Where Is The “Climate Emergency”?

[ding]

Everything you support brings the earth closer the an 8C decrease.

What exactly do I support that brings the earth closer the an 8C decrease?

Reducing atmospheric CO2.

I'm not a climatologist but I'm also not advocating an 8C decrease. Is that reducing from where the CO2 levels are today or halting or reducing their increase from where they are today?

Given that the conditions that exist today are the same conditions that existed when we transitioned from a greenhouse planet to an icehouse planet anything at or below our present conditions puts us at risk of an 8C decrease.

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Pretty pictures but climate/environment has certainly changed dramatically in some areas. The Sahara used to be more verdant. The Cedars of Lebanon used to be common. The isles of Greece used to be forested. Things changed whatever the reason.

What is it that you think those "pretty pictures" are telling you about the earth's climate?

 

[ding]

I have grandchildren that will likely be alive 100 years from now

What climate change have you yourself witnessed?

name one prediction that came true?

I have been to Iceland and stood on a glacier that, 50 years before, was over a kilometer longer.

And you were expecting it have grown or stayed the same during an interglacial cycle?

 

[jc456]

I have grandchildren that will likely be alive 100 years from now

What climate change have you yourself witnessed?

name one prediction that came true?

I have been to Iceland and stood on a glacier that, 50 years before, was over a kilometer longer.

you measured it? I'm impressed.

 

[ReinyDays]

The climate is natural too. Mankind hasn't got the power to increase the temperature of the globe.

We just don't.

What is that based on? We influence many natural things.

But you don't specify what they are and YOU keep ignoring Post one, could it be because you have no answer to the Question.....

Where Is The “Climate Emergency”?​

SATELLITE IMAGES REVEAL ICE SHELF PROTECTING ANTARCTIC GLACIER IS ON THE VERGE OF COLLAPSE​

A critical Antarctic glacier is looking more vulnerable as satellite images show the ice shelf that blocks it from collapsing into the sea is breaking up much faster than before and spawning huge icebergs, a new study says. The Pine Island Glacier’s ice shelf loss accelerated in 2017, causing scientists to worry that with climate change the glacier’s collapse could happen quicker than the many centuries predicted. The floating ice shelf acts like a cork in a bottle for the fast-melting glacier and prevents its much larger ice mass from flowing into the ocean.

It is pathetic when your source ignores the active VOLCANO that is under part of the Pine Island glacier, similar with Thwaties glacier.

The ignorance and your shallow link is scary to behold since this was news a few years ago.....

Meanwhile still no climate emergency to show........

Why does the cause matter? If the ice sheet collapses it is a “Climate Emergency” in my book.

Because leftists are using the fraud of climate change to implement draconian wealth stealing laws to enrich the wealthy, and impoverish the middle class

Look up what it meant to be a serf in the middle ages, and then compare that to what it would be like to live under the green new deal.

But what if it is NOT a fraud and climate change turns out to be real? I see the options as:

1. Climate change is real and we do nothing: suffering and disaster on a global scale, including our heirs
2. Climate change is real and we do everything reasonable to combat/mitigate it: suffering and disaster on a local scale (developed countries would be spared the worst of it)
3. Climate change is fake or exaggerated and we do nothing: we played Russian Roulette with our children and won
4. Climate change is fake or exaggerated and we do everything reasonable to combat/mitigate it: costly but insurance always is.

Personally, I'm good with either 2 or 4, the lives of my children and grandchildren are worth a lot to me.

• Climate change is real and we do nothing: suffering and disaster on a global scale, including our heirs

This would require a breakdown of the Laws of Thermodynamics ... in which case, perpetual motion becomes a reality and our energy worries are over ... unlimited free energy for everybody on the planet is of greater benefit than the additional losses of 100-year weather events happening every 95 years ...

And check your math ... I come up with "great-great-grabdchildren" in 100 years ... the child born today has slim chance to be alive that far into the future ...

There's physics involved in all this ... and you're not allowed to break the Laws of Physics ... ever ...

I don't get the breakdown of the Laws of Thermodynamics, can you explain?

I don't get the breakdown of the Laws of Thermodynamics, can you explain?

I noticed ...

Either the disaster scenario requires energy be created where there was none before, thus violating the 1st Law ... or the scenario requires energy move from where it is lacking to where it is abundant, violating the 2nd Law ...

A single quantum of energy can either melt ice or raise temperatures ... never both ... you need to choose between global warming or collapsing ice sheets ... both can't occur with only 2 W/m^2 climate forcing ... it might surprise you but the number of seconds in a century is trivial compared to the number of grams in the climate system ...

I have no idea what axle you are wrapped around but I don't think you see the problem. If the ice on Antarctica melts it will raise sea levels. We have built our country based on the existing sea level. If it changes dramatically our coastal cities will flood, low-lying land, like Florida and the Gulf Coast, will be eroded. The cost of adapting to the change will be immense and we are a rich country. Bangladesh won't stand a chance.

I have no idea what axle you are wrapped around but I don't think you see the problem. If the ice on Antarctica melts it will raise sea levels. We have built our country based on the existing sea level. If it changes dramatically our coastal cities will flood, low-lying land, like Florida and the Gulf Coast, will be eroded. The cost of adapting to the change will be immense and we are a rich country. Bangladesh won't stand a chance.

Nonsense ... Antarctica ice is increasing in volume and has been since accurate satellite measurements have been being made {Cite} ... sea level rise is caused by thermal expansion for the most part, very little is contributed by the Greenland ice sheet, and mountain glaciers contribute even less ... Antarctica is collecting ice and mitigating this sea level rise ...

We're only talking about a 22 inch rise by year 2100 {Cite} ... coastal cities should already have 10 foot sea walls to protect against Cat 2 hurricanes ... adding a lousy two feet to our existing sea walls is cheap, easy and can be done in a month ... and we have 80 years to do this ... like I've said; one man, one shovel, twenty years and the entire City of Houston is protected ...

If 3 mm/yr sea level rise is "dramatic" ... then the typical 30 mm/yr continental drift would be near instantaneous ... Seattle crashing into Tokyo would be the bigger threat ... just how frighten are you? ...

Why would Missouri's climate ruin Iowa? ...

ETA: Thank you for not violating any of the Laws of Thermodynamics with your above quote ... I admit you're pretty good about that usually just you still need to keep a sharp eye, break the law once and you're a felon forever ...

 

[jc456]

Antarctica ice is increasing in volume and has been since accurate satellite measurements have been being made {[https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddar...-antarctic-ice-sheet-greater-than-losses]Cite[/url]} ... sea level rise is caused by thermal expansion for the most part, very little is contributed by the Greenland ice sheet, and mountain glaciers contribute even less ... Antarctica is collecting ice and mitigating this sea level rise ...

As long as Antarctica doesn't move, it will never lose its ice. NEVER where it is at today.

I repeat, if Antarctica doesn't move. Meaning, where the continent is at will experience the same lack of exposure it always has had, ice would never melt there. NEVER.

 

[ding]

Antarctica ice is increasing in volume and has been since accurate satellite measurements have been being made {[https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddar...-antarctic-ice-sheet-greater-than-losses]Cite[/url]} ... sea level rise is caused by thermal expansion for the most part, very little is contributed by the Greenland ice sheet, and mountain glaciers contribute even less ... Antarctica is collecting ice and mitigating this sea level rise ...

As long as Antarctica doesn't move, it will never lose its ice. NEVER where it is at today.

I repeat, if Antarctica doesn't move. Meaning, where the continent is at will experience the same lack of exposure it always has had, ice would never melt there. NEVER.

Damn... I don't want to open this up but I'm not sure that's true for all conditions. Yes, having a continent parked over a pole lowers the threshold for glaciation to occur because it isolates an important region from the warmer marine currents. The northern pole is semi isolated by surrounding land masses and it's threshold for glaciation is considerably higher than the southern hemisphere which has a continent parked over it. Having nothing but open waters would result in the highest threshold for glaciation to occur at a pole.

So for today's conditions - and probably a considerably long time - that's a true statement but modeling, the paleo-climate record and the oxygen isotope curve suggest that extensive continental glaciation occurs at 600 ppm.

 

[jc456]

Antarctica ice is increasing in volume and has been since accurate satellite measurements have been being made {[https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddar...-antarctic-ice-sheet-greater-than-losses]Cite[/url]} ... sea level rise is caused by thermal expansion for the most part, very little is contributed by the Greenland ice sheet, and mountain glaciers contribute even less ... Antarctica is collecting ice and mitigating this sea level rise ...

As long as Antarctica doesn't move, it will never lose its ice. NEVER where it is at today.

I repeat, if Antarctica doesn't move. Meaning, where the continent is at will experience the same lack of exposure it always has had, ice would never melt there. NEVER.

Damn... I don't want to open this up but I'm not sure that's true for all conditions. Yes, having a continent parked over a pole lowers the threshold for glaciation to occur because it isolates an important region from the warmer marine currents. The northern pole is semi isolated by surrounding land masses and it's threshold for glaciation is considerably higher than the southern hemisphere which has a continent parked over it. Having nothing but open waters would result in the highest threshold for glaciation to occur at a pole.
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So for today's conditions - and probably a considerably long time - that's a true statement but modeling, the paleo-climate record and the oxygen isotope curve suggest that extensive continental glaciation occurs at 600 ppm.

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well, I would expect if that were the case, that some scientist could tell us how hot 120PPM of C02 is.

 

[alang1216]

I have grandchildren that will likely be alive 100 years from now

What climate change have you yourself witnessed?

name one prediction that came true?

I have been to Iceland and stood on a glacier that, 50 years before, was over a kilometer longer.

And 100 years ago it was 20 kilometers longer. The vast majority of glacial retreat happened over 100 years ago.

Once again, you parrot factoids that are meaningless. They ignore the historical record for a reason. To frighten the ignorant, and line their pockets with YOUR money.

Don't let them steal your money.

Maybe, I don't know. What I do know is that it is still happening.

 

[alang1216]

Everything you support brings the earth closer the an 8C decrease.

What exactly do I support that brings the earth closer the an 8C decrease?

Reducing atmospheric CO2.

I'm not a climatologist but I'm also not advocating an 8C decrease. Is that reducing from where the CO2 levels are today or halting or reducing their increase from where they are today?

Given that the conditions that exist today are the same conditions that existed when we transitioned from a greenhouse planet to an icehouse planet anything at or below our present conditions puts us at risk of an 8C decrease.

View attachment 501739
View attachment 501740
View attachment 501741

Pretty pictures but climate/environment has certainly changed dramatically in some areas. The Sahara used to be more verdant. The Cedars of Lebanon used to be common. The isles of Greece used to be forested. Things changed whatever the reason.

What is it that you think those "pretty pictures" are telling you about the earth's climate?

That it is complex and that it is easy to make pictures that support your point of view?

 

[ding]

Everything you support brings the earth closer the an 8C decrease.

What exactly do I support that brings the earth closer the an 8C decrease?

Reducing atmospheric CO2.

I'm not a climatologist but I'm also not advocating an 8C decrease. Is that reducing from where the CO2 levels are today or halting or reducing their increase from where they are today?

Given that the conditions that exist today are the same conditions that existed when we transitioned from a greenhouse planet to an icehouse planet anything at or below our present conditions puts us at risk of an 8C decrease.

View attachment 501739
View attachment 501740
View attachment 501741

Pretty pictures but climate/environment has certainly changed dramatically in some areas. The Sahara used to be more verdant. The Cedars of Lebanon used to be common. The isles of Greece used to be forested. Things changed whatever the reason.

What is it that you think those "pretty pictures" are telling you about the earth's climate?

That it is complex and that it is easy to make pictures that support your point of view?

How about there was a slope change in the temperature of the planet? Can you see that?

That it markedly got colder? Can you see that?

How about there was more erratic or frequent temperature swings? Can you see that?

How about the temperature swings were more severe? Can you see that?

 

[alang1216]

How about there was a slope change in the temperature of the planet? Can you see that?

That it markedly got colder? Can you see that?

How about there was more erratic or frequent temperature swings? Can you see that?

How about the temperature swings were more severe? Can you see that?

So our climate is constantly changing. Agreed. Much of the change is natural. Agreed. My point is that ANY change will bring suffering.

 

[westwall]

I have grandchildren that will likely be alive 100 years from now

What climate change have you yourself witnessed?

name one prediction that came true?

I have been to Iceland and stood on a glacier that, 50 years before, was over a kilometer longer.

And 100 years ago it was 20 kilometers longer. The vast majority of glacial retreat happened over 100 years ago.

Once again, you parrot factoids that are meaningless. They ignore the historical record for a reason. To frighten the ignorant, and line their pockets with YOUR money.

Don't let them steal your money.

Maybe, I don't know. What I do know is that it is still happening.

At a significantly lower rate than in the past. Hmmm, either the glaciers are running out of ice, or maybe....just maybe, the planet is starting to cool again. Hmm. There is actual real evidence to support that. Not computer derived fiction, but REAL evidence of cooling.

 

[westwall]

How about there was a slope change in the temperature of the planet? Can you see that?

That it markedly got colder? Can you see that?

How about there was more erratic or frequent temperature swings? Can you see that?

How about the temperature swings were more severe? Can you see that?

So our climate is constantly changing. Agreed. Much of the change is natural. Agreed. My point is that ANY change will bring suffering.

Of course it will. That is called nature. Adapt or die. I believe it is called "natural selection"

Or do you not believe in evolution?

 

[alang1216]

I have grandchildren that will likely be alive 100 years from now

What climate change have you yourself witnessed?

name one prediction that came true?

I have been to Iceland and stood on a glacier that, 50 years before, was over a kilometer longer.

And 100 years ago it was 20 kilometers longer. The vast majority of glacial retreat happened over 100 years ago.

Once again, you parrot factoids that are meaningless. They ignore the historical record for a reason. To frighten the ignorant, and line their pockets with YOUR money.

Don't let them steal your money.

Maybe, I don't know. What I do know is that it is still happening.

At a significantly lower rate than in the past. Hmmm, either the glaciers are running out of ice, or maybe....just maybe, the planet is starting to cool again. Hmm. There is actual real evidence to support that. Not computer derived fiction, but REAL evidence of cooling.

Maybe, I don't know, but most climatologists would disagree with you.

 

[alang1216]

Of course it will. That is called nature. Adapt or die. I believe it is called "natural selection"

Or do you not believe in evolution?

I believe in extinction and I wouldn't wish that on my genes.

 

[westwall]

I have grandchildren that will likely be alive 100 years from now

What climate change have you yourself witnessed?

name one prediction that came true?

I have been to Iceland and stood on a glacier that, 50 years before, was over a kilometer longer.

And 100 years ago it was 20 kilometers longer. The vast majority of glacial retreat happened over 100 years ago.

Once again, you parrot factoids that are meaningless. They ignore the historical record for a reason. To frighten the ignorant, and line their pockets with YOUR money.

Don't let them steal your money.

Maybe, I don't know. What I do know is that it is still happening.

At a significantly lower rate than in the past. Hmmm, either the glaciers are running out of ice, or maybe....just maybe, the planet is starting to cool again. Hmm. There is actual real evidence to support that. Not computer derived fiction, but REAL evidence of cooling.

Maybe, I don't know, but most climatologists would disagree with you.

Who cares. They are nothing more than pseudo scientists at this point. They rely on computer derived fiction to support their positions. They rely on falsified data to support their positions, which supports their "sustainable" companies that they all own, and who's government funding they rely on to keep themselves living high on the hog.

Appeals to authority are logic fails.

They are logic fails for a reason.

 

[westwall]

Of course it will. That is called nature. Adapt or die. I believe it is called "natural selection"

Or do you not believe in evolution?

I believe in extinction and I wouldn't wish that on my genes.

Critters go extinct all of the time. Adapt or die. You aren't trying to adapt at all. You are trying to stab a cloud.

Pretty hard to do. And in the end, what have you accomplished. Nothing. Nothing at all.

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

I would bet these same climate alarmist believers could be made to believe a flu is a full blown pandemic and then they would be happy to wear masks for a year, and shut down their lives and the economy...... to prevent a fake "pandemic"

Some people. <facepalm>

 

[alang1216]

I have grandchildren that will likely be alive 100 years from now

What climate change have you yourself witnessed?

name one prediction that came true?

I have been to Iceland and stood on a glacier that, 50 years before, was over a kilometer longer.

And 100 years ago it was 20 kilometers longer. The vast majority of glacial retreat happened over 100 years ago.

Once again, you parrot factoids that are meaningless. They ignore the historical record for a reason. To frighten the ignorant, and line their pockets with YOUR money.

Don't let them steal your money.

Maybe, I don't know. What I do know is that it is still happening.

At a significantly lower rate than in the past. Hmmm, either the glaciers are running out of ice, or maybe....just maybe, the planet is starting to cool again. Hmm. There is actual real evidence to support that. Not computer derived fiction, but REAL evidence of cooling.

Maybe, I don't know, but most climatologists would disagree with you.

Who cares. They are nothing more than pseudo scientists at this point. They rely on computer derived fiction to support their positions. They rely on falsified data to support their positions, which supports their "sustainable" companies that they all own, and who's government funding they rely on to keep themselves living high on the hog.

Appeals to authority are logic fails.

They are logic fails for a reason.

So you're saying that the overwhelming number of climatologists are corrupt. Of course your sources are not only honest but appealing to them is OK since they are not authorities on climate. Yeah, that sounds logical to me.

 

[alang1216]

Critters go extinct all of the time. Adapt or die. You aren't trying to adapt at all. You are trying to stab a cloud.

Pretty hard to do. And in the end, what have you accomplished. Nothing. Nothing at all.

Critters adapt biologically or go extinct. Man adapts culturally or goes extinct. Native American hunter gatherers were biologically the same as Europeans but their level of technology was much lower. That meant the Europeans had a much higher population and were able to, essentially make the natives extinct.

I want our level of technical know-how to match our challenges and that won't happen if we hide our heads in the sand.