White man shoots innocent black teen....

[paperview]

I posted this earlier:

I'm posting this so people may get some perspective onthe layout of the actual scene:

This information is supplied by someone who went to the scene not long after the shooting:

Thank you.

I think if you read the addresses given in the police report, he was further down that courtyard area, maybe as much as halfway; the officer (Smith) says it was between apartments 1231 Twin Trees Lane and 2821 Retreat View Circle --- and that he parked his police car at the 2821 address and walked between the buildings to find Martin and Zimmerman. Videos and photos (media interviews, Martin's father's interview, still photos from news sites online) show the turf torn up where the fight took place, and it's a good distance from the end of the walk.

Yes, Emma. It was at that address, but look at another map. It could not have been that far down in the courtyard. The red star was a little higher than it could have been, but only by a hair.

Here's another map.

Now the above source is from an one I am not familiar with, but the author breaks it down with what looks credible.

(Also, note the police report said he was responding to 1111 Retreat View ...)

Google Maps and Zillow;
Zimmerman's call to 911 [transcript], in which he gives directions to his parked car;
The City of Sanford initial police report, which indicates the police found the body in the walkway between 1231 Twin Trees Lane and 2821 Retreat View Circle;
film footage the night of the crime and following day from Fox Orlando;
a neighborhood shot from the Tampa Bay Times;
and MapQuest, which locates a 7-Eleven at 1125 Rinehart Rd, Sanford FL (GoogleMaps consistently overlooks this). That is about 3/4 mile from the Retreat at Twin Lakes, and the logical approach would be by way of the main gate.
The gist - Trayvon Martin seemed to have been on a logical path home, which would have ended in the back yard of the home he was visiting after passing down an open walkway. He was roughly a hundred yards from home when he was shot.
George Zimmerman parked near the intersection of a pedestrian walkway and Twin Trees Lane. He was roughly thirty yards from his car when he fired the fatal shot.

(See above map)

The blue circle is the likely location of George Zimmerman's car. Let's follow along on the 911 transcript as he describes his location to the police, with my notes embedded:
Zimmerman: If they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the club house, and uh, straight past the club house and make a left [onto Twin Trees Lane], and then they go past the mailboxes, that's my truck...[unintelligible]
Dispatcher: What address are you parked in front of?
Zimmerman: I don't know, it's a cut through so I don't know the address.
The obvious cut through area is circled in blue

Again, the author is working off the available information on the net - not as the previous fellows who went to the area, talked to the neighbors, and took the pictures.

"...some stills from the Fox Orlando footage. I assert, using my imagination and keying off of the pooper scooper, that the Fox camera was located on Retreat View Circle at the red "Fox 35" label, looking along the red arrow towards the crime scene. Here we go:
The pooper scooper is obvious, as is the sidewalk; that ought to be Twin Trees Lane in the background. Another shot:

The back of the pooper scooper is visible; the sidewalk pattern near the street jibes nicely with the Fox35 location I marked.
Finally, the Fox report concludes with a chat with Trayvon's dad and his significant other; they take a quick walk down the commons area, turn, and look dramatically at... well, not much, but the situation strongly suggests it is where Martin was killed.

There's more here that outlines it further: JustOneMinute: Last Map Of The Retreat At Twin Lakes


Not sure how much credence I can give to the above, but it appears logical to me.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I posted this earlier:

I'm posting this so people may get some perspective onthe layout of the actual scene:

This information is supplied by someone who went to the scene not long after the shooting:

Thank you.

I think if you read the addresses given in the police report, he was further down that courtyard area, maybe as much as halfway; the officer (Smith) says it was between apartments 1231 Twin Trees Lane and 2821 Retreat View Circle --- and that he parked his police car at the 2821 address and walked between the buildings to find Martin and Zimmerman. Videos and photos (media interviews, Martin's father's interview, still photos from news sites online) show the turf torn up where the fight took place, and it's a good distance from the end of the walk.

Yes, Emma. It was at that address, but look at another map. It could not have been that far down in the courtyard. The red star was a little higher than it could have been, but only by a hair.

Here's another map.

Now the above source is from an one I am not familiar with, but the author breaks it down with what looks credible.

(Also, note the police report said he was responding to a call that was reported in the area of...)

Google Maps and Zillow;
Zimmerman's call to 911 [transcript], in which he gives directions to his parked car;
The City of Sanford initial police report, which indicates the police found the body in the walkway between 1231 Twin Trees Lane and 2821 Retreat View Circle;
film footage the night of the crime and following day from Fox Orlando;
a neighborhood shot from the Tampa Bay Times;
and MapQuest, which locates a 7-Eleven at 1125 Rinehart Rd, Sanford FL (GoogleMaps consistently overlooks this). That is about 3/4 mile from the Retreat at Twin Lakes, and the logical approach would be by way of the main gate.
The gist - Trayvon Martin seemed to have been on a logical path home, which would have ended in the back yard of the home he was visiting after passing down an open walkway. He was roughly a hundred yards from home when he was shot.
George Zimmerman parked near the intersection of a pedestrian walkway and Twin Trees Lane. He was roughly thirty yards from his car when he fired the fatal shot.

(See above map)

The blue circle is the likely location of George Zimmerman's car. Let's follow along on the 911 transcript as he describes his location to the police, with my notes embedded:
Zimmerman: If they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the club house, and uh, straight past the club house and make a left [onto Twin Trees Lane], and then they go past the mailboxes, that's my truck...[unintelligible]
Dispatcher: What address are you parked in front of?
Zimmerman: I don't know, it's a cut through so I don't know the address.
The obvious cut through area is circled in blue

Again, the author is working off the available information on the net - not as the previous fellows who went to the area, talked to the neighbors, and took the pictures.

some stills from the Fox Orlando footage. I assert, using my imagination and keying off of the pooper scooper, that the Fox camera was located on Retreat View Circle at the red "Fox 35" label, looking along the red arrow towards the crime scene. Here we go:
The pooper scooper is obvious, as is the sidewalk; that ought to be Twin Trees Lane in the background. Another shot:

The back of the pooper scooper is visible; the sidewalk pattern near the street jibes nicely with the Fox35 location I marked.
Finally, the Fox report concludes with a chat with Trayvon's dad and his significant other; they take a quick walk down the commons area, turn, and look dramatically at... well, not much, but the situation strongly suggests it is where Martin was killed.



There's more here that outlines it further: JustOneMinute: Last Map Of The Retreat At Twin Lakes


Not sure how much credence I can give to the above, but it appears logical to me.

Again more evidence? What is those people's training in collecting evidence?

 

[paperview]

Again more evidence? What is those people's training in collecting evidence?

I really don't give a crap what you think about my posts, dimreb.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Again more evidence? What is those people's training in collecting evidence?

I really don't give a crap what you think about my posts, dimreb.

Dumb ass if you want to use evidence that is incorrect and would be inadmissible in court knock yourself out.

 

[paperview]

I'm not in a fucking courtroom, idiot.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I'm not in a fucking courtroom, idiot.

But you are trying to make a point of Zimmerman's guilty aren't you? Why not try that with the evidence the police have and have submitted for public viewing. Instead of using untested evidence that can be inaccurate

 

[paperview]

I don't know how to make it any clearer. MY point in that post was that the place marked in the aerial view is incorrect, according to the addresses and narrative in the police report.

And that is and has always been my point also. Their information has errors, they as far as I know have no experience collecting evidence and what has been provided through their source shows. They might as well be Wikipedia.

I can't speak to the other photos. Just the aerial image.

That is why I've said all along that Zimmerman's account did not make any sense. According to the police report, the shooting did not take place near his vehicle. He HAD to have followed Martin into that courtyard. No matter what Zimmerman said when told not to follow, it's clear he did, IF you believe what officer Smith stated in his narrative. Both accounts cannot be true.

Have you seen this video from the night after the shooting Emm?

Trayvon Martin shot and killed in neighborhood altercation

This is where we first heard from "John" -- who wierdly the Fox news affiliate reported weeks after saying he was "a new witness" - even though the affiliate had him on tape Feb 27th. They even used the same footage from the Feb 27th taping.
lol.

 

[Si modo]

And that is and has always been my point also. Their information has errors, they as far as I know have no experience collecting evidence and what has been provided through their source shows. They might as well be Wikipedia.

I can't speak to the other photos. Just the aerial image.

That is why I've said all along that Zimmerman's account did not make any sense. According to the police report, the shooting did not take place near his vehicle. He HAD to have followed Martin into that courtyard. No matter what Zimmerman said when told not to follow, it's clear he did, IF you believe what officer Smith stated in his narrative. Both accounts cannot be true.

Have you seen this video from the night after the shooting Emm?

Trayvon Martin shot and killed in neighborhood altercation

This is where we first heard from "John" -- who wierdly the Fox news affiliate reported weeks after saying he was "a new witness" - even though the affiliate had him on tape Feb 27th. They even used the same footage from the Feb 27th taping.
lol.

Yes, she has. We've even noted that the grammar issues in his statement to the affiliate make it unclear.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

And that is and has always been my point also. Their information has errors, they as far as I know have no experience collecting evidence and what has been provided through their source shows. They might as well be Wikipedia.

I can't speak to the other photos. Just the aerial image.

That is why I've said all along that Zimmerman's account did not make any sense. According to the police report, the shooting did not take place near his vehicle. He HAD to have followed Martin into that courtyard. No matter what Zimmerman said when told not to follow, it's clear he did, IF you believe what officer Smith stated in his narrative. Both accounts cannot be true.

Have you seen this video from the night after the shooting Emm?

Trayvon Martin shot and killed in neighborhood altercation

This is where we first heard from "John" -- who wierdly the Fox news affiliate reported weeks after saying he was "a new witness" - even though the affiliate had him on tape Feb 27th. They even used the same footage from the Feb 27th taping.
lol.

Was John a witness? Did he see what happen? What does it matter about FOX news reporting it and reporting it again as a new witness?

 

[luv4God_Country]

About this Treyvon Martin deal ~ it really ticks me off that these Civil Rights Leaders and the President are all over this incident, along with the Black Panthers, who pretty much put a bounty on Zimmerman's head! Obama was out of line making his presidental speech about the incident. I ask you this: Would President Obama do the same thing if it were a white teen shot by a black man? What about Zimmerman's civil rights? Shouldn't these Civil Rights Leaders be standing up for everyone's civil rights, not just people of their color? I'm not just referring to this particular incident. What about the homicide that took place in Portland, Oregon when 55-year-old Jesus Rodriguez-Garcia was beaten so severely he died after 10 days in the hospital. The four men, ranging in age from 26-38, and ethnic background, broke into his home with brass knuckles, baseball bat and hand gun. This crime was premeditated! Why wasn't this brought out into national headlines, or any of the other tens of thousands of homicide cases when blacks are murdering whites and hispanics? Keyword here, murder; NOT self-defense!

 

[Foxfyre]

I hope everyone listens to that youtube you put up. It shows what a dishonest piece of shit your are. "Fucking coons" is clearly audible. People might also wish to go to the original, to see how you changed the title. You're a real lowlife.

I don't hear it in the Youtube version I have listened to. Maybe the version you have was altered--the equivalent of photoshopped that is quite easy to do with Youtube. That would not be beyond a possibility given the obviously biased images that accompany the voices on the recording. The version posted here was prepared by somebody obviously wanting to take Zimmerman down.

I have posted a video of the 911 audio and in my opinion is the best sounding version thus far. Even in that version you can't hear what he actually said, but you can here the ding ding of key's in the ignition the slaming of a vehicle door foot steps on concert. but the fucking coon part isn't that clear.

Even if it is there, it wouldn't make Zimmerman anything other than somebody who uses racial epithets of which probably 50% of the country including ALL races probably does at some time or another. Though it would be such a stupid thing to do to gun somebody down after you had already called the cops to the scene and knew they were on the way, Zimmerman may be guilty of cold blooded murder and if he is, he should experience the full force of the law. I don't know. Nobody else here knows.

I am 99% certain that if Zimmerman was a black man, we would not be having this discussion.

In my opinion it is racist and reprehensible to single this case out as somehow more tragic or more hateful or more hurtful and more worthy of national attention than those events in Chicago yesterday or anywhere else in the country where tragedies are happening because somebody intended to do violence to another. Everything about it smells of racist opportunism and shame on those who would judge somebody purely by the color of his skin.

 

[JimBowie1958]

What about the homicide that took place in Portland, Oregon when 55-year-old Jesus Rodriguez-Garcia was beaten so severely he died after 10 days in the hospital. The four men, ranging in age from 26-38, and ethnic background, broke into his home with brass knuckles, baseball bat and hand gun. This crime was premeditated! Why wasn't this brought out into national headlines, or any of the other tens of thousands of homicide cases when blacks are murdering whites and hispanics? Keyword here, murder; NOT self-defense!

Because that story does not play into the over-arching libtard them of 'stand your ground laws are evil'.

If they did then we would hear about them ad-nauseum.

Another case the libtards are hyping is that of a guy who got shot in FL right after passage of the law. He got shot by a neighbor as the shootee was trying to force his way into the home of the shooter.

It didnt get much sympathy from anyone, so it was left alone.

Just shows how thin the examples are of abuse of these laws and in the long run the will be even more demand for them especially after Sharptons incited riots break out.

 

[LilOlLady]

ZIMMERMAN’S MEDICAL RECORDS.

Zimmerman’s medical records may show a broken nose but cannot show “when, where or how” he got the broken nose. He did not go into ER until the “next day” for medical attention. Any thing could have happen between the time of the incident and the time he entered ER.

“Desperate times call for desperate measures”
Sir Walter Scott,

In an interview with WOFL, the Fox station in Orlando, Zimmerman's father says the neighborhood watch volunteer deemed Martin suspicious because he was walking in the rain between townhouses, instead of on the street or the sidewalk. He adds that Zimmerman kept following Martin after the police dispatcher suggested that he stop because he wanted to get an address from one of the houses so he would know where exactly he was in the development.
Did Police and Paramedics Conspire to Invent George Zimmerman's Injuries? - Hit & Run : Reason Magazine


So, police at the scene of the murder and Sanford Fire Department Rescue 38 thought George's injuries did not require him be put in an ambulance for treatment, rather, his injuries only required first aid in the back seat of a cop car and then "cleared" him for any: concussion, swelling or bleeding of the brain, whiplash, broken nose and no bandage to cover alleged open head wound.
Daily Kos: Zimmerman Received First Aid in the Back Seat of a Police Car & Not Ambulance - that makes no sense

 

[LilOlLady]

I don't hear it in the Youtube version I have listened to. Maybe the version you have was altered--the equivalent of photoshopped that is quite easy to do with Youtube. That would not be beyond a possibility given the obviously biased images that accompany the voices on the recording. The version posted here was prepared by somebody obviously wanting to take Zimmerman down.

I have posted a video of the 911 audio and in my opinion is the best sounding version thus far. Even in that version you can't hear what he actually said, but you can here the ding ding of key's in the ignition the slaming of a vehicle door foot steps on concert. but the fucking coon part isn't that clear.

Even if it is there, it wouldn't make Zimmerman anything other than somebody who uses racial epithets of which probably 50% of the country including ALL races probably does at some time or another. Though it would be such a stupid thing to do to gun somebody down after you had already called the cops to the scene and knew they were on the way, Zimmerman may be guilty of cold blooded murder and if he is, he should experience the full force of the law. I don't know. Nobody else here knows.

I am 99% certain that if Zimmerman was a black man, we would not be having this discussion.

In my opinion it is racist and reprehensible to single this case out as somehow more tragic or more hateful or more hurtful and more worthy of national attention than those events in Chicago yesterday or anywhere else in the country where tragedies are happening because somebody intended to do violence to another. Everything about it smells of racist opportunism and shame on those who would judge somebody purely by the color of his skin.

Of course not because if a black man had killed him and claimed self defense he would have been arrested and setting in prison by now. Or like Emit Till would not even have a trial just hung up. How old are you anyway child?

 

[Foxfyre]

I have posted a video of the 911 audio and in my opinion is the best sounding version thus far. Even in that version you can't hear what he actually said, but you can here the ding ding of key's in the ignition the slaming of a vehicle door foot steps on concert. but the fucking coon part isn't that clear.

Even if it is there, it wouldn't make Zimmerman anything other than somebody who uses racial epithets of which probably 50% of the country including ALL races probably does at some time or another. Though it would be such a stupid thing to do to gun somebody down after you had already called the cops to the scene and knew they were on the way, Zimmerman may be guilty of cold blooded murder and if he is, he should experience the full force of the law. I don't know. Nobody else here knows.

I am 99% certain that if Zimmerman was a black man, we would not be having this discussion.

In my opinion it is racist and reprehensible to single this case out as somehow more tragic or more hateful or more hurtful and more worthy of national attention than those events in Chicago yesterday or anywhere else in the country where tragedies are happening because somebody intended to do violence to another. Everything about it smells of racist opportunism and shame on those who would judge somebody purely by the color of his skin.

Of course not because if a black man had killed him and claimed self defense he would have been arrested and setting in prison by now. Or like Emit Till would not even have a trial just hung up. How old are you anyway child?

Do you know that for a fact given Florida's new 'stand your ground' law? Are you suggesting that the entire Sanford Police force is racist and would have treated a black man differently than they treated Zimmerman? How many of the officers reporting to the scene were themselves black? Do we know that? Can you show that a black man in similar circumstances has been arrested in Flordia since that law was passed while Zimmerman was not?

Can you answer such questions without going ad homiinem and being personally insulting?

(And I'm old enough I think to go one on one with you.)

 

[California Girl]

Police arrived within a minute of the shooting. He recovered from that severe brain injury pretty damned fast.

Right.

People who get knocked out just dont come back to conciousness.

Take Boxing or MMA. Never seen one get up and immdiately give an interview in the ring.

Those guys are out for weeks on life-support when they get knocked or chocked unconscious.

Never said that.

But for someone who was "barely conscious" and couldn't remember anything past moving his head onto the grass (now isn't THAT convenient??), within the hour he was moving fluidly and steadily without any assistance out of the car and into the building. With his hands cuffed behind his back. Not to mention that the paramedics cleared him on scene, with no need for further evaluation. Don't try to tell me that EMS is going to do that with someone who had been "barely conscious", amnesiac, and moments away from a life of incontinence and total custodial care.

Hell, he was standing, coherent and cooperative and --- what luck! --- remembering everything a minute later when the first officer arrived.

George's brother is full of shit.

I've been knocked unconscious.... and I was able to walk minutes later. I also lost 4 months memory at the time. The EMTs who attended... they cleared me too.... fortunately, I had a brother who recognized the signs of concussion later.

So, yea.... EMTs may have cleared him.

Personally, I think some people are desperately flailing around looking for rope to hang Zimmerman. I prefer the due process that this country used to value..... before the days of trial by media, followed by an American Idol 'vote' guilty or innocent.

 

[paperview]

ZIMMERMAN’S MEDICAL RECORDS.

Zimmerman’s medical records may show a broken nose but cannot show “when, where or how” he got the broken nose. He did not go into ER until the “next day” for medical attention. Any thing could have happen between the time of the incident and the time he entered ER.

“Desperate times call for desperate measures”
Sir Walter Scott,

In an interview with WOFL, the Fox station in Orlando, Zimmerman's father says the neighborhood watch volunteer deemed Martin suspicious because he was walking in the rain between townhouses, instead of on the street or the sidewalk. He adds that Zimmerman kept following Martin after the police dispatcher suggested that he stop because he wanted to get an address from one of the houses so he would know where exactly he was in the development.
Did Police and Paramedics Conspire to Invent George Zimmerman's Injuries? - Hit & Run : Reason Magazine


So, police at the scene of the murder and Sanford Fire Department Rescue 38 thought George's injuries did not require him be put in an ambulance for treatment, rather, his injuries only required first aid in the back seat of a cop car and then "cleared" him for any: concussion, swelling or bleeding of the brain, whiplash, broken nose and no bandage to cover alleged open head wound.
Daily Kos: Zimmerman Received First Aid in the Back Seat of a Police Car & Not Ambulance - that makes no sense

Yeah, that part about him only being treated for a few minutes in the back of the police car, and (if you believe the "enhance" screen shot DC defenders,) walking around the place with AN OPEN HEAD WOUND~ well, dang, what ahootenanny.

Hey everyone! Look a that gash in the back of his head! Healed up in 10 minutes. Jesus must have laid his hands on him in the po-lice car and made him all better!

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Right.

People who get knocked out just dont come back to conciousness.

Take Boxing or MMA. Never seen one get up and immdiately give an interview in the ring.

Those guys are out for weeks on life-support when they get knocked or chocked unconscious.

Never said that.

But for someone who was "barely conscious" and couldn't remember anything past moving his head onto the grass (now isn't THAT convenient??), within the hour he was moving fluidly and steadily without any assistance out of the car and into the building. With his hands cuffed behind his back. Not to mention that the paramedics cleared him on scene, with no need for further evaluation. Don't try to tell me that EMS is going to do that with someone who had been "barely conscious", amnesiac, and moments away from a life of incontinence and total custodial care.

Hell, he was standing, coherent and cooperative and --- what luck! --- remembering everything a minute later when the first officer arrived.

George's brother is full of shit.

I've been knocked unconscious.... and I was able to walk minutes later. I also lost 4 months memory at the time. The EMTs who attended... they cleared me too.... fortunately, I had a brother who recognized the signs of concussion later.

So, yea.... EMTs may have cleared him.

Personally, I think some people are desperately flailing around looking for rope to hang Zimmerman. I prefer the due process that this country used to value..... before the days of trial by media, followed by an American Idol 'vote' guilty or innocent.

EXACTLY. There are some taking evidence that was obtained by the police and trying to show Zimmerman is guilty. Wouldn't you agree that's bad form?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I don't hear it in the Youtube version I have listened to. Maybe the version you have was altered--the equivalent of photoshopped that is quite easy to do with Youtube. That would not be beyond a possibility given the obviously biased images that accompany the voices on the recording. The version posted here was prepared by somebody obviously wanting to take Zimmerman down.

I have posted a video of the 911 audio and in my opinion is the best sounding version thus far. Even in that version you can't hear what he actually said, but you can here the ding ding of key's in the ignition the slaming of a vehicle door foot steps on concert. but the fucking coon part isn't that clear.

Even if it is there, it wouldn't make Zimmerman anything other than somebody who uses racial epithets of which probably 50% of the country including ALL races probably does at some time or another. Though it would be such a stupid thing to do to gun somebody down after you had already called the cops to the scene and knew they were on the way, Zimmerman may be guilty of cold blooded murder and if he is, he should experience the full force of the law. I don't know. Nobody else here knows.

I am 99% certain that if Zimmerman was a black man, we would not be having this discussion.

In my opinion it is racist and reprehensible to single this case out as somehow more tragic or more hateful or more hurtful and more worthy of national attention than those events in Chicago yesterday or anywhere else in the country where tragedies are happening because somebody intended to do violence to another. Everything about it smells of racist opportunism and shame on those who would judge somebody purely by the color of his skin.

I agree 100%

 

[ABikerSailor]

Right.

People who get knocked out just dont come back to conciousness.

Take Boxing or MMA. Never seen one get up and immdiately give an interview in the ring.

Those guys are out for weeks on life-support when they get knocked or chocked unconscious.

Never said that.

But for someone who was "barely conscious" and couldn't remember anything past moving his head onto the grass (now isn't THAT convenient??), within the hour he was moving fluidly and steadily without any assistance out of the car and into the building. With his hands cuffed behind his back. Not to mention that the paramedics cleared him on scene, with no need for further evaluation. Don't try to tell me that EMS is going to do that with someone who had been "barely conscious", amnesiac, and moments away from a life of incontinence and total custodial care.

Hell, he was standing, coherent and cooperative and --- what luck! --- remembering everything a minute later when the first officer arrived.

George's brother is full of shit.

I've been knocked unconscious.... and I was able to walk minutes later. I also lost 4 months memory at the time. The EMTs who attended... they cleared me too.... fortunately, I had a brother who recognized the signs of concussion later.

So, yea.... EMTs may have cleared him.

Personally, I think some people are desperately flailing around looking for rope to hang Zimmerman. I prefer the due process that this country used to value..... before the days of trial by media, followed by an American Idol 'vote' guilty or innocent.

Interestingly enough, there were no EMT's, and Zimmerman was treated by the police in the back of the car.

But..........if Zimmerman was beaten as badly as claimed, why weren't EMTs called to the scene?