Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2

[JoelT1]

Why is it so hard for people to grant rights to other people? Is it personally threatening? Does granting rights of self determination, dignity and being recognized as a people mean you have less rights for you and yours? Is it a zero sum game?

Um, Arabs have 22 countries; Muslims have 57 countries More than enough, uh, self determination

So?

How many do Europeans have?
How many do Christians have?

Again...does this personally threaten you?

Um, Europeans are not an ethnic group You didn’t know this? And there are no Christian theocracies as there are Islamic theocracies.

Europeans cultures are as similar to each other ethnically as various Arab cultures are.

If you are talking about THEOCRACIES...you do not have 57 Muslim theocracies. You have one I believe.

You need to decide on your terms.

Absolutely no ethnic differences among Saudi Arabs, Egyptian Arabs, Syrian Arabs etc

But you actually thought Europeans are one ethnicity

 

[JoelT1]

Why is it so hard for people to grant rights to other people? Is it personally threatening? Does granting rights of self determination, dignity and being recognized as a people mean you have less rights for you and yours? Is it a zero sum game?

Um, Arabs have 22 countries; Muslims have 57 countries More than enough, uh, self determination

So?

How many do Europeans have?
How many do Christians have?

Again...does this personally threaten you?

Um, Europeans are not an ethnic group You didn’t know this? And there are no Christian theocracies as there are Islamic theocracies.

Europeans cultures are as similar to each other ethnically as various Arab cultures are.

If you are talking about THEOCRACIES...you do not have 57 Muslim theocracies. You have one I believe.

You need to decide on your terms.

Most Islamic countries are based on Islamic law, making most theocracies. Iran, Saudi Arabia are among them

 

[P F Tinmore]

Why is it so hard for people to grant rights to other people? Is it personally threatening? Does granting rights of self determination, dignity and being recognized as a people mean you have less rights for you and yours? Is it a zero sum game?

Um, Arabs have 22 countries; Muslims have 57 countries More than enough, uh, self determination

So?

How many do Europeans have?
How many do Christians have?

Again...does this personally threaten you?

Um, Europeans are not an ethnic group You didn’t know this? And there are no Christian theocracies as there are Islamic theocracies.

Europeans cultures are as similar to each other ethnically as various Arab cultures are.

If you are talking about THEOCRACIES...you do not have 57 Muslim theocracies. You have one I believe.

You need to decide on your terms.

Absolutely no ethnic differences among Saudi Arabs, Egyptian Arabs, Syrian Arabs etc

But you actually thought Europeans are one ethnicity

What difference does it make?

 

[Coyote]

Why is it so hard for people to grant rights to other people? Is it personally threatening? Does granting rights of self determination, dignity and being recognized as a people mean you have less rights for you and yours? Is it a zero sum game?

Um, Arabs have 22 countries; Muslims have 57 countries More than enough, uh, self determination

So?

How many do Europeans have?
How many do Christians have?

Again...does this personally threaten you?

Um, Europeans are not an ethnic group You didn’t know this? And there are no Christian theocracies as there are Islamic theocracies.

Europeans cultures are as similar to each other ethnically as various Arab cultures are.

If you are talking about THEOCRACIES...you do not have 57 Muslim theocracies. You have one I believe.

You need to decide on your terms.

Absolutely no ethnic differences among Saudi Arabs, Egyptian Arabs, Syrian Arabs etc

But you actually thought Europeans are one ethnicity

You might find that the Egyptians and the Saudi's quite disagree with you...kind of like the Germans and French....or the Irish and English....

 

[Coyote]

Why is it so hard for people to grant rights to other people? Is it personally threatening? Does granting rights of self determination, dignity and being recognized as a people mean you have less rights for you and yours? Is it a zero sum game?

Um, Arabs have 22 countries; Muslims have 57 countries More than enough, uh, self determination

So?

How many do Europeans have?
How many do Christians have?

Again...does this personally threaten you?

Um, Europeans are not an ethnic group You didn’t know this? And there are no Christian theocracies as there are Islamic theocracies.

Europeans cultures are as similar to each other ethnically as various Arab cultures are.

If you are talking about THEOCRACIES...you do not have 57 Muslim theocracies. You have one I believe.

You need to decide on your terms.

Most Islamic countries are based on Islamic law, making most theocracies. Iran, Saudi Arabia are among them

You need to read up on what a theocracy is. Saudi is a MONARCHY. I believe Iran is the closest to a theocracy so I'll give you points for that. Religion influencing government - while DISTASTFUL is not a theocracy.

 

[Coyote]

Why is it so hard for people to grant rights to other people? Is it personally threatening? Does granting rights of self determination, dignity and being recognized as a people mean you have less rights for you and yours? Is it a zero sum game?

Um, Arabs have 22 countries; Muslims have 57 countries More than enough, uh, self determination

So?

How many do Europeans have?
How many do Christians have?

Again...does this personally threaten you?

Um, Europeans are not an ethnic group You didn’t know this? And there are no Christian theocracies as there are Islamic theocracies.

Europeans cultures are as similar to each other ethnically as various Arab cultures are.

If you are talking about THEOCRACIES...you do not have 57 Muslim theocracies. You have one I believe.

You need to decide on your terms.

Absolutely no ethnic differences among Saudi Arabs, Egyptian Arabs, Syrian Arabs etc

But you actually thought Europeans are one ethnicity

Wrong. I think Europe and Mid East/North Africa are multiple ethnic groups. Try to keep up.

 

[Coyote]

1 An european power occupied militarily a region in the Middle East, taking away by the force of arms the right of the native inhabitants to maintain their society and ethnic composition.

This European empire occupied the region with the help of an Arab Hashemite king from Mecca.
Arabs in Palestine supported him and his campaign of expanding his rule into Palestine.
A new wave of Arab pogroms against the Jews in Palestine follows. This is 1916-1921.

If You look 50-60 years prior to that, You see other such waves occurring all over Syria-Palestine.
Then look another 50 years prior to that, what do You see? Arab pogroms against Jews, with expulsions, rape and all kinds of disneyland.

When You talk about Palestinians, don't forget You talk about Jews too, and their condition in Palestine among the Arab majority. Especially in light of what You call a "right to maintain a society and ethnic composition". And I should mention that "ethnic composition" sounds much worse than "maintain society".

Q. Tell me, how did You think Jews become a minority and Arabs the majority in Palestine?

1 An european power occupied militarily a region in the Middle East, taking away by the force of arms the right of the native inhabitants to maintain their society and ethnic composition.

This European empire occupied the region with the help of an Arab Hashemite king from Mecca.
Arabs in Palestine supported him and his campaign of expanding his rule into Palestine.
A new wave of Arab pogroms against the Jews in Palestine follows. This is 1916-1921.

If You look 50-60 years prior to that, You see other such waves occurring all over Syria-Palestine.
Then look another 50 years prior to that, what do You see? Arab pogroms against Jews, with expulsions, rape and all kinds of disneyland.

When You talk about Palestinians, don't forget You talk about Jews too, and their condition in Palestine among the Arab majority. Especially in light of what You call a "right to maintain a society and ethnic composition". And I should mention that "ethnic composition" sounds much worse than "maintain society".

Q. Tell me, how did You think Jews become a minority and Arabs the majority in Palestine?

Jews were a thriving population in Arabia, until the advent of Islam and Muslims mass-slaughtering them and ethnically cleansing Arabia of Jews

Maimonides’ letter to Yemenite Jews poignantly describes Arabs unrelenting persecution of Jews

Actually I don't think the Arabs "mass slaughtered" them or "ethnically cleansed" them until way late, when the fighting over Israel's formation occurred when the Arab states got their knickers in a knot and expelled Jews. Sure there were wars but historically - there were large periods of peaceful coexistence and even flourishing. Certainly not ethnic cleansing since ancient Jewish communities existed until relatively recently.

 

[P F Tinmore]

 

[JoelT1]

Um, Arabs have 22 countries; Muslims have 57 countries More than enough, uh, self determination

So?

How many do Europeans have?
How many do Christians have?

Again...does this personally threaten you?

Um, Europeans are not an ethnic group You didn’t know this? And there are no Christian theocracies as there are Islamic theocracies.

Europeans cultures are as similar to each other ethnically as various Arab cultures are.

If you are talking about THEOCRACIES...you do not have 57 Muslim theocracies. You have one I believe.

You need to decide on your terms.

Absolutely no ethnic differences among Saudi Arabs, Egyptian Arabs, Syrian Arabs etc

But you actually thought Europeans are one ethnicity

Wrong. I think Europe and Mid East/North Africa are multiple ethnic groups. Try to keep up.

You thought Europeans were an ethnic group. Wrong. And you thought Arabs consisted of different ethnic groups. Wrong, again.

You have a perfect record: Always wrong!

 

[Coyote]

So?

How many do Europeans have?
How many do Christians have?

Again...does this personally threaten you?

Um, Europeans are not an ethnic group You didn’t know this? And there are no Christian theocracies as there are Islamic theocracies.

Europeans cultures are as similar to each other ethnically as various Arab cultures are.

If you are talking about THEOCRACIES...you do not have 57 Muslim theocracies. You have one I believe.

You need to decide on your terms.

Absolutely no ethnic differences among Saudi Arabs, Egyptian Arabs, Syrian Arabs etc

But you actually thought Europeans are one ethnicity

Wrong. I think Europe and Mid East/North Africa are multiple ethnic groups. Try to keep up.

You thought Europeans were an ethnic group. Wrong. And you thought Arabs consisted of different ethnic groups. Wrong, again.

You have a perfect record: Always wrong!

You seem to lack reading comprehension skills or perhaps you don't understand using examples and sarcasm.
Multiple ethnicities that share common religious cultures. Easy peasy.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Noel Kharman

 

[JoelT1]

Um, Arabs have 22 countries; Muslims have 57 countries More than enough, uh, self determination

So?

How many do Europeans have?
How many do Christians have?

Again...does this personally threaten you?

Um, Europeans are not an ethnic group You didn’t know this? And there are no Christian theocracies as there are Islamic theocracies.

Europeans cultures are as similar to each other ethnically as various Arab cultures are.

If you are talking about THEOCRACIES...you do not have 57 Muslim theocracies. You have one I believe.

You need to decide on your terms.

Most Islamic countries are based on Islamic law, making most theocracies. Iran, Saudi Arabia are among them

You need to read up on what a theocracy is. Saudi is a MONARCHY. I believe Iran is the closest to a theocracy so I'll give you points for that. Religion influencing government - while DISTASTFUL is not a theocracy.

Um, the Arabia part of Saudi Arabia was the birthplace of Islam; Saudi Arabia is governed by Islamic law. Saudi Arabia is a theocracy Read, learn Countries With A Theocratic Government Today

 

[Coyote]

So?

How many do Europeans have?
How many do Christians have?

Again...does this personally threaten you?

Um, Europeans are not an ethnic group You didn’t know this? And there are no Christian theocracies as there are Islamic theocracies.

Europeans cultures are as similar to each other ethnically as various Arab cultures are.

If you are talking about THEOCRACIES...you do not have 57 Muslim theocracies. You have one I believe.

You need to decide on your terms.

Most Islamic countries are based on Islamic law, making most theocracies. Iran, Saudi Arabia are among them

You need to read up on what a theocracy is. Saudi is a MONARCHY. I believe Iran is the closest to a theocracy so I'll give you points for that. Religion influencing government - while DISTASTFUL is not a theocracy.

Um, the Arabia part of Saudi Arabia was the birthplace of Islam; Saudi Arabia is governed by Islamic law. Saudi Arabia is a theocracy Read, learn Countries With A Theocratic Government Today

I don't think you understand what a "theocracy" is...but, ok...so you have six of seven governments with theocratic monarchies or theocratic democracies, and one that is Christian.

Six is not 57.

 

[P F Tinmore]

 

[P F Tinmore]

Role of Hamas in Middle East Peace Process

Role Hamas Middle East Peace Process, Apr 11 2008 | C-SPAN.org

 

[Coyote]

I Come from There - Poem by Mahmoud Darwish

I come from there and I have memories
Born as mortals are, I have a mother
And a house with many windows,
I have brothers, friends,
And a prison cell with a cold window.
Mine is the wave, snatched by sea-gulls,
I have my own view,
And an extra blade of grass.
Mine is the moon at the far edge of the words,
And the bounty of birds,
And the immortal olive tree.
I walked this land before the swords
Turned its living body into a laden table.
I come from there. I render the sky unto her mother
When the sky weeps for her mother
And I weep to make myself known
To a returning cloud.
I learnt all the words worthy of the court of blood
So that I could break the rule.
I learnt all the words and broke them up
To make a single word: Homeland.....

Mahmoud Darwish

 

[Coyote]

He Is Quiet And So Am I

He's quiet and so am I.
He asks the waiter something.
I ask the waiter something…
A black cat walks between us.
I feel the midnight of its fur
and he feels the midnight of its fur…
I don't say to him: The sky today
is clear and blue.
He doesn't say to me: The sky today is clear.
He's watched and the one watching
and I'm watched and the one watching.
I move my left foot.
He moves his right foot.
I hum the melody of a song
and he hums the melody of a similar song. I wonder: Is he the mirror in which I see myself?
And turn to look in his eyes…but I don't see him.
I hurry from the café.
I think: Maybe he's a killer…
or maybe a passerby who thinks
I am a killer.
He's afraid…and so am I.

Mahmoud Darwish

 

[Coyote]

Mahmoud Darwish

Mahmoud Darwish (Arabic: محمود درويش‎) (13 March 1941 – 9 August 2008) was a Palestinian poet and author who won numerous awards for his literary output and was regarded as the Palestinian national poet. In his work, Palestine became a metaphor for the loss of Eden, birth and resurrection, and the anguish of dispossession and exile. He has been described as incarnating and reflecting "the tradition of the political poet in Islam, the man of action whose action is poetry".

Mahmoud Darwish was born in the village of al-Birwa in the Western Galilee. He was the second child of Salim and Houreyyah Darwish. His family were landowners. His mother was illiterate, but his grandfather taught him to read. After Israeli forces assaulted his village of al-Birwa in June 1948 the family fled to Lebanon, first to Jezzin and then Damour. The village was then razed and destroyed by the Israeli army to prevent its inhabitants from returning to their homes inside the new Jewish state. A year later, Darwish's family returned to the Acre area, which was now part of Israel, and settled in Deir al-Asad. Darwish attended high school in Kafr Yasif, two kilometers north of Jadeidi. He eventually moved to Haifa.

He published his first book of poetry, Asafir bila ajniha or Wingless Birds, at the age of nineteen. He initially published his poems in Al Jadid, the literary periodical of the Israeli Communist Party, eventually becoming its editor. Later, he was Assistant Editor of Al Fajr, a literary periodical published by the Israeli Workers Party (Mapam). Darwish was impressed by the Arab poets Abed al-Wahab al Bayati and Bader Shaker al-Sayab.
Darwish left Israel in 1970 to study in the USSR. He attended the University of Moscow for one year, before moving to Egypt and Lebanon. When he joined the PLO in 1973, he was banned from reentering Israel. In 1995, he returned to attend the funeral of his colleague, Emile Habibi and received a permit to remain in Haifa for four days. Darwish was allowed to settle in Ramallah in 1995, although he said he felt he was living in exile there, and did not consider the West Bank his "private homeland."

Darwish was twice married and divorced. His first wife was the writer Rana Kabbani. In the mid-1980s, he married an Egyptian translator, Hayat Heeni. He had no children. Darwish had a history of heart disease, suffering a heart attack in 1984, followed by two heart operations, in 1984 and 1998.

His final visit to Israel was on 15 July 2007, to attend a poetry recital at Mt. Carmel Auditorium in Haifa, in which he criticized the factional violence between Fatah and Hamas as a "suicide attempt in the streets".
Darwish published over thirty volumes of poetry and eight books of prose. He was editor of Al-Jadid, Al-Fajr, Shu'un Filistiniyya and Al-Karmel (1981). On 1 May 1965 when the young Darwish read his poem “Bitaqat huwiyya” to a crowd in a Nazareth movie house, there was a tumultuous reaction. Within days the poem had spread throughout the country and the Arab world. Published in his second volume "Leaves of Olives" (Haifa 1964), the six stanzas of the poem repeat the cry “Write down: I am an Arab.”
In the 1970s, “Darwish, as a Palestinian poet of the Resistance committed himself to the . . . objective of nurturing the vision of defeat and disaster (after the June War of 1967), so much so that it would ‘gnaw at the hearts’ of the forthcoming generations.”

Palestinian poetry often addresses the Nakba and the resultant tragedies. The mid 1980s saw the Israeli invasion of Lebanon in 1982 and preceded the outbreak of the first Intifada (uprising) on the West Bank and Gaza Strip in December 1987. Mahmoud Darwish addressed these and other issues in Ward aqall [Fewer Roses] (1986), and more specifically in one poem, “Sa-ya’ti barabira akharun” [Other Barbarians Will Come”].

Darwish's work won numerous awards, and has been published in 20 languages. A central theme in Darwish's poetry is the concept of watan or homeland. The poet Naomi Shihab Nye wrote that Darwish "is the essential breath of the Palestinian people, the eloquent witness of exile and belonging...."

 

[P F Tinmore]

Shadia Mansour ~ "On this earth is what makes life worth living" by Mahmoud Darwish

 

[P F Tinmore]