Who are the real bigots?

[Immanuel]

Bigotry comes in all shapes and sizes. It comes from all political and sociological aspects.

Look in the mirror. You will probably see a bigot, because quite frankly, bigotry is human nature. Some can and do control it within them, but we all have our prejudices.

When I was reading this post by drsmith:

big·ot
One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.
bigot - definition of bigot by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

big·ot
: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially: one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance
Bigot - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

I guess it all depends upon what you choose as your definition of the word now doesn't it? It seems to me based on these other defitions that bigot applies quite well.

Now are you going "to dismiss everyone who disagrees with their (your) views" as you "suggest that everyone who thinks that the bigots are the people that vote against same sex marriage are small minded" as you stated in your post?

Funny how it's wrong to dismiss the "bigots" even as you dismiss others because they disagree with you.

I could not but help to think that the second definition he presented fits him to a "T". There are others on the board who are "obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices", but he most definitely fits the definition IMHO.

drsmith, when was the last time your position "evolved"? Have you ever met a conservative you liked? Do you think there is any possibility that you might some day in your life? Are you going to dismiss everyone who disagrees with your views as you seem to have done in the past? I'm willing to admit that I may be wrong about you. Are you willing to "evolve"?

Before you ask, I can tell you without any hesitation that my views have "evolved" in many areas. Abortion... I used to think that everyone who was pro-choice were thrilled to death at the thought of 4,000 babies dying every day. Now, I realize, the vast majority of them are just as sickened by that idea as I am, but don't want government to interfere in our lives. Gay Marriage... used to believe that marriage was a union between one man and one woman (still do that) and that the homosexuals could go screw themselves if they thought they were going to destroy the sanctity of marriage. Now, I realize that homosexuals are discriminated in many ways, that they are entitled to the same rights and privileges as citizens of the United States as I am and that the government has no right being involved in the rites of the church. Therefore, the government needs to establish civil union laws and all "marriages" need to be established under civil union contracts. Churches should be free to marry whomever they want, but a "marriage" should not be given any special priviliges by the state. Those are two areas. There are others, but I am still not willing to claim that I am not a bigot. I have my prejudices just like everyone else.

So, how, many of you are willing to be open minded and change your long held beliefs or are you willing to look yourself in the mirror and admit that you are a bigot?

Immie

You make some good points. Not sure if DrS should be the target of your wrath, but then again, he hasn't posted enough that I've read to decide.

I actually know two people that I consider conservatives that changed their minds on the gay rights issue from discussions on messagesboards. It is very gratifying to see someone have an epiphany.

And in case you don't think I've ever changed my mind, I did. About the 2nd amendment. And I even learned to not blame Dubya for all the woes in the world.

drsmith and I don't get along. I offended him once by thanking people in a thread. He claimed I thanked them for being nasty to others and I don't recall it having been that way.

I don't believe that I have ever seen him post a polite comment to a conservative. I'd simply like to see him and others on this board admit that we are all guilty of those very offenses.

Immie

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Interesting that the person who likes to pretend she is open minded can't even address the actual subject.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The gentleman from Georgia who suggested legislation ending the sanctions of the Civil Rights Act is a bigot.

Those who support him are bigots.

Those who call the supporters of an equal America bigots are the real bigots.

Bigots on this board will always be hit metaphorically in the face as hard as possible.

On the other hand, I could easily argue that anyone who thinks the government needs to sanction people for what happened decades ago is, at best, small minded. My experience is it makes little or no sense to punish children for something their grandparents did.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

big·ot
One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.
bigot - definition of bigot by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

big·ot
: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially: one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance
Bigot - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

I guess it all depends upon what you choose as your definition of the word now doesn't it? It seems to me based on these other defitions that bigot applies quite well.

Now are you going "to dismiss everyone who disagrees with their (your) views" as you "suggest that everyone who thinks that the bigots are the people that vote against same sex marriage are small minded" as you stated in your post?

Funny how it's wrong to dismiss the "bigots" even as you dismiss others because they disagree with you.

Of course it does, to you, since applying the one I use would make you the bigot, and you find that utterly intolerable.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It has long been common knowledge that much discrimination is based on ignorance.

It has long been common knowledge that much discrimination is based on fear. The problem with common knowledge is that is commonly wrong.

Which is a very good reason why civil rights are often decided by government and not by marjority vote.

Congratulations on making the most absurd possible defense of government by majority rule.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It has long been common knowledge that much discrimination is based on fear. The problem with common knowledge is that is commonly wrong.

Ain't that the truth.

Isn't "common knowledge" usually what rightwingers use to defend the stupid things that they say?? LOL I hear it all the time. A stupid claim is made and then to defend said stupid claim the poster argues that if you don't beleive what is "common knowledge" then you are ignorant because you don't beleive what they call "common knowledge" even as they fail to provide anything of substance to support thei beliefs. lol

m14 shooter's rants in this thread are a perfect example.
http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/222871-regressive-gop-tries-to-thwart-gay-rights-7.html

Are you saying no moonbats ever resort to common knowledge to defend their position?In fact, you just invoked common knowledge (ie rightwingers use common knowledge) to defend your position, thus proving my point that common knowledge is commonly wrong.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You know, I've had a lot of friends who were lesbians and gays. Many of them had a specific "type" of person that they liked, just like heterosexuals. Not every gay man or woman is looking for a straight person to "turn" to their way of sexuality, that's a large myth.

Just like some men like women who are big busts and blonde hair while others prefer C cups and short brown hair, gays have their type.

Interestingly enough, the people who are the most scared of gays trying to "turn" them are people those gays wouldn't find attractive.

Oddly enough, this has nothing to do with the point of the thread. Are you afraid to examine your own motives and root out your bigotry, is that why you keep attempting to deflect this back on others?

 

[ABikerSailor]

Strange how you can't comprehend simple English.

I said I was told by some lesbians they believed the abuse they received from men contributed to the development of their sexuality.

QPW is not only a bigot, but also dumb, and a very poor liar.

You said you were told by dozens of lesbians, which is either proof that you are lying, or that you actually believe that crap. either way, it says a lot more about your bigotry than it does mine.

There is a possibility that some event might push a woman towards lesbianism, but one event is not enough, there's also got to be hormonal as well as certain parts of their brain have to have developed in a certain way. Swiss scientists have proven that gays and straights have different brain structures.

By the way, some lesbians have always been, and always will be, lesbian. I had a friend of mine a few years back who liked to go out and shoot pool with me who was a lesbian. One day, after we'd known each other about 6 months, she asked me if I would do her a favor.

I said sure, what did she need? She then asked me if I would have sex with her so that she could verify if she was a lesbian or not. We spent a lot of time discussing this, because I didn't want to end up losing a friend if things didn't work.

Well, after starting to engage in intercourse, she asked me to stop, because she said she didn't feel right about what was happening, so I did.

We tried the same experiment about 2 months later with the same results. Bottom line? Sometimes an event in a persons life can cause them to turn, but most times it's just that you're born that way, because sexuality is pretty much determined at birth, with environment being only a small factor.

 

[BDBoop]

I refuse to play your rubber/glue game, if that's what you were shooting for.

"You're the problem for saying there's a problem!" Pretty damn toxic rationale you got going on there, kemo sabe.

 

[JakeStarkey]

QWB is a fucktard, period. I told him what I was told by some women (several dozen) and what they thought of the influence of male abusive. Fuck him if he can't handle the truth.

ABS, I think both Nature and Nurture play roles in the determination, but I simply don't know how strong one or the other can be.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

So they're not simply bigots, they are simple ignorant bigots.

One more reason not to allow ourselves to succumb to mob rule.

Bigots are the people, like you, who refuse to change their position when presented with evidence. This guy took the trouble as a gay activist to point out to the world that the problem here is not that they are bigots who are unwilling to learn, the problem is that no one treats them with respect and sits down with them to show them that homosexuals are not part of a vast conspiracy to spread their lifestyle to everyone. In other words, if you treat people with contempt you get contempt.

You can say a lot of things about Skull, but labeling him a bigot is incorrect.

Did bigotry or ignorance lead you to levy that charge?

What makes him not a bigot? Is it that you agree with him? By labeling an entire group of people that disagree with his position as ignorant bigots he exposed his own bigotry, All I did was call him on it. If that makes me an ignorant bigot, than I am an ignorant bigot.

 

[ABikerSailor]

You know, I've had a lot of friends who were lesbians and gays. Many of them had a specific "type" of person that they liked, just like heterosexuals. Not every gay man or woman is looking for a straight person to "turn" to their way of sexuality, that's a large myth.

Just like some men like women who are big busts and blonde hair while others prefer C cups and short brown hair, gays have their type.

Interestingly enough, the people who are the most scared of gays trying to "turn" them are people those gays wouldn't find attractive.

Oddly enough, this has nothing to do with the point of the thread. Are you afraid to examine your own motives and root out your bigotry, is that why you keep attempting to deflect this back on others?

Wrong, because a lot of people on this thread think that the whole agenda of the gays is to turn everyone into being like them, as well as many others on this thread who think that gays and lesbians are a bunch of sexual deviants who will have sex with anything.

I'm simply stating this is not true. And, fwiw...........I've known that I was straight ever since I was 7.

 

[Ravi]

Bigots are the people, like you, who refuse to change their position when presented with evidence. This guy took the trouble as a gay activist to point out to the world that the problem here is not that they are bigots who are unwilling to learn, the problem is that no one treats them with respect and sits down with them to show them that homosexuals are not part of a vast conspiracy to spread their lifestyle to everyone. In other words, if you treat people with contempt you get contempt.

You can say a lot of things about Skull, but labeling him a bigot is incorrect.

Did bigotry or ignorance lead you to levy that charge?

What makes him not a bigot? Is it that you agree with him? By labeling an entire group of people that disagree with his position as ignorant bigots he exposed his own bigotry, All I did was call him on it. If that makes me an ignorant bigot, than I am an ignorant bigot.

No, I almost never agree with him. I just know, unlike you, he doesn't come across as a bigot or a faux-libertarian.

 

[Sunni Man]

We tried the same experiment about 2 months later with the same results. Bottom line? Sometimes an event in a persons life can cause them to turn, but most times it's just that you're born that way, because sexuality is pretty much determined at birth, with environment being only a small factor.

The only "small factor' in your experiment with the lezbo was you!!

She couldn't feel anything and that's why called it quit's.

Because she didn't want to embarrass you.

 

[Immanuel]

Bigots are the people, like you, who refuse to change their position when presented with evidence. This guy took the trouble as a gay activist to point out to the world that the problem here is not that they are bigots who are unwilling to learn, the problem is that no one treats them with respect and sits down with them to show them that homosexuals are not part of a vast conspiracy to spread their lifestyle to everyone. In other words, if you treat people with contempt you get contempt.

You can say a lot of things about Skull, but labeling him a bigot is incorrect.

Did bigotry or ignorance lead you to levy that charge?

What makes him not a bigot? Is it that you agree with him? By labeling an entire group of people that disagree with his position as ignorant bigots he exposed his own bigotry, All I did was call him on it. If that makes me an ignorant bigot, than I am an ignorant bigot.

Ravi and Skull agree on something?

I don't know that I have ever seen anything that the two of them would agree on.

"That'll be the day", is now the song that I have stuck in my head.

Immie

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I came across this blog earlier today, and it got me to thinking about bigotry. I suggest that everyone who thinks that the bigots are the people that vote against same sex marriage are small minded read the whole thing.

After last night’s vote, I heard a disturbingly large number of my friends, national commentators, and others suggesting that this vote just proves that North Carolinians (or at least a giant percentage of us) are bigoted, homophobic, backwards people who are so filled with hate that we oppose equality for certain groups just because we can. And see, that’s just not the case. Yes, I voted against the amendment, as did many of my friends and hundreds of thousands of other NC residents. But I also know people who voted for it, and I know that they are not simply bigoted, homophobic, backwards people. It’s way more complicated than that.
Is there a lot of prejudice in North Carolina against LGBT people? Absolutely there is. But it’s not, as some have imagined, just a matter of “bigoted homophobes.” By and large, the prejudice that exists is a matter of a lack of understanding. Many of the folks I’ve talked to honestly believe that people choose to be gay and could choose not to be. They think that giving legal recognition to same-sex partnerships would increase the number of people choosing to be gay, and would therefore encourage more people to turn away from God’s plan for their lives. When they talk about homosexuality as a “perversion,” they’re not trying to be bigoted or mean; they’re being quite literal about it.
Those folks aren’t the only ones who supported the amendment, but in my experience, they make up the lion’s share of those who were most vocally in support. My Christian friends who understand what my life has been like as a gay Christian may not support same-sex marriage, but they tend to be way more thoughtful and careful about these questions, and they are the ones who felt most torn about this amendment and all the legal and moral issues it raised.
That’s why I posted to Facebook: “Yes, my state’s vote tonight saddens me. But it is not, as some have imagined, about intentional bigotry. It is about a lack of understanding, pure and simple—of who we are, what we want, and why it matters. Education is needed, and that is what I will keep dedicating myself to, every single day of my life.”

Crumbs from the Communion Table • A challenge to both sides of the Amendment One debate.


Next time somebody wants to dismiss everyone who disagrees with their views about same sex marriage as a bigot they should remember what the word actually means and take a step to end the intolerance.


Bigot [big-uht] (noun) a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.

So without the religious aspect of it they would have voted against a ban?

It sounds like you're trying to say that what they did could be seen, to the casual observer, as intolerant but it isn't really their fault, they're just acting and thinking as they were brought up to be.

I've had a discussion with a very religious family member about this topic, and I get that message from them, that they don't personally dislike homosexuals, but based on religious creed they don't condone homosexuality. They'll fight to keep marriage between a man and a woman, they would ideally like to change them back to heterosexuality, as many view it as an conscience decision.

In other words they're intolerant of them. Whether they truly mean it in a sinister sense or not doesn't really matter.

Anti-gay marriage advocate's issues are all in their head, their life would otherwise go unchanged if gay-marriage were legalized nationwide...again, besides the massive butt-hurt of it all.

The other side of the coin has a little more to do with real-world practicality.

What makes you think the religious aspect was the deciding factor?

What I am doing is pointing out that I happen to agree with the author of the blog that the people who voted for the ban are not automatically bigots. the issue is a complex one, and it takes time to sort out the implications of all the various issues. My personal journey took may months of thoughtful prayer. Dismissing people as ignorant bigots simply because they disagree with you on an issue is the way bigots approach a subject, and is only going to entrench their resistance to change, just like it would if I treated you like an ignorant bigot because your belief that religion is the main reason people oppose same sex marriage.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Strange how you can't comprehend simple English.

I said I was told by some lesbians they believed the abuse they received from men contributed to the development of their sexuality.

QPW is not only a bigot, but also dumb, and a very poor liar.

You said you were told by dozens of lesbians, which is either proof that you are lying, or that you actually believe that crap. either way, it says a lot more about your bigotry than it does mine.

There is a possibility that some event might push a woman towards lesbianism, but one event is not enough, there's also got to be hormonal as well as certain parts of their brain have to have developed in a certain way. Swiss scientists have proven that gays and straights have different brain structures.

By the way, some lesbians have always been, and always will be, lesbian. I had a friend of mine a few years back who liked to go out and shoot pool with me who was a lesbian. One day, after we'd known each other about 6 months, she asked me if I would do her a favor.

I said sure, what did she need? She then asked me if I would have sex with her so that she could verify if she was a lesbian or not. We spent a lot of time discussing this, because I didn't want to end up losing a friend if things didn't work.

Well, after starting to engage in intercourse, she asked me to stop, because she said she didn't feel right about what was happening, so I did.

We tried the same experiment about 2 months later with the same results. Bottom line? Sometimes an event in a persons life can cause them to turn, but most times it's just that you're born that way, because sexuality is pretty much determined at birth, with environment being only a small factor.

Do you have a point here?

Didn't think so.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You know, I've had a lot of friends who were lesbians and gays. Many of them had a specific "type" of person that they liked, just like heterosexuals. Not every gay man or woman is looking for a straight person to "turn" to their way of sexuality, that's a large myth.

Just like some men like women who are big busts and blonde hair while others prefer C cups and short brown hair, gays have their type.

Interestingly enough, the people who are the most scared of gays trying to "turn" them are people those gays wouldn't find attractive.

Oddly enough, this has nothing to do with the point of the thread. Are you afraid to examine your own motives and root out your bigotry, is that why you keep attempting to deflect this back on others?

Wrong, because a lot of people on this thread think that the whole agenda of the gays is to turn everyone into being like them, as well as many others on this thread who think that gays and lesbians are a bunch of sexual deviants who will have sex with anything.

I'm simply stating this is not true. And, fwiw...........I've known that I was straight ever since I was 7.

Oddly enough, I actually started this thread, so I know what the issue of it is. Beleive it or not, it has nothing to do with who you sleep with.

Tell me something, why do you feel a need to assert your masculinity by insisting you are only attracted to women?

Never mind, I don't really care and I don't want to make run around proving how tough you are. I suggest you go to a board that is orientated toward adult subjects if you actually want to talk about all the guys, I mean girls, you sleep with.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You can say a lot of things about Skull, but labeling him a bigot is incorrect.

Did bigotry or ignorance lead you to levy that charge?

What makes him not a bigot? Is it that you agree with him? By labeling an entire group of people that disagree with his position as ignorant bigots he exposed his own bigotry, All I did was call him on it. If that makes me an ignorant bigot, than I am an ignorant bigot.

No, I almost never agree with him. I just know, unlike you, he doesn't come across as a bigot or a faux-libertarian.

Yet, he just did. Interesting, isn't it?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You can say a lot of things about Skull, but labeling him a bigot is incorrect.

Did bigotry or ignorance lead you to levy that charge?

What makes him not a bigot? Is it that you agree with him? By labeling an entire group of people that disagree with his position as ignorant bigots he exposed his own bigotry, All I did was call him on it. If that makes me an ignorant bigot, than I am an ignorant bigot.

Ravi and Skull agree on something?

I don't know that I have ever seen anything that the two of them would agree on.

"That'll be the day", is now the song that I have stuck in my head.

Immie

They just agreed that they aren't the bigots because the only bigots are the ignorant rednecks that voted against same sex marriage.