Where do you stand on State succession?

[Wry Catcher]

For most of my life, I could not have contemplated the idea that I would support such a thing. But the curve of the country towards socialism and away from liberty is so steep that I would now not only embrace the idea, but move to a State that secession. What say you?

Let's see. If 100% of the citizens who reside in Texas - for example - decided to leave the union, I'd support it with these provisions:

1. Every passport or form of identification provided by the United States held by every citizen of the Texas Republic be surrendered and held by the State Department, and every Texas citizen be denied entry into the United States for life;

2. All federal benefits due to every citizen of Texas be null and void. Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, VA Benefits, Railroad retirement, Federal government retirement, etc.; and all real property owned by any resident of Texas within the United States of America be taken and become the property of the United States or the State in which it is located.

 

[g5000]

Anyone who thinks it's a good idea for their state to secede from the union does not have a clue how many benefits each state receives from the federal government. There are a few pros to secession but the cons far outweigh them.

No state receives benefits that it doesn't also pay for.

They most certainly do receive more than they pay for. How do you think we got $17 trillion in debt?

This is now the cue for someone to post the obligatory link showing red states receive more federal funds than blue states...

 

[g5000]

For most of my life, I could not have contemplated the idea that I would support such a thing. But the curve of the country towards socialism and away from liberty is so steep that I would now not only embrace the idea, but move to a State that secession. What say you?

I say go right ahead. And good luck not being invaded by Mexico or China the following month.

 

[bripat9643]

Nothing in the Constitution says a state can't secede.

The whole point of the Constitution was to keep states from being able to leave the Confederation. The response to Shays' rebellion made it clear our Founders did not believe in secession.

Wrong. That wasn't the point. The issue in Shay's rebellion wasn't that they wanted to secede. The issue was that they refused to pay taxes.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

The whole point of the Constitution was to keep states from being able to leave the Confederation. The response to Shays' rebellion made it clear our Founders did not believe in secession.

“The indissoluble link of union between the people of the several states of this confederated nation is, after all, not in the right but in the heart. If the day should come (may Heaven avert it!) when the affections of the people of these States shall be alienated from each other; when the fraternal spirit shall give way to cold indifference, or collision of interests shall fester into hatred, the bands of political associations will not long hold together parties no longer attracted by the magnetism of conciliated interests or kindly sympathies; and far better will it be for the people of the disunited states to part in friendship from each other, than to be held together by constraint.” - John Quincy Adams

The 6th President of the United States was not a Founder. But he also said at the beginning of that speech, "The right of a state to secede from the Union, is equally disowned by the principles of the Declaration of Independence." And in the part you quoted he is plainly saying states do not have the right to secede, but may choose to do so anyway if they cannot reconcile themselves with the rest of the country.

“The future inhabitants of the Atlantic & Mississippi States will be our sons. We leave them in distinct but bordering establishments. We think we see their happiness in their union, & we wish it. Events may prove it otherwise; and if they see their interest in separation, why should we take side with our Atlantic rather than our Mississippi descendants? It is the elder and the younger son differing. God bless them both, & keep them in union, if it be for their good, but separate them, if it be better.” - Thomas Jefferson

Jefferson was speaking about the acquisition of the Lousiana Purchase and how the existing Atlantic states wanted the new lands to be separate so as not to undermine their electoral powers.

So they don't have the right, but may as well go ahead and do it anyway? A strange position to take. Regardless, neither Jefferson nor Adams had any problem with secession. Furthermore, none of the founders had an issue with secession when it brought them power, when they seceded from the British empire, but some, like Hamilton and Washington, did have an issue when it meant taking power away from them. So it's not like the any of the founders really had any consistent position on the issue regardless.

 

[kaz]

Texas's economy would collapse. The aerospace and defense industry accounts for billions of the Texas economy.

Actually, there is no reason that a State or States that secede would not continue to trade and even have companies that span the new countries any more than American companies now are international.

Over time, those States would do far better than the NY/California socialist United States of America that remained. You'd be dependent on us.

Those companies would flock out of the state that left. They know where their bread is buttered.

Right, because companies have no interest in being in a capitalist State when they could stay with your socialist one. Socialism is where American businesses "bread is buttered."

What's even funner than the crap you people say is that you actually believe it, don't you? In reality, companies that span seceding States and non-seceding States would stay in both, but they would move their headquarters and as much of their operations out of your workers paradise that they can.

 

[bripat9643]

For most of my life, I could not have contemplated the idea that I would support such a thing. But the curve of the country towards socialism and away from liberty is so steep that I would now not only embrace the idea, but move to a State that secession. What say you?

Let's see. If 100% of the citizens who reside in Texas - for example - decided to leave the union, I'd support it with these provisions:

1. Every passport or form of identification provided by the United States held by every citizen of the Texas Republic be surrendered and held by the State Department, and every Texas citizen be denied entry into the United States for life;

2. All federal benefits due to every citizen of Texas be null and void. Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, VA Benefits, Railroad retirement, Federal government retirement, etc.; and all real property owned by any resident of Texas within the United States of America be taken and become the property of the United States or the State in which they are located.

No one gives a fuck what idiocies you would support.

 

[bripat9643]

The issue has long been decided.

A few wack far right wing nut reactionaries and the dipsy anarchists can moan and groan all they want.

It makes not a whit's difference.

It's only "decided" until we decide otherwise.

We the People decided a long, long time ago. I will send you a copy of the msg.

Actually, no we didn't. Even if we did, as I already said, we can decide otherwise tomorrow.

 

[kaz]

For most of my life, I could not have contemplated the idea that I would support such a thing. But the curve of the country towards socialism and away from liberty is so steep that I would now not only embrace the idea, but move to a State that secession. What say you?

I say go right ahead. And good luck not being invaded by Mexico or China the following month.

You mean like Mexico and China have invaded Canada? Are you familiar with Norad? We would not put up a wall and refuse to deal with you. We would trade with you, have a strong defense pact. We would just stop letting you destroy our economy, flood us with illegal aliens and redistribute all the wealth you can get your socialist hands on.

 

[g5000]

Nothing in the Constitution says a state can't secede.

The whole point of the Constitution was to keep states from being able to leave the Confederation. The response to Shays' rebellion made it clear our Founders did not believe in secession.

Wrong. That wasn't the point. The issue in Shay's rebellion wasn't that they wanted to secede. The issue was that they refused to pay taxes.

The issue was the federal government found itself woefully prepared to handle a...

...wait for it...

...rebellion.


This led directly to an awakening of a need for a stronger central government, and had an influence on the need for a Constitution to replace the Articles of Confederation in order to prevent a fracturing of the country into smaller pieces.

 

[kaz]

For most of my life, I could not have contemplated the idea that I would support such a thing. But the curve of the country towards socialism and away from liberty is so steep that I would now not only embrace the idea, but move to a State that secession. What say you?

Let's see. If 100% of the citizens who reside in Texas - for example - decided to leave the union, I'd support it with these provisions:

1. Every passport or form of identification provided by the United States held by every citizen of the Texas Republic be surrendered and held by the State Department, and every Texas citizen be denied entry into the United States for life;

2. All federal benefits due to every citizen of Texas be null and void. Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, VA Benefits, Railroad retirement, Federal government retirement, etc.; and all real property owned by any resident of Texas within the United States of America be taken and become the property of the United States or the State in which it is located.

You not only don't let people leave, but if they are sick of your ass, you want to try to destroy them on their way out? You must be a delightful person just to know.

 

[g5000]

For most of my life, I could not have contemplated the idea that I would support such a thing. But the curve of the country towards socialism and away from liberty is so steep that I would now not only embrace the idea, but move to a State that secession. What say you?

I say go right ahead. And good luck not being invaded by Mexico or China the following month.

You mean like Mexico and China have invaded Canada? Are you familiar with Norad?

I am very familiar with NORAD. Which is why I know it is NORAD and not Norad.

It is also why I know it is a federal site, not a state site. So good luck with that.

We would not put up a wall and refuse to deal with you. We would trade with you, have a strong defense pact.

Oh, so you would want the US to pay for your defense like we pay for Japan's and paid for Germany's and the rest of Europe's?

LEECH!


You really can't let go of the federal tit, can you. You want your cake and to eat it, too.

 

[kaz]

Anyone who thinks it's a good idea for their state to secede from the union does not have a clue how many benefits each state receives from the federal government. There are a few pros to secession but the cons far outweigh them.

No state receives benefits that it doesn't also pay for.

What do you want to bet that if States were leaving the Union, the Leftists who remain would suddenly grasp that there is no Social Security trust fund?

 

[Yurt]

why would any state want to secede?

 

[kaz]

I say go right ahead. And good luck not being invaded by Mexico or China the following month.

You mean like Mexico and China have invaded Canada? Are you familiar with Norad?

I am very familiar with NORAD. Which is why I know it is NORAD and not Norad.

It is also why I know it is a federal site, not a state site. So good luck with that.

What a mental titan you are. Thanks for the capitalization tips, troll.

We would not put up a wall and refuse to deal with you. We would trade with you, have a strong defense pact.

Oh, so you would want the US to pay for your defense like we pay for Japan's and paid for Germany's and the rest of Europe's?

LEECH!


You really can't let go of the federal tit, can you. You want your cake and to eat it, too.

Strawman, and a stupid one. We would both pay. And I never said otherwise. All you leftists are doing is saying that if we were able to get out of your clutches than you would be a bunch of angry, spiteful revenge consumed bitches about it not only to our detriment but to your own. Once you got over your PMS, I think you'd realize it is worth working together. Especially since it would take us not much time at all to be far richer than you are.

 

[Dutch]

Actually, there is no reason that a State or States that secede would not continue to trade and even have companies that span the new countries any more than American companies now are international.

Over time, those States would do far better than the NY/California socialist United States of America that remained. You'd be dependent on us.

Those companies would flock out of the state that left. They know where their bread is buttered.

Right, because companies have no interest in being in a capitalist State when they could stay with your socialist one. Socialism is where American businesses "bread is buttered."

What's even funner than the crap you people say is that you actually believe it, don't you? In reality, companies that span seceding States and non-seceding States would stay in both, but they would move their headquarters and as much of their operations out of your workers paradise that they can.

And what funding or contracts would these defense and aerospace companies rely on for their proffits? The US government spends more on defense than all other countries combined. Do you actually think they would deal with you idiots that left? I would think they would also nudge our alloes not to deal with you either.

 

[Wry Catcher]

For most of my life, I could not have contemplated the idea that I would support such a thing. But the curve of the country towards socialism and away from liberty is so steep that I would now not only embrace the idea, but move to a State that secession. What say you?

Let's see. If 100% of the citizens who reside in Texas - for example - decided to leave the union, I'd support it with these provisions:

1. Every passport or form of identification provided by the United States held by every citizen of the Texas Republic be surrendered and held by the State Department, and every Texas citizen be denied entry into the United States for life;

2. All federal benefits due to every citizen of Texas be null and void. Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, VA Benefits, Railroad retirement, Federal government retirement, etc.; and all real property owned by any resident of Texas within the United States of America be taken and become the property of the United States or the State in which they are located.

No one gives a fuck what idiocies you would support.

My points were not "idiocies", they are opinions. An idiotic remark as well as an ignorant one is thus:

"No state receives benefits that it doesn't also pay for" That too may be an opinion, but one not based on reality.

 

[JakeStarkey]

It's only "decided" until we decide otherwise.

We the People decided a long, long time ago. I will send you a copy of the msg.

Actually, no we didn't. Even if we did, as I already said, we can decide otherwise tomorrow.

That is not what you said, but, yes, We the People (of which and to which you are bound) could change tomorrow.

But . . . probably will not happen.

 

[kaz]

why would any state want to secede?

Because in our socialist workers paradise that the left is building here, you have to secede to succeed!

 

[kaz]

Those companies would flock out of the state that left. They know where their bread is buttered.

Right, because companies have no interest in being in a capitalist State when they could stay with your socialist one. Socialism is where American businesses "bread is buttered."

What's even funner than the crap you people say is that you actually believe it, don't you? In reality, companies that span seceding States and non-seceding States would stay in both, but they would move their headquarters and as much of their operations out of your workers paradise that they can.

And what funding or contracts would these defense and aerospace companies rely on for their proffits? The US government spends more on defense than all other countries combined. Do you actually think they would deal with you idiots that left? I would think they would also nudge our alloes not to deal with you either.

No, of course not. No company wants to make money by selling things, they would of course share your bitterness and refuse to deal with us and pass on the business because of resentment. Obviously no country the size of Texas, much of the south as well as possibly Arizona, Oklahoma in the world can afford a military.

You sir, are a tool