Who Are The Palestinains?

[P F Tinmore]

Palestine does not have any borders

I have proven many times that it does.

Why do you always come back pimping Israel's lies?

Seems like you're the one pimping Hamas lies all the time. Give it up. Just because you have associations with Palestinian Arabs doesn't give legitimacy to their claims.

Palestine had borders long before there was Hamas.

 

[MJB12741]

Israel established agreeable borders with both Egypt & Jordan. Who did the Palestinians ever establish agreeable borders with?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Israel established agreeable borders with both Egypt & Jordan. Who did the Palestinians ever establish agreeable borders with?

Israel negotiated Palestinian borders with Egypt and Jordan?

Where did any of them get the authority to do that?

 

[Billo_Really]

Israel established agreeable borders with both Egypt & Jordan.

Borders don't mean shit to Israel.

They are constantly violating the air space of sovereign nations, attacking vessels in international waters and are presently trying to annex land (they have no clear title to) by force.

Who did the Palestinians ever establish agreeable borders with?

The ones they've been living in for the past 2000 years.

 

[Kondor3]

I have proven many times that it does.

Why do you always come back pimping Israel's lies?

Seems like you're the one pimping Hamas lies all the time. Give it up. Just because you have associations with Palestinian Arabs doesn't give legitimacy to their claims.

Palestine had borders long before there was Hamas.

Indeed.

Trouble is, no Palestinian polity ever existed, to rule what lay within those borders.

Given their historical and present-day incompetency in such matters, that surprises no one.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Seems like you're the one pimping Hamas lies all the time. Give it up. Just because you have associations with Palestinian Arabs doesn't give legitimacy to their claims.

Palestine had borders long before there was Hamas.

Indeed.

Trouble is, no Palestinian polity ever existed, to rule what lay within those borders.

Given their historical and present-day incompetency in such matters, that surprises no one.

It doesn't matter. Non self governing territories have the right to territorial integrity, i.e. the people have sovereignty over their borders.

 

[Indeependent]

It would appear from the events occurring since 1948 that God's favor is shining on Israel.
So let the Islamos start another military conflict and continue to give more land and prestige to the Jews.

 

[P F Tinmore]

It would appear from the events occurring since 1948 that God's favor is shining on Israel.
So let the Islamos start another military conflict and continue to give more land and prestige to the Jews.

The Palestinians have never lost any land.

 

[Billo_Really]

They have had that right since 1947 when the partition plan was passed by the UN. Now why haven't they negotiated those borders as outlined in 242 and 338. Care to show what the palestinians have actually negotiated in regards to peace and mutual borders

A population under the occupation of a foreign force, doesn't have to negotiate anything. Under international law, the only thing an "occupation" can do, is to end. You cannot hold onto land, seized in a war. You cannot negotiate for land, captured in a war. You cannot change the demographics of an area under occupation, by putting nationals of a foreign force, in the area occupied. This was codified in UN resolution 242, telling the foreign force, they must go.

(i) Withdrawal of Israel armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict​

It doesn't say they need to "negotiate" before they go, it say's they have to leave. Period.

For anyone to claim the UN said they could negotiate borders before leaving, is saying the UN is okay with taking land by force. Because any negotiation that gives Israel land prior to the '67 borders, goes against the entire spirit of the UN Charter and the very reason the UN was created in the first place. Which was also stated in 242.

Emphasizing the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war...

​

In summary, there is nothing to negotiate. Israel needs to leave. They need to get off land that isn't theirs and all their kiss-ass minions, need to stop playing these BS word games.

 

[Billo_Really]

It would appear from the events occurring since 1948 that God's favor is shining on Israel.
So let the Islamos start another military conflict and continue to give more land and prestige to the Jews.

God does not favor narcissistic assholes, who walk around thinking their shit don't stink!

Those are the ones God sends straight to hell!

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I have to chuckle here.

It would appear from the events occurring since 1948 that God's favor is shining on Israel.
So let the Islamos start another military conflict and continue to give more land and prestige to the Jews.

The Palestinians have never lost any land.

(COMMENT)

In regards to the post-conflict of 1967 --- and forward --- I have to agree.

Now, if we could only get that in some recognized form.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Kondor3]

It would appear from the events occurring since 1948 that God's favor is shining on Israel.
So let the Islamos start another military conflict and continue to give more land and prestige to the Jews.

The Palestinians have never lost any land.

That's not what your own propaganda maps say...

 

[Kondor3]

Palestine had borders long before there was Hamas.

Indeed.

Trouble is, no Palestinian polity ever existed, to rule what lay within those borders.

Given their historical and present-day incompetency in such matters, that surprises no one.

It doesn't matter. Non self governing territories have the right to territorial integrity, i.e. the people have sovereignty over their borders.

In the law books, yeah, maybe.

In the real world, only if they have the courage and muscle to make that happen.

Nature does not favor the Skeddadler.

 

[toastman]

It would appear from the events occurring since 1948 that God's favor is shining on Israel.
So let the Islamos start another military conflict and continue to give more land and prestige to the Jews.

The Palestinians have never lost any land.

After the 1948 Arab Israeli war, Israel has captured 50% of the land allotted to them in the partition plan. This land is now inside the green line, making it Israels land. Even the PA recognizes it as part of Israel.
So yea, the Palestinians did lose land. Lots of it too

 

[RoccoR]

Billo_Really; et al,

If the UNSC Resolution 242 (1967) for half a century ago, is all you have, you need to develop a better sense of humor.

A population under the occupation of a foreign force, doesn't have to negotiate anything. Under international law, the only thing an "occupation" can do, is to end. You cannot hold onto land, seized in a war. You cannot negotiate for land, captured in a war. You cannot change the demographics of an area under occupation, by putting nationals of a foreign force, in the area occupied. This was codified in UN resolution 242, telling the foreign force, they must go.

(i) Withdrawal of Israel armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict​

It doesn't say they need to "negotiate" before they go, it say's they have to leave. Period.

(COMMENT)

You forgot the (ii) in that quote:

1. Affirms that the fulfilment of Charter principles requires the establishment of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East which should include the application of both the following principles:

(i) Withdrawal of Israel armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict;

(ii) Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force;​

Since the time this Resolution was passed, there has been the 1973 Yom Kipper War, the two Intifada, Palestinian Independence, the Oslo Accords, two Peace Treaties, etc ...

Anyone that doesn't think these have a bearing and impact on the ground conditions is simply foolish.

For anyone to claim the UN said they could negotiate borders before leaving, is saying the UN is okay with taking land by force. Because any negotiation that gives Israel land prior to the '67 borders, goes against the entire spirit of the UN Charter and the very reason the UN was created in the first place. Which was also stated in 242.

(COMMENT)

For the Palestinian (any flavor) to raise the issue of the spirit behind the UN Charter as a justification, is simply ridiculous. The "spirit" of the Charter is "To maintain international peace and security, and to that end: to take effective collective measures for the prevention and removal of threats to the peace, and for the suppression of acts of aggression or other breaches of the peace, and to bring about by peaceful means." It has been, since 1948, a fact that the Arabs (almost all flavors) have used other than peaceful means as the instrument of dispute resolution. Just as they claimed then --- they claim now; "by all means necessary." The mantra of the Palestinian is: "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad."

In more than half a century, the Palestinians have not once renounced hostilities in favor of peace:

Gaza's Hamas authorities have blocked a UN refugee agency from introducing textbooks promoting human rights into local schools, saying it ignores Palestinian cultural mores and focuses too heavily on "peaceful" means of conflict resolution.

He said the textbooks, used in grades 7 through 9, did not sufficiently address Palestinian suffering and did not acknowledge the right to battle Israel. "There is a tremendous focus on the peaceful resistance as the only tool to achieve freedom and independence," he said.

Emphasizing the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war...

​

In summary, there is nothing to negotiate. Israel needs to leave. They need to get off land that isn't theirs and all their kiss-ass minions, need to stop playing these BS word games.

(COMMENT)

Our friend "Billo_Really" is correct. There is nothing to negotiate until the Palestinian is will to adhere to the "Spirit of the Charter" and "settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security, and justice, are not endangered;" renouncing armed struggle and "jihad."

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Phoenall]

Glad to see that the Palestinians have the authority to negotiate their borders.

They have had that right since 1947 when the partition plan was passed by the UN. Now why haven't they negotiated those borders as outlined in 242 and 338. Care to show what the palestinians have actually negotiated in regards to peace and mutual borders

The Palestinians rejected the proposed change in their international borders in 1947 and they had the right to do that.

There is no requirement for the Palestinians to negotiate any change in their borders.

Why didn't they start a war with Syria and Transjordan then when the change in the International borders were made to make these two Islamic nations. That was the end of palestines international borders as far as INTERNATIONAL LAW was concerned.

Unless you can produce the treaties made between the Palestinian government and the Syrian and Transjordan governments that negotiated the new International borders.

There is every need for the Palestinians to negotiate their borders, they signed to the UN charter and this means that the charter is binding on them. Plus they have only been a sovereign state since 1988, before this they had no legal entity, the treaty that defined the mandates borders expressly omitted Palestine from its details as the parties were not concerned with a handful of itinerant arab muslim vagabonds. read all the treaties you are fond of linking to and see were they say these are palestines international borders

 

[toastman]

They have had that right since 1947 when the partition plan was passed by the UN. Now why haven't they negotiated those borders as outlined in 242 and 338. Care to show what the palestinians have actually negotiated in regards to peace and mutual borders

A population under the occupation of a foreign force, doesn't have to negotiate anything. Under international law, the only thing an "occupation" can do, is to end. You cannot hold onto land, seized in a war. You cannot negotiate for land, captured in a war. You cannot change the demographics of an area under occupation, by putting nationals of a foreign force, in the area occupied. This was codified in UN resolution 242, telling the foreign force, they must go.

(i) Withdrawal of Israel armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict​

It doesn't say they need to "negotiate" before they go, it say's they have to leave. Period.

For anyone to claim the UN said they could negotiate borders before leaving, is saying the UN is okay with taking land by force. Because any negotiation that gives Israel land prior to the '67 borders, goes against the entire spirit of the UN Charter and the very reason the UN was created in the first place. Which was also stated in 242.

Emphasizing the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war...

​

In summary, there is nothing to negotiate. Israel needs to leave. They need to get off land that isn't theirs and all their kiss-ass minions, need to stop playing these BS word games.

'Israel needs to leave'

Of else what?? You're gonna ask Obama to send Marines to kick them out??


And as I've already said a million times, occupations don't end until there is a peace treaty between the belligerents involved. In others words, Israel is NOT MOVING ANYWHERE until there is a cessation if hostilities.

 

[Phoenall]

Glad to see that the Palestinians have the authority to negotiate their borders.

Palestine does not have any borders

I have proven many times that it does.

Why do you always come back pimping Israel's lies?

Actually you haven't, all you have proven is that you cant read English. The treaties you use as evidence omit the term Palestine deliberately, and this is explained in the authors explanation of the treaty. They had to define the areas that were to become Iraq, Syria, Lebanon and Transjordan so called them all Palestine so they did not upset the two Saudi arab princes that were to get Syria and Transjordan.

Now show from a non Islamic source were the present day Palestine has International borders that are in a treaty signed by the Palestinian leadership

 

[Phoenall]

I have proven many times that it does.

Why do you always come back pimping Israel's lies?

Seems like you're the one pimping Hamas lies all the time. Give it up. Just because you have associations with Palestinian Arabs doesn't give legitimacy to their claims.

Palestine had borders long before there was Hamas.

Only for about a year and then the arab muslims deleted them when they took over Syria and Transjordan

 

[Phoenall]

Israel established agreeable borders with both Egypt & Jordan. Who did the Palestinians ever establish agreeable borders with?

Israel negotiated Palestinian borders with Egypt and Jordan?

Where did any of them get the authority to do that?

From the International acceptance of Israel and Jordan as nations and their showing of self determination and ability to stand on their own. The Palestinians are still unable to show they have any self determination or are capable of standing on their own feet.
You forget that Palestine has only been recognised as a nation since 1988, before this they were stateless people.