Whom would you call the worst president in American history?

[BluePhantom]

I really can't see rating William Henry Harrison among the worstest just because of poor weather judgment. Arguably he could be rated one of the best on the basis that he did the least damage -- though that would be unintentional.

I think it's still too soon to have the perspective to assign a relative position to Shrub. But when the time comes (say 2019), I'll be shocked if he's not near the bottom. That guy was a freaking embarrassment.

Generally speaking I would agree. Several years ago I did a pretty exhaustive study on the presidents and ranked them according to a bunch of criteria (foreign policy, domestic policy, political skills, SCOTUS appointments, etc). In that exercise, I omitted WH Harrison and James Garfield because there was simply not enough data to make a call. However, she asked for 44 presidents so I had to account for all 44. It's irrelevant to the argument though. Even if you pull both of them out, I still have GWB somewhere in the middle of the pack.

Yeah it is pretty much irrelevant, just making the point that there's no basis for ranking Harrison lowly -- or really at all.

I can see two issues with your exhaustive study project: one, if you're asked for "44 Presidents" you'd have to include one who's not even done with his tenure now, let alone several years ago when he would have been just beginning, and two, there haven't even been 44 POTUSes yet, even counting the present one. You would have had to rate Grover Cleveland twice. How do you do that? Was Cleveland better or worse than himself?

That always cracks me up, counting the same guy twice....

Yeah, when I did that study, Obama had just taken office and I didn't count him for obvious reasons and at the time I didn't count GWB either because I felt it was too early. One really needs to allow several years to pass before one can look at things objectively. I read an article recently about GWB's approval rating today and it was something like 52%. Well....that's a hell of a difference from when he left office. Same thing for Clinton and every president. So...allowing time for things to sink in and settle down is important.

As for Cleveland....I took his two terms together when I ranked him but it's a good point you make.

Garfield, on the other hand, pun intended, could reportedly write in Latin with one hand and Greek with the other simultaneously.
Which is awesome.

Garfield was an interesting guy. Who knows how it might have turned out, but I get the feeling the nation was robbed of someone who could have been a great president and remembered fondly by history instead of a historical footnote

 

[candycorn]

So Congress is passing laws without Obama or Bush's approval? In the old days, the President used to have to sign bills into laws. I'm not sure you taught American history.

Of course not, but most presidents are very hesitant to use the veto unless it's a significant issue and they know they will win the fight. Vetoing everything that comes down the pipe pisses Congress (and the public) off and they go from uncooperative to flat out hostile. An important rule of politics...know when to pick a fight and when not to.

Its pretty naive to believe that there were not clear goals involved with American Indians and Mexicans...the spread of our nation across the continent.

So blood for oil is evil even though our entire economy is based on it, our currency is backed by it, and it's a critical element in the goods we produce, but blood for land is perfectly fine? Wow....you are one cold blooded woman.

No, just can tell the difference between land and resources for the people of the nation and for the nation vs. oil for (if you believe the liberal dogma) big companies who simply turn around and sell it for a tidy profit to some of the same people who spilled blood in the mud to secure those oil fields for them.

 

[Allenmichael]

Obama.


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[Staidhup]

Based on what, corruption, economics, foreign and domestic policy? Each administration has had its scandals, Wilson for his embracing of eugenics, his progressive experiment, establishment of the blue print for fascism, military weapons and supply procurement cronyism? Grant for the Tweed Gang of NY and carpetbagger's during reconstruction of the south? Harding and Tea Pot Dome? FDR for adultery, disregard for the judicial system, approving the enslavement of eastern Europe, anti Semitic and racist beliefs and view points, failed economic policy? Nixon for Watergate? LBJ for wealth accumulation, kick backs, Vietnam, and Gulf of Tonkin, the list is long and filled with examples. Each had their strong points, distractions, and detractors. As for leadership and vision for the future and embracing the unique traits that define the American Experience, which after all is what a President is asked to demonstrate, my hat goes off to Carter and Obama, both failed on all fronts.

 

[BluePhantom]

So Congress is passing laws without Obama or Bush's approval? In the old days, the President used to have to sign bills into laws. I'm not sure you taught American history.

Of course not, but most presidents are very hesitant to use the veto unless it's a significant issue and they know they will win the fight. Vetoing everything that comes down the pipe pisses Congress (and the public) off and they go from uncooperative to flat out hostile. An important rule of politics...know when to pick a fight and when not to.

Its pretty naive to believe that there were not clear goals involved with American Indians and Mexicans...the spread of our nation across the continent.

So blood for oil is evil even though our entire economy is based on it, our currency is backed by it, and it's a critical element in the goods we produce, but blood for land is perfectly fine? Wow....you are one cold blooded woman.

No, just can tell the difference between land and resources for the people of the nation and for the nation vs. oil for (if you believe the liberal dogma) big companies who simply turn around and sell it for a tidy profit to some of the same people who spilled blood in the mud to secure those oil fields for them.

That's not what oil is to us and that's not why we fight to control it. Oil backs our currency like gold and silver used to. When Nixon removed us from the gold standard he had to have something to guarantee our currency with. He struck a deal with OPEC wherein we would recognize the royal house of Saud and in exchange all oil would only be sold in exchange for American dollars in either New York or London. This effectively removed us from the gold standard and put us on the oil standard. Even better, our currency is backed by the resources of other nations. It's fucking brilliant.

The effect is that if anyone wants to buy oil they have to go through us and the UK. No matter who buys or sells the oil, we get a cut. Even better we can influence the policies of other nations by refusing to give them American dollars and depriving them of oil. This is why we can rack up enormous debt to China, for example, and it's no sweat off our backs. If China gets shitty about it, no more oil for them! Sweet, huh?

But suddenly Iraq is under an embargo and can't sell oil at all. Under the table, Saddam Hussein starts to sell oil illegally to France and Germany in exchange for Euros, laundered through the Oil for Food Program. You don't really think that France and Germany opposed the invasion because they gave two shits about Iraq do you? Hell no! They care about Iraq about as much as we care about Ecuador. They were just pissed that we were about to blow their illegal cheap oil scam. We can't allow that. Think it was just "good friendship" that made the UK back the invasion? Hell no! They get a cut too! If we allow nations to sell oil for Euros, they suddenly have no need for American dollars and the foreign back vaults that are filled to the brim with American dollars get changed out for Euros. Now all those dollars come flooding back into the United States. This has several consequences for us, all of which are a disaster.

1) With the flood of currency into the nation and the lack of backing by a resource, the value of the dollar plunges to historic lows making it about as valuable as the old Italian Lira. The economy would collapse into a depression that would make the 1930s look like prosperous times.

2) The Euro would supplant the dollar as the currency of choice in the global reserve bank (which is exactly what it was designed to do) allowing the EU to dictate policy to us instead of the other way around.

3) All our debts to other nations would suddenly come due. With no way to blackmail the rest of the world into writing off what we owe them, now we have to pay up. With what? All the useless American currency we now have?

That would leave us with two options. 1) Accept our new status as a third-world country (meaning no more cars, big screen TVs, cell phones, etc. for us), or 2) seize the entire Middle East militarily and take ALL the oil. That's World War III. So which would you prefer? The reality is it doesn't matter who was in the Oval Office. It could have been GWB, Clinton, Obama, James Polk, or Mickey Mouse. Once Saddam started selling oil for Euros, his fate was sealed. We had no choice but to make an example of him for anyone who even thought of selling oil for anything other than American dollars. WMD? Pffft...that was just our bullshit excuse (which was needed because people don't want to think about wars over money, even though that's the precise reason why most wars are waged). The reason we went was because we didn't have any other option but to protect our economy from total collapse

 

[quorthon]

Obama.
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Apple Obama and the Highway Trust Fund - Fortune

 

[Freewill]

Ok now most people today would say George W. Bush, however most of these people were not alive for past presidents. Who did the most damage to the country while in office?
We have too many candidates I suppose. I bet at least 1 agree to anyone who call Obama.
But still. Who?

William Jefferson Clinton by far. He rode the Reagan revolution into recession. His "free" trade agreements resulted in exactly what Perot predicted. His foreign policy resulted in both of the WTC attacks. He sullied and lowered the bar for truth and honest when he lied under oath about something so trivial as a BJ. If he lied about that what else, more important, did he lie about?

 

[Ernie S.]

Whom would you call the worst president in American history?


obama hands down. but hillary stand a good chance of taking that honor should she win.

 

[rightwinger]

Ok now most people today would say George W. Bush, however most of these people were not alive for past presidents. Who did the most damage to the country while in office?
We have too many candidates I suppose. I bet at least 1 agree to anyone who call Obama.
But still. Who?

William Jefferson Clinton by far. He rode the Reagan revolution into recession. His "free" trade agreements resulted in exactly what Perot predicted. His foreign policy resulted in both of the WTC attacks. He sullied and lowered the bar for truth and honest when he lied under oath about something so trivial as a BJ. If he lied about that what else, more important, did he lie about?

I liked Clinton

Booming economy and kept us out of wars

Can't wait for the next one

 

[Freewill]

Ok now most people today would say George W. Bush, however most of these people were not alive for past presidents. Who did the most damage to the country while in office?
We have too many candidates I suppose. I bet at least 1 agree to anyone who call Obama.
But still. Who?

William Jefferson Clinton by far. He rode the Reagan revolution into recession. His "free" trade agreements resulted in exactly what Perot predicted. His foreign policy resulted in both of the WTC attacks. He sullied and lowered the bar for truth and honest when he lied under oath about something so trivial as a BJ. If he lied about that what else, more important, did he lie about?

I liked Clinton

Booming economy and kept us out of wars

Can't wait for the next one

An economic boom that Reagan started and Clinton rode into recession. The free trade agreements that he shoved down his own party's throat has come to roost.

Out of war? WTF was the unauthorized, by anyone, 72 days of terror bombing Serbia?

 

[deltex1]

Ok now most people today would say George W. Bush, however most of these people were not alive for past presidents. Who did the most damage to the country while in office?
We have too many candidates I suppose. I bet at least 1 agree to anyone who call Obama.
But still. Who?

I've lived thru a dozen...Obama takes the cake....by a landslide.

 

[deltex1]

Ok now most people today would say George W. Bush, however most of these people were not alive for past presidents. Who did the most damage to the country while in office?
We have too many candidates I suppose. I bet at least 1 agree to anyone who call Obama.
But still. Who?

William Jefferson Clinton by far. He rode the Reagan revolution into recession. His "free" trade agreements resulted in exactly what Perot predicted. His foreign policy resulted in both of the WTC attacks. He sullied and lowered the bar for truth and honest when he lied under oath about something so trivial as a BJ. If he lied about that what else, more important, did he lie about?

I liked Clinton

Booming economy and kept us out of wars

Can't wait for the next one

Left us with the high tech bubble, 911 and a stain on her dress. A cunning pig.

 

[deltex1]

Ok now most people today would say George W. Bush, however most of these people were not alive for past presidents. Who did the most damage to the country while in office?
We have too many candidates I suppose. I bet at least 1 agree to anyone who call Obama.
But still. Who?

I've lived thru a dozen...Obama takes the cake....by a landslide.

Make that thirteen...forgot about Ford...

 

[Unkotare]

Ok now most people today would say George W. Bush, however most of these people were not alive for past presidents. Who did the most damage to the country while in office?
We have too many candidates I suppose. I bet at least 1 agree to anyone who call Obama.
But still. Who?

I've lived thru a dozen...Obama takes the cake....by a landslide.

He's incompetent, unqualified, unaccountably arrogant, and inept, but that POS FDR is still the worst.

 

[deltex1]

Ok now most people today would say George W. Bush, however most of these people were not alive for past presidents. Who did the most damage to the country while in office?
We have too many candidates I suppose. I bet at least 1 agree to anyone who call Obama.
But still. Who?

I've lived thru a dozen...Obama takes the cake....by a landslide.

He's incompetent, unqualified, unaccountably arrogant, and inept, but that POS FDR is still the worst.

Not arguing with you...but what damage did he do that was not correctable, undoable, subject to strict management and oversight? He pushed us in the wrong direction...but why haven't we pushed back?

 

[there4eyeM]

This thread is still running and people are still repeating the same things?

#43 was "nummah ten!"

 

[skye]

Obama is unique as he single handedly has managed to divide the nation, and ensured that his own destructive, progressive, politically correct decisions have taken hold to the everlasting detriment of society.

On the world stage he has dragged the US down from its position as the pre eminent world power.

Largely because of Obama there is an imminent atmosphere of doom and destruction and things are not looking good.

Hussein would be the worst President ever in my opinion.

 

[rightwinger]

Ok now most people today would say George W. Bush, however most of these people were not alive for past presidents. Who did the most damage to the country while in office?
We have too many candidates I suppose. I bet at least 1 agree to anyone who call Obama.
But still. Who?

William Jefferson Clinton by far. He rode the Reagan revolution into recession. His "free" trade agreements resulted in exactly what Perot predicted. His foreign policy resulted in both of the WTC attacks. He sullied and lowered the bar for truth and honest when he lied under oath about something so trivial as a BJ. If he lied about that what else, more important, did he lie about?

I liked Clinton

Booming economy and kept us out of wars

Can't wait for the next one

An economic boom that Reagan started and Clinton rode into recession. The free trade agreements that he shoved down his own party's throat has come to roost.

Out of war? WTF was the unauthorized, by anyone, 72 days of terror bombing Serbia?

Kind of a reach....dontcha think?

Reagan had a tough enough time with his own economy and Clinton became president based on Bush's " it's the economy stupid" faultering

 

[Pogo]

Whom would you call the worst president in American history?


obama hands down. but hillary stand a good chance of taking that honor should she win.

I see some wags are partisan-hack enough not only to call a POTUS whose term isn't even done yet -- but this is a new low: declaring future POTUSes who haven't even been elected, a year and a half before they'd even be inaugurated.

--- which must also mean he's compared the entire field of all future POTUSes as well.

Brilliant post there, hack. Don't quit the day job.

 

[quorthon]

Obama is unique as he single handedly has managed to divide the nation, and ensured that his own destructive, progressive, politically correct decisions have taken hold to the everlasting detriment of society.

On the world stage he has dragged the US down from its position as the pre eminent world power.

Largely because of Obama there is an imminent atmosphere of doom and destruction and things are not looking good.

Hussein would be the worst President ever in my opinion.

Know why? Because he's incumbent. Comparing G.W.Bush and Barry Hussein O'Dumbo I ask myself who is dumber and who had done more good for the country. And then I remember that we didn't like George when he was in office too. One worse than the other.