Who is Responsible for Fatherless Black Families?

[BrianH]

Actually, the largest population on welfare is single, white mothers.

And Chad was being sarcastic.

fair enough, that's my point with welfare, whether it be black, white, hispanic, etc.... Not that i don't trust you, but do you have a link for that information?

 

[BrianH]

Actually, the largest population on welfare is single, white mothers.

And Chad was being sarcastic.

NM, I found a source. http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-welfareblack.htm
You're right, whites lead the way. I'd be curious to find the statistics of how many blacks vs. whites stay on welfare for a longer period of time. I'm sure it varies demographically.

 

[CharlestonChad]

welfare is a bonus to black women though,they are no longer worried about the father leaving because they know they can get government assistance.

How do you know "they are no longer worried"? I'm pretty sure it isn't easy raising a child when you can't afford food, clothes, toys, and daycare.

 

[CharlestonChad]

NM, I found a source. http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-welfareblack.htm
You're right, whites lead the way. I'd be curious to find the statistics of how many blacks vs. whites stay on welfare for a longer period of time. I'm sure it varies demographically.

Yeah, I came across too. Interesting how in other welfare threads I've heard posters claim "I've seen a woman at Walmart with food stamps and a Cadillac".

 

[BrianH]

How do you know "they are no longer worried"? I'm pretty sure it isn't easy raising a child when you can't afford food, clothes, toys, and daycare.

Oh lord, I agree with you dude. Calm down.

Charleston Chad Quote:
"Young black men haven't been taught well enough that it's incredible wrong to abandon the woman they get pregnant."

How do you know that they haven't been taught well enough?
I'm making the same kind of generalized assumption that you are, just about the other gender.

 

[CharlestonChad]

Oh lord, I agree with you dude. Calm down.

Charleston Chad Quote:
"Young black men haven't been taught well enough that it's incredible wrong to abandon the woman they get pregnant."

How do you know that they haven't been taught well enough?
I'm making the same kind of generalized assumption that you are, just about the other gender.

I hear ya. I was just repeating what I've heard from two different pastors at primarily black churches.

 

[AllieBaba]

Supporting insupportable behavior is the reason, like I said. Young black men haven't been taught well enough that it's incredible wrong to abandon the woman they get pregnant.

BUT

Welfare is not sole the reason, as you continue to state. Welfare does not support black men leaving their babies mothers. Welfare only supports the women who are having the baby. Also, I don't think you are looking at this issue in reality based terms. No one wants to live their life poor. Welfare does not take someone out of poverty. Welfare puts food in mouths. An extremely small amount of people are content with just having enough money to pay rent and buy food.

No, welfare is not the sole reason.
And nobody wants to live their life poor. But if you have a whole population of children who see this behavior accepted, which is what is happening, you indoctrinate a whole population of children into perpetuating this behavior. And by subsidizing the behavior, you're supporting it.

 

[CharlestonChad]

They have? And are you saying that all races have equal intelligence?

WJ, were you trying to debate this or something? I noticed you cut and ran from this thread once the discussion got real...

 

[Gunny]

Do you really believe that?



Emotions and preconceived ideas? You may not like what I have to say, but I go by facts first, emotions later. Nobody says "ONLY black men" abandon their families, but how much further need I stress that we are talking about patterns here?

Do you understand what a pattern is, or is that something that needs to be spelled out?

Problem with your argument is those patterns you are attempting to portray as the result of racial genetics are in actuality the result of environment.

 

[William Joyce]

Problem with your argument is those patterns you are attempting to portray as the result of racial genetics are in actuality the result of environment.

Ha!

But that's barely debatable! The scientific community would tell you that most human characteristics are more inherited than created by "environment." But "environment" is the classic liberal go-to because it allows them to play God with their policies and underscores their belief that they can turn water into wine by passing a law or setting up a program.

They can't.

Nature abides.

But let's assume you're correct: a human being's intelligence level is strictly a function of their "environment." So, why can't the mentally retarded be turned into geniuses with the right "environment"?

 

[CharlestonChad]

Ha!



But let's assume you're correct: a human being's intelligence level is strictly a function of their "environment." So, why can't the mentally retarded be turned into geniuses with the right "environment"?

As a person with actual knowledge of the science you are trying to spin, I must say I'm sad to see someone so ignorant of simple scientific knowledge and so ignorant of the process of forming logical conclusions.

But, I'm not surprised at all. Being unable to connect the dots is a major flaw and likely the underlying reason why you are a racist. You simply cannot explain what you see in terms that fit with reality, so you distort your perceptions to create illusions that fit your prejudice.

1. Gunny never said intelligence is strictly a function of environment. Intelligence in genetically determined, but the developing of the mind is environmental.

2. Intelligence is genetically determined on the individual level, but groups of races are not different in their amounts of intelligence. An African tribe is not more intelligent than an American neighborhood. The African tribe still selects the most intelligent man to lead, just like we do. The African tribe simply cultures different uses with their intelligence.

3. Do you have any sort of evidence that you feel shows that one race is more intelligent than another? I know you don't, which is why I will continue to consider you someone whom bases their world view off of opinions and distortions of reality because you have insecurities that likely arose during childhood and the only way to feel like you over come them is to define yourself as a better human than another simply based on skin color.

 

[AllieBaba]

Well that genetic research guru said some races are smarter than others. Then he had to retire.

What is his name? I can't remember. This was about 6 months ago.

It doesn't matter. Some families are hopelessly stupid. Some are smart. Some families have smart, stupid AND crazy members.

We aren't equal in our assets and failings, but we're all human beings with equal value. Intelligence is a really hard thing to measure at any rate, so the argument is idiotic to begin with.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

So when a black man impregnates a woman, he says to himself, "Man, I bet if I leave this woman and child, then they'll get free money from the government and I just want to make life as easy as possible on them".



It is about poverty and lack of principles instilled in the men that abandon their children. They get a girl pregnant, and can't afford the baby, so since they haven't been taught that this is a terrible thing to do and irresponsible, they leave.

Of course, we are all speaking in hypothetical terms...

That isnt the moment when the decision is made. Its more like later on, when rent is due, the mother thinks, ok, I can get subidized housing, money and food stamps if I just kick this lazy ass out. Also, before having sex, they know there is a bailout if they get pregnant.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

Actually, the largest population on welfare is single, white mothers.

And Chad was being sarcastic.

Yea, but only because the pool of white women in America is like 5 times as much. What is the difference in percentages? Hmmmmm?

 

[LuvRPgrl]

You have it backwards as usual.
The thing is, the enviorment can make an intelligent person ignorant.

Also, intelligence isnt the only factor, there are morals and wisdom. Since the days of slavery, the black family has not been allowed to remain intact, it takes a LOOOOONG time for a group to reverse something like that.

Ha!

But that's barely debatable! The scientific community would tell you that most human characteristics are more inherited than created by "environment." But "environment" is the classic liberal go-to because it allows them to play God with their policies and underscores their belief that they can turn water into wine by passing a law or setting up a program.

They can't.

Nature abides.

But let's assume you're correct: a human being's intelligence level is strictly a function of their "environment." So, why can't the mentally retarded be turned into geniuses with the right "environment"?

 

[William Joyce]

Since the days of slavery, the black family has not been allowed to remain intact, it takes a LOOOOONG time for a group to reverse something like that.

"the black family has not been allowed to remain intact"? What does that mean? Who, exactly, is preventing that, other than blacks themselves?

I reject the idea that whites are respsonsible for black ills. If anything, blacks who've had contact with whites are BETTER OFF than the black Africans who never have. I reject the idea slavery, terrible as it was, can explain current black problems, and that whites today are somehow responsible. Other racial and ethnic groups have undergone slavery, genocide (attempts) and worse. Jews, for instance, were slaves under the Egyptians, and have fought off extermination attempts since they began as a people. Yet they are rich, well-educated and powerful. What gives?

 

[William Joyce]

Intelligence is genetically determined on the individual level, but groups of races are not different in their amounts of intelligence. An African tribe is not more intelligent than an American neighborhood. The African tribe still selects the most intelligent man to lead, just like we do. The African tribe simply cultures different uses with their intelligence.

Simply "cultures different uses with their intelligence"? I don't know what that means. Are you suggesting that black Africans are all geniuses, but are somehow 'holding back' or just deciding NOT to employ the simple techniques needed to purify water, irrigate crops or prevent sexually transmitted diseases? Wow, how smart of them. We must plumb their African tribal wisdom!

It's also pretty absurd to assert that intelligence can be inherited by an individual, but not a group. Surely you wouldn't deny that physical characteristics are inherited by groups... but somehow, through some magical form of politically-correct dualism, mental capacity escapes this? No, man, sorry. Your hang-up is that you don't WANT to believe this.

Do you have any sort of evidence that you feel shows that one race is more intelligent than another? I know you don't, which is why I will continue to consider you someone whom bases their world view off of opinions and distortions of reality because you have insecurities that likely arose during childhood and the only way to feel like you over come them is to define yourself as a better human than another simply based on skin color.

The evidence that races vary in intelligence abounds. It's most patently reflected in the sorts of socieites that they build and maintain (or not), with plenty of allowances for natural resources, etc. Asians and whites build and maintain advanced societies with high levels of technology for addressing human problems. Blacks and Hispanics have more primitive levels of society with fewer means for addressing human problems. This pattern is consistent across the globe. Observing this has little to do with insecurities that arose during my childhood.

 

[Gunny]

Ha!

But that's barely debatable! The scientific community would tell you that most human characteristics are more inherited than created by "environment." But "environment" is the classic liberal go-to because it allows them to play God with their policies and underscores their belief that they can turn water into wine by passing a law or setting up a program.

They can't.

Nature abides.

But let's assume you're correct: a human being's intelligence level is strictly a function of their "environment." So, why can't the mentally retarded be turned into geniuses with the right "environment"?

Let's try this again ...

I did not state human characteristics are created more by environment than heredity. Nor did I state a human being's intelligence level is strictly a function of environment.

You are cherrypicking my words and using them interchangeably to suit your argument.

Attempting to correlate mentally challenged people with this argument is trying to stack the deck with exception, not the rule. Obviously, mentally challenged people have real physical defects which disqualifies them for establishing a standard by comparison.

Intellectual capability is individual, and obviously not environmental. I won't even say it is not affected by heredity, because obviously it is. However, there is no conclusive evidence that intellectual capability is dictated by or even affected by race.

You can attempt to sweep environment aside if you wish and call it a "liberal tactic", but you are just ignoring the facts when you do. Given an identical learning environment, one race is not going to prove to be intellectually superior to another.

 

[William Joyce]

there is no conclusive evidence that intellectual capability is dictated by or even affected by race.

But there is so.

[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Race-Evolution-Behavior-History-Perspective/dp/0965683613[/ame]

[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Race-Reality-Differences-Vincent-Sarich/dp/0813340861[/ame]

[ame]http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_b?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=arthur+jensen[/ame]

[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Bell-Curve-Intelligence-Structure-Paperbacks/dp/0684824299/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1208715462&sr=1-1[/ame]

[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Race-Differences-Intelligence-Evolutionary-Analysis/dp/1593680201/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1208715535&sr=1-1[/ame]

[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Why-Race-Matters-Differences-Intelligence/dp/0275957896/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1208715535&sr=1-3[/ame]

You could read on it for the rest of your life.

But you won't bother looking at the evidence, will you? Because, like so many others (both liberal and conservative), YOU JUST DON'T WANT TO BELIEVE IT!

Would you admit that, at least? "I, GunnyL, find the idea that there are racial differences in intelligence to be a very scary idea, so I do my best to scooch away from it."

Hey, no problem. It is pretty scary. But does that mean it's not true?

 

[Gunny]

But there is so.

http://www.amazon.com/Race-Evolution-Behavior-History-Perspective/dp/0965683613&tag=ff0d01-20

http://www.amazon.com/Race-Reality-Differences-Vincent-Sarich/dp/0813340861&tag=ff0d01-20

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_b...ks&field-keywords=arthur+jensen&tag=ff0d01-20

http://www.amazon.com/Bell-Curve-In...8&s=books&qid=1208715462&sr=1-1&tag=ff0d01-20

http://www.amazon.com/Race-Differen...8&s=books&qid=1208715535&sr=1-1&tag=ff0d01-20

http://www.amazon.com/Why-Race-Matt...8&s=books&qid=1208715535&sr=1-3&tag=ff0d01-20

You could read on it for the rest of your life.

But you won't bother looking at the evidence, will you? Because, like so many others (both liberal and conservative), YOU JUST DON'T WANT TO BELIEVE IT!

Would you admit that, at least? "I, GunnyL, find the idea that there are racial differences in intelligence to be a very scary idea, so I do my best to scooch away from it."

Hey, no problem. It is pretty scary. But does that mean it's not true?

Every reference there is a biased report to support an agenda. What would be the purpose of reading propaganda?

It isn't that I don't want to believe it, it's that I DON'T believe it. It defies logic, common sense, AND science.

I wouldn't find the idea that there are racial differences in intelligence any more scary an idea than any other abusrd notion.

In fact, the one who appears to be scared is YOU. So scared in fact, you have to create an enemy based on the color of his skin, and push the propaganda that reinforces your belief in your superiority.

You've created an enemy to blame all of what you perceive as society's woes on. A guy named Adolph did that once too and had a whole nation follow him to ruin.

That what you're after?