Who Are The Palestinains?

[Phoenall]

Israel established agreeable borders with both Egypt & Jordan.

Borders don't mean shit to Israel.

They are constantly violating the air space of sovereign nations, attacking vessels in international waters and are presently trying to annex land (they have no clear title to) by force.

Who did the Palestinians ever establish agreeable borders with?

The ones they've been living in for the past 2000 years.

Another moron that thinks the arab muslims have been around for 2000 years. Under the ottomans Palestine was devoid of arab muslims as the land was too hard for them to work.
By the way have you read the Geneva conventions yet, when you do try reading the Maritime regulations to see who can stop a vessel suspected of smuggling contraband on the high seas.

A clue is in the fact that the USA does it in waters thousands of miles away from America to help in the control of drug smuggling and gun running.

 

[Phoenall]

Palestine had borders long before there was Hamas.

Indeed.

Trouble is, no Palestinian polity ever existed, to rule what lay within those borders.

Given their historical and present-day incompetency in such matters, that surprises no one.

It doesn't matter. Non self governing territories have the right to territorial integrity, i.e. the people have sovereignty over their borders.

Does that include the 500,000 Jews that lived in Palestine, did they have sovereignty over their borders as well. Or are you once again going to deny the Jews the same rights you uphold illegally for the arab muslim illegal migrants to Palestine. The Jews had a form of government in Palestine before the arab muslims knew that they had been offered the chance to buy land by the Ottomans. That fact alone negates the arab muslim illegal immigrants claim to the land as it was in Jewish ownership. Your Palestinians can not take that land away from the Jews without giving compensation and reparation

 

[Phoenall]

It would appear from the events occurring since 1948 that God's favor is shining on Israel.
So let the Islamos start another military conflict and continue to give more land and prestige to the Jews.

The Palestinians have never lost any land.

They lost Syria, Iraq, Transjordan and Israel to International treaty that they were never invited to be signatories to. Even the arab muslims ignored their false claims as just so much pie in the sky when it came to signing their alleged land away from them.

So do you want to show were they still own those portions of Palestine that are now sovereign nations ?

 

[Phoenall]

They have had that right since 1947 when the partition plan was passed by the UN. Now why haven't they negotiated those borders as outlined in 242 and 338. Care to show what the palestinians have actually negotiated in regards to peace and mutual borders

A population under the occupation of a foreign force, doesn't have to negotiate anything. Under international law, the only thing an "occupation" can do, is to end. You cannot hold onto land, seized in a war. You cannot negotiate for land, captured in a war. You cannot change the demographics of an area under occupation, by putting nationals of a foreign force, in the area occupied. This was codified in UN resolution 242, telling the foreign force, they must go.

(i) Withdrawal of Israel armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict​

It doesn't say they need to "negotiate" before they go, it say's they have to leave. Period.

For anyone to claim the UN said they could negotiate borders before leaving, is saying the UN is okay with taking land by force. Because any negotiation that gives Israel land prior to the '67 borders, goes against the entire spirit of the UN Charter and the very reason the UN was created in the first place. Which was also stated in 242.

Emphasizing the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war...

​

In summary, there is nothing to negotiate. Israel needs to leave. They need to get off land that isn't theirs and all their kiss-ass minions, need to stop playing these BS word games.

1) they were not under occupation from 1948 to 1994 when Jordan negotiated borders with Israel, so why didn't they negotiate at the same time as Jordan. After all Jordan had annexed the west bank in 1949 and were the sovereign nation until 1994. And to lift the occupation they either need to show they are no longer engaging in belligerence for a period of 12 months or negotiate a settlement with the occupying power. It is all in the Geneva conventions


2) 242 also states that Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force

Also it does not say from all territories if you look, and the authors stipulated that mutual borders must be negotiated. The resolution also calls for the implementation of the "land for peace" formula, calling for Israeli withdrawal from "territories" it had occupied in 1967 in exchange for peace with its neighbors.[21] This was an important advance at the time, considering that there were no peace treaties between any Arab state and Israel until the Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty of 1979. "Land for peace" served as the basis of the Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty, in which Israel withdrew from the Sinai peninsula


3) Which is where the mutually agreed borders come into play. Israel does not need to leave the occupied territory until the Palestinians abide by the principles of un 242 and 338
The Security Council subsequently adopted resolution 1515 (2003), which recalled resolution 242 and endorsed the Middle East Quartet’s Road Map towards a permanent, two-State solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The Quartet Plan calls for direct, bilateral negotiations as part of a comprehensive resolution of the Arab-Israeli conflict, on the basis of UN Security Council Resolutions 242, 338, 1397, 1515, 1850, and the Madrid principles. The Quartet has reiterated that the only viable solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is an agreement that ends the occupation that began in 1967; resolves all permanent status issues as previously defined by the parties; and fulfils the aspirations of both parties for independent homelands through two states for two peoples, Israel and an independent, contiguous and viable state of Palestine, living side by side in peace and security


United Nations Security Council Resolution 242 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Phoenall]

It would appear from the events occurring since 1948 that God's favor is shining on Israel.
So let the Islamos start another military conflict and continue to give more land and prestige to the Jews.

God does not favor narcissistic assholes, who walk around thinking their shit don't stink!

Those are the ones God sends straight to hell!

Is that were you are posting from...................

 

[MJB12741]

The Palestinians sure blew it in rejecting UN 181 thus making the resolution unbinding. Bye bye Palestinian State alongside with Israel.

 

[Indeependent]

It would appear from the events occurring since 1948 that God's favor is shining on Israel.
So let the Islamos start another military conflict and continue to give more land and prestige to the Jews.

The Palestinians have never lost any land.

They lost Syria, Iraq, Transjordan and Israel to International treaty that they were never invited to be signatories to. Even the arab muslims ignored their false claims as just so much pie in the sky when it came to signing their alleged land away from them.

So do you want to show were they still own those portions of Palestine that are now sovereign nations ?

You know full well that TinHead only accepts Legislation approved by 100% of the affected populace.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The Palestinians have never lost any land.

They lost Syria, Iraq, Transjordan and Israel to International treaty that they were never invited to be signatories to. Even the arab muslims ignored their false claims as just so much pie in the sky when it came to signing their alleged land away from them.

So do you want to show were they still own those portions of Palestine that are now sovereign nations ?

You know full well that TinHead only accepts Legislation approved by 100% of the affected populace.

The people, even in non self governing territories, have the right:

• To self determination without external interference.

• To independence and sovereignty.

• To territorial integrity.

I merely reiterate international law.

What do you have?

 

[Indeependent]

They lost Syria, Iraq, Transjordan and Israel to International treaty that they were never invited to be signatories to. Even the arab muslims ignored their false claims as just so much pie in the sky when it came to signing their alleged land away from them.

So do you want to show were they still own those portions of Palestine that are now sovereign nations ?

You know full well that TinHead only accepts Legislation approved by 100% of the affected populace.

The people, even in non self governing territories, have the right:

• To self determination without external interference.

• To independence and sovereignty.

• To territorial integrity.

I merely reiterate international law.

What do you have?

I reside in a nation where I vote for a Representative.
In fact, most nations have that.
You, however, insist that each and every West Bank Jordanian gets to vote rather than having a duly elected Representative.
I say that if they haven't made either system work since 1948 they lose.

 

[P F Tinmore]

You know full well that TinHead only accepts Legislation approved by 100% of the affected populace.

The people, even in non self governing territories, have the right:

• To self determination without external interference.

• To independence and sovereignty.

• To territorial integrity.

I merely reiterate international law.

What do you have?

I reside in a nation where I vote for a Representative.
In fact, most nations have that.
You, however, insist that each and every West Bank Jordanian gets to vote rather than having a duly elected Representative.
I say that if they haven't made either system work since 1948 they lose.

WTF You are not making any sense.

 

[toastman]

They lost Syria, Iraq, Transjordan and Israel to International treaty that they were never invited to be signatories to. Even the arab muslims ignored their false claims as just so much pie in the sky when it came to signing their alleged land away from them.

So do you want to show were they still own those portions of Palestine that are now sovereign nations ?

You know full well that TinHead only accepts Legislation approved by 100% of the affected populace.

The people, even in non self governing territories, have the right:

• To self determination without external interference.

• To independence and sovereignty.

• To territorial integrity.

I merely reiterate international law.

What do you have?

What you 'have', has absolutely NOTHING to do with the discussion.

You keep bringing those points up as if they mean something.

 

[P F Tinmore]

You know full well that TinHead only accepts Legislation approved by 100% of the affected populace.

The people, even in non self governing territories, have the right:

• To self determination without external interference.

• To independence and sovereignty.

• To territorial integrity.

I merely reiterate international law.

What do you have?

What you 'have', has absolutely NOTHING to do with the discussion.

You keep bringing those points up as if they mean something.

How are my points irrelevant to the discussion?

 

[Indeependent]

The people, even in non self governing territories, have the right:

• To self determination without external interference.

• To independence and sovereignty.

• To territorial integrity.

I merely reiterate international law.

What do you have?

I reside in a nation where I vote for a Representative.
In fact, most nations have that.
You, however, insist that each and every West Bank Jordanian gets to vote rather than having a duly elected Representative.
I say that if they haven't made either system work since 1948 they lose.

WTF You are not making any sense.

Why am I not making sense?
Every time a poster brings up any timely International Agreement that proves the West Bank Jordanians Representatives or Gaza Representatives are a bunch of Bozos, you cry, "But those Moslem Representatives didn't ask EACH AND EVERY ARAB THEY REPRESENT!".

Are you suffering from dementia?

 

[P F Tinmore]

I reside in a nation where I vote for a Representative.
In fact, most nations have that.
You, however, insist that each and every West Bank Jordanian gets to vote rather than having a duly elected Representative.
I say that if they haven't made either system work since 1948 they lose.

WTF You are not making any sense.

Why am I not making sense?
Every time a poster brings up any timely International Agreement that proves the West Bank Jordanians Representatives or Gaza Representatives are a bunch of Bozos, you cry, "But those Moslem Representatives didn't ask EACH AND EVERY ARAB THEY REPRESENT!".

Are you suffering from dementia?

By bozos, do mean unarmed civilians under military boot?

 

[Kondor3]

WTF You are not making any sense.

Why am I not making sense?
Every time a poster brings up any timely International Agreement that proves the West Bank Jordanians Representatives or Gaza Representatives are a bunch of Bozos, you cry, "But those Moslem Representatives didn't ask EACH AND EVERY ARAB THEY REPRESENT!".

Are you suffering from dementia?

By bozos, do mean unarmed civilians under military boot?

Exactly.

The unarmed civilians whose armed Fathers and Grandfathers threw down their rifles and participated in the Great Palestinian Arab Skeddadle of 1948.

Think those dumb-asses have figured out yet after 66 years that they screwed up?

Doubt it.

-----------------

Sign in a Cairo arms-market, late 1949...

"For Sale:

50,000 British Enfields

Newly retooled for our brave Palestinian fighting brothers.

Like-new mint condition.

Never fired, and only dropped once.

Lot prices available.

Ask for Achmed.

Tell 'em Mahmoud sent you."

 

[P F Tinmore]

Why am I not making sense?
Every time a poster brings up any timely International Agreement that proves the West Bank Jordanians Representatives or Gaza Representatives are a bunch of Bozos, you cry, "But those Moslem Representatives didn't ask EACH AND EVERY ARAB THEY REPRESENT!".

Are you suffering from dementia?

By bozos, do mean unarmed civilians under military boot?

Exactly.

The unarmed civilians whose armed Fathers and Grandfathers threw down their rifles and participated in the Great Palestinian Arab Skeddadle of 1948.

-----------------

Sign in a Cairo arms-market, late 1949...

"For Sale: 50,000 British Enfields, newly minted for our brave Palestinian fighting brothers. Like-new mint condition. Never fired, and only dropped once."

Do you mean all those unarmed farmers and store owners driven out of their homes at the point of mooched guns?

 

[Indeependent]

WTF You are not making any sense.

Why am I not making sense?
Every time a poster brings up any timely International Agreement that proves the West Bank Jordanians Representatives or Gaza Representatives are a bunch of Bozos, you cry, "But those Moslem Representatives didn't ask EACH AND EVERY ARAB THEY REPRESENT!".

Are you suffering from dementia?

By bozos, do mean unarmed civilians under military boot?

As I have already stated a mere few postings ago, if the WBJs and the Gazans can't get their act together, they lose.
And yes, from a humanistic point of view, it's a tragedy.
But asking the rest of the world to put up with their terrorism because of their plight is even more inhumane.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Why am I not making sense?
Every time a poster brings up any timely International Agreement that proves the West Bank Jordanians Representatives or Gaza Representatives are a bunch of Bozos, you cry, "But those Moslem Representatives didn't ask EACH AND EVERY ARAB THEY REPRESENT!".

Are you suffering from dementia?

By bozos, do mean unarmed civilians under military boot?

As I have already stated a mere few postings ago, if the WBJs and the Gazans can't get their act together, they lose.
And yes, from a humanistic point of view, it's a tragedy.
But asking the rest of the world to put up with their terrorism because of their plight is even more inhumane.

Palestine was born under illegal foreign military occupation that remains today.

They have no choice about anything.

You are playing the terrorist card. That is scraping the bottom of the barrel.

 

[Kondor3]

The people, even in non self governing territories, have the right:

• To self determination without external interference.

• To independence and sovereignty.

• To territorial integrity.

I merely reiterate international law.

What do you have?

I reside in a nation where I vote for a Representative.
In fact, most nations have that.
You, however, insist that each and every West Bank Jordanian gets to vote rather than having a duly elected Representative.
I say that if they haven't made either system work since 1948 they lose.

WTF You are not making any sense.

No.

He's making perfect sense.

You know it as well as I do.

But I will wordsmith the key element.

"Every time that a poster serves-up an 'authority' of some kind purports to sign or agree to something on behalf of the Palestinian people, you come back and say that that person or group or polity is not empowered to do so, and that the Palestinian people were not asked - even though a clear representative agency relationship existed in a variety of circumstances, despite all revisionism and latter-day self-serving and disingenuous protestations to the contrary."

This sort of throwing-up of the hands and dismissing many of your claims is what you get for bleating that response, over and over again, across the months here, so that your colleagues get frustrated with you, when they serve-up legitimate representation involved in Treaty or Agreement A or B or C, and you poo-poo the idea, because it does not suit your agenda, nor that of your radical and intransigent mad-dog Hamas handlers.

 

[Kondor3]

By bozos, do mean unarmed civilians under military boot?

As I have already stated a mere few postings ago, if the WBJs and the Gazans can't get their act together, they lose.
And yes, from a humanistic point of view, it's a tragedy.
But asking the rest of the world to put up with their terrorism because of their plight is even more inhumane.

Palestine was born under illegal foreign military occupation that remains today.

They have no choice about anything.

You are playing the terrorist card. That is scraping the bottom of the barrel.

I doubt that's true.

But if it IS true, they learned it from the best.

You guys.

And your bottom-feeding scumbag Hamas miscreants.