Which Side Are You On?

[georgephillip]

Common Dreams? They should rename that site to Common Drug-Fueled Paranoid Fantasies.

Neocons! Booga booga!

Which should make it relatively easy for a "proud" conservative to explain why neo-cons embrace the Second Amendment yet decline to apply the Constitution to the denial of habeas corpus? Is it pride, vanity or stupidity that enables neo-cons to defend the 2010 Citizens United ruling "even though the Constitution grants no rights to corporations and the Founding Fathers warned against the excessive power of monied interests."

Do you personally think it's coincidental Corporate personhood was enshrined at the same time Jim Crow and the Robber Barrons reared their rich, white conservative heads?

See if you can refute the message and not the messenger, for once.

Which Side Are You On? New Language for a New Political Reality | Common Dreams

The message is self-refuting, as it's not based on reality.

But let me ask you this: Do you think labor unions should engage in political activity and make donations to candidates?

I think US labor has a First Amendment right to donate to US candidates.

Possibly you should consider how some conservatives reacted to mid-20th century labor struggles:

"'Republicans in Wisconsin are seeking to reverse civic traditions that for more than a century have been among the most celebrated achievements not just of their state, but of their own party as well.... [W]hile Americans are aware of this progressive tradition, they probably don't know that many of the innovations on behalf of working people were at least as much the work of Republicans as of Democrats....

"'When Gov. Gaylord A. Nelson, a Democrat, sought to extend collective bargaining rights to municipal workers in 1959, he did so in partnership with a Legislature in which one house was controlled by the Republicans.

"'Both sides believed the normalization of labor-management relations would increase efficiency and avoid crippling strikes like those of the Milwaukee garbage collectors during the 1950s.

"'Later, in 1967, when collective bargaining was extended to state workers for the same reasons, the reform was promoted by a Republican governor, Warren P. Knowles, with a Republican Legislature. The policies that the current governor, Scott Walker, has sought to overturn, in other words, are legacies of his own party." ("Wisconsin's Radical Break," March 21, 2011)'"

Which Side Are You On? New Language for a New Political Reality | Common Dreams

 

[thereisnospoon]

Were those who fought WWII "owed" the GI Bill?

How about their children, the millions of boomers now facing retirement?
Are they "owed" Social Security and Medicare benefits they've contributed to for decades?

Taxes are investments in democracy.
They fund the infrastructure that enables corporations to exist, much less prosper by outsourcing.
What has greater potential for positive financial return than public education?

For thousands of years all governments have socialized costs and privatized profits for the benefit of a small percentage of humanity. It's time to privatize many of the costs and start socializing most of the profits for the majority of humanity.

Oh please. You're now Archie Bunker. You're doing the very thing to which you object. You're waxing nostalgic in order to support your point.
The GI Bill which allowed veterans to obtain mortgages at lower rates. The program is no one the overstuffed and inefficient welfare programs which burn up nearly half their budgets in administrative costs.
Who said government schools are superior? Beg to differ. Private and now Charter schools produce better students, graduate at a higher percentage and send a far higher percentage of those graduates to college.
The reasons why public schools exist is because of teacher's unions, the ability of local authorities to levy taxes for whatever purpose they see fit and because of a perception that private schools are enclaves for the wealthiest kids.
Every year taxpayers pour hundreds of billions of dollars into public school systems. Some are successful most are not. Many inner city school systems and many in rural areas are terrible. All that aside the one aspect that comes about when government officials are challenged with questions regarding failing schools....money. And what has government done every single time? They have increased taxes. They have this idiotic belief that one can solve a problem by throwing money at it. With public schools, that has NEVER worked.
I'm going to save you a lot of typing. Please stop using other people's material and posting it here. All this stuff of "common dreams" and "public good"...this is all scary socialist/communist stuff that you are getting form far left radical blogs.
Stop posting that shit here.
If a socialist utopia is your vision for the US, then say so. Stop hiding behind these people from which you get your opinions. Be a man and say what you want.

What does corporate education teach its students about the US War Racket?

History of U.S. Military Interventions since 1890

Private school don't always educate.
They train students to perform well on standardized tests.
Which turns the students into useful cogs in the corporate state.

If you seriously doubt the fact that all governments exist to socialize costs while privatizing profit, you need to worry less about my manhood and start improving your mind.

WHere did you hear that garbage?
It is the public schools which "teach the test".
Private schools invariably produce more graduates and more college students than public schools. Those are facts. They are not in dispute.
And please don't give me the 60's hippie "useful cogs in the corporate state" bullshit.
So sad for you but people decide to become educated and trained so that they can improve their value as an employee or make them more prepared to run their own business.
If you object to this, tough shit. It's the way it is.

 

[georgephillip]

I am a free market liberal who believes in externalities (i.e. one of the strongest arguments for government intervention).

I find myself on the outside of mainstream politics happening in D.C. I am not being represented.

I don't think it's in the political interests of elected Democrats OR Republicans to represent your interests.

lol...of course its not.

The only solution that occurs to me is attempting to convince millions of US voters, including those who normally don't bother casting a ballot, to vote AGAINST both major parties' incumbents starting in November 2012.

I have been doing that for the pat three elections and it doesn't work.

I feel your pain.

Individually, we're loons howling at the full moon; however, that doesn't mean some of us won't figure out how to take the "Anti-Vote" viral.

Back in the 1930s, Huey Long compared DC to a restaurant that served only one dish.
There were Republican waiters along one wall.
And Democrat waiters lined the other.
But whichever party delivered your order, "all the grub came from Wall Street's kitchen."

 

[Antiderivative]

I don't think it's in the political interests of elected Democrats OR Republicans to represent your interests.

lol...of course its not.

The only solution that occurs to me is attempting to convince millions of US voters, including those who normally don't bother casting a ballot, to vote AGAINST both major parties' incumbents starting in November 2012.

I have been doing that for the pat three elections and it doesn't work.

I feel your pain.

Individually, we're loons howling at the full moon; however, that doesn't mean some of us won't figure out how to take the "Anti-Vote" viral.

Back in the 1930s, Huey Long compared DC to a restaurant that served only one dish.
There were Republican waiters along one wall.
And Democrat waiters lined the other.
But whichever party delivered your order, "all the grub came from Wall Street's kitchen."

And then they tax you and add 20% gratuity while feeding you gruel all while self-righteously declaring that you had a choice in the menu.

 

[georgephillip]

I'm on the good guys' side.

Do you know what side is that?

It's whatever side I'm on.

Sounds slightly circular.

"I like to say I'm more conservative than Goldwater. He just wanted to turn the clock back to when there was no income tax. I want to turn the clock back to when people lived in small villages and took care of each other." -- Pete Seeger"

Pete or Barry?

Which Side Are You On? New Language for a New Political Reality | Common Dreams

Fail...once again you post the words of another person instead of your own.
Who cares what Pete fucking Seeger thinks or thought during a moment of drug induced euphoria.

Your ignorance is impressive, even by conservative standards.

"In 1982 Seeger performed at a benefit concert for Poland's Solidarity resistance movement. His biographer David Dunaway considers this the first public manifestation of Seeger's decades-long personal dislike of communism in its Soviet form.[56]

"In the late 1980s Seeger also expressed disapproval of violent revolutions, remarking to an interviewer that he was really in favor of incremental change and that 'the most lasting revolutions are those that take place over a period of time.'[56] In his autobiography Where Have All the Flowers Gone (1993 and 1997 reissued in 2009), Seeger wrote, 'Should I apologize for all this? I think so...'"

Pete Seeger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Any thoughts on Gandhi?

 

[georgephillip]

The Constitution doesn't protect enemy combatants caught on the battlefield without a uniform.

The Constitution once protected US citizens from warrantless surveillance in their homes.

Remember?

still does..unless of course one has been communicating with known international terrorists or terror sympathizers.
Hey, sunshine your guy here in the White House wants the authority to take over and even stop the internet. Talk about paranoid.

"Ultimately, though, the entire legal debate in the NSA scandal comes down to these few, very clear and straightforward facts: Congress passed a law in 1978 making it a criminal offense to eavesdrop on Americans without judicial oversight. Nobody of any significance ever claimed that that law was unconstitutional.

"The Administration not only never claimed it was unconstitutional, but Bush expressly asked for changes to the law in the aftermath of 9/11, thereafter praised the law, and misled Congress and the American people into believing that they were complying with the law.

"In reality, the Administration was secretly breaking the law, and then pleaded with The New York Times not to reveal this.

"Once caught, the Administration claimed it has the right to break the law and will continue to do so."

NSA warrantless surveillance controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It doesn't matter if it's Bush or Obama (neither of whom are "my" guy) in the White House. The Internet has the potential to FLUSH Republicans AND Democrats into history's cesspool. The first chance either party gets to enact corporate control over cyberspace will likely be the first step in putting an end to conversations like this one.

 

[bripat9643]

I think US labor has a First Amendment right to donate to US candidates.

ROFL! The First Amendment doesn't protect donations to politicians.

Possibly you should consider how some conservatives reacted to mid-20th century labor struggles:

"'Republicans in Wisconsin are seeking to reverse civic traditions that for more than a century have been among the most celebrated achievements not just of their state, but of their own party as well.... [W]hile Americans are aware of this progressive tradition, they probably don't know that many of the innovations on behalf of working people were at least as much the work of Republicans as of Democrats....

"'When Gov. Gaylord A. Nelson, a Democrat, sought to extend collective bargaining rights to municipal workers in 1959, he did so in partnership with a Legislature in which one house was controlled by the Republicans.

"'Both sides believed the normalization of labor-management relations would increase efficiency and avoid crippling strikes like those of the Milwaukee garbage collectors during the 1950s.

"'Later, in 1967, when collective bargaining was extended to state workers for the same reasons, the reform was promoted by a Republican governor, Warren P. Knowles, with a Republican Legislature. The policies that the current governor, Scott Walker, has sought to overturn, in other words, are legacies of his own party." ("Wisconsin's Radical Break," March 21, 2011)'"

Which Side Are You On? New Language for a New Political Reality | Common Dreams

The Wisconsin Republican Party always was extremely liberal. "Republican" does not equate to "conservative."

No one cares what idiots did in the past. Government employees should not be compelled to join unions. That arrangement is totally corrupt.

End of story.

 

[bripat9643]

I feel your pain.

Individually, we're loons howling at the full moon; however, that doesn't mean some of us won't figure out how to take the "Anti-Vote" viral.

Back in the 1930s, Huey Long compared DC to a restaurant that served only one dish.
There were Republican waiters along one wall.
And Democrat waiters lined the other.
But whichever party delivered your order, "all the grub came from Wall Street's kitchen."

I'll be happy to join your campaign to convince left-wingers not to vote.

 

[georgephillip]

If (when) the US economy deteriorates to such an extent that as many Americans are paying attention to politics in the same way we did during the week after 911, that's when I expect the state to begin actively interfering with cyberspace.

Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any possibility of winning the class war without more people paying attention.

No one wins the class war. It's a suicide pact.

The kernel of truth to that is found in history , not to mention the many ongoing conflicts we're reading on right now



or, in a more Morganesqe directness of the general populace> They can always buy one 1/2 to kill the other 1/2

What percentage of their fortunes will they spend to ensure their privileges continue?

There will certainly be no shortage of taxpayer-trained killers waiting to accept their money.

Sounds like a really good movie or a reality where the living will envy the dead.

 

[bripat9643]

Back in the 1930s, Huey Long compared DC to a restaurant that served only one dish.
There were Republican waiters along one wall.
And Democrat waiters lined the other.
But whichever party delivered your order, "all the grub came from Wall Street's kitchen."

And then they tax you and add 20% gratuity while feeding you gruel all while self-righteously declaring that you had a choice in the menu.

But you want to raise the tax to 60%.

 

[Antiderivative]

The Wisconsin Republican Party always was extremely liberal. "Republican" does not equate to "conservative."

No one cares what idiots did in the past. Government employees should not be compelled to join unions. That arrangement is totally corrupt.

End of story.

Absolutely, but the dishonesty is fucking astounding. I am not a fan of public unions, but to fabricate a fake deficit crisis while cutting the taxes on the rich in order to discredit average workers during a time of a severe economic crisis if nothing but being a fucking asshole. It is simply placing misguided ideology before your fellow man.

There is a time and place to attack public unions, but being deceitful asshats about it is fucking absurd. It is incomprehensible.

 

[bripat9643]

Your ignorance is impressive, even by conservative standards.

"In 1982 Seeger performed at a benefit concert for Poland's Solidarity resistance movement. His biographer David Dunaway considers this the first public manifestation of Seeger's decades-long personal dislike of communism in its Soviet form.[56]

"In the late 1980s Seeger also expressed disapproval of violent revolutions, remarking to an interviewer that he was really in favor of incremental change and that 'the most lasting revolutions are those that take place over a period of time.'[56] In his autobiography Where Have All the Flowers Gone (1993 and 1997 reissued in 2009), Seeger wrote, 'Should I apologize for all this? I think so...'"

Pete Seeger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"In its Soviet Form?" Pete Seeger was a member of the America Communist Party which took orders directly from Joseph Stalin!

 

[bripat9643]

What percentage of their fortunes will they spend to ensure their privileges continue?

There will certainly be no shortage of taxpayer-trained killers waiting to accept their money.

Sounds like a really good movie or a reality where the living will envy the dead.

So you think the rich are hiring assassins to knock off leftwing politicians?

Do you hear the music from the Outer Limits playing in your head?

 

[bripat9643]

Absolutely, but the dishonesty is fucking astounding. I am not a fan of public unions, but to fabricate a fake deficit crisis while cutting the taxes on the rich in order to discredit average workers during a time of a severe economic crisis if nothing but being a fucking asshole. It is simply placing misguided ideology before your fellow man.

There is a time and place to attack public unions, but being deceitful asshats about it is fucking absurd. It is incomprehensible.

What "fake deficit?" I've never seen any evidence of such.

 

[Antiderivative]

Back in the 1930s, Huey Long compared DC to a restaurant that served only one dish.
There were Republican waiters along one wall.
And Democrat waiters lined the other.
But whichever party delivered your order, "all the grub came from Wall Street's kitchen."

And then they tax you and add 20% gratuity while feeding you gruel all while self-righteously declaring that you had a choice in the menu.

But you want to raise the tax to 60%.

I do? I do believe in progressive taxation, but it should be applied to consumption rather than investment and income.

Unfortunately, you are a dumbass reich wing troll who cannot acknowledge this fact. All you want is lower taxes and crony capitalism, but this is no surprise coming from someone who has made his living through nepotism, instead of finding his own way in life.

 

[georgephillip]

It is so obvious looking back at the 70s (followed by Reagan's Revolution) at the beginning of our Great Divergence of incomes. Maybe those "goals of an earlier generation of reformers" were noticeable to those who went to college, but they were invisible to me. I expect they are even more opaque to today's generations.

The great Compression, or so it's dubbed to portray the disparity /escape from it / return to it

and in honesty, we all rode the me-me-me-me bandwagon of Mammonism towards that result we're now arguing about George

Greed wrapped in entitlement and arrogance is still greed, and all the Reagan worship in washington (or here) can't hide it imho....

The Great Compression was the term I was thinking about.

Maybe when those who lived through the Great Depression began to disappear we experienced a time similar to when the generation who fought the Revolutionary War, and remembered the tyranny of the East India Company, died off and their descendents lost citizen control over corporations?

There's little doubt who's calling the political shots today.

Mammon's holding all the corporate aces.

 

[bripat9643]

I do? I do believe in progressive taxation, but it should be applied to consumption rather than investment and income.

Unfortunately, you are a dumbass reich wing troll who cannot acknowledge this fact. All you want is lower taxes and crony capitalism, but this is no surprise coming from someone who has made his living through nepotism, instead of finding his own way in life.

How do you pass a "progressive" consumption tax? Do businesses have to demand your W2 forms before they sell you something?

 

[georgephillip]

I feel your pain.

Individually, we're loons howling at the full moon; however, that doesn't mean some of us won't figure out how to take the "Anti-Vote" viral.

Back in the 1930s, Huey Long compared DC to a restaurant that served only one dish.
There were Republican waiters along one wall.
And Democrat waiters lined the other.
But whichever party delivered your order, "all the grub came from Wall Street's kitchen."

I'll be happy to join your campaign to convince left-wingers not to vote.

Are you enlightened enough to realize the "choosing" between Democrat OR Republican does absolutely nothing to diminish Wall Street's control over your life?

 

[Antiderivative]

I do? I do believe in progressive taxation, but it should be applied to consumption rather than investment and income.

Unfortunately, you are a dumbass reich wing troll who cannot acknowledge this fact. All you want is lower taxes and crony capitalism, but this is no surprise coming from someone who has made his living through nepotism, instead of finding his own way in life.

How do you pass a "progressive" consumption tax? Do businesses have to demand your W2 forms before they sell you something?

I don't believe in lengthy tax bills and tax loopholes. All I know is that government needs some revenue and that is created through taxation.

Where is the best place to levy that tax? One place is consumption. It is so much better than taxing savings and investment, which this country is short on.

 

[georgephillip]

Your ignorance is impressive, even by conservative standards.

"In 1982 Seeger performed at a benefit concert for Poland's Solidarity resistance movement. His biographer David Dunaway considers this the first public manifestation of Seeger's decades-long personal dislike of communism in its Soviet form.[56]

"In the late 1980s Seeger also expressed disapproval of violent revolutions, remarking to an interviewer that he was really in favor of incremental change and that 'the most lasting revolutions are those that take place over a period of time.'[56] In his autobiography Where Have All the Flowers Gone (1993 and 1997 reissued in 2009), Seeger wrote, 'Should I apologize for all this? I think so...'"

Pete Seeger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"In its Soviet Form?" Pete Seeger was a member of the America Communist Party which took orders directly from Joseph Stalin!

Here's Pete's apology:

"How could Hitler have been stopped? Litvinov, the Soviet delegate to the League of Nations in '36, proposed a worldwide quarantine but got no takers. For more on those times check out pacifist Dave Dellinger's book, From Yale to Jail....[57] At any rate, today I'll apologize for a number of things, such as thinking that Stalin was merely a 'hard driver' and not a supremely cruel misleader.'

"I guess anyone who calls himself a Christian should be prepared to apologize for the Inquisition, the burning of heretics by Protestants, the slaughter of Jews and Muslims by Crusaders.

"White people in the U.S.A ought to apologize for stealing land from Native Americans and enslaving blacks. Europeans could apologize for worldwide conquests, Mongolians for Genghis Khan.

"And supporters of Roosevelt could apologize for his support of Somoza, of Southern White Democrats, of Franco Spain, for putting Japanese Americans in concentration camps.

"Who should my granddaughter Moraya apologize to? She's part African, part European, part Chinese, part Japanese, part Native American. Let's look ahead.[58][59]

Where's yours?

Pete Seeger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia