What's Christian About Denying Service To Any Individual?

[Quantum Windbag]

The vendor in question, and the Arizona and Kansas laws are written due to individuals claiming Christianity is prohibiting them from providing services to homosexuals.

uh, no.....they said they chose not to bake a cake for a gay wedding because they believed that gay marriage was wrong......the gay couple admitted in the law suit that they were frequent customers of the shop and that the manager had sold them baked goods even though he knew they were a gay couple.....obviously it was not their homosexuality that he objected to, but their marriage ceremony......

It would be interesting to know why the bible left out the part where Jesus says: "Let no gays marry". Or did I miss that part?

Did you read the Bible from cover to cover?

Didn't think so.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Bull. Are Civil rights laws seen as coercive? How about speed limits?

The damage is the discrimination. The damage is done by the repression. Blaming the state to assure equality in accommodation is a truly lowly form of rationalization.

the bakery was put out of business......do you pretend that isn't damage?.......

Why was the business shut down? By decree of the state? Or because society refused to trade with a bigoted business?

Because a bunch of bigots made it their job to threaten the owners and their children, not to mention their employees. One would think that a principled person who hates bigotry would have stood up for that bakery and defended their right to be free of the threat of force.

That explains why you weren't there.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Bull. Are Civil rights laws seen as coercive? How about speed limits?

The damage is the discrimination. The damage is done by the repression. Blaming the state to assure equality in accommodation is a truly lowly form of rationalization.

Let me make it simple for you, this is everything you need to know about the government and force.

• Without force, there would be no government.
• Everything the government does is coercion.
• Force is the only real tool the government has.
• Government=Force.

Any questions?

Would you prefer Anarchy or mob rule?

Why are you afraid of freedom?

Look at that, I not only don't get defensive when an idiot attacks a position I don't have, I actually manage to illustrate the absurdity of the attack by actually pointing out the flaw in their position.

For the record, recognizing the fact that the government exists only because it has a monopoly on force is not proof I support mob rule. It is, however, a position that actually allows me to have a discussion that is based in reality.

By the way, did you notice that every single Christian who was willing to try and tell me that I am wrong about Jesus has actually left this thread? Could that be because, despite your pathetic attempt to make this about hatred, I actually proved that it isn't, at least to their satisfaction? Yet you, being the elf declared expert on all things hate, still insist that I am spouting hate because I refuse to let you force your position down everyone's throat in the name of enlightenment.

 

[Bumberclyde]

uh, no.....they said they chose not to bake a cake for a gay wedding because they believed that gay marriage was wrong......the gay couple admitted in the law suit that they were frequent customers of the shop and that the manager had sold them baked goods even though he knew they were a gay couple.....obviously it was not their homosexuality that he objected to, but their marriage ceremony......

It would be interesting to know why the bible left out the part where Jesus says: "Let no gays marry". Or did I miss that part?

Did you read the Bible from cover to cover?

Didn't think so.

Jesus actually admitted to Mary Magdalene that he was gay. It just didn't make it to the bible.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Slave holders did it. Bigots did it. And now the hypocrites are doing it. Wrapping themselves in mis-interpretations of both the Bible and the constitution to rationalize unChristian and unconstitutional positions.

Let's get real. Christians believe in the divinity and the teachings of Jesus Christ. He taught those who are without sin should cast the first stone. He taught judge not lest ye be judged. He commanded that we love one another. How can those most basic I tenets be ignored just so hated, fear ans suspicion be rationalized?

If misguided bigots want to use what they perceive as their "religious beliefs" as an aegis to hide behind in order to act in an unChristian way, they should post a sign in their shop window so any sinners don't accidentally stray into their bigoted businesses. The sign should clearly state: DUE TO OUR FERVENT BELIEF IN THE TEACHINGS OF JESUS CHRIST WHO SAID JUDGE NOT LEST YE BE JUDGED, WE RESERVE THE RIGHT TO DISCRIMINATE AGAINST OUR FELLOW AMERICAN CITIZENS!

Then we can sit back and see how long their business survives.

Religious freedom! What a crock!

Yes, bigots always have, and always will, attempt to use the government to force other people to be like them, which is why I will fight you every step of the way.

No laws were written to 'force' anyone to "be like them". These laws were unique in today's age in that they were laws written to promote bigotry. We haven't seen laws like this since the darkest days of Jim Crow.

What is the difference between Woolworth's refusing service to Blacks and the Arizona and Kansas laws giving legal cover to vendors to refuse service?

The Social Conservatives were on the wrong side of history 50 years ago and, to no one's surprise, they are on the wrong side today. The wrong side of history and the wrong side of any thinking person's definition of "freedom".

Protecting bigotry by using faith is not new. The Taliban uses it. So called Christians in Arizona and Kansas are using it. It's always the "fundamentalists" who try this tactic. Is it their insular social condition, their inability to appreciate the qualities of their neighbors, or their mis interpretations of scripture?

No law was written that forces people with religious beliefs to leave those beliefs at home? Why are there stories like this then?

Christians should 'leave their beliefs at home or get another job' - Telegraph

Being a bigot, you probably think that is a great idea, thus making my point.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The irony in all this is that cons like to tell us discrimination laws should be abolished because the invisible hand of the free market will decide and put discriminators out of business --

yet when that invisible hand shows itself, they bitch and moan: Mob! They toook dere jerbs!

The idiocy is that you think using the government to force people to do things proves you are right.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

He called the couple "an abomination" and said their money was not equal.

The Bureau of Labor and Industry found "substantial evidence" unlawfully refused service to the lesbian couple.

Color me surprised. Law and Order cons not wanting to follow the law.

The problem with your claim is that the couple admitted in court documents that they shopped their on a daily basis, and that he knew they were gay.

On the other hand, you have the fake Facebook page, so I guess that trumps actual facts stipulated by both sides of the issue.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It would be interesting to know why the bible left out the part where Jesus says: "Let no gays marry". Or did I miss that part?

Did you read the Bible from cover to cover?

Didn't think so.

Jesus actually admitted to Mary Magdalene that he was gay. It just didn't make it to the bible.

You know this because you were there, right?

 

[PostmodernProph]

He called the couple "an abomination" and said their money was not equal.

link?....

 

[PostmodernProph]

By openly being a hater. Just like if he'd have said: I don't serve *******. He brings it on himself because he wants attention to the fact that he's a hater. Like I said, he could have simply said, I don't sell those, try online, or something.

lol....did he call a press conference and say "I am not going to bake a cake for a gay couple"?......or was that the couple.....

So if he had said "I don't serve *******", the black people should just have shut up and taken it? Geez, Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton would have ripped each other's hair out already and Obummer would have had a beer with the couple by now.

???.....oh look, how did the goalposts end up way over there.......I will ask again, how did he make a "big splashy show".....

 

[PostmodernProph]

It would be interesting to know why the bible left out the part where Jesus says: "Let no gays marry". Or did I miss that part?

Did you read the Bible from cover to cover?

Didn't think so.

Jesus actually admitted to Mary Magdalene that he was gay. It just didn't make it to the bible.

lol.....+1 to ignorance.....

 

[paperview]

He called the couple "an abomination" and said their money was not equal.

link?....

So, you're not even familiar with the story from the git-go, are you?

Some of us have been following it since it first broke last year, with hundreds and hundreds of posts.

You can start with this>

Aaron Klein complaint: Baker refuses to make wedding cake for lesbian couple and 'calls them abominations unto the Lord' | Mail Online

And this, for more background:

It looks like Aaron and Melissa Klein can't stay out of the media spotlight -- but that's what happens when you anger a group of more than 4 Million people. A lesbian couple is suing the pants off the two after they were discriminated against several months ago. The Kleins thought they were in the clear when they didn't face the same legal troubles faced by the owner of Arlene's Flowers out of Washington state, but they were totally wrong.


Rachel N. Cryer went to the bakery to get a wedding cake for her upcoming wedding to her partner Laurel, but it didn't come out that the cake would be for a same sex wedding until Aaron Klein -- the co-owner -- asked for the names of the bride and groom.



When she responded that the cake would be for 'Rachel and Laurel' he responded with a discriminatory sentence that may just end his business in the state of Oregon. He told her that Sweet Cakes by Melissa does not provide its services to same sex weddings.



He cited his religious stance, being a Christian, and allegedly reduced Rachel to tears by referring to her as an abomination.


It's bad enough that these people are violating a law established in their state, but they are pretty much lying by claiming that they "don't have anything against homosexuals." On the contrary, I have had encounters with Aaron Klein and his family members personally, and have found the family to be just as bigoted as Rachel N. Cryer has claimed.



In fact, I have documented my exchanges with the Kleins, and have written about it extensively. So there is most certainly a paper trail that can serve as evidence against Aaron and Melissa Klein as being disparaging toward homosexuals and civil rights in their discrimination of same sex couples. So officials with the state of Oregon will have no shortage of evidence against them.

'Sweet Cakes' bigotry: My encounters with Aaron Klein

That was written last year. As it turned out, just as the writer predicted, the bakers were found by the EEOC of violating the law - with "substantial evidence.""

 

[Bumberclyde]

lol....did he call a press conference and say "I am not going to bake a cake for a gay couple"?......or was that the couple.....

So if he had said "I don't serve *******", the black people should just have shut up and taken it? Geez, Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton would have ripped each other's hair out already and Obummer would have had a beer with the couple by now.

???.....oh look, how did the goalposts end up way over there.......I will ask again, how did he make a "big splashy show".....

Saying something offensive to someone and then blaming them when it blows up in your face is laughable.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

So if he had said "I don't serve *******", the black people should just have shut up and taken it? Geez, Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton would have ripped each other's hair out already and Obummer would have had a beer with the couple by now.

???.....oh look, how did the goalposts end up way over there.......I will ask again, how did he make a "big splashy show".....

Saying something offensive to someone and then blaming them when it blows up in your face is laughable.

"I am sorry, I don't want to go to your wedding," is offensive?

 

[Chuckt]

Actually, there are laws that forbid a bartender to serve a drunk person. Please try again.

And those would be discriminatory laws to you.

No, more like common sense. Try it sometimes.

Except you would have a problem with the Arizona Law if enacted into law.
Therefore it is common sense. You are using a cop out so it isn't making sense other than you don't have an argument.

 

[Bumberclyde]

And those would be discriminatory laws to you.

No, more like common sense. Try it sometimes.

Except you would have a problem with the Arizona Law if enacted into law.
Therefore it is common sense. You are using a cop out so it isn't making sense other than you don't have an argument.

Bill vetoed, homophobes lose again. Please try again.

 

[Chuckt]

No, more like common sense. Try it sometimes.

Except you would have a problem with the Arizona Law if enacted into law.
Therefore it is common sense. You are using a cop out so it isn't making sense other than you don't have an argument.

Bill vetoed, homophobes lose again. Please try again.

And you ran away without making an argument.

 

[paperview]

He called the couple "an abomination" and said their money was not equal.

The Bureau of Labor and Industry found "substantial evidence" unlawfully refused service to the lesbian couple.

Color me surprised. Law and Order cons not wanting to follow the law.

The problem with your claim is that the couple admitted in court documents that they shopped their on a daily basis, and that he knew they were gay.

On the other hand, you have the fake Facebook page, so I guess that trumps actual facts stipulated by both sides of the issue.

Produce the "court documents."

 

[PostmodernProph]

He called the couple "an abomination" and said their money was not equal.

link?....

So, you're not even familiar with the story from the git-go, are you?

Some of us have been following it since it first broke last year, with hundreds and hundreds of posts.

You can start with this>

Aaron Klein complaint: Baker refuses to make wedding cake for lesbian couple and 'calls them abominations unto the Lord' | Mail Online

And this, for more background:

It looks like Aaron and Melissa Klein can't stay out of the media spotlight -- but that's what happens when you anger a group of more than 4 Million people. A lesbian couple is suing the pants off the two after they were discriminated against several months ago. The Kleins thought they were in the clear when they didn't face the same legal troubles faced by the owner of Arlene's Flowers out of Washington state, but they were totally wrong.


Rachel N. Cryer went to the bakery to get a wedding cake for her upcoming wedding to her partner Laurel, but it didn't come out that the cake would be for a same sex wedding until Aaron Klein -- the co-owner -- asked for the names of the bride and groom.



When she responded that the cake would be for 'Rachel and Laurel' he responded with a discriminatory sentence that may just end his business in the state of Oregon. He told her that Sweet Cakes by Melissa does not provide its services to same sex weddings.



He cited his religious stance, being a Christian, and allegedly reduced Rachel to tears by referring to her as an abomination.


It's bad enough that these people are violating a law established in their state, but they are pretty much lying by claiming that they "don't have anything against homosexuals." On the contrary, I have had encounters with Aaron Klein and his family members personally, and have found the family to be just as bigoted as Rachel N. Cryer has claimed.



In fact, I have documented my exchanges with the Kleins, and have written about it extensively. So there is most certainly a paper trail that can serve as evidence against Aaron and Melissa Klein as being disparaging toward homosexuals and civil rights in their discrimination of same sex couples. So officials with the state of Oregon will have no shortage of evidence against them.

'Sweet Cakes' bigotry: My encounters with Aaron Klein

That was written last year. As it turned out, just as the writer predicted, the bakers were found by the EEOC of violating the law - with "substantial evidence.""

oh wait.....you mean the allegation which he has denied......now I understand.....

 

[Quantum Windbag]

He called the couple "an abomination" and said their money was not equal.

The Bureau of Labor and Industry found "substantial evidence" unlawfully refused service to the lesbian couple.

Color me surprised. Law and Order cons not wanting to follow the law.

The problem with your claim is that the couple admitted in court documents that they shopped their on a daily basis, and that he knew they were gay.

On the other hand, you have the fake Facebook page, so I guess that trumps actual facts stipulated by both sides of the issue.

Produce the "court documents."

Go dig them out of one of the threads where they were posted from when I used them to prove that the Facebook page, and the story you just linked to, were lies.