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you wrote" An individual worker is in a poor bargaining position, because he needs a job more than the employer needs an employee"
I heard once about General Electric that use to build electric locomotives.
They decided to capture all the knowledge of some old timers before those that knew the "secrets" passed on.
Come time to talk several "old timers" Quit!
Formed a consulting firm. Signed a contract for 50 times what they were paid and
GE was happy.. didn't have to pay SS/Medicare/etc.. and old timers?? Happy with nearly 50 times what they were making before all with the same information they gained over 40 years working for GE!
you wrote" An individual worker is in a poor bargaining position, because he needs a job more than the employer needs an employee"
I heard once about General Electric that use to build electric locomotives.
They decided to capture all the knowledge of some old timers before those that knew the "secrets" passed on.
Come time to talk several "old timers" Quit!
Formed a consulting firm. Signed a contract for 50 times what they were paid and
GE was happy.. didn't have to pay SS/Medicare/etc.. and old timers?? Happy with nearly 50 times what they were making before all with the same information they gained over 40 years working for GE!
Good point
The key is bargaining power. Most individuals do not have bargaining power. Most employers would willingly sacrifice a good worker if it will keep other workers in line
Workers have more strength as a group than they do individually. Industry prefers to restrict the ability of employees to operate with collective bargaining
point is NO UNION was involved!
point is NO UNION was involved!
The consulting firm served the same purpose. It was still collective bargaining.
Except every member of the firm agreed to it. Union members have no such power. Further, if the company didnt like what the consulting firm was offering, they could hire a different consulting firm down the street. How does that work out with unionized shops? It doesn't.
Well, if you want to say that a consulting firm is entering an entirely different field of contracting than workers on a factory floor, which is true in many ways, then your entire analogy falls to pieces and you can go back and retract your original post about this as irrelevant to the discussion.
That might in fact be the best course of action, being the most truthful and honest. If you're interested in such values.
When has a union created a job?
How many are paid to eliminate unions?
Unions started out to improve jobs for workers not to create them.
When has a union created a job?
How many are paid to eliminate unions?
Unions started out to improve jobs for workers not to create them.
It appears they accomplished that goal, we have laws that reflect that. Now that their work is done, they should just disband. The private sector doesn't want them, so they have weaseled their way into the government sector so they can get their perks and require all government jobs be paid at "prevailing wage aka union wages.
Unions are so yesterday, they do nothing but drive up costs.
Unions started out to improve jobs for workers not to create them.
It appears they accomplished that goal, we have laws that reflect that.
Unions started out to improve jobs for workers not to create them.
It appears they accomplished that goal, we have laws that reflect that.
The purpose of unions is not to push laws through Congress. It's to provide workers with a way to bargain with employers as equals. As long as we have an economy in which most people are in paid servitude to a relatively small number of others constituting an owner class, we will need unions. Their job will never be done.
Unions started out to improve jobs for workers not to create them.
It appears they accomplished that goal, we have laws that reflect that.
The purpose of unions is not to push laws through Congress. It's to provide workers with a way to bargain with employers as equals. As long as we have an economy in which most people are in paid servitude to a relatively small number of others constituting an owner class, we will need unions. Their job will never be done.
you are aware that unions UNINENTIONALLY protect the ones with the lower work ethic at the expense of those with a greater work ethic?
When has a union created a job?
Or for that matter.. when has a group of poor people created jobs?
Or why don't we declare ALL businesses are NONPROFIT!
Which means there will be committees , i.e. central planners in D.C. that will tell all oil, transportation, manufacturers how often they will drill, or pump or when cars can be on the roads, or how many iPads can be built because
Central planning" says there isn't enough lithium available for the batteries because Central planning hasn't signed the Afghanistan agreement from China!
NOT for profits meaning NO Federal income/state/local/sales or property taxes!
Come on all of you are in favor of withdrawing from these evil profit making banks and putting into those kindly nonprofit credit unions right???
AFter all they have "union" in their name!
So who will pay the property taxes after all NONPROFITS are exempt!
Again.. tell me all you OWS supporters.. why not do away with ALL evil for profit companies?
Because that seems to be the logical extension!
I think "business agent" is a job created by unions.
Union Business Agent Job Description, Career as an Union Business Agent, Salary, Employment - Definition and Nature of the Work, Education and Training Requirements, Getting the Job - StateUniversity.com
They've probably created jobs for lawyers also.
would you say that all members of a union are equals as it pertains to work ethic?
If not (and the answer is no), then why should they be entitled to bargain with employers as equals?
Who does that help and who does it hurt?
you are aware that unions UNINENTIONALLY protect the ones with the lower work ethic at the expense of those with a greater work ethic?
I'm aware that happens sometimes, but it strikes me as a small problem compared to what employers routinely do when not constrained by unions.
A campaign to change offending union rules might make sense. A campaign to do away with unions on this ground is like amputating an arm to cure a hangnail.
Or for that matter.. when has a group of poor people created jobs?
Or why don't we declare ALL businesses are NONPROFIT!
Which means there will be committees , i.e. central planners in D.C. that will tell all oil, transportation, manufacturers how often they will drill, or pump or when cars can be on the roads, or how many iPads can be built because
Central planning" says there isn't enough lithium available for the batteries because Central planning hasn't signed the Afghanistan agreement from China!
NOT for profits meaning NO Federal income/state/local/sales or property taxes!
Come on all of you are in favor of withdrawing from these evil profit making banks and putting into those kindly nonprofit credit unions right???
AFter all they have "union" in their name!
So who will pay the property taxes after all NONPROFITS are exempt!
Again.. tell me all you OWS supporters.. why not do away with ALL evil for profit companies?
Because that seems to be the logical extension!
would you say that all members of a union are equals as it pertains to work ethic?
If not (and the answer is no), then why should they be entitled to bargain with employers as equals?
Because the alternative is to allow the employers to call all the shots, to the detriment of ALL workers, including those with the best work ethic.
Who does that help and who does it hurt?
It helps all workers. It also helps the companies they work for by pushing wages up across the economy, and so increasing consumer demand, which helps the economy.
In non union environemtns, better empolyees get raises
In non union environemtns, better empolyees get raises
Which means that the better employees are being paid more than the rest of them. But it doesn't mean those better employees are being paid more than they would be if they had a union.
In non union environemtns, better empolyees get raises
Which means that the better employees are being paid more than the rest of them. But it doesn't mean those better employees are being paid more than they would be if they had a union.
