Where Is The “Climate Emergency”?

[westwall]

It's like they are completely ignorant of the fact that the geologic record is littered with examples of warming and cooling trends that are totally unrelated to CO2 or orbital forcing. Which is why they will act all surprised when the planet experiences a cooling trend that completely disproves their beliefs. Of course given the fact that the planet experiences more frequent and more severe climate fluctuations because of the planet's land mass configuration and proximity to thresholds to extensive continental glaciation, they really shouldn't be surprised at all.

They ignore those facts because they prove beyond doubt that their claims are fraudulent.

 

[westwall]

No, BUT THE ONLY REASON YOU KNOW it was an inland sea is due to geologic analysis. That same analysis is integrated into PALEOCLIMATOLOGY which is the study of ancient climates and ancient climate change. That's how we know how the NATURAL forcings work. And it is largely how we know that the CURRENT warming we see cannot be explained solely by natural forcings.

(Now, in reality, since I don't know where you live I'm going to take a guess and say that the reason you are no longer an inland sea, or what is often called an epieric sea is probably more related to plate tectonics and/or subsidence, or in the case of where I'm from (the midwest) filling in by erosion of the Appalachian Mountains. So it may have had exactly zero to do with climate change in the past.)

Take forcings out of your lexicon. There is no support for them.

They are unmeasurable, thus they do not exist.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

What caused the slope of the cooling trend to drastically change ~5 million years ago?

Look, I get that you love that curve. Fine. Literally NO ONE IS ARGUING AGAINST ANY OF IT.

What you seem to take no little joy in is randomly finding climate change in the earth's history and then demanding someone tell you exactly WHY THAT TEMPERATURE CHANGED RIGHT THEN AND THERE! And if they fail to know THAT EXACT POINT you decree that they can't possibly know geology.

That's absurd!

Let's say you are a lawyer, for instance. If I ask you about some obscure random court case somewhere at some point in the distant past and you simply don't have it on the tip of your tongue, does that mean you aren't a real lawyer?

I honestly don't understand your reasoning.

And let's also be fair: my area was organic geochemistry. I studied coal and kerogen and petroleum CHEMISTRY. I wasn't a paleoclimatologist.

I spent my days running FTIR's on stuff pulled out shale. Or I spent my time measuring the reflectance of polished chunks of coal (vitrinite reflectance is a means of assessing thermal history of coal). Or I spent my time running NMR's on coal that had been chemically treated.

So just because I can't answer EVERY SINGLE RANDOM QUESTION YOU VOMIT UP about a specific localized event somewhere on the entire earth at some point in time over the last 4,500,000,000 years doesn't mean anything.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

This is what I see every day in my city.

View attachment 632034

Shudder. Too flippin' close to Hanford for my tastes.

 

[ReinyDays]

Where’s the emergency?

Don't worry. It won't hit you for a while. Enjoy your privilege.

What do you mean by "it"? ... how long is "a while"? ...

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

What do you mean by "it"? ... how long is "a while"? ...

Guessing we'll find out.

Why do you expect that there are psychics who can tell you EXACTLY what will happen? What we DO know is things will change. And rapidly compared to human history.

Imagine, on a global scale, suffering what the Maya did? Their climate (locally) changed and became drier. It collapsed their society and arguably their society was one of the largest and most powerful in mesoAmerica. Then suddenly they are gone.

That was a local climate change.

Now imagine a bunch of local climate changes happening simultaneously across the developed world. And happening rather quickly.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Chicago was not at the Arctic circle. The ice there was due to continental ice sheets (specifically the Laurentide Ice Sheet which originated in Canda).

But millions of years prior to that Chicago was in an ocean.

Back in undergrad (in downstate Illinois) I was taking a paleontology class and part of our assignments included going to the local quarry and finding fossils which we would then identify. These were PENNSYLVANIAN in age (~300million years old). I found a small SHARKSTOOTH in the quarry for my study. It was a cladodont level shark (small guy) that lived in oceans about 300 million years ago. A shark, in downstate Illinois).

If you went to college on downstate Illinois, you probably have the equivalent of a GED. No wonder your information and thought processes are usually wrong.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

If you went to college on downstate Illinois, you probably have the equivalent of a GED.

Hey, thanks! I appreciate it.

No wonder your information and thought processes are usually wrong.

Can you point out the errors in this post of mine?

 

[ding]

But again, you are dealing with ONE EVENT in Earth's history. No one is debating that changes in ocean currents can and DO cause changes in climate. But it means literally nothing beyond just being another climate driver.

Actually I explained today's climate to you. That you believe it means literally nothing just goes to show how little you understand earth's climate. You should be ashamed of your ignorance instead of celebrating it.

 

[ding]

But again, you are dealing with ONE EVENT in Earth's history. No one is debating that changes in ocean currents can and DO cause changes in climate. But it means literally nothing beyond just being another climate driver.

Your ignorance of earth's climate is truly amazing. Before you discuss earth's climate you should learn something about earth's climate.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Actually I explained today's climate to you. That you believe it means literally nothing just goes to show how little you understand earth's climate. You should be ashamed of your ignorance instead of celebrating it.

Can you not understand even a tiny portion of what I posted? Your focus on the poles is NOT the only climate driver that has occurred to change the earth's climate over its history.

It is ONE WAY of changing the climate. In fact the earth's continental land masses have been all over the globe (well before the stuff you are talking about) and indeed it DID have an impact on the climate. In many ways as a function of changing the earth's ocean circulation patterns and redistribution of heat.

But OTHER THINGS also cause climate change. CO2 for instance. It can raise temperatures. Sulfate aerosols can lower temperatures. Milankovich Cycles can induce continental glaciation and "ice ages".

So just focusing on one event in the earth's VERY LONG and VERY COMPLEX history is fine, but it isn't the ONLY information worth knowing.

I'm honestly not sure why this is so difficult to understand.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Your ignorance of earth's climate is truly amazing. Before you discuss earth's climate you should learn something about earth's climate.

I must try harder to figure out a way to explain this. Bear with me for a moment: what general field are you involved in for your career? (Nothing detailed, just the general field. Are you technical? Are you business? Are you service sector? IT? Just generally what is your field? I might be able to explain my point in that frame.)

Thanks.

 

[ding]

Dude, Chicago was under deep ice and isn’t today. Well not deep ice, but still the Arctic.

1000 feet of ice would be considered deep, dummy. The overwhelming majority of the past half million years the planet has been at or near glacial temperatures.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

1000 feet of ice would be considered deep, dummy.

That was a typo, I meant "not deeply in the Arctic".

Yeah, it was definitely DEEP ice. Sorry 'bout that.

 

[ding]

Can you not understand even a tiny portion of what I posted? Your focus on the poles is NOT the only climate driver that has occurred to change the earth's climate over its history.

It is ONE WAY of changing the climate. In fact the earth's continental land masses have been all over the globe (well before the stuff you are talking about) and indeed it DID have an impact on the climate. In many ways as a function of changing the earth's ocean circulation patterns and redistribution of heat.

But OTHER THINGS also cause climate change. CO2 for instance. It can raise temperatures. Sulfate aerosols can lower temperatures. Milankovich Cycles can induce continental glaciation and "ice ages".

So just focusing on one event in the earth's VERY LONG and VERY COMPLEX history is fine, but it isn't the ONLY information worth knowing.

I'm honestly not sure why this is so difficult to understand.

I have already proven that you don't understand earth's climate. You couldn't answer one question I asked.

Let me know when you have answered these questions because until you do, you won't understand the relevance to today's climate and climate discussion.

Where Is The “Climate Emergency”?

So, you dodge the question yet again. No. I didn't. You keep whining about sea level rise, yet the Maldives has spent over a billion dollars to build new airports. Sea level rise is quite real, regardless of what the Maldives are doing. If they were going under water no one in their...

www.usmessageboard.com

Where Is The “Climate Emergency”?

So, you dodge the question yet again. No. I didn't. You keep whining about sea level rise, yet the Maldives has spent over a billion dollars to build new airports. Sea level rise is quite real, regardless of what the Maldives are doing. If they were going under water no one in their...

www.usmessageboard.com

https://www.usmessageboard.com/threads/where-is-the-climate-emergency.902105/post-29357583\

Where Is The “Climate Emergency”?

So, you dodge the question yet again. No. I didn't. You keep whining about sea level rise, yet the Maldives has spent over a billion dollars to build new airports. Sea level rise is quite real, regardless of what the Maldives are doing. If they were going under water no one in their...

www.usmessageboard.com

 

[westwall]

Guessing we'll find out.

Why do you expect that there are psychics who can tell you EXACTLY what will happen? What we DO know is things will change. And rapidly compared to human history.

Imagine, on a global scale, suffering what the Maya did? Their climate (locally) changed and became drier. It collapsed their society and arguably their society was one of the largest and most powerful in mesoAmerica. Then suddenly they are gone.

That was a local climate change.

Now imagine a bunch of local climate changes happening simultaneously across the developed world. And happening rather quickly.
[/Qvacation!


Interesting that you mention psychics. Sylvia Browne, the world renowned psychic (and charlatan) has a better prediction rate, by far, than the climate alarmists.

What does that tell you......

 

[ding]

In ten years this debate will be over when rate of sea level rise hasn't tripled from the rate of the past 6,000 years.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

I have already proven that you don't understand earth's climate. You couldn't answer one question I asked.

Why do you assume that my lack of knoweldge of ONE TINY PORTION of the earth's climatic history would indicate that have a profound lack of knowledge of the topic? Much less how do you thus "prove" it?

You DO know what "prove" means, correct?

In the real sciences we seldom deal in "proofs" (that's mathematics). We always couch our findings in language such as "the most likely correct hypothesis". There is always information that we don't have, errors in the measurements, etc. So the best you can do is to come asymptotically close to "proof" while never really getting there.

There's a reason that p-values are never perfectly zero.

 

[westwall]

In ten years this debate will be over when rate of sea level rise hasn't tripled from the rate of the past 6,000 years.

It's already over. The only people pushing this are those who stand to profit from it.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I must try harder to figure out a way to explain this. Bear with me for a moment: what general field are you involved in for your career? (Nothing detailed, just the general field. Are you technical? Are you business? Are you service sector? IT? Just generally what is your field? I might be able to explain my point in that frame.)

Thanks.

What difference does it make? I was a naval officer, math and social studies teacher, and Army recruiter in my employment. I also worked for a major insurance company and employee benefits for AT&T, yet I consider myself a tornado expert because of self-study and personal experience with those storms. That had nothing to do with my vocation.