "radical Christianity". So we should probably follow their example.

Why do you keep brining the democrat party into this......those democrats in that photo have changed tactics...they don't have to murder blacks anymore because no matter how many blacks and republicans the democrats murdered, the blacks kept voting....so the democrats changed tactics....Lyndon Banes Johnson said that they would give out welfare to buy the votes of blacks...now blacks just murder each other, and show up to vote for democrats every election.

 

[g5000]

Booze, cars, guns, and swimming pools. God only knows how many millions these weapons of mass destruction have killed.


"All right. If you must have a car, at least put seat belts in it."

"FUCK YOU! FREEEEEEDOOOOOMMMMMMMM!!!!!!"

 

[g5000]

I think the blacks will tell you the Muslims have a long way to catch up to the Klan as far as domestic terrorism and murders go.

Funny. I've never heard a right winger call the Klan "radical Christianity". So we should probably follow their example.

Why do you keep brining the democrat party into this......those democrats in that photo have changed tactics...they don't have to murder blacks anymore because no matter how many blacks and republicans the democrats murdered, the blacks kept voting....so the democrats changed tactics....Lyndon Banes Johnson said that they would give out welfare to buy the votes of blacks...now blacks just murder each other, and show up to vote for democrats every election.

Those Southern conservative Christians aren't Democrats any more.

We're Republicans now. Vote for Trump!

 

[2aguy]

No bullshit on my part. You can not deny what I stated. The only thing you Liberals want to ban is extra plastic. It would be hilarious if this whole issue wasn't about infringing on the right of law abiding citizens.

I've been pretty clear I want the mag limit back. That forces the murderer to reload often. That is not just plastic.

What good is forcing him to reload more often if there is no one among the population of victims with a weapon who could take that opportunity to fire back?

There was a cop in Orlando having a shootout with him. I'm sure that cop would have wanted him to reload often.

Exactly. When there are weapons opposing the shooter, forcing reloads is a good thing. When the victims, however, are not armed it just delays their deaths by a few seconds.

Or it gives them a chance to stop the shooter like the giffords shooting.

See....you know the truth about the giffords shooting....you have seen it over and over again, then you lie about it......giffords shooting was simple dumb luck....nothing else.....magazine capacity and changing magazines had nothing to do with stopping the shooting...he shot a guy in the head and thought he killed him, he only grazed his skull....he turned his back on the guy and the guy got up and tackled him...since he had walked closer as he was shooting other people.....so no...magazine capacity would not have saved anyone

That you keep lying about the gifford's shooting, knowing the truth of it shows you to be a vile coward and a liar....

 

[2aguy]

I think the blacks will tell you the Muslims have a long way to catch up to the Klan as far as domestic terrorism and murders go.

Funny. I've never heard a right winger call the Klan "radical Christianity". So we should probably follow their example.

Why do you keep brining the democrat party into this......those democrats in that photo have changed tactics...they don't have to murder blacks anymore because no matter how many blacks and republicans the democrats murdered, the blacks kept voting....so the democrats changed tactics....Lyndon Banes Johnson said that they would give out welfare to buy the votes of blacks...now blacks just murder each other, and show up to vote for democrats every election.

Those Southern conservative Christians aren't Democrats any more.

We're Republicans now. Vote for Trump!

They have been and still are democrats....racism is at the heart and soul of the democrat party...Black Lives Matter, La Raza, al sharpton, jesse jackson....obama....all racists, and core groups in the democrat party....

 

[g5000]

"All right. If you must have booze, at least don't get behind the wheel when you are drunk."

"FUCK YOU! FREEEEEEDOOOOOMMMMMMMM!!!!!!"

 

[2aguy]

No bullshit on my part. You can not deny what I stated. The only thing you Liberals want to ban is extra plastic. It would be hilarious if this whole issue wasn't about infringing on the right of law abiding citizens.

I've been pretty clear I want the mag limit back. That forces the murderer to reload often. That is not just plastic.

What good is forcing him to reload more often if there is no one among the population of victims with a weapon who could take that opportunity to fire back?

There was a cop in Orlando having a shootout with him. I'm sure that cop would have wanted him to reload often.

Exactly. When there are weapons opposing the shooter, forcing reloads is a good thing. When the victims, however, are not armed it just delays their deaths by a few seconds.

Or it gives them a chance to stop the shooter like the giffords shooting.

The truth about magazine capacity and mass shootings...actual research, not brain talking out of his ass......

Large-Capacity Magazines and the Casualty Counts in Mass Shootings: The Plausibility of Linkages by Gary Kleck :: SSRN

Do bans on large-capacity magazines (LCMs) for semiautomatic firearms have significant potential for reducing the number of deaths and injuries in mass shootings?

The most common rationale for an effect of LCM use is that they allow mass killers to fire many rounds without reloading.
LCMs are used is less than 1/3 of 1% of mass shootings.

News accounts of 23 shootings in which more than six people were killed or wounded and LCMs were used, occurring in the U.S. in 1994-2013, were examined.

There was only one incident in which the shooter may have been stopped by bystander intervention when he tried to reload.


In all of these 23 incidents the shooter possessed either multiple guns or multiple magazines, meaning that the shooter, even if denied LCMs, could have continued firing without significant interruption by either switching loaded guns or by changing smaller loaded magazines with only a 2-4 second delay for each magazine change.


Finally, the data indicate that mass shooters maintain slow enough rates of fire such that the time needed to reload would not increase the time between shots and thus the time available for prospective victims to escape.

--------

We did not employ the oft-used definition of “mass murder” as a homicide in which four or more victims were killed, because most of these involve just four to six victims (Duwe 2007), which could therefore have involved as few as six rounds fired, a number that shooters using even ordinary revolvers are capable of firing without reloading.

LCMs obviously cannot help shooters who fire no more rounds than could be fired without LCMs, so the inclusion of “nonaffectable” cases with only four to six victims would dilute the sample, reducing the percent of sample incidents in which an LCM might have affected the number of casualties.

Further, had we studied only homicides with four or more dead victims, drawn from the FBI’s Supplementary Homicide Reports, we would have missed cases in which huge numbers of people were shot, and huge numbers of rounds were fired, but three or fewer of the victims died.


For example, in one widely publicized shooting carried out in Los Angeles on February 28, 1997, two bank robbers shot a total of 18 people - surely a mass shooting by any reasonable standard (Table 1).

Yet, because none of the people they shot died, this incident would not qualify as a mass murder (or even murder of any kind).

Exclusion of such incidents would bias the sample against the proposition that LCM use increases the number of victims by excluding incidents with large numbers of victims. We also excluded shootings in which more than six persons were shot over the entire course of the incident but shootings occurred in multiple locations with no more than six people shot in any one of the locations, and substantial periods of time intervened between episodes of shooting. An example is the series of killings committed by Rodrick Dantzler on July 7, 2011.

Once eligible incidents were identified, we searched through news accounts for details related to whether the use of LCMs could have influenced the casualty counts.

Specifically, we searched for

(1) the number of magazines in the shooter’s immediate possession,

(2) the capacity of the largest magazine,

(3) the number of guns in the shooter’s immediate possession during the incident,

(4) the types of guns possessed,

(5) whether the shooter reloaded during the incident,

(6) the number of rounds fired,

(7) the duration of the shooting from the first shot fired to the last, and (8) whether anyone intervened to stop the shooter.

Findings How Many Mass Shootings were Committed Using LCMs?

We identified 23 total incidents in which more than six people were shot at a single time and place in the U.S. from 1994 through 2013 and that were known to involve use of any magazines with capacities over ten rounds.


Table 1 summarizes key details of the LCMinvolved mass shootings relevant to the issues addressed in this paper.

(Table 1 about here) What fraction of all mass shootings involve LCMs?

There is no comprehensive listing of all mass shootings available for the entire 1994-2013 period, but the most extensive one currently available is at the Shootingtracker.com website, which only began its coverage in 2013.

-----

How Often Have Bystanders Intervened While a Mass Shooter Was Trying to Reload?

First, we consider the issue of how many times people have disrupted a mass shooting while the shooter was trying to load a detachable magazine into a semiautomatic gun.

Note that 16 it is irrelevant whether interveners have stopped a shooter while trying to reload some other type of gun, using other kinds of magazines, since we are addressing the potential significance of restrictions on the capacity of detachable magazines which are used only with semiautomatic firearms.

Thus, bystander intervention directed at shooters using other types of guns that take much longer to reload than a semiautomatic gun using detachable magazines could not provide any guidance as to the likelihood of bystander intervention when the shooter was using a semiautomatic gun equipped with detachable magazines that can be reloaded very quickly.

Prospective interveners would presumably be more likely to tackle a shooter who took a long time to reload than one who took only 2-4 seconds to do so.

Likewise, bystander interventions that occurred at a time when the shooter was not reloading (e.g., when he was struggling with a defective gun or magazine) are irrelevant, since that kind of intervention could occur regardless of what kinds of magazines or firearms the shooter was using.


It is the need to reload detachable magazines sooner and more often that differentiates shooters using smaller detachable magazines from those using larger ones.

For the period 1994-2013 inclusive, we identified three mass shooting incidents in which it was claimed that interveners disrupted the shooting by tackling the shooter while he was trying to reload.

In only one of the three cases, however, did interveners actually tackle the shooter while he may have been reloading a semiautomatic firearm.

In one of the incidents, the weapon in question was a shotgun that had to be reloaded by inserting one shotshell at a time into the weapon (Knoxville News Sentinel “Takedown of Alleged Shooter Recounted” July 29, 2008, regarding a shooting in Knoxville, TN on July 27, 2008), and so the incident is irrelevant to the effects of detachable LCMs.


In another incident, occurring in Springfield, Oregon on May 21, 1998, the shooter, Kip Kinkel, was using a semiautomatic gun, and he was tackled by bystanders, but not while he was reloading.

After exhausting the ammunition in one gun, the shooter started 17 firing another loaded gun, one of three firearms he had with him.

The first intervener was shot in the hand in the course of wresting this still-loaded gun away from the shooter (The (Portland) Oregonian, May 23, 1998).


The final case occurred in Tucson, AZ on January 8, 2011.

This is the shooting in which Jared Loughner attempted to assassinate Representative Gabrielle Giffords.

The shooter was using a semiautomatic firearm and was tackled by bystanders, purportedly while trying to reload a detachable magazine.

Even in this case, however, there were important uncertainties.

According to one news account, one bystander “grabbed a full magazine” that the shooter dropped, and two others helped subdue him (Associated Press, January 9, 2011).

It is not, however, clear whether this bystander intervention was facilitated because

(1) the shooter was reloading, or because

(2) the shooter stopping firing when his gun or magazine failed to function properly.

Eyewitness testimony, including that of the interveners, was inconsistent as to exactly why or how the intervention transpired in Giffords shooting.

One intervener insisted that he was sure the shooter had exhausted the ammunition in the first magazine (and thus was about to reload) because he saw the gun’s slide locked back – a condition he believed could only occur with this particular firearm after the last round is fired.

In fact, this can also happen when the guns jams, i.e. fails to chamber the next round (Salzgeber 2014; Morrill 2014).

Complicating matters further, the New York Times reported that the spring on the second magazine was broken, presumably rendering it incapable of functioning.

Their story’s headline and text characterized this mechanical failure as “perhaps the only fortunate event of the day” (New York Times “A Single, Terrifying Moment: Shots, Scuffle, Some Luck,” January 10, 2011, p. A1)

. If the New York Times account was accurate, the shooter would not have been able to continue shooting with that magazine even if no one had stopped him from loading it into his gun.

Detachable magazines of any size can malfunction, which would at least temporarily stop a prospective mass shooter from firing, and thereby provide an opportunity for bystanders to stop the shooter.
It is possible that the bystander intervention in the Tucson case could have occurred regardless of what size magazines the shooter possessed, since a shooter struggling with a defective small-capacity magazine would be just as vulnerable to disruption as one struggling with a defective large-capacity magazine. Thus, it remains unclear whether the shooter was reloading when the bystanders tackled him.
-----
The offenders in LCM-involved mass shootings were also known to have reloaded during 14 of the 23 (61%) incidents with magazine holding over 10 rounds.

The shooters were known to have not reloaded in another two of these 20 incidents and it could not be determined if they reloaded in the remaining seven incidents.

Thus, even if the shooters had been denied LCMs, we know that most of them definitely would have been able to reload smaller detachable magazines without interference from bystanders since they in fact did change magazines.

The fact that this percentage is less than 100% should not, however, be interpreted to mean that the shooters were unable to reload in the other nine incidents.

It is possible that the shooters could also have reloaded in many of these nine shootings, but chose not to do so, or did not need to do so in order to fire all the rounds they wanted to fire. This is consistent with the fact that there has been at most only one mass shootings in twenty years in which reloading a semiautomatic firearm might have been blocked by bystanders intervening and thereby stopping the shooter from doing all the shooting he wanted to do. All we know is that in two incidents the shooter did not reload, and news accounts of seven other incidents did not mention whether the offender reloaded.

----

For example, a story in the Hartford Courant about the Sandy Hook elementary school killings in 2012 was headlined “Shooter Paused, and Six Escaped,” the text asserting that as many as six children may have survived because the shooter paused to reload (December 23, 2012). ''

The author of the story, however, went on to concede that this was just a speculation by an unnamed source, and that it was also possible that some children simply escaped when the killer was shooting other children.

There was no reliable evidence that the pauses were due to the shooter reloading, rather than his guns jamming or the shooter simply choosing to pause his shooting while his gun was still loaded.

The plausibility of the “victims escape” rationale depends on the average rates of fire that shooters in mass shootings typically maintain.

If they fire very fast, the 2-4 seconds it takes to change box-type detachable magazines could produce a slowing of the rate of fire that the shooters otherwise would have maintained without the magazine changes, increasing the average time between rounds fired and potentially allowing more victims to escape during the betweenshot intervals.

On the other hand, if mass shooters fire their guns with the average interval between shots lasting more than 2-4 seconds, the pauses due to additional magazine changes would be no longer than the pauses the shooter typically took between shots even when not reloading.

In that case, there would be no more opportunity for potential victims to escape than there would have been without the additional magazine changes

-----

In sum, in nearly all LCM-involved mass shootings, the time it takes to reload a detachable magazine is no greater than the average time between shots that the shooter takes anyway when not reloading.

Consequently, there is no affirmative evidence that reloading detachable magazines slows mass shooters’ rates of fire, and thus no affirmative evidence that the number of victims who could escape the killers due to additional pauses in the shooting is increased by the shooter’s need to change magazines.

 

[g5000]

Nope. I've looked on Google, and there isn't a single case of anyone referring to the Klan terrorists as "radical Christianity".

We should follow that precedent.

 

[2aguy]

This idea of the NRA governing the types of weapons available in gun shops is rank bull shit! Why is it that we're the only industrialized nation in the world which feels the necessity of a ordinary citizen to go armed with a killing machine?

They should not be able to. Look at the carnage at Orlando, nobody should be able to own one.

34 years....deaths by Rifles with detachable magazines... 149

one year, death by knives..... 1,567

they are not a problem.

50 dead in just one shooting.

34 years..... Rifles with detachable magazines killed 149 people...

One year, 2014, knives murdered 1,567, and every year before that over 1,000 people were killed...

Rifles are not a problem.....and you know that..you just think you can get them, then you will go after the next gun on your list.

 

[g5000]

They have been and still are democrats..

Nope.

We're Republicans now. Vote for Trump!

 

[g5000]

I remember reading a statistic. More people have been strangled to death with bare hands than have been killed by assault weapons.

 

[2aguy]

I'll try. An assault weapon is a much more effective weapon for killing a large number of human beings in a hurry: It has less recoil than a standard deer rifle (30-30 for example), a larger capacity magazine compared to the clip used in the M1 Garand and much lighter and easier to conceal than the BAR.

Any gun fired at anyone is technically an assault weapon

as is a baseball bat swung at another person

So many dead and the right still plays the definition games. Pathetic. We need to bring back the 10 rd mag limit.

Then someone will just fill their pockets with clips ready to go.

And then they have to fumble around and grab the next one. Then they might drop one. Seconds save lives.

You didn't answer my questions but I saw where you want 10 rd mags.

Would we be allowed to have as many mags as we wanted?

There are millions of mags already in existence, how would you gather all these up?

Magazine capacity has no bearing on mass shootings...don't bother with brain.....he will get 10 round magazines and in the next mass shootings he will take those too......since you only need 6 shots in a revolver.....he is a gun banner through and through, don't give him the courtesy of expectin a rational discussion with him.