When is Pro-Life pro-life?

[Coyote]

Chuz Life

How can you justify the death penalty knowing that innocent human beings end up getting killed?

It's interesting how you keep avoiding this question.

 

[Coyote]

Discussions like this chill me to the bone.

Leftists making it clear that they can't distinguish between innocent unborn lives, and the lives of those who commit atrocities, says so, so much about their politics. They're admitting they have zero moral compass, which explains . . . pretty much everything about leftism.


For the record, there is no contradiction between being pro-life and pro-death penalty, given that those who are eligible for the death penalty have proven themselves to be sub-human.

That is being dishonest.

You did suggest darling that pro-Life care more about the unborn and don't care enough about those on Death Row.

There is a fundamental difference between 100% innocent babies In Utero who have committed no wrong or hurt anyone and those who are sitting on Death Row.

What I said was this: a consistent pro-life ethic cares about the dignity of all life.

The argument given by some is that SOME innocent life is worth more than OTHER innocent life.

So...I'm asking, what is the difference between an innocent unborn child and an innocent man on death row that means his life is worth less?

ALL unborn children are innocent, not a one of them has done anything to warrant a death sentence. A person on death row has been found guilty and sentenced to death by a judge and jury and has gone through the years of appeals; how are we to know he/she is innocent? Those who oppose the death sentence believe that we as a society should not be risking the taking of an innocent person's life even with all the safeguards we have in place these days. But that person has had his/her day in court, whereas the unborn has not, and that's why the 2 situations are different IMHO. FWIW, I used to support the death penalty myself but no longer. I would however stipulate that any person found guilty of a crime worthy of a death sentence should be locked up for life with no eligibility for parole.

Does it matter if a person has had his day in court, but is innocent and being executed? The system is flawed, and it is KNOWN to be flawed - so knowing this, you still go on with it. You CHOOSE to execute someone who might be innocent because the system is flawed or corrupt so in the end there is no difference imo. It's still an innocent person dying with the awareness of knowing he is being killed for a crime he did not commit.

Totally agree with lock up for life.

 

[Chuz Life]

....

Pro-some-lifers shouldn't throw stones from glass houses...

There ain't nothing glass about my house.

You can't be pro-life and still support capital punishment.

1. BULL SHIT.
2. Not everyone who opposes abortion are pro life and believe in that "every life is sacred" bullshit.

For example, being "prolife" doesn't mean one has to give up their right to self defense or the right to defend others. The better term would be "pro innocent life" but most people above the education of a middle scool student should be able to discern that without having to be enlightened further on it.

A consistent pro-life ethic allows for self defense or the defense of others but not for capital punishment - willfully taking another's life. It's not bull shit. It's about a consistent ethic. You call pro-choice "pro-abort" - yet you can be pro-choice and not personally support abortion. It's supporting a woman's choice.

I admire truly pro-life people - they are consistent from conception to tomb because human life matters, not the subjective determination of "innocence". I wish I was at that ethical point, but I'm not.

Correct.

In fact, everyone is pro-life, including those who defend a woman’s right to privacy.

The issue of abortion is separate and apart from government seeking to compel a woman to give birth against her will through force of law.

Indeed, citizens are at liberty pursue solutions that will bring about the end of the practice, provided those solutions comport with the Constitution and its case law.

The Constitution says all persons are entitled to the equal protections of our laws.

Read my signature to see what the Supreme court anticipated about that. . . When they were deciding Roe.

 

[Chuz Life]

Chuz Life

How can you justify the death penalty knowing that innocent human beings end up getting killed?

It's interesting how you keep avoiding this question.

I haven't avoided shit, dumbass.

I am at work and have only limited time to read posts, let alone to respond to them while on breaks.

The short answer is with the Constitution. That's all the justification I need. Even as I can accept it is not perfect. It's worked pretty good for 250 years.

 

[Coyote]

Chuz Life

How can you justify the death penalty knowing that innocent human beings end up getting killed?

It's interesting how you keep avoiding this question.

I haven't avoided shit, dumbass.

I am at work and have only limited time to read posts, let alone to respond to them while on breaks.

Hasn't stopped you from responding to this though

 

[task0778]

Discussions like this chill me to the bone.

Leftists making it clear that they can't distinguish between innocent unborn lives, and the lives of those who commit atrocities, says so, so much about their politics. They're admitting they have zero moral compass, which explains . . . pretty much everything about leftism.


For the record, there is no contradiction between being pro-life and pro-death penalty, given that those who are eligible for the death penalty have proven themselves to be sub-human.

That is being dishonest.

You did suggest darling that pro-Life care more about the unborn and don't care enough about those on Death Row.

There is a fundamental difference between 100% innocent babies In Utero who have committed no wrong or hurt anyone and those who are sitting on Death Row.

What I said was this: a consistent pro-life ethic cares about the dignity of all life.

The argument given by some is that SOME innocent life is worth more than OTHER innocent life.

So...I'm asking, what is the difference between an innocent unborn child and an innocent man on death row that means his life is worth less?

ALL unborn children are innocent, not a one of them has done anything to warrant a death sentence. A person on death row has been found guilty and sentenced to death by a judge and jury and has gone through the years of appeals; how are we to know he/she is innocent? Those who oppose the death sentence believe that we as a society should not be risking the taking of an innocent person's life even with all the safeguards we have in place these days. But that person has had his/her day in court, whereas the unborn has not, and that's why the 2 situations are different IMHO. FWIW, I used to support the death penalty myself but no longer. I would however stipulate that any person found guilty of a crime worthy of a death sentence should be locked up for life with no eligibility for parole.

Does it matter if a person has had his day in court, but is innocent and being executed? The system is flawed, and it is KNOWN to be flawed - so knowing this, you still go on with it. You CHOOSE to execute someone who might be innocent because the system is flawed or corrupt so in the end there is no difference imo. It's still an innocent person dying with the awareness of knowing he is being killed for a crime he did not commit.

Totally agree with lock up for life.

To me the 2 cases are different because the innocent person on death row had his rights and executed them, whereas the unborn child has no rights at all.

 

[Coyote]

That is being dishonest.

You did suggest darling that pro-Life care more about the unborn and don't care enough about those on Death Row.

There is a fundamental difference between 100% innocent babies In Utero who have committed no wrong or hurt anyone and those who are sitting on Death Row.

What I said was this: a consistent pro-life ethic cares about the dignity of all life.

The argument given by some is that SOME innocent life is worth more than OTHER innocent life.

So...I'm asking, what is the difference between an innocent unborn child and an innocent man on death row that means his life is worth less?

ALL unborn children are innocent, not a one of them has done anything to warrant a death sentence. A person on death row has been found guilty and sentenced to death by a judge and jury and has gone through the years of appeals; how are we to know he/she is innocent? Those who oppose the death sentence believe that we as a society should not be risking the taking of an innocent person's life even with all the safeguards we have in place these days. But that person has had his/her day in court, whereas the unborn has not, and that's why the 2 situations are different IMHO. FWIW, I used to support the death penalty myself but no longer. I would however stipulate that any person found guilty of a crime worthy of a death sentence should be locked up for life with no eligibility for parole.

Does it matter if a person has had his day in court, but is innocent and being executed? The system is flawed, and it is KNOWN to be flawed - so knowing this, you still go on with it. You CHOOSE to execute someone who might be innocent because the system is flawed or corrupt so in the end there is no difference imo. It's still an innocent person dying with the awareness of knowing he is being killed for a crime he did not commit.

Totally agree with lock up for life.

To me the 2 cases are different because the innocent person on death row had his rights and executed them, whereas the unborn child has no rights at all.

I guess I don't see it that way...because...what's the use of "rights" when the system is corrupt? An innocent person still gets killed and if you are truly pro-life that should matter. It should matter a lot.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

I've moved the posts over to this thead so we can continue discussion.

Aw-HA

That's how I got lost.

Now I just have to figure out where my pro-life post went!


Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com

 

[Chuz Life]

Chuz Life

How can you justify the death penalty knowing that innocent human beings end up getting killed?

It's interesting how you keep avoiding this question.

I haven't avoided shit, dumbass.

I am at work and have only limited time to read posts, let alone to respond to them while on breaks.

Hasn't stopped you from responding to this though

I just clocked out, moron.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

Discussions like this chill me to the bone.

Leftists making it clear that they can't distinguish between innocent unborn lives, and the lives of those who commit atrocities, says so, so much about their politics. They're admitting they have zero moral compass, which explains . . . pretty much everything about leftism.


For the record, there is no contradiction between being pro-life and pro-death penalty, given that those who are eligible for the death penalty have proven themselves to be sub-human.

That is being dishonest.

You did suggest darling that pro-Life care more about the unborn and don't care enough about those on Death Row.

There is a fundamental difference between 100% innocent babies In Utero who have committed no wrong or hurt anyone and those who are sitting on Death Row.

What I said was this: a consistent pro-life ethic cares about the dignity of all life.

The argument given by some is that SOME innocent life is worth more than OTHER innocent life.

So...I'm asking, what is the difference between an innocent unborn child and an innocent man on death row that means his life is worth less?

Well a part of the difference is that people are innocent until proved guilty.

So if we take an unborn child there is no argument as an unborn child is the most innocent of innocent, they are 100% free of guilt.

Someone who is arrested, put on trial, convicted by a jury on usually DNA evidence is found guilty, so on that basis there is no innocence.

I refer back to a previous comment of mine, the ratio between those executed who were 100% guilty as proven and the cases where people have been executed only for several years later it was found they were actually innocent of the crime.

I accept that years ago pre-DNA evidence there were cases where innocent people were wrongly executed, but in contemporary times how frequent is an innocent person executed?

 

[Eloy]

"Pro Life" is best understood as Pro Birth. The Christian Fundamentalists want babies to be born and after that they have only unconcern for human rights and the wellbeing of the needy.

 

[task0778]

You did suggest darling that pro-Life care more about the unborn and don't care enough about those on Death Row.

There is a fundamental difference between 100% innocent babies In Utero who have committed no wrong or hurt anyone and those who are sitting on Death Row.

What I said was this: a consistent pro-life ethic cares about the dignity of all life.

The argument given by some is that SOME innocent life is worth more than OTHER innocent life.

So...I'm asking, what is the difference between an innocent unborn child and an innocent man on death row that means his life is worth less?

ALL unborn children are innocent, not a one of them has done anything to warrant a death sentence. A person on death row has been found guilty and sentenced to death by a judge and jury and has gone through the years of appeals; how are we to know he/she is innocent? Those who oppose the death sentence believe that we as a society should not be risking the taking of an innocent person's life even with all the safeguards we have in place these days. But that person has had his/her day in court, whereas the unborn has not, and that's why the 2 situations are different IMHO. FWIW, I used to support the death penalty myself but no longer. I would however stipulate that any person found guilty of a crime worthy of a death sentence should be locked up for life with no eligibility for parole.

Does it matter if a person has had his day in court, but is innocent and being executed? The system is flawed, and it is KNOWN to be flawed - so knowing this, you still go on with it. You CHOOSE to execute someone who might be innocent because the system is flawed or corrupt so in the end there is no difference imo. It's still an innocent person dying with the awareness of knowing he is being killed for a crime he did not commit.

Totally agree with lock up for life.

To me the 2 cases are different because the innocent person on death row had his rights and executed them, whereas the unborn child has no rights at all.

I guess I don't see it that way...because...what's the use of "rights" when the system is corrupt? An innocent person still gets killed and if you are truly pro-life that should matter. It should matter a lot.

It does matter, which is why I do not support the DP any more. But we should do what we can to reduce the chances for injustice, which for abortion means no unborn life should be cut short other than the mother's own life being in peril. That's what rights are for, to preclude injustices in an imperfect world as much as possible. I would rather see the right to life for the unborn become the law AND the DP become unlawful right now. But I am not about to link the 2; if necessary I'll take the former now and the latter later.

 

[task0778]

"Pro Life" is best understood as Pro Birth. The Christian Fundamentalists want babies to be born and after that they have only unconcern for human rights and the wellbeing of the needy.

I do not share that opinion, but in any case the right to life prior to birth is a separate issue from human rights and well-being after birth. I don't know jack about Christian Fundamentalists, but any Christian organization that has no concern for the needy is not following the teachings of Christ and IMHO should not be considered as Christian, no matter what they call themselves.

 

[Eloy]

"Pro Life" is best understood as Pro Birth. The Christian Fundamentalists want babies to be born and after that they have only unconcern for human rights and the wellbeing of the needy.

I do not share that opinion, but in any case the right to life prior to birth is a separate issue from human rights and well-being after birth. I don't know jack about Christian Fundamentalists, but any Christian organization that has no concern for the needy is not following the teachings of Christ and IMHO should not be considered as Christian, no matter what they call themselves.

I think you live in the Bible Belt where Christian Fundamentalism is well established outside the Catholic Hispanic areas. Long ago I gave-up expecting even the language of tolerance, love, and support for minorities from conservative Protestants.

 

[Alena36]

being pro life you can also be against murdering innocent humans.. pro life perhaps should change their name if it is confusing people about this .. or I'll just put a disclaimer when I discuss - when I say I am pro life I mean I am against abortions

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

"Pro Life" is best understood as Pro Birth. The Christian Fundamentalists want babies to be born and after that they have only unconcern for human rights and the wellbeing of the needy.

I do not share that opinion, but in any case the right to life prior to birth is a separate issue from human rights and well-being after birth. I don't know jack about Christian Fundamentalists, but any Christian organization that has no concern for the needy is not following the teachings of Christ and IMHO should not be considered as Christian, no matter what they call themselves.

I think you live in the Bible Belt where Christian Fundamentalism is well established outside the Catholic Hispanic areas. Long ago I gave-up expecting even the language of tolerance, love, and support for minorities from conservative Protestants.

The topic of the thread is can you be pro-Life as in against abortion and also be pro-Death Penalty.

The topic of the thread has nothing to do with the Multiculturalism Tolerance or you're a Bigot Memo you're pushing:

"I gave-up expecting even the language of tolerance, love, and support for minorities"

 

[Eloy]

"Pro Life" is best understood as Pro Birth. The Christian Fundamentalists want babies to be born and after that they have only unconcern for human rights and the wellbeing of the needy.

I do not share that opinion, but in any case the right to life prior to birth is a separate issue from human rights and well-being after birth. I don't know jack about Christian Fundamentalists, but any Christian organization that has no concern for the needy is not following the teachings of Christ and IMHO should not be considered as Christian, no matter what they call themselves.

I think you live in the Bible Belt where Christian Fundamentalism is well established outside the Catholic Hispanic areas. Long ago I gave-up expecting even the language of tolerance, love, and support for minorities from conservative Protestants.

The topic of the thread is can you be pro-Life as in against abortion and also be pro-Death Penalty.

The topic of the thread has nothing to do with the Multiculturalism Tolerance or you're a Bigot Memo you're pushing:

"I gave-up expecting even the language of tolerance, love, and support for minorities"

The topic of the thread is how the term "Pro Life" might be confusing, for example, being Pro Birth and also Pro Death penalty.
I clarified the matter by pointing-out that Pro Birth people are usually concerned to stop women from getting an abortion and after the birth these fanatics are not heard of as they carry-on to harass other women and medical physicians.

 

[Chuz Life]

"Pro Life" is best understood as Pro Birth. The Christian Fundamentalists want babies to be born and after that they have only unconcern for human rights and the wellbeing of the needy.

I do not share that opinion, but in any case the right to life prior to birth is a separate issue from human rights and well-being after birth. I don't know jack about Christian Fundamentalists, but any Christian organization that has no concern for the needy is not following the teachings of Christ and IMHO should not be considered as Christian, no matter what they call themselves.

I think you live in the Bible Belt where Christian Fundamentalism is well established outside the Catholic Hispanic areas. Long ago I gave-up expecting even the language of tolerance, love, and support for minorities from conservative Protestants.

The topic of the thread is can you be pro-Life as in against abortion and also be pro-Death Penalty.

The topic of the thread has nothing to do with the Multiculturalism Tolerance or you're a Bigot Memo you're pushing:

"I gave-up expecting even the language of tolerance, love, and support for minorities"

The topic of the thread is how the term "Pro Life" might be confusing, for example, being Pro Birth and also Pro Death penalty.
I clarified the matter by pointing-out that Pro Birth people are usually concerned to stop women from getting an abortion and after the birth these fanatics are not heard of as they carry-on to harass other women and medical physicians.

All of that is a crock of shit of course.

Not to mention how pathetic it is to use the unfortunate conditions of one set of children to deny rights to others.... you are simply wrong. Because, we support all the same laws and protections for born children that we do those who you are now in denial of.

Your post tells me that you only see what you want to see. No matter though. We will keep pushing on despite you.

 

[keepitreal]

Is it pro-life or pro-some life?
Can you be pro-life if you oppose abortion and support the death penalty?
Can you be pro-life if you support the right to abortion and oppose the death penalty?

You can only be pro-life if you have a consistent ethic that respects the dignity of all life. But I'll narrow it down and say the dignity of all human life.

I admire this ethic. It's something to strive for. And it's something I admire the Catholic faith for.

The Church's Anti-Death Penalty Position

Each of us is called to respect the life and dignity of every human being. Even when people deny the dignity of others, we must still recognize that their dignity is a gift from God and is not something that is earned or lost through their behavior. Respect for life applies to all, even the perpetrators of terrible acts. Punishment should be consistent with the demands of justice and with respect for human life and dignity.
—USCCB, A Culture of Life and the Penalty of Death

In Catholic teaching the state has the recourse to impose the death penalty upon criminals convicted of heinous crimes if this ultimate sanction is the only available means to protect society from a grave threat to human life. However, this right should not be exercised when other ways are available to punish criminals and to protect society that are more respectful of human life.
—USCCB, A Culture of Life and the Penalty of Death

Is it pro-life or pro-some life?
Can you be pro-life if you oppose abortion and support the death penalty

Abortion is a choice to avoid consequences
The death penalty enforces consequences

An unborn baby wasn't irresponsible
but they pay with their life

A murderer pays with his life for taking a life

One life ends because of someone else's actions
another life is ended because of their actions

The catholic church chose to protect the church
instead of turning over pedophile priests to authorities
so, their stance on human life and dignity is comical

Furthermore, their position on capital punishment
is not even biblical... no surprise there

That sounds fine and dandy but the death penalty has killed innocent people. Oops. Collateral damage?

That sounds fine and dandy but the death penalty has killed innocent people. Oops. Collateral damage?

Since 1976, 1,453 prisoners have been executed

130 inmates found innocent and released from death row

Percentage of counties in the U.S. that has NOT executed
1 person in 45 years....85%

Number of executions in 2016...20

Estimated executed prisoners who were innocent, 150 something


Since Roe vs Wade, in 1973,
over 57 MILLION babies have been executed

Number of abortions in 2016...couldn't fucking tell ya
CDC statistics haven't been updated since 2013
But, it was well over 20

I'm sorry, what was that about collateral damage?

Death penalty statistics
DPI

Abortions since 1973

150ish innocent lives, over 57 million and counting

 

[Eloy]

"Pro Life" is best understood as Pro Birth. The Christian Fundamentalists want babies to be born and after that they have only unconcern for human rights and the wellbeing of the needy.

I do not share that opinion, but in any case the right to life prior to birth is a separate issue from human rights and well-being after birth. I don't know jack about Christian Fundamentalists, but any Christian organization that has no concern for the needy is not following the teachings of Christ and IMHO should not be considered as Christian, no matter what they call themselves.

I think you live in the Bible Belt where Christian Fundamentalism is well established outside the Catholic Hispanic areas. Long ago I gave-up expecting even the language of tolerance, love, and support for minorities from conservative Protestants.

The topic of the thread is can you be pro-Life as in against abortion and also be pro-Death Penalty.

The topic of the thread has nothing to do with the Multiculturalism Tolerance or you're a Bigot Memo you're pushing:

"I gave-up expecting even the language of tolerance, love, and support for minorities"

The topic of the thread is how the term "Pro Life" might be confusing, for example, being Pro Birth and also Pro Death penalty.
I clarified the matter by pointing-out that Pro Birth people are usually concerned to stop women from getting an abortion and after the birth these fanatics are not heard of as they carry-on to harass other women and medical physicians.

All of that is a crock of shit of course.

Not to mention how pathetic it is to use the unfortunate conditions of one set of children to deny rights to others.... you are simply wrong. Because, we support all the same laws and protections for born children that we do those who you are now in denial of.

Your post tells me that you only see what you want to see. No matter though. We will keep pushing on despite you.

I simply find it appalling that religious fanatics would force a child in the Bible Belt to continue with a pregnancy after being raped by her father. Such laws are primitive.