Who here is an atheist?

[ding]

See, this is why it is so easy to overcome Ding's arguments. Because all of them are founded in basic unprovable presumptions. Once you remove those presumptions, his arguments fall apart.

The leading cosmological model for how the universe began has been disproved by you?

I don't think so.

What you think is irrelevant. The Laws of Thermodynamics is very specific that they only apply to a closed system. There is no evidence that the universe is a closed system. In fact, because its expansion is assumed to be infinite, this would be evidence that it is not a closed system. As it interacts with whatever is outside of the universe, as it continues to expand, it is possible that it is an open system. We really don't know. Since your entire argument hinges on a presumption that, once again, you cannot prove, your argument lacks a logical foundation.

You do that a lot.

No. The laws of Thermodynamics do not only apply for a closed system.

First Law of Thermodynamics for an Open System ~ Learn Engineering

it's like you go searching for anything that might make your case. And you end up making stupid ass statements like this. It wouldn't be so bad if you didn't dismiss your defeats and ignore your incongruities.

Yes, there is absolutely evidence that the universe is a closed system. The best cosmological model for how the universe began is the inflation theory. It's predictions match our observations better than any other model.

So let me conclude by saying that thermal equilibrium for an infinite acting universe would still exist for a open system. As time approaches infinity the universe approaches thermal equilibrium.

The universe isn't going to get hotter.

I stand corrected. However, I notice you didn't find anything about the Second Law of Thermodynamics for open systems. This would be, because it specifically addresses closed systems: entropy can never decrease over time for an isolated (closed) system, that is, a system in which neither energy nor matter can enter nor leave.. So, unless you can demonstrate that the universe is a closed system, your argument still fails. And I don't really care what appeal to authority you use. Just because a person isn't an expert doesn't make their point invalid.

If anything can pass into, or out of, a system, we say it is an open system.

If only matter can pass into, or out of, a system, but not energy, then we call it a closed system.

If neither matter nor energy can pass into, or out of, a system, then we call it an isolated system.

Processes in which the entropy of an isolated system would decrease do not occur, or, in every process taking place in an isolated system, the entropy of the system either increases or remains constant.

Entropy and the 2nd Law in Open Systems

This guy does a nice job of explaining why our universe is an isolated system...
The (entire) universe is an isolated system. The observable universe is an open system. The entire universe, meaning everything there is, including things we cannot see, is an isolated system because it has no "surroundings"; it's literally everything there is. Obviously, a system cannot exchange energy or matter with "surroundings" that do not exist.

The observable universe, meaning only the part of the universe that we can see, is an open system, because the "boundary" of our observable universe is not actually a physical "boundary" in any possible meaning of the word, and both matter and energy can freely pass through it.

https://www.quora.com/Is-the-universe-an-open-or-a-closed-system.

 

[Czernobog]

What you think is irrelevant. The Laws of Thermodynamics is very specific that they only apply to a closed system. There is no evidence that the universe is a closed system. In fact, because its expansion is assumed to be infinite, this would be evidence that it is not a closed system. As it interacts with whatever is outside of the universe, as it continues to expand, it is possible that it is an open system. We really don't know. Since your entire argument hinges on a presumption that, once again, you cannot prove, your argument lacks a logical foundation.

You do that a lot.

No. The laws of Thermodynamics do not only apply for a closed system.

First Law of Thermodynamics for an Open System ~ Learn Engineering

it's like you go searching for anything that might make your case. And you end up making stupid ass statements like this. It wouldn't be so bad if you didn't dismiss your defeats and ignore your incongruities.

Yes, there is absolutely evidence that the universe is a closed system. The best cosmological model for how the universe began is the inflation theory. It's predictions match our observations better than any other model.

So let me conclude by saying that thermal equilibrium for an infinite acting universe would still exist for a open system. As time approaches infinity the universe approaches thermal equilibrium.

The universe isn't going to get hotter.

I stand corrected. However, I notice you didn't find anything about the Second Law of Thermodynamics for open systems. This would be, because it specifically addresses closed systems: entropy can never decrease over time for an isolated (closed) system, that is, a system in which neither energy nor matter can enter nor leave.. So, unless you can demonstrate that the universe is a closed system, your argument still fails. And I don't really care what appeal to authority you use. Just because a person isn't an expert doesn't make their point invalid.

So, is the human body and open or closed system and why?

It's an open system. Various inputs such as oxygen, food, and water are inputs whereas waste and carbon dioxide are outputs. Energy can also be transmitted in and out of the system, for example if one is throwing a ball, kinetic energy is passed from a human's hand to a ball, thus the exchange of energy

The problem I see right off the bat is that the Universe is suppose to be everything material that exists everywhere

According to whom? If the universe is expanding, it has an "outer edge", correct? Doesn't logic, then, dictate that something must be beyond that edge? NOw, do we know what? No. Now, the theist would immediately jump all of this and insist , "It must be God!" Because, "I don't know" seems to be anathema to theists. I make no such assumptions, as whatever is beyond the edge of the universe is still in the physical realm, and I'm not nearly as bothered by the words "I don't know" that theists are, so I can say I don't know what is out there, only that logic dictate that something is.

 

[Czernobog]

See, this is why it is so easy to overcome Ding's arguments. Because all of them are founded in basic unprovable presumptions. Once you remove those presumptions, his arguments fall apart.

The leading cosmological model for how the universe began has been disproved by you?

I don't think so.

What you think is irrelevant. The Laws of Thermodynamics is very specific that they only apply to a closed system. There is no evidence that the universe is a closed system. In fact, because its expansion is assumed to be infinite, this would be evidence that it is not a closed system. As it interacts with whatever is outside of the universe, as it continues to expand, it is possible that it is an open system. We really don't know. Since your entire argument hinges on a presumption that, once again, you cannot prove, your argument lacks a logical foundation.

You do that a lot.

No. The laws of Thermodynamics do not only apply for a closed system.

First Law of Thermodynamics for an Open System ~ Learn Engineering

it's like you go searching for anything that might make your case. And you end up making stupid ass statements like this. It wouldn't be so bad if you didn't dismiss your defeats and ignore your incongruities.

Yes, there is absolutely evidence that the universe is a closed system. The best cosmological model for how the universe began is the inflation theory. It's predictions match our observations better than any other model.

So let me conclude by saying that thermal equilibrium for an infinite acting universe would still exist for a open system. As time approaches infinity the universe approaches thermal equilibrium.

The universe isn't going to get hotter.

I stand corrected. However, I notice you didn't find anything about the Second Law of Thermodynamics for open systems. This would be, because it specifically addresses closed systems: entropy can never decrease over time for an isolated (closed) system, that is, a system in which neither energy nor matter can enter nor leave.. So, unless you can demonstrate that the universe is a closed system, your argument still fails. And I don't really care what appeal to authority you use. Just because a person isn't an expert doesn't make their point invalid.

If anything can pass into, or out of, a system, we say it is an open system.

If only matter can pass into, or out of, a system, but not energy, then we call it a closed system.

If neither matter nor energy can pass into, or out of, a system, then we call it an isolated system.

Processes in which the entropy of an isolated system would decrease do not occur, or, in every process taking place in an isolated system, the entropy of the system either increases or remains constant.

Entropy and the 2nd Law in Open Systems

This guy does a nice job of explaining why our universe is an isolated system...
The (entire) universe is an isolated system. The observable universe is an open system. The entire universe, meaning everything there is, including things we cannot see, is an isolated system because it has no "surroundings"; it's literally everything there is. Obviously, a system cannot exchange energy or matter with "surroundings" that do not exist.

The observable universe, meaning only the part of the universe that we can see, is an open system, because the "boundary" of our observable universe is not actually a physical "boundary" in any possible meaning of the word, and both matter and energy can freely pass through it.

https://www.quora.com/Is-the-universe-an-open-or-a-closed-system.

Again, that is working off of a presupmtion. that the universe "is all that there is". It's not even a very good presumption. If the universe has an edge (it does, as we know that it is expanding), then logic dictates that there is something in the physical realm that exists outside of that edge. Do we know what? No. But we can logically determine that an edge dictates something beyond that edge.

 

[Tuatara]

How have I treated you? Did I use abusive language? Did I use ad-hominems? Did I call you or anyone else a dick?

uh huh

So then you don't look down on believers?

I never claimed to be a saint. Spolier alert: I am a sinner.

No I don't look down on believers. I do point out hypocrisies though.

 

[Tuatara]

I tie Zeus to every other god.

Of course you do. It is another sign of how you disrespect believers. It's kind off your Trojan horse.

You showed disrespect to other religions when you state your god is the only one or when you state Zeus is part of mythology instead of a religion. I treat all religions equally. You pick and chose which ones you disrespect.

 

[sealybobo]

So. Big Bang.

What caused the "Big Bang"?

Did the Big Bang bring existence into existence? Or did something exist before that?

If so, how?

This universe was born and will die but it won’t be the last and isn’t the first

 

[sealybobo]

So. Big Bang.

What caused the "Big Bang"?

Did the Big Bang bring existence into existence? Or did something exist before that?

If so, how?

We don’t know. Do you?

 

[sealybobo]

Psalms 53:1: “The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.”

No surprise religions warn their followers that there will be non believers

 

[sealybobo]

So. Big Bang.

What caused the "Big Bang"?

Did the Big Bang bring existence into existence? Or did something exist before that?

If so, how?

What caused "God"?

Did God bring existence into existence? Or did something exist before that?

If so, how?

GOD created TIME. Before that there was none --- yet GOD was.

How did he pass the time before time?

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

So. Big Bang.

What caused the "Big Bang"?

Did the Big Bang bring existence into existence? Or did something exist before that?

If so, how?

What caused "God"?

Did God bring existence into existence? Or did something exist before that?

If so, how?

GOD created TIME. Before that there was none --- yet GOD was.

How did he pass the time before time?

Not on a political message board.

 

[sealybobo]

Psalms 53:1: “The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.”

See? Even fools get it! Why can't theists?!

Do you see the verbiage used? There is none that doeth good? Really? So we know that’s not true so clearly no god ever said that comment. Only a theist who doesn’t like non believers would say such an ignorant thing. Who say that?

 

[sealybobo]

Psalms 53:1: “The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.”

Who said that? Who are you quoting here?

 

[sealybobo]

So. Big Bang.

What caused the "Big Bang"?

Did the Big Bang bring existence into existence? Or did something exist before that?

If so, how?

What caused "God"?

Did God bring existence into existence? Or did something exist before that?

If so, how?

GOD created TIME. Before that there was none --- yet GOD was.

How did he pass the time before time?

Not on a political message board.

And why did he waste billions of years on trilobites and then billions on dinosaurs before he came up with us 300,000 years ago? Why have 90% of all the animals that ever lived on earth gone extinct? Does god make mistakes?

 

[sealybobo]

When someone says psalms 53;2 who is doing the talking? If they say “and then the lord blablabla. Who’s the narrator?

 

[Tuatara]

So what is a "militant" atheist?

Active hostility toward religion.

The belief that religion "should not simply be tolerated but should be countered, criticized, ridiculed and exposed.

Condemning respect for people who believe in God.

But the religious have not been respecting non believers for a very long time. Atheists are just standing up to the backlash they have encountered over the centuries.

Bullshit. That's your perception because you disagree with them exercising their secular rights in opposition to your positions on social causes. No one is oppressing atheists.

In the past, atheists were indeed oppressed by the religious and the religious have oppressed other religious people.I never stated that I was being oppressed. I stated that that we are standing up for our non-belief. I don't want to stop you from going to church or practicing your religion. I just don't want any part of it. There are many theists who want to instate prayer back into public schools. Do you agree with that?

First of all when and who were oppressed? Do you have any specifics?

I already stated Atheists were standing up to the backlash they have encountered over the centuries. Let's start with today. Did you know there are 7 states that do not allow atheists to hold public office. During the inquisition atheists were tortured and executed. I don't need to give you a history lesson, it would take up too much space. Atheists are certainly persecuted in the US though.

If you don't want any part of religion, then what are you doing here?

The title of this thread is 'Who here is an Atheist?". Why are you here?

I see nothing wrong with students praying. I see everything wrong with students being forced to pray.

Well we agree on this but when they had prayer in school many non-christians were forced to pray. Religion should be kept out of school.

You said it yourself, you are standing up for NON-BELIEF. Which means you don't have arguments FOR your belief because it is a non-belief. You only have arguments against others having beliefs. That's what you are doing here. You are trying to validate your beliefs by criticizing the beliefs of others.

Everybody here is criticizing each other. This is a debate forum.

Do you know what that is called? Critical theory. The Cultural Marxist practice of critical theory is to criticize what they do not believe to arrive at what they do believe without ever having to examine what they believe. They confuse critical theory for critical thinking. Critical thinking is the practice of challenging what one does believe to test its validity. Something they never do.

Where did you get the bull from. It has defecated all over this.

 

[BULLDOG]

When someone says psalms 53;2 who is doing the talking? If they say “and then the lord blablabla. Who’s the narrator?

Sounded like Carlton Heston to me.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

So. Big Bang.

What caused the "Big Bang"?

Did the Big Bang bring existence into existence? Or did something exist before that?

If so, how?

What caused "God"?

Did God bring existence into existence? Or did something exist before that?

If so, how?

GOD created TIME. Before that there was none --- yet GOD was.

How did he pass the time before time?

Not on a political message board.

And why did he waste billions of years on trilobites and then billions on dinosaurs before he came up with us 300,000 years ago? Why have 90% of all the animals that ever lived on earth gone extinct? Does god make mistakes?

What is time to God?

 

[sealybobo]

What caused "God"?

Did God bring existence into existence? Or did something exist before that?

If so, how?

GOD created TIME. Before that there was none --- yet GOD was.

How did he pass the time before time?

Not on a political message board.

And why did he waste billions of years on trilobites and then billions on dinosaurs before he came up with us 300,000 years ago? Why have 90% of all the animals that ever lived on earth gone extinct? Does god make mistakes?

What is time to God?

Can anyone answer the question? When it says psalms 52 vs 5 “and the lord said....” who is writing this? You would think this is a very important man who is telling us an entire book of what the lord said. Yet I’ll bet you most believers don’t even know.

 

[BULLDOG]

GOD created TIME. Before that there was none --- yet GOD was.

How did he pass the time before time?

Not on a political message board.

And why did he waste billions of years on trilobites and then billions on dinosaurs before he came up with us 300,000 years ago? Why have 90% of all the animals that ever lived on earth gone extinct? Does god make mistakes?

What is time to God?

Can anyone answer the question? When it says psalms 52 vs 5 “and the lord said....” who is writing this? You would think this is a very important man who is telling us an entire book of what the lord said. Yet I’ll bet you most believers don’t even know.

God's secretary?

 

[sealybobo]

How did he pass the time before time?

Not on a political message board.

And why did he waste billions of years on trilobites and then billions on dinosaurs before he came up with us 300,000 years ago? Why have 90% of all the animals that ever lived on earth gone extinct? Does god make mistakes?

What is time to God?

Can anyone answer the question? When it says psalms 52 vs 5 “and the lord said....” who is writing this? You would think this is a very important man who is telling us an entire book of what the lord said. Yet I’ll bet you most believers don’t even know.

God's secretary?

Seriously it just dawned on me. If you ask most Christians who is talking when they read from the Bible they don’t know. Isn’t that interesting? They say Corinthians 5 or psalms 6 but who is telling us that god said?