Who's English is the best here?

[yiostheoy]

That's a very difficult question to answer, for so much of the discussion on USMB depends as much upon (1) one's awareness of the topic one opts to discuss, (2) the clarity and coherence of one's thinking about the topic, (3) one's willingness to fully express one's thoughts, and (4) one's command of English in expressing one's ideas. One's command of English can appear inept as a result of gaps and flaws related to the former three factors. In light of all four factors, though it's possible to discern when a writer has specific lapses in their command of standard English grammar, syntax and usage, it's not nearly as easy to reliably gauge whose English is the best.

More importantly, however, what is the point of determining/discussing whose English is best? There is no competition for that "title." The person who "owns" that superlative won't care because they already know their English is excellent. The people who have subpar English skills won't care because they likely aren't soliciting lessons, and were they, the conventions of "perfect" English composition and usage are there for the taking on myriad Internet sites.

Thus, even if we were to arrive at a consensus on who among us does have the best English, then what? What is there to do with that knowledge/agreement? Indeed, I'm amazed this thread topic has garnered some 125+ posts that are presumably on-topic.

Simplicity is not an easy task for the overly educated tribe.

overly educated

Now there's a fine example of an oxymoron.

I could have said the excessively instead of overly but the later count took up less space to keep the diatribe down.

I could have said the excessively instead of overly

"Overly," "excessively" and "too" are, in the contest of your statement, synonymous; thus doing so would not have altered the oxymoronic nature of the remark.

Perhaps, however, you'd care to share with us just how one can have too much education. Frankly, I can't imagine that's possible. I think it's possible to make a qualitative judgment about how much education one needs or should have in various situations and life circumstances, but the notion that there is such a thing as absolutely being over educated is preposterous.

As very wise person once told me that if you really desire to get someone people's attention speak as though talking to a kindergartner. Formal education, knowledge base and wisdom are not all one in the same even though some may believe that they are. One can be totally educated to the highest degree and yet still have the common sense total idiot.

This also works for international communications with peoples (plural because it refers to many nations) speaking English as their second language.

K-I-S-S -- keep it simple.

 

[xotoxi]

I will throw my proverbial hat into the ring. In addition to my discerning perception, impeccable good taste, and extensive vocabulary, I am quite adept at spelling, grammar, and punctuation.

Excellent use of the Oxford comma.

I also normally put a comma before the final conjunctive "and", "or", etc.

Doing so might save you millions of dollars.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/16/us/oxford-comma-lawsuit.html?_r=0

What a frivolous lawsuit. SMH.

Not frivolous for the truck drivers.

 

[usmbguest5318]

I will throw my proverbial hat into the ring. In addition to my discerning perception, impeccable good taste, and extensive vocabulary, I am quite adept at spelling, grammar, and punctuation.

Excellent use of the Oxford comma.

I also normally put a comma before the final conjunctive "and", "or", etc.

Doing so might save you millions of dollars.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/16/us/oxford-comma-lawsuit.html?_r=0

What a frivolous lawsuit. SMH.

SMH ??

Sh!t my hueovos ??

I also don't know what "SMH" means as he's used it. I suspect my text-happy kids know what it means.

 

[yiostheoy]

How about this for legalese lawyer-speak:

WHEREAS: The semicolon is primarily reserved for ultra technical writing such as statues of laws, and

WHEREAS: This is in the high country of legalese lawyer-speak, now

THEREFORE: In any other type of writing a semicolon detracts from communication not adds to it.

Yup, that's standard contract language. I'm used to it from reading international corporate agreements between related affiliated corporations.

I couldn't stand being a lawyer. Reading contracts just scrambles my brain.

Trust me, the training one receives to become a lawyer would result in your having no "scrambling" effect from reading contracts. You may not like reading them, but reading them won't "scramble" your brain if you have the training for it.

When I read or proofread a legal contract I need to make charts and vin diagrams for it with arrows pointing different ways.

My mind thinks mathematically not rhetorically.

 

[yiostheoy]

Dammit still no authentic real Texans here yet ??

Hossfly !!

Where the fokk are you man ??

 

[koshergrl]

It looks like nobody knows the plural of "y'all."

I'll give this a few days to see if any true Texan's knows.

"Functionally, the emergence of y'all can be traced to the merging of singular and plural second-person pronouns in Early Modern English.[4] Y'all thus fills in the gap created by the absence of a separate second-person plural pronoun in standard modern English. Y'all is unique in that the stressed form that it contracts (you-all) is converted to an unstressed form.[9]

"The usage of y'all can satisfy several grammatical functions, including an associative plural, a collective pronoun, an institutional pronoun, and an indefinite pronoun.[5][10]

"Y'all serves as a "tone-setting device to express familiarity and solidarity."[11] When used in the singular, y'all can be used to convey a feeling of warmth towards the addressee.[12] In this way, singular usage of y'all differs from French, Russian or German, where plural forms can be used for formal singular instances.[12]"

Even wiki is better versed than y'all.

Y'all - Wikipedia

Dammit koshergrl the ANSWER is IN THERE and you are giving it away !!!

STFU.

You STFU.

 

[edthecynic]

"What is the plural of y'all?"

All y'all
Youse
You-uns

 

[koshergrl]

How about this for legalese lawyer-speak:

WHEREAS: The semicolon is primarily reserved for ultra technical writing such as statues of laws, and

WHEREAS: This is in the high country of legalese lawyer-speak, now

THEREFORE: In any other type of writing a semicolon detracts from communication not adds to it.

Yup, that's standard contract language. I'm used to it from reading international corporate agreements between related affiliated corporations.

I couldn't stand being a lawyer. Reading contracts just scrambles my brain.

Trust me, the training one receives to become a lawyer would result in your having no "scrambling" effect from reading contracts. You may not like reading them, but reading them won't "scramble" your brain if you have the training for it.

When I read or proofread a legal contract I need to make charts and vin diagrams for it with arrows pointing different ways.

My mind thinks mathematically not rhetorically.

Shuddup. Please, will you ever?

 

[Marion Morrison]

I will throw my proverbial hat into the ring. In addition to my discerning perception, impeccable good taste, and extensive vocabulary, I am quite adept at spelling, grammar, and punctuation.

Excellent use of the Oxford comma.

I also normally put a comma before the final conjunctive "and", "or", etc.

Doing so might save you millions of dollars.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/16/us/oxford-comma-lawsuit.html?_r=0

What a frivolous lawsuit. SMH.

Not frivolous for the truck drivers.

They found a loophole and exploited it. They knew they weren't supposed to be getting overtime.

I'm not sure how a company can pull that off without violating Federal law, but who knows?

 

[xotoxi]

I'll second that nomination, since this is not a pure parliamentarian Robert's Rules Of Order process.

Xelor is giving you a hard run for your money though.

He too follows the Oxford comma.

I use the Oxford comma when it adds clarity. When it doesn't, as it does not in simple sequences, I don't use it.

Clarity is the prime test of all writing.

Since reading the writing is offset in space and time and the reader cannot ask the writer for further clarification, clarity is therefore the most crucial test of any word, sentence, punctuation, or rule.

The fact that you know that as proven by your mentioning it makes you one of the best and most knowledgeable writers here.

We try to teach this to kids in college but they don't often get it.

I use punctuation to help convey to the reader EXACTLY the way I want them to read it.

I find posts that do not have punctuation, and do not have capital letters at the beginning of sentences, are very distracting and usually I cannot follow them.

 

[koshergrl]

I'll nominate xotoxi then, since nobody is supposed to nominate themselves in a pure parliamentarian Robert's Rules Of Order process.

I'll second that nomination, since this is not a pure parliamentarian Robert's Rules Of Order process.

xotoxi is another who has an inflated opinion of his wit and ability.

You two are alike that way.

 

[Pogo]

Y'all thus fills in the gap created by the absence of a separate second-person plural pronoun in standard modern English.

What? English has second-person plural personal pronouns: you, your and yours.

Yes but those are not specifically plural. They can be either. That's why y'all is needed to specify as plural.

???

"Y'all" is nothing more than a contraction of "you all," which, though my Southern roots endear me to writing and saying it in casual situations, is considered both redundant and informal.

• It's redundant because "you/your" without "all" afterwards already means "you all." If a speaker/writer doesn't indeed mean all the people hearing/reading his work -- you readers, you listeners, you in the audience, etc. -- s/he should use an impersonal pronoun.
• It's informal because it's a contraction.

Romance languages, for instance, has a distinct second-person plural language. English, however, is an agglomerated evolution of Latinate, Germanic and Greek linguistics. In other words, it is a language unto itself. Yes, one can compare and contrast English with other languages, and in doing so, one observes the noted difference. Variance notwithstanding, English doesn't have a distinct second-person plural personal pronoun because the conventions of the language don't require there to be one. Because English grammar is what is is, there is no call for inventing distinct second-person plural personal pronouns, except perhaps among people who just can't "get with" the way English works.

I think the point zipped right past you. That is, again, the pronoun you may mean EITHER "you, personally" (singular) or "you, the collective" (plural). One must depend on context to find out which is intended and even then it may not be sufficient.

That is exactly why y'all has value; (<semicolon) it always means "you, the collective (plural). There's no additional contextual ciphering required.

Historically you meant "you, the collective" while the singular was thou (thee/thine/thy). The latter, being a direct personal confrontation, was employed as the "informal familiar you" against the formal You, just as German has du/Ihr, French has tu/Vous etc. When thou fell into archaism around the 17th century it left You to perform both functions, singular and plural. Hence the need for an additional distinctive term to specify which concept is meant.

None of which I'm afraid have anything to do with "conventions not requiring there to be one". That was a cute story but it's made-up crapola.

 

[Marion Morrison]

How about this for legalese lawyer-speak:

Yup, that's standard contract language. I'm used to it from reading international corporate agreements between related affiliated corporations.

I couldn't stand being a lawyer. Reading contracts just scrambles my brain.

Trust me, the training one receives to become a lawyer would result in your having no "scrambling" effect from reading contracts. You may not like reading them, but reading them won't "scramble" your brain if you have the training for it.

When I read or proofread a legal contract I need to make charts and vin diagrams for it with arrows pointing different ways.

My mind thinks mathematically not rhetorically.

Shuddup. Please, will you ever?

Translation to Cpt. Kirk comma:


Shut, up, please, will, you ever?

 

[yiostheoy]

It looks like nobody knows the plural of "y'all."

I'll give this a few days to see if any true Texan's knows.

"Functionally, the emergence of y'all can be traced to the merging of singular and plural second-person pronouns in Early Modern English.[4] Y'all thus fills in the gap created by the absence of a separate second-person plural pronoun in standard modern English. Y'all is unique in that the stressed form that it contracts (you-all) is converted to an unstressed form.[9]

"The usage of y'all can satisfy several grammatical functions, including an associative plural, a collective pronoun, an institutional pronoun, and an indefinite pronoun.[5][10]

"Y'all serves as a "tone-setting device to express familiarity and solidarity."[11] When used in the singular, y'all can be used to convey a feeling of warmth towards the addressee.[12] In this way, singular usage of y'all differs from French, Russian or German, where plural forms can be used for formal singular instances.[12]"

Even wiki is better versed than y'all.

Y'all - Wikipedia

Dammit koshergrl the ANSWER is IN THERE and you are giving it away !!!

STFU.

You STFU.

koshergrl you practically told them all (the mega-plural of them) what the answer to my riddle is.

Oddly nobody has caught it yet !!!

 

[koshergrl]

"What is the plural of y'all?"

All y'all
Youse
You-uns

STFU.

Can be correctly applied in any situation.

 

[xotoxi]

Excellent use of the Oxford comma.

I also normally put a comma before the final conjunctive "and", "or", etc.

Doing so might save you millions of dollars.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/16/us/oxford-comma-lawsuit.html?_r=0

What a frivolous lawsuit. SMH.

Not frivolous for the truck drivers.

They found a loophole and exploited it. They knew they weren't supposed to be getting overtime.

I'm not sure how a company can pull that off without violating Federal law, but who knows?

And it wasn't the company's fault. It was the state law that was missing a comma.

Company got screwed. Now I pay 5¢ more per gallon of milk. FUCK THEM!

 

[koshergrl]

Yup, that's standard contract language. I'm used to it from reading international corporate agreements between related affiliated corporations.

I couldn't stand being a lawyer. Reading contracts just scrambles my brain.

Trust me, the training one receives to become a lawyer would result in your having no "scrambling" effect from reading contracts. You may not like reading them, but reading them won't "scramble" your brain if you have the training for it.

When I read or proofread a legal contract I need to make charts and vin diagrams for it with arrows pointing different ways.

My mind thinks mathematically not rhetorically.

Shuddup. Please, will you ever?

Translation to Cpt. Kirk comma:


Shut, up, please, will, you ever?

It looks like nobody knows the plural of "y'all."

I'll give this a few days to see if any true Texan's knows.

"Functionally, the emergence of y'all can be traced to the merging of singular and plural second-person pronouns in Early Modern English.[4] Y'all thus fills in the gap created by the absence of a separate second-person plural pronoun in standard modern English. Y'all is unique in that the stressed form that it contracts (you-all) is converted to an unstressed form.[9]

"The usage of y'all can satisfy several grammatical functions, including an associative plural, a collective pronoun, an institutional pronoun, and an indefinite pronoun.[5][10]

"Y'all serves as a "tone-setting device to express familiarity and solidarity."[11] When used in the singular, y'all can be used to convey a feeling of warmth towards the addressee.[12] In this way, singular usage of y'all differs from French, Russian or German, where plural forms can be used for formal singular instances.[12]"

Even wiki is better versed than y'all.

Y'all - Wikipedia

Dammit koshergrl the ANSWER is IN THERE and you are giving it away !!!

STFU.

You STFU.

koshergrl you practically told them all (the mega-plural of them) what the answer to my riddle is.

Oddly nobody has caught it yet !!!

It wasn't posed as a riddle. It was posed as a question.

Y'all should take classes on how to effectively communicate.

 

[xotoxi]

I'll nominate xotoxi then, since nobody is supposed to nominate themselves in a pure parliamentarian Robert's Rules Of Order process.

I'll second that nomination, since this is not a pure parliamentarian Robert's Rules Of Order process.

xotoxi is another who has an inflated opinion of his wit and ability.

You two are alike that way.

And kosherglr is just a syphilitic whore.

 

[Meathead]

I am giving you a break because you obviously know Greek and therefore there is a chance that you might even know some Philosophy as well.

A lot of fags and trolls have me on their "iggy" list.

I don't have a list myself. It's a safe-space thing for pussies. So there you go. Go for it.

 

[Pogo]

I couldn't stand being a lawyer. Reading contracts just scrambles my brain.

Trust me, the training one receives to become a lawyer would result in your having no "scrambling" effect from reading contracts. You may not like reading them, but reading them won't "scramble" your brain if you have the training for it.

When I read or proofread a legal contract I need to make charts and vin diagrams for it with arrows pointing different ways.

My mind thinks mathematically not rhetorically.

Shuddup. Please, will you ever?

Translation to Cpt. Kirk comma:


Shut, up, please, will, you ever?

It looks like nobody knows the plural of "y'all."

I'll give this a few days to see if any true Texan's knows.

"Functionally, the emergence of y'all can be traced to the merging of singular and plural second-person pronouns in Early Modern English.[4] Y'all thus fills in the gap created by the absence of a separate second-person plural pronoun in standard modern English. Y'all is unique in that the stressed form that it contracts (you-all) is converted to an unstressed form.[9]

"The usage of y'all can satisfy several grammatical functions, including an associative plural, a collective pronoun, an institutional pronoun, and an indefinite pronoun.[5][10]

"Y'all serves as a "tone-setting device to express familiarity and solidarity."[11] When used in the singular, y'all can be used to convey a feeling of warmth towards the addressee.[12] In this way, singular usage of y'all differs from French, Russian or German, where plural forms can be used for formal singular instances.[12]"

Even wiki is better versed than y'all.

Y'all - Wikipedia

Dammit koshergrl the ANSWER is IN THERE and you are giving it away !!!

STFU.

You STFU.

koshergrl you practically told them all (the mega-plural of them) what the answer to my riddle is.

Oddly nobody has caught it yet !!!

It wasn't posed as a riddle. It was posed as a question.

Y'all should take classes on how to effectively communicate.

Chips is a riddle unto itself. His posing posts here are riddled with mendacity chips.