Who here is an atheist?

[ding]

Since your entire argument hinges on a presumption that, once again, you cannot prove, your argument lacks a logical foundation.

You do that a lot.

My argument hinges on the cosmological model of inflation theory.

What does yours hinge upon?

 

[ding]

See, this is why it is so easy to overcome Ding's arguments. Because all of them are founded in basic unprovable presumptions. Once you remove those presumptions, his arguments fall apart.

You didn't overcome anything.

You are just stalling because you don't want to have the philosophical discussion.

You are afraid of what the evolution of matter has to say about the laws of nature.

Of course I did. Your refusal to accept that your presumption is flawed in no way alters the fact that it is flawed.

And no. I don't want to have a philosophical discussion. Study of the universe is a scientific study. You want to argue philosophy, feel free to start a discussion, and see who wants to join you. If you are going to discuss the nature of the universe, we'll stick to what we can scientifically prove. Thank you very much.

My basis is inflation theory and the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics.

You have no basis for anything. Show me someone who says that as time approaches infinity that the universe does not approach thermal equilibrium. You can't. No one believes in an infinite acting universe that had no beginning.

So it is YOU that has taken an irrational position. The universe did have a beginning.

 

[Likkmee]

Golden Krust Founder Commits Suicide

 

[ding]

I'm not up for parsing words, bro.

The point was made and stands.

In which post?

Post #81

That is the post I quoted you in where I responded with "One needs a church to have a religion? This is news to me."

How is that making a point? You need to get the simple things explained before you can move on any further.

Because there is no religion based on Zeus.

I thought that was self evident.

There is a religion, an Ancient Greek religion based on Zeus and 11 other gods. It contained sacred texts like Theogony, Works and Days, Odes and Iliad and Odyssey. The religion is called Hellenism and there are over 100, 000 people who still practice it today.

We call that Greek Mythology. Not Greek Religion.

 

[Lysistrata]

Who here is an atheist? It seems to me my belief in god is unfounded and without proof. I know that the universe was created by the big bang and the processes of science. Why on earth do I cling to 2,000 year old sheep herders writing?

This writing promotes hatred, idiocy and backwardness. I am so very close to just saying fuck it and becoming a atheist!!!

What I've read in the bible should never be read to a child as it is fucking savage stoneaged crap. And you fuckers bitch about sex ed??? really? The bible encourages rape, murder of babies and rape of women. On and on. Incest is in the bible with lott fucking his daughters, murder of ones brother and genocide of millions of people.

Just so you know, militant atheists like yourself are the new new nazis. Seriously, you are out there on the extreme edge of the spectrum and you make atheists all over look bad.

FLAG ON THE PLAY:

​

The truth hurts.

Militant atheists like yourself condemn respect for people who believe in God. You're real dicks.

Oh the irony.

What's so ironic about that? I don't condemn respect for atheists. I have three sisters who are atheists. We get along just fine.

Militant atheists? Different story. They get back what they earn.

So what is a "militant" atheist?

 

[frigidweirdo]

"There is no God" makes you an atheist.

Precisely. I am an atheist. My position is also that presented with objective, verifiable evidence that my position is incorrect, I will happily alter my position. That is open-minded. The fact that I am willing to alter my position, given sufficient evidence, makes me no less an atheist, because it does not alter my current position that there is. No. God.

I'm sorry that my position doesn't fit your pre-conceived notion of what an atheist is "supposed" to be, but it is not my job to alter my position in order to fit your expectations.

The problem here is that you're saying "I believe this, prove me wrong", with something that can neither be proven, nor proven wrong.

I'm not convinced this is a true statement. Can it be proven now? No. Will it remain unprovable? I don't know. and neither do you. Neither of us knows what technologies may exist in the future, or what examinations of the universe will be possible.

You believe. It's that simple. You've decided something is true when you don't know. That's not being open minded. You can, of course, believe whatever the hell you like, but it doesn't make you opened minded still.

Again, that is a misrepresentation of my position. Allow me to ask you, are you agnostic about the existence of unicorns? Dragons? Fairies? Aliens? I'm just curious about how far your insistence on absolute agnosticism for things that are unprovable goes.

You also can't label yourself something, and then complain when the label doesn't fit. You could claim you're an apple, but you're not, no matter how much you say "I'm sorry that my position doesn't fit your pre-conceived notion of what an apple is "supposed" to be".

I don't complain about the label. I complain about your unnecessarily discourteous characterisation of atheists.

We're not talking about the future. We're talking about your brain right now.

My...what a narrow little version of what can, and cannot be known you have. "If it can't be known right now, then treat it like it will never be knowable," Sorry, I guess I do have "faith" in something - human curiosity, ingenuity, and the ability to learn new things.

Unicorns, do they exist?

That's my question to you. There is no evidence of their existence. However, lack of evidence is not, itself, aboslute evidence of the contrary. So? Must we be "agnostic" about the existence of unicorns?

We're on one planet, there are how many planets in our universe?

No one knows. Your turn. Are you agnostic about the existence of aliens?

Also a unicorn is a mythical creature. Do I think mythical creatures exist? You can make that argument, they don't live as other animals live, they're not flesh and blood, but they exist in the same way math exists. Math exists, we know this, we teach it, we use it to understand the world, it makes sense. So too does Philosophy and other such things. Without humans, they don't exist. They require a brain to make them exist. Do unicorns exist in the same manner? Sure they do, as mythological creatures. That's why we have a name for them.

Not unlike gods...

What is God? That depends on who you talk to. Some versions of God aren't very believable, like an old man in the sky. But as a creator. Now, the world was created. The world we live in has rules, Math, Science etc. Are these not God? Could be, depends on how you look at it.

"Now, the world was created." - Even this is a presumption. On what do you base that definitive statement?

You're being massively pedantic and it's not sitting very well with me.

It's like you read what I write, and then you decided to insert something that fucking NOTHING to do with what we're talking about, and then you hammer me for that. It's annoying.

We're talking about what you BELIEVE right now. Not in the future, not 5,000 years from now when your atoms have come and gone through numerous other forms. NOW. This is what we're talking about it and if you can't get that round your head, I don't give a fuck, we can just stop talking.

Right now, in this instant you BELIEVE there is no God. Not in 10 years time, not 10 years ago, but NOW. You do this based on your BELIEVE, nothing else, because there's nothing there that can make it concrete for you that there is, or there isn't, a God.

It's that simple. At this point in time this is how you think.

As for your unicorn thing. The whole of my point is WE DON'T KNOW. If you don't know something you have two choices. 1 is to make something up that suits you. 2 is to say you don't know. Religion teaches number 1. Atheism is the same.

Is the world was created a presumption? Not really. I mean you could say we're just a computer program, well the Earth would have been created then.

We've seen things forming, we've seen things die in space, suns and the like. So, no, based on the evidence the world was created.

 

[ding]

Just so you know, militant atheists like yourself are the new new nazis. Seriously, you are out there on the extreme edge of the spectrum and you make atheists all over look bad.

FLAG ON THE PLAY:

​

The truth hurts.

Militant atheists like yourself condemn respect for people who believe in God. You're real dicks.

Oh the irony.

What's so ironic about that? I don't condemn respect for atheists. I have three sisters who are atheists. We get along just fine.

Militant atheists? Different story. They get back what they earn.

So what is a "militant" atheist?

Active hostility toward religion.

The belief that religion "should not simply be tolerated but should be countered, criticized, ridiculed and exposed.

Condemning respect for people who believe in God.

 

[Tuatara]

In which post?

Post #81

That is the post I quoted you in where I responded with "One needs a church to have a religion? This is news to me."

How is that making a point? You need to get the simple things explained before you can move on any further.

Because there is no religion based on Zeus.

I thought that was self evident.

There is a religion, an Ancient Greek religion based on Zeus and 11 other gods. It contained sacred texts like Theogony, Works and Days, Odes and Iliad and Odyssey. The religion is called Hellenism and there are over 100, 000 people who still practice it today.

We call that Greek Mythology. Not Greek Religion.

Their gods were just as real for them as your God is for you. I consider all religions mythology.

 

[Tuatara]

FLAG ON THE PLAY:

​

The truth hurts.

Militant atheists like yourself condemn respect for people who believe in God. You're real dicks.

Oh the irony.

What's so ironic about that? I don't condemn respect for atheists. I have three sisters who are atheists. We get along just fine.

Militant atheists? Different story. They get back what they earn.

So what is a "militant" atheist?

Active hostility toward religion.

The belief that religion "should not simply be tolerated but should be countered, criticized, ridiculed and exposed.

Condemning respect for people who believe in God.

But the religious have not been respecting non believers for a very long time. Atheists are just standing up to the backlash they have encountered over the centuries.

 

[Lysistrata]

I feel compelled to add something else to this discussion: why is it that a person's spiritual thoughts have now become a subject of public discussion? This is a purely private matter for every person on earth. One huge disservice that the right-wingers have done to the people of the United States is to make it acceptable to invade a person's private thoughts. Whether a person believes in some form of a supreme being or not is purely up to them as individuals and is of absolutely no legitimate concern to the rest of society. Back in the day, we all understood that we were not allowed to invade another's privacy. What happened?

 

[frigidweirdo]

I feel compelled to add something else to this discussion: why is it that a person's spiritual thoughts have now become a subject of public discussion? This is a purely private matter for every person on earth. One huge disservice that the right-wingers have done to the people of the United States is to make it acceptable to invade a person's private thoughts. Whether a person believes in some form of a supreme being or not is purely up to them as individuals and is of absolutely no legitimate concern to the rest of society. Back in the day, we all understood that we were not allowed to invade another's privacy. What happened?

Well, they demanded that all politicians that want their vote put on their fake religious smile. They got power by boycotting things that go against their religious interests and the like, now they've decided everyone needs to pander to their wants and desires.

 

[ding]

Post #81

That is the post I quoted you in where I responded with "One needs a church to have a religion? This is news to me."

How is that making a point? You need to get the simple things explained before you can move on any further.

Because there is no religion based on Zeus.

I thought that was self evident.

There is a religion, an Ancient Greek religion based on Zeus and 11 other gods. It contained sacred texts like Theogony, Works and Days, Odes and Iliad and Odyssey. The religion is called Hellenism and there are over 100, 000 people who still practice it today.

We call that Greek Mythology. Not Greek Religion.

Their gods were just as real for them as your God is for you. I consider all religions mythology.

I know you believe that. It's obvious in how you treat us.

Zeus has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with my beliefs. Beliefs which have been well thought through. We live in a universe governed by rules and information. Rules and information are the domain of intelligence. Life seems increasingly to be part of the order of nature. We have good reason to believe that we find ourselves in a universe permeated with life, in which life arises inevitably, given enough time, wherever the conditions exist that make it possible. Mind, rather than emerging as a late outgrowth in the evolution of life, has existed always as the matrix, the source and condition of physical reality - that the stuff of which physical reality is composed is mind-stuff. It is Mind that has composed a physical universe that breeds life, and so eventually evolves creatures that know and create.

Now do you want to tie that to Zeus or what?

 

[ding]

The truth hurts.

Militant atheists like yourself condemn respect for people who believe in God. You're real dicks.

Oh the irony.

What's so ironic about that? I don't condemn respect for atheists. I have three sisters who are atheists. We get along just fine.

Militant atheists? Different story. They get back what they earn.

So what is a "militant" atheist?

Active hostility toward religion.

The belief that religion "should not simply be tolerated but should be countered, criticized, ridiculed and exposed.

Condemning respect for people who believe in God.

But the religious have not been respecting non believers for a very long time. Atheists are just standing up to the backlash they have encountered over the centuries.

Bullshit. That's your perception because you disagree with them exercising their secular rights in opposition to your positions on social causes. No one is oppressing atheists.

 

[Lysistrata]

I feel compelled to add something else to this discussion: why is it that a person's spiritual thoughts have now become a subject of public discussion? This is a purely private matter for every person on earth. One huge disservice that the right-wingers have done to the people of the United States is to make it acceptable to invade a person's private thoughts. Whether a person believes in some form of a supreme being or not is purely up to them as individuals and is of absolutely no legitimate concern to the rest of society. Back in the day, we all understood that we were not allowed to invade another's privacy. What happened?

Well, they demanded that all politicians that want their vote put on their fake religious smile. They got power by boycotting things that go against their religious interests and the like, now they've decided everyone needs to pander to their wants and desires.

Yup. They want pandering. But it doesn't go that way. i don't know what you do when the lights are off, what thoughts that you think as you wander in your own spiritual garden, they are purely yours. Nobody has a right to intrude upon your solitude, despite the right-wingers.

 

[Tuatara]

That is the post I quoted you in where I responded with "One needs a church to have a religion? This is news to me."

How is that making a point? You need to get the simple things explained before you can move on any further.

Because there is no religion based on Zeus.

I thought that was self evident.

There is a religion, an Ancient Greek religion based on Zeus and 11 other gods. It contained sacred texts like Theogony, Works and Days, Odes and Iliad and Odyssey. The religion is called Hellenism and there are over 100, 000 people who still practice it today.

We call that Greek Mythology. Not Greek Religion.

Their gods were just as real for them as your God is for you. I consider all religions mythology.

I know you believe that. It's obvious in how you treat us.

How have I treated you? Did I use abusive language? Did I use ad-hominems? Did I call you or anyone else a dick?

Zeus has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with my beliefs.

I never stated that your beliefs were ever tied to Zeus.

Beliefs which have been well thought through.

Or indoctrinated since childhood I'm betting.

We live in a universe governed by rules and information. Rules and information are the domain of intelligence. Life seems increasingly to be part of the order of nature. We have good reason to believe that we find ourselves in a universe permeated with life, in which life arises inevitably, given enough time, wherever the conditions exist that make it possible.

Sure, but I'm not here to argue Abiogenesis.

Mind, rather than emerging as a late outgrowth in the evolution of life, has existed always as the matrix, the source and condition of physical reality - that the stuff of which physical reality is composed is mind-stuff.

Not sure what mind-stuff is.

It is Mind that has composed a physical universe that breeds life, and so eventually evolves creatures that know and create.

Sorry, you hit psychobabble territory here. I'm not understanding this.

Now do you want to tie that to Zeus or what?

I tie Zeus to every other god.

 

[Tuatara]

Oh the irony.

What's so ironic about that? I don't condemn respect for atheists. I have three sisters who are atheists. We get along just fine.

Militant atheists? Different story. They get back what they earn.

So what is a "militant" atheist?

Active hostility toward religion.

The belief that religion "should not simply be tolerated but should be countered, criticized, ridiculed and exposed.

Condemning respect for people who believe in God.

But the religious have not been respecting non believers for a very long time. Atheists are just standing up to the backlash they have encountered over the centuries.

Bullshit. That's your perception because you disagree with them exercising their secular rights in opposition to your positions on social causes. No one is oppressing atheists.

In the past, atheists were indeed oppressed by the religious and the religious have oppressed other religious people.I never stated that I was being oppressed. I stated that that we are standing up for our non-belief. I don't want to stop you from going to church or practicing your religion. I just don't want any part of it. There are many theists who want to instate prayer back into public schools. Do you agree with that?

 

[cnm]

The values that religion promotes are successful values.

Smiting is profitable? Well, I suppose that's one measure of success.

 

[cnm]

Don't be silly. No other even in antiquity had more manuscripts that were written closer to the event in time. It's not even close.

Yet until they were written, Zeus had more play than YHWH. Therefore according to your argumentum ad biblio Zeus existed at that time.

 

[cnm]

My point was you happily accept evidence when it suits your purpose and reject evidence when it doesn't

That is what you are doing and which I'm trying to point out. You assert documentary records are evidence of YHWH but deny documentary records are evidence of Zeus.

 

[cnm]

Because there is no religion based on Zeus.

I thought that was self evident.

Your argument seems to be that if a religion does not exist the gods that inform that religion do not exist. Therefore according to that argument, when no one worshipped YHWH it did not exist.