Who is responsible for YOU?

[PubliusInfinitum]

f you are completely and totally responsible for YOU, then why care what the government or anyone else is doing?

You can take yourself, right?

Either you're being obtuse and intentionally misusing the word "responsible" or you're an idiot. Meaning that you're either an idiot or you're a liar.

How in the HELL does 'being responsible' for one's self require that one be isolated from, thus disinterested in the actions of others?

The balance of any potential argument which rests upon this premise is moot unless and until that fatal structural flaw in reasoning is rectified.

(Let the record reflect that the member will NOT be producing an argument which shows how one must be isolated from other individuals and their actions and the consequences of those actions in order to accept responsibility for one's self... as there IS NO POTENTIAL CORRELATION... of these oppossing facets in reasoning.)

 

[Bern80]

I would give up at this point Pub. It's the only thing I can do to keep myself from banging my head against the wall.

The best we can hope for is that there aren't a lot of people like ed, Rod and bobo who refuse to acknowledge the level of control they have over their own lives. I wonder who studied for them in school, or who is making sure they continue to remain valuable to their employer, or who manages their financies for them. I could go on. Those are all things I have typically handled myself and I would say is true for most others. HOW one handles those things has a large impact on what types of options you will have in the future, so apparently on top of having people who essentially baby sat them through these various life activites, they are also amazingly short sighted.

 

[editec]

f you are completely and totally responsible for YOU, then why care what the government or anyone else is doing?

You can take yourself, right?

Either you're being obtuse and intentionally misusing the word "responsible" or you're an idiot. Meaning that you're either an idiot or you're a liar.

How in the HELL does 'being responsible' for one's self require that one be isolated from, thus disinterested in the actions of others?

The balance of any potential argument which rests upon this premise is moot unless and until that fatal structural flaw in reasoning is rectified.

(Let the record reflect that the member will NOT be producing an argument which shows how one must be isolated from other individuals and their actions and the consequences of those actions in order to accept responsibility for one's self... as there IS NO POTENTIAL CORRELATION... of these oppossing facets in reasoning.)

Well obviously self made men became so regardless of the society, did they not?

Hence you self made men shouldn't worry what happens in your society, since you somehow miraculously floated above such mudane concerns to attain your positions and your fortunes, right?

You taught youself the language you speak, without help from anyone. And you even had to invent it, too.

You learned all you know on your own and you had to invent all that you know first. Yo7u society gave you NOTHING, right?


You are supermen, and everything you own, and every outcome in your lives came 100% through your own hard work and genius, and your society had NOTHING to do with your state of affairs, right?

Sow ahat you society does or does not do is irrelevant to your lives.

Only us collectivists are dependent on how our society fares, dude.

You self made men are above such human concerns.

 

[Bern80]

f you are completely and totally responsible for YOU, then why care what the government or anyone else is doing?

You can take yourself, right?

Either you're being obtuse and intentionally misusing the word "responsible" or you're an idiot. Meaning that you're either an idiot or you're a liar.

How in the HELL does 'being responsible' for one's self require that one be isolated from, thus disinterested in the actions of others?

The balance of any potential argument which rests upon this premise is moot unless and until that fatal structural flaw in reasoning is rectified.

(Let the record reflect that the member will NOT be producing an argument which shows how one must be isolated from other individuals and their actions and the consequences of those actions in order to accept responsibility for one's self... as there IS NO POTENTIAL CORRELATION... of these oppossing facets in reasoning.)

Well obviously self made men became so regardless of the society, did they not?

Hence you self made men shouldn't worry what happens in your society, since you somehow miraculously floated above such mudane concerns to attain your positions and your fortunes, right?

You taught youself the language you speak, without help from anyone. And you even had to invent it, too.

You learned all you know on your own and you had to invent all that you know first. Yo7u society gave you NOTHING, right?


You are supermen, and everything you own, and every outcome in your lives came 100% through your own hard work and genius, and your society had NOTHING to do with your state of affairs, right?

Sow ahat you society does or does not do is irrelevant to your lives.

Only us collectivists are dependent on how our society fares, dude.

You self made men are above such human concerns.

Such a response was unneccessary. All you had to do say was "yes, I'm being obtuse".

No one here has ever said they are an island unto themselves, that they invented langauge, or are strictly a product of only their own efforts. It is ridiculous to argue extremes. The difference between people like pub and myself and you is that we believe we have a great deal of control over what our future opportunities will be and you, well, don't apparently. We have enough integrity and introspection to see how our own actions, for better or worse, have contributed to where we are now. Looking back at my life and being honest with myself there is no denying that the greatest factor that has contributed to where I am are the choice that I have made. That is something that you are seemingly incapable of doing. You have an external excuse for everything. In a broad sense you just want things to be better for people, we all do. What you seemingly don't get is that all the government programs, all the screwing the rich won't change shit until you figure out that if you want a real shot of anything getting better for you, YOU are going to have to play a significant role and making that happen.

 

[Care4all]

though i haven't followed this thread as closely as i would have liked,

it does seem like editec made a slam dunk on his sarcastic response imo.

there are no, completely self made men...ALL rely on what society has produced so far, and what hands they were dealt in this society....and of course a child from better means has a better hand dealt than an orphan in a boarding home...

But, that richer kid could still turn out to be a bum and that orphan could end up being a CEO, but both of those, in general, are exceptions, to the rule....imo.

Anyway, there is most certainly a point, where it is up to the individual person....but that point still includes the cards they are dealt.

 

[AllieBaba]

f you are completely and totally responsible for YOU, then why care what the government or anyone else is doing?

You can take yourself, right?

Either you're being obtuse and intentionally misusing the word "responsible" or you're an idiot. Meaning that you're either an idiot or you're a liar.

How in the HELL does 'being responsible' for one's self require that one be isolated from, thus disinterested in the actions of others?

The balance of any potential argument which rests upon this premise is moot unless and until that fatal structural flaw in reasoning is rectified.

(Let the record reflect that the member will NOT be producing an argument which shows how one must be isolated from other individuals and their actions and the consequences of those actions in order to accept responsibility for one's self... as there IS NO POTENTIAL CORRELATION... of these oppossing facets in reasoning.)

Well obviously self made men became so regardless of the society, did they not?

Hence you self made men shouldn't worry what happens in your society, since you somehow miraculously floated above such mudane concerns to attain your positions and your fortunes, right?

You taught youself the language you speak, without help from anyone. And you even had to invent it, too.

You learned all you know on your own and you had to invent all that you know first. Yo7u society gave you NOTHING, right?


You are supermen, and everything you own, and every outcome in your lives came 100% through your own hard work and genius, and your society had NOTHING to do with your state of affairs, right?

Sow ahat you society does or does not do is irrelevant to your lives.

Only us collectivists are dependent on how our society fares, dude.

You self made men are above such human concerns.

Omg.

This is indicative of a silver spoon mama's boy who has been in the basement way too long.

Get a fucking job, ed, and come join us in the real world. THen come back and talk to us.

 

[sealybobo]

Those are thing you hear in the news, i'm talking about the shit you'll never hear about, Ted Kennedy, Nancy Pelosi, Michael Moore, etc.... You'll never hear half the hypocritical shit about them.

I don't agree with your politics at all, but you're a UFC fan, so you can't be all bad....

Yea, I hear it in the liberal news. Funny how I don't hear the best news on stations you guys call "liberal medias".

I can tell you that you have been scared/fooled into thinking Al Franken & Barnie Frank and Michael Moore are what's wrong with America, when the facts say it is actually Bush and Delay and Abramoff and Stevens and the GOP. Not Pelosi & Reed. Give them a chance.

Not saying the Dems are perfect, but seriously, after the last 8 years, you need to jump off the GOP bandwaggon for a bit. Stretch your legs. See if maybe there is a better way.

And most importantly, stop listening to the corporate media.

I listen to corporate media way too much, sure, that's my problem. Give Pelosi and Reid a chance ? WOW, did you seriously just say that ? I could have put a temp girl with a bad attitude in their positions for the last 2 years and more would have gotten accomplished.

If that is your honest impression of Nancy Pelosi, then that is an awful starting point for you and I to begin, especially if you are me.

And if you take Rush Limpballs and Jon Boehner (don't even need to misspell it) & Bobbi Jizzdoll seriously, then you are exactly why I don't try to be "bi partisan.

Sorry for replying to such an old post.

I'm looking for the stupid person I talked to weeks ago that said I need to stop playing politics and to work in a bi partisan way, blabla.

I want to ask her/him now if they still feel the same way, after hearing Rush speak.

And now I read this insult about Pelosi???

Well if that is how you Redumblicans honestly think of the speaker? Then FUCK YOU!

She's the people's speaker. And Harry Reed is like our uncle. LOL.

Sure they aren't as slick and corrupt as Tom Delay & Jon Boehner, but give them time. .

 

[editec]

What?

You mean there is no such thing as a self made man?

You mean that you are not the complete masters of your own desinties?

Yet while some of you apparently recognize how absurd my mockery the concept of a self made man is, most of you still cannot understand why people who start out disadvantaged haven't got the same opportunity to overcome their disadvantage and thrive in this world as those of us who do not.

OBVIOUSLY, we all have SOME control over our fates, but FATE ITSELF dicatates our lives no less than what we do with our fate.

I'm terribly happy to hear that we now can all agree to what I have always though was a stunningly obvious truth that even a child should be able to understand.

 

[Bern80]

Anyway, there is most certainly a point, where it is up to the individual person....but that point still includes the cards they are dealt.

And I think the real argument is to what extent. Are people in large part the product of their own efforts or mostly a product of their environment? I have to believe the former because while you may not have control over where you start in life, where you end up is primarily going to depend on you. You may have been born into a wealthy family and sent the best schools (or in the ghetto going to a ghetto school), but only YOU control the effort you are going to put toward studying. Maybe you got hired for a job because of a friend, only YOU can put forth the effort it takes to keep that job. Only you can determine how valuable you choose to be to your employer. Maybe your parents lavished you with money or maybe you were dirt poor. How wisely you handle those financial situations is up to you.

The point is people can make all the excuses they want, until they hold themselves accountable nothing is going to change.

 

[Bern80]

OBVIOUSLY, we all have SOME control over our fates, but FATE ITSELF dicatates our lives no less than what we do with our fate.

Again this is where the difference is. You cop out to saying you only have SOME control over your future. Which is just that, a cop out. Your control over your future opportuniteis and ultimate outcomes is quite signficant. Doesn't how much YOU CHOOSE to study play a significant role in your opportunities in terms of colleges you can attend? Doesn't how YOU manage your finances determine the financial position you will be in the future? Doesn't the effort you put forth for your employer determine to what extent you will be considered valuable to the company?

It must be a rather sad existence to believe that you don't have control over you future. If it were true i would pity you. Since you're using it as a crutch, basically saying 'I can't control life's ups and downs, so I'm not gonna even try' I just think you're pathetic. Sure shit might happen to all of us. It probably will in all of our life times.

I can't think of any better evidence than myself as to why I am right about this. You attempt to make me out to be this greedy rich person with a silver spoon when in reality I am much closer to the poor victims you bemoan. I had cancer when I was kid. THAT, my friend, is fate. While cured, I am, to this day, not quite physically what I would be had I not had cancer. My options are simple. I can do what you recommend and piss and moan and wait around for someone to give me things you think i deserve that I may have been deprived as a result. Or, since I am of able mind and body for all practical intents I can make choices that will improve my opportunities. Studying hard in school, (which no one can do for me). manage my finances wisely (which no one can do for me). Work hard for me boss so he see me as less expendable (which no on can do for me).

the fact is ed, circumstances don't make the man, they reveal the person he is. Must be pretty said to see what you are.

 

[Care4all]

OBVIOUSLY, we all have SOME control over our fates, but FATE ITSELF dicatates our lives no less than what we do with our fate.

Again this is where the difference is. You cop out to saying you only have SOME control over your future. Which is just that, a cop out. Your control over your future opportuniteis and ultimate outcomes is quite signficant. Doesn't how much YOU CHOOSE to study play a significant role in your opportunities in terms of colleges you can attend? Doesn't how YOU manage your finances determine the financial position you will be in the future? Doesn't the effort you put forth for your employer determine to what extent you will be considered valuable to the company?

It must be a rather sad existence to believe that you don't have control over you future. If it were true i would pity you. Since you're using it as a crutch, basically saying 'I can't control life's ups and downs, so I'm not gonna even try' I just think you're pathetic. Sure shit might happen to all of us. It probably will in all of our life times.

I can't think of any better evidence than myself as to why I am right about this. You attempt to make me out to be this greedy rich person with a silver spoon when in reality I am much closer to the poor victims you bemoan. I had cancer when I was kid. THAT, my friend, is fate. While cured, I am, to this day, not quite physically what I would be had I not had cancer. My options are simple. I can do what you recommend and piss and moan and wait around for someone to give me things you think i deserve that I may have been deprived as a result. Or, since I am of able mind and body for all practical intents I can make choices that will improve my opportunities. Studying hard in school, (which no one can do for me). manage my finances wisely (which no one can do for me). Work hard for me boss so he see me as less expendable (which no on can do for me).

the fact is ed, circumstances don't make the man, they reveal the person he is. Must be pretty said to see what you are.

you are correct...they BOTH could have studied a lot, they BOTH could manage their own finances equally as well, and they BOTH could also excel in their jobs...

THAT does not mean they BOTH will have the same monitary equivalence in general... in the end....one could still be poor in the end, because they began with less than nothing, verses beginning with a wealth of support.

That's just life....and i don't see how that part can be changed, nor should necessarily be changed....

but, it is a reality that should be considered when measuring ones own accomplishments.....compared to the accomplishments of others that are not as grandios as ones own....

that's all....just a tiny bit of humbling oneself appropriately....imo.

care

 

[Bern80]

OBVIOUSLY, we all have SOME control over our fates, but FATE ITSELF dicatates our lives no less than what we do with our fate.

Again this is where the difference is. You cop out to saying you only have SOME control over your future. Which is just that, a cop out. Your control over your future opportuniteis and ultimate outcomes is quite signficant. Doesn't how much YOU CHOOSE to study play a significant role in your opportunities in terms of colleges you can attend? Doesn't how YOU manage your finances determine the financial position you will be in the future? Doesn't the effort you put forth for your employer determine to what extent you will be considered valuable to the company?

It must be a rather sad existence to believe that you don't have control over you future. If it were true i would pity you. Since you're using it as a crutch, basically saying 'I can't control life's ups and downs, so I'm not gonna even try' I just think you're pathetic. Sure shit might happen to all of us. It probably will in all of our life times.

I can't think of any better evidence than myself as to why I am right about this. You attempt to make me out to be this greedy rich person with a silver spoon when in reality I am much closer to the poor victims you bemoan. I had cancer when I was kid. THAT, my friend, is fate. While cured, I am, to this day, not quite physically what I would be had I not had cancer. My options are simple. I can do what you recommend and piss and moan and wait around for someone to give me things you think i deserve that I may have been deprived as a result. Or, since I am of able mind and body for all practical intents I can make choices that will improve my opportunities. Studying hard in school, (which no one can do for me). manage my finances wisely (which no one can do for me). Work hard for me boss so he see me as less expendable (which no on can do for me).

the fact is ed, circumstances don't make the man, they reveal the person he is. Must be pretty said to see what you are.

you are correct...they BOTH could have studied a lot, they BOTH could manage their own finances equally as well, and they BOTH could also excel in their jobs...

THAT does not mean they BOTH will have the same monitary equivalence in general... in the end....one could still be poor in the end, because they began with less than nothing, verses beginning with a wealth of support.

That's just life....and i don't see how that part can be changed, nor should necessarily be changed....

but, it is a reality that should be considered when measuring ones own accomplishments.....compared to the accomplishments of others that are not as grandios as ones own....

that's all....just a tiny bit of humbling oneself appropriately....imo.

care

I don't disagree with any of that. I am thankful everyday that I had parents that were able to get me off on the right foot so to speak. But circumstances can only get you so far. It's like a bunch of people starting a race at different positions. If you start at one place and I start half again closer to the finish you can argue it will be easier for me to 'win' the race. But I am not going to finsih if I don't do something and if you decide you are going to put forth x amount of effort you very possibly could still win, especially if I decide I'm content where I am or feel I am entiteld to have someone come up and wheel me to the end.

 

[Care4all]

Again this is where the difference is. You cop out to saying you only have SOME control over your future. Which is just that, a cop out. Your control over your future opportuniteis and ultimate outcomes is quite signficant. Doesn't how much YOU CHOOSE to study play a significant role in your opportunities in terms of colleges you can attend? Doesn't how YOU manage your finances determine the financial position you will be in the future? Doesn't the effort you put forth for your employer determine to what extent you will be considered valuable to the company?

It must be a rather sad existence to believe that you don't have control over you future. If it were true i would pity you. Since you're using it as a crutch, basically saying 'I can't control life's ups and downs, so I'm not gonna even try' I just think you're pathetic. Sure shit might happen to all of us. It probably will in all of our life times.

I can't think of any better evidence than myself as to why I am right about this. You attempt to make me out to be this greedy rich person with a silver spoon when in reality I am much closer to the poor victims you bemoan. I had cancer when I was kid. THAT, my friend, is fate. While cured, I am, to this day, not quite physically what I would be had I not had cancer. My options are simple. I can do what you recommend and piss and moan and wait around for someone to give me things you think i deserve that I may have been deprived as a result. Or, since I am of able mind and body for all practical intents I can make choices that will improve my opportunities. Studying hard in school, (which no one can do for me). manage my finances wisely (which no one can do for me). Work hard for me boss so he see me as less expendable (which no on can do for me).

the fact is ed, circumstances don't make the man, they reveal the person he is. Must be pretty said to see what you are.

you are correct...they BOTH could have studied a lot, they BOTH could manage their own finances equally as well, and they BOTH could also excel in their jobs...

THAT does not mean they BOTH will have the same monitary equivalence in general... in the end....one could still be poor in the end, because they began with less than nothing, verses beginning with a wealth of support.

That's just life....and i don't see how that part can be changed, nor should necessarily be changed....

but, it is a reality that should be considered when measuring ones own accomplishments.....compared to the accomplishments of others that are not as grandios as ones own....

that's all....just a tiny bit of humbling oneself appropriately....imo.

care

I don't disagree with any of that. I am thankful everyday that I had parents that were able to get me off on the right foot so to speak. But circumstances can only get you so far. It's like a bunch of people starting a race at different positions. If you start at one place and I start half again closer to the finish you can argue it will be easier for me to 'win' the race. But I am not going to finsih if I don't do something and if you decide you are going to put forth x amount of effort you very possibly could still win, especially if I decide I'm content where I am or feel I am entiteld to have someone come up and wheel me to the end.

I am thankful as well, for my own strong, family support, that I have had!

And as with you, I do give myself credit, for making the most of it!

Care

 

[Bern80]

http://finance.yahoo.com/expert/article/yourlife/144940

But to expect that ‘government' is a fairy godmother who will rescue you from your problems over any long period is just fantasy. Here's the good news: This country will be rescued by each of us doing what we can do in our own individual sphere of action as government works in its sphere of action. There are roughly 142 million men and women in the labor force. Their ingenuity, flexibility, energy, and confidence will make more difference than anything government does on an individual basis -- which is not to take away a thing from the effects of good policy.

In the free society, we rescue ourselves. I think in particular of a young man who graduated from Williams College in 1935. It was hard times, with almost 20 percent unemployment, as we now know.

The young man had no money and few connections. But he didn't know what he didn't have, and he didn't know how deep the Depression was. So he just went out, got a teaching job in Iowa, used the money to work and study at The University of Chicago, found a wife, and started a career that took him to fame and prosperity. He didn't count on anyone else to do it for him. He was a Phi Beta Kappa from a great college, but he didn't hesitate to wash dishes for a meal and a quarter.

That man was my father.

I think of Herbert Hoover, who graduated from mining engineering school in the late 1880s. Just as he was entering the labor force in 1893, a huge Depression hit. But he didn't know about it because there were few statistics, so he headed out West, started a mining enterprise, and became a millionaire.

Put Down the Paper and Get to Work

If you spend the day reading about how bad things are, you will never get out of bed. If you put down the paper and get to work, and then work twice as hard and twice as smart as you used to, and maybe take less pay right up front, you will get ahead.

Here is a lesson from my father: In every economic era, there is always a shortage of talented, creative, well-educated workers. Be one of those workers.

I think of my pal Barron Thomas, a talented salesman of airplanes and related items and services. Since the recession hit in earnest in the fall, I hardly get to talk to him. Why? Because he works all the time. He makes the deals the other guys are too lazy or short-sighted to make. If you absolutely, positively want it to be sold, if you want to buy at the best price, you go to Barron Thomas. The flight world knows it, and he gets sales. Plus, he doesn't get depressed, because he's working too hard to get depressed. He gets that endorphin rush, that glorious feeling of self-esteem one gets from working hard and being exhausted at the end of a successful day.

My point isn't to plug Barron. He's got a huge reputation already. My point is to tell you that the hard-working people will still get work. They will have money to spend. They will spend it, and eventually it will pull us out of this darned recession.

Earn Your Success

I think of Henry Luce, who started ‘Fortune' magazine when the Great Depression was well under way, or Bill Benton, who started one of the most successful ad agencies of all time, Benton & Bowles, during the Depression. They didn't expect a bailout. They expected to earn their success -- and they did.

Imagination, hard work, and persistence can conquer any phase of the business cycle. Imitate Mr. Thomas, Mr.Bowles, and Mr. Luce. Let other people get depressed by the headlines. Let other people wait around for Mr. Obama to rescue them. You go out and go to work, using every resource of energy and imagination you have. The DMV is not going to bail you out. By and large, and with a few exceptions, you have to bail yourself out.

Get to work.

Here's at least one fairly smart guy that agrees with me.

 

[FactFinder]

Looking back at my life and being honest with myself there is no denying that the greatest factor that has contributed to where I am are the choice that I have made. QUOTE]

In my case it was nearly all blood, sweat and tears. Of course buying low helps.

 

[Peejay]

My dad was an orphan. He was adopted by poor farmers and his adopted father died when he was ten. His mother lost the farm to the medical bills and they both lived in poverty afterwards. My dad joined the Army, it was the only option he could see. He was smart enough that he could have done a lot of things, except for the hand he was dealt. That would make itself obvious, soon enough. He went to Vietnam, two tours, got married, had two kids, worked everyday in the furniture business and every night in his part time business of electronic security. He built his own controls back in the days before semi conducters and E proms. It was all logic circuits and relays. But he was really good at it. He slowly built the business as he could spare time and money while still working in sales. I worked in the business from the time I was about 11 years old, pulling wire. By the time I was 25, I had worked for a couple other companies and brought that knowledge back to my old mans company. He finally got to go full time into what he had always wantred to do when he was 56 years old. At 61, he was diagnosed with PLS and he is now disabled and retired at 63.

Now, let's look at Mr. Furna. I worked for him for a bit in Morehead City, NC. He came from folks who were a bit better off than my Dad's. He got his paper from a small college, got a co signed loan with his Dad's good credit and opened a security company. By the age of 27 he sold it for $250,000.

The hand you get has EVERYTHING to do with where you are and EVERYHTING to do with the perspective of where you are. My Dad thinks he's got it made. He thinks he's got it made because he clawed his way far enough along that he's fairly secure that he won't go hungry, like he did as a kid. That's his base line. That's his measure.

It's about perspective.

 

[AllieBaba]

And so long as people continue to be able to move upwards, that's all that matters.

It's when you start smacking them down and not allowing them to move at all that you get into trouble.

 

[Peejay]

And so long as people continue to be able to move upwards, that's all that matters.

It's when you start smacking them down and not allowing them to move at all that you get into trouble.

No. Not at all. People love to talk about who earned what and who didn't. It's not all about that. Some people are just in a better position. That's just the way it is. The playing field is not level. I'm not advocating that it should or could ever be leveled but failure to acknowledge the fact is ignorant. Two men that offer the exact same effort and intelligence do not end up in the same place. There are a ton of factors from pure luck, to where you started from that play in. Attempting to reduce it to any kind of effort = success formula is hog wash.

 

[Bern80]

And so long as people continue to be able to move upwards, that's all that matters.

It's when you start smacking them down and not allowing them to move at all that you get into trouble.

No. Not at all. People love to talk about who earned what and who didn't. It's not all about that. Some people are just in a better position. That's just the way it is. The playing field is not level. I'm not advocating that it should or could ever be leveled but failure to acknowledge the fact is ignorant. Two men that offer the exact same effort and intelligence do not end up in the same place. There are a ton of factors from pure luck, to where you started from that play in. Attempting to reduce it to any kind of effort = success formula is hog wash.

It is equally hogwash to believe effort has little or nothing to do with it. if people start thinking that and behaving as such we are fucked.

Again, none of us can change where are starting points in life, some will have it better, some will have it worse. The outcomes are what you control. To use your starting point as an excuse to not put forth effort or use as a crutch as to why you are owed something is an excuse. I dont' care how many times I have to say this. If you don't acknowledge your roll in the opportunites you have and will have your opprtunities will not improve.

 

[Peejay]

And so long as people continue to be able to move upwards, that's all that matters.

It's when you start smacking them down and not allowing them to move at all that you get into trouble.

No. Not at all. People love to talk about who earned what and who didn't. It's not all about that. Some people are just in a better position. That's just the way it is. The playing field is not level. I'm not advocating that it should or could ever be leveled but failure to acknowledge the fact is ignorant. Two men that offer the exact same effort and intelligence do not end up in the same place. There are a ton of factors from pure luck, to where you started from that play in. Attempting to reduce it to any kind of effort = success formula is hog wash.

It is equally hogwash to believe effort has little or nothing to do with it. if people start thinking that and behaving as such we are fucked.

Again, none of us can change where are starting points in life, some will have it better, some will have it worse. The outcomes are what you control. To use your starting point as an excuse to not put forth effort or use as a crutch as to why you are owed something is an excuse. I dont' care how many times I have to say this. If you don't acknowledge your roll in the opportunites you have and will have your opprtunities will not improve.

I absolutely ackowledge effort. It is one of the keys, but certainly not the turn key. There are a ton of factors. Effort will never equal any constant. Some get more for their effort. Some get less. And the reasons are all over the board. If you become aware of this it will certainly affect your effort.