Debate Now Who are the serious debaters on this forum?

[Dogmaphobe]

Who asked DumpHole to start whining?

I did.

I have been having trouble getting to sleep lately and have been hoping for some more long winded tedium from him to help knock me out for the night.

 

[BackAgain]

I did.

I have been having trouble getting to sleep lately and have been hoping for some more long winded tedium from him to help knock me out for the night.

DumpHole is less energizing than Nytol.

 

[jc456]

I'm not here to give lessons in civics. Google it.

You obviously don’t know

 

[Rumpole]

You obviously don’t know

I don't do your work for you, sorry.

Your insults do not work on me.

Now pester someone else.

 

[jc456]

I don't do your work for you, sorry.

Your insults do not work on me.

Now pester someone else.

you obviously don't know, That's a ploy dems pull when they don't know. turn the fking page already, that's so last year. Get some new material already. snoooze

 

[Rumpole]

you obviously don't know, That's a ploy dems pull when they don't know. turn the fking page already, that's so last year. Get some new material already. snoooze

Incompetent reply; cop out.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Just read the first three pages of comments to get the gist of the conversation here. Rumpole is certainly right about most regulars here not being up to serious debate. Of course most USMB members aren’t here for that at all. Most are not even willing to discuss honestly or show respect for people with different opinions.

Those who agree with this comment will probably never educate themselves at all:

If someone can't say it in fifty words, I don't need to know it.

Not everything can be answered succinctly. A longer well-thought-out comment can make succinct points along the way and can conclude with powerful effect, effect that gives an unmistakable indication to friend and foe alike that the writer has done his research and is worth listening to.

That’s especially tough to do when we talk about … politics. I’m sure many can comment this way on cars, or guns, or pets or whatever they really know about. But here people mostly just want to rant about politics, or culture wars, and most care not a whit about checking their own assumptions or expressing themselves logically and clearly or even … civilly.

Everyone has opinions about politics and lots of complicated issues. JUST AS EVERYONE HAS AN ASSHOLE and can shit and stink up the room. Once in awhile it’s good to open the windows and let some fresh air in.

It’s great — something I enjoy anyway — trying to write something longer than 50 words. I really enjoy trying to write clearly to clarify my own thoughts. I didn’t always feel this way. Everyone can try this, and if it works, you can share with others a perception you may have newly arrived at, or refined, after research and checking your own previous assumptions at the door. That can sometimes start a useful discussion … or even change a few other minds.

 

[jc456]

Incompetent reply; cop out.

yours was totally incompetent, I agree.

 

[Rumpole]

yours was totally incompetent, I agree.

cop out. No counter offered.
Dismissed.

 

[Rumpole]

Just read the first three pages of comments to get the gist of the conversation here. Rumpole is certainly right about most regulars here not being up to serious debate. Of course most USMB members aren’t here for that at all. Most are not even willing to discuss honestly or show respect for people with different opinions.

Those who agree with this comment will probably never educate themselves at all:

Not everything can be answered succinctly. A longer well-thought-out comment can make succinct points along the way and can conclude with powerful effect, effect that gives an unmistakable indication to friend and foe alike that the writer has done his research and is worth listening to.

That’s especially tough to do when we talk about … politics. I’m sure many can comment this way on cars, or guns, or pets or whatever they really know about. But here people mostly just want to rant about politics, or culture wars, and most care not a whit about checking their own assumptions or expressing themselves logically and clearly or even … civilly.

Everyone has opinions about politics and lots of complicated issues. JUST AS EVERYONE HAS AN ASSHOLE and can shit and stink up the room. Once in awhile it’s good to open the windows and let some fresh air in.

It’s great — something I enjoy anyway — trying to write something longer than 50 words. I really enjoy trying to write clearly to clarify my own thoughts. I didn’t always feel this way. Everyone can try this, and if it works, you can share with others a perception you may have newly arrived at, or refined, after research and checking your own previous assumptions at the door. That can sometimes start a useful discussion … or even change a few other minds.

Thank you. I heartily agree. Those who have a problem with prose that exceeds their attention deficits will certainly have a problem reading the Federalist Papers, or the Wealth of Nations, or any opinion rendered by William Buckley, George Will, or Charles Krauthammer.

Cheers,
Rumpole

 

[jc456]

cop out. No counter offered.
Dismissed.

Counter to nothing is nothing. See you present something then I counter. Your no good here

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

Counter to nothing is nothing. See you present something then I counter. Your no good here

.

This is his/her/its own private bloviation chamber. There are those who come here just to be able to hear their own voices and hope someone else cares.

.

 

[Unkotare]

Thank you. I heartily agree. Those who have a problem with prose that exceeds their attention deficits will certainly have a problem reading the Federalist Papers, or the Wealth of Nations, or any opinion rendered by William Buckley, George Will, or Charles Krauthammer.

Cheers,
Rumpole

What a pretentious douche.

 

[HikerGuy83]

That's easy, you just described FlatCan

Who is FlatCan ?

 

[HikerGuy83]

I'm pretty sure no one came here, to this board, for structured debate...

Some do.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

A number of persons on this forum do not understand how to frame an argument.

But, some of you do.

the non serious ones make wild claims, vacuous claims without substantiating them.

When asked to substantiate, I often get a snarky 'you do it'. No, the onus is always on the the ones making claims to substantiate their claims. You cannot ask others to do your work for you. That never has been the etiquette in any forum I've ever heard of and I've been on many going back to the 90s, the days of Usenet.

I will always substantiate my claim, if it exists. If it doesn't, I'll be happy to say 'it's just my opinion'. Opinions are okay, just make sure you make it clear that that is what they are. If you are making a claim of fact, then substantiate it to the best you can, and offer a path of reasoning for it, to the best that you can. See, to substantiate could just mean to supplement yuor claim, though proving it would be even better, but at least supplement it with something, or at the very minimum, a well reasoned path of logic and naming some well known examples, that would be okay.

But a wild claim, short sentence, 'Biden family are criminals' without evidence, that's not an argument. To say, 'it's in the news', that's not substantiation. A link would suffice. We could then debate the link, sure, but at least provide something, and the more, the merrier. It's called 'moving the debate forward'. Comments that do not move the debate forward are non arguments. Arguments and counter arguments move the debate forward. It's not complicated.

the non serious engage in ad hominems. The attack the source or the messenger and not the message. (yes, I've done this myself, but I would love to argue on a forum that doesn't allow it).

They who do not know how to debate do not engage in a real argument, they riddle their comments with rant words, weasel words, words of emotion and sentiment, engage in petty name calling, and wild claims without substance to them, and do not understand what a real argument is, and they do not understand the difference between an opinion and an argument, the difference between a non argument and a real argument.

For example:

Conservatives are morons. Liberals are idiots.

No, those are not arguments. Those are rants, they are sentiments, weasel words, ad homs, non arguments. Got it?

But, if I wrote: AOC's 'new deal' has issues, which are as follows (list them ) which is supported by (link to authoritative sources which supplement the argument [which, by the way, is not a violation of the 'appeals to authority' logical fallacy, because it's supplementation, not reliance upon] ).

That would be an argument. No snarky quips, no hate-AOC remarks, etc. Real arguments aren't supposed to be impressive by clever word use designed to get likes, they are supposed to be persuasive.

Who are the members of USMB who know how to debate?

Please tell me who you are and you will be the ones invited to future OPs by me on this forum. I don't care if you are right or left or something else. It's not about whether your are right or wrong, that is why we are here, to debate what is right and wrong, but some of you are disingenuous and are here only to get likes from your friends. Some of your I simply cannot take seriously. And, of course, those of you I can't take seriously will typically shoot that same claim back at me, which is, in fact, a cop out.

Who are the serious debaters? Let me know, please. PM me, if you prefer.

Please understand, I do not claim to be the god's gift to debate forums, it's not about how well we argue, I am probably even guilty of some of the sins I eschew, (but I strive, at least, not to, but, at times, it feels like I have to, with some of you) it's about how to at least adhere to a form that allows for constructive debate, and that is what I'm after.

And, another thing, we are anonymous here. All that matters is the argument, not who we are. Some are from foreign countries, it doesn't matter, all that matters is the text in the argument. Nothing more, nothing less. I'm from Texas, in case you are wondering.

Let me know, thank you.

Rumpole.

It sure isn’t you sockpuppet.

 

[Synthaholic]

Who are the serious debaters on this forum?

Synthaholic, for one.

 

[Mindful]

DumpHole is less energizing than Nytol.

Dumphole.

lmao.

 

[miketx]

Rumphole says what?

 

[miketx]

A number of persons on this forum do not understand how to frame an argument.

But, some of you do.

the non serious ones make wild claims, vacuous claims without substantiating them.

When asked to substantiate, I often get a snarky 'you do it'. No, the onus is always on the the ones making claims to substantiate their claims. You cannot ask others to do your work for you. That never has been the etiquette in any forum I've ever heard of and I've been on many going back to the 90s, the days of Usenet.

I will always substantiate my claim, if it exists. If it doesn't, I'll be happy to say 'it's just my opinion'. Opinions are okay, just make sure you make it clear that that is what they are. If you are making a claim of fact, then substantiate it to the best you can, and offer a path of reasoning for it, to the best that you can. See, to substantiate could just mean to supplement yuor claim, though proving it would be even better, but at least supplement it with something, or at the very minimum, a well reasoned path of logic and naming some well known examples, that would be okay.

But a wild claim, short sentence, 'Biden family are criminals' without evidence, that's not an argument. To say, 'it's in the news', that's not substantiation. A link would suffice. We could then debate the link, sure, but at least provide something, and the more, the merrier. It's called 'moving the debate forward'. Comments that do not move the debate forward are non arguments. Arguments and counter arguments move the debate forward. It's not complicated.

the non serious engage in ad hominems. The attack the source or the messenger and not the message. (yes, I've done this myself, but I would love to argue on a forum that doesn't allow it).

They who do not know how to debate do not engage in a real argument, they riddle their comments with rant words, weasel words, words of emotion and sentiment, engage in petty name calling, and wild claims without substance to them, and do not understand what a real argument is, and they do not understand the difference between an opinion and an argument, the difference between a non argument and a real argument.

For example:

Conservatives are morons. Liberals are idiots.

No, those are not arguments. Those are rants, they are sentiments, weasel words, ad homs, non arguments. Got it?

But, if I wrote: AOC's 'new deal' has issues, which are as follows (list them ) which is supported by (link to authoritative sources which supplement the argument [which, by the way, is not a violation of the 'appeals to authority' logical fallacy, because it's supplementation, not reliance upon] ).

That would be an argument. No snarky quips, no hate-AOC remarks, etc. Real arguments aren't supposed to be impressive by clever word use designed to get likes, they are supposed to be persuasive.

Who are the members of USMB who know how to debate?

Please tell me who you are and you will be the ones invited to future OPs by me on this forum. I don't care if you are right or left or something else. It's not about whether your are right or wrong, that is why we are here, to debate what is right and wrong, but some of you are disingenuous and are here only to get likes from your friends. Some of your I simply cannot take seriously. And, of course, those of you I can't take seriously will typically shoot that same claim back at me, which is, in fact, a cop out.

Who are the serious debaters? Let me know, please. PM me, if you prefer.

Please understand, I do not claim to be the god's gift to debate forums, it's not about how well we argue, I am probably even guilty of some of the sins I eschew, (but I strive, at least, not to, but, at times, it feels like I have to, with some of you) it's about how to at least adhere to a form that allows for constructive debate, and that is what I'm after.

And, another thing, we are anonymous here. All that matters is the argument, not who we are. Some are from foreign countries, it doesn't matter, all that matters is the text in the argument. Nothing more, nothing less. I'm from Texas, in case you are wondering.

Let me know, thank you.

Rumpole.

I was once a masterdebator. No longer, eyesight too bad.