Why an atheist

[BreezeWood]

Much easier to just forget gods and admit that absolute truth is what humans can't achieve, "absolute" simply being fantastic by definition.

absolute: not qualified or diminished in any way; total. viewed or existing independently and not in relation to other things; not relative or comparative.

fantastic: imaginative or fanciful; remote from reality. "fantastic hybrid creatures"
Similar: fanciful; extravagant; extraordinary; irrational; wild; mad; absurd
ding imagined himself to be absolute, existing independently, remote from reality

ding imagines himself being which in and of itself is reality.

.

ding imagines himself being which in and of itself is reality.

.
not when giving up one's spirit to a messiah, religion - they have abandoned all hope for their own destiny, reality and livelihood.

You misspelled Lord.

.

You misspelled Lord.

ding imagines himself being which in and of itself is reality.

.
no, it's an oxymoron ....

 

[Colin norris]

if we're not looking for Truth, we'll never find it ...

If you are only looking at Christianity, then it seems like you have already claimed to find it. Why not Astrology? Zoroastrianism? Voodoo?

I don't believe that ReinyDays comment was limited to Christianity. I certainly didn't take it that way. My take on Christianity is that it teaches how to see reality. Which is one of my favorite things about it. There is a sense of joy and peace when one no longer has a preference for an outcome.

Christianity teaches how to see reality??
Are you kidding? That's an oxymoron.
There's nothing about religion which his real. The whole thing is a hoax and a big con.

What outcome are you talking about?
Your expecting to go to heaven?
You're delusional.

Sure it does. It teaches to die to self and have no preference for an outcome. That's how one sees reality.

All outcomes.

Me expecting to go to heaven? No way. I'm no saint.

Delusional? No. I just don't have a preference for an outcome is all. I am free. It feels great. You should try it.

My crucial point was you said religion teaches reality. There is no God and never has been. There's no heaven etc.
It's total rubbish so don't start anticipating outcomes as a result of your faith.

God is reality. Without God there is no existence. Sorry. But putting that aside the only way I know how to see reality is to die to self and have no preference for an outcome. Then you are free to see things as they are and not how you want them to be.

God is not a reality. He does not exist other than in your mind. You have no evidence whatsoever not gave you had any interactions. So don't lay your lies on people if it's not proven.
The only reality you have is the fact you have been conned all your life. I know that is hard to swallow but it must be accepted. Its fact.
I'll bet you believe you are entitled to eternal life for being a religious slave.
How arrogant and presumptuous is that?
So cut you diatribe of rubbish.

 

[ding]

if we're not looking for Truth, we'll never find it ...

If you are only looking at Christianity, then it seems like you have already claimed to find it. Why not Astrology? Zoroastrianism? Voodoo?

I don't believe that ReinyDays comment was limited to Christianity. I certainly didn't take it that way. My take on Christianity is that it teaches how to see reality. Which is one of my favorite things about it. There is a sense of joy and peace when one no longer has a preference for an outcome.

Christianity teaches how to see reality??
Are you kidding? That's an oxymoron.
There's nothing about religion which his real. The whole thing is a hoax and a big con.

What outcome are you talking about?
Your expecting to go to heaven?
You're delusional.

Sure it does. It teaches to die to self and have no preference for an outcome. That's how one sees reality.

All outcomes.

Me expecting to go to heaven? No way. I'm no saint.

Delusional? No. I just don't have a preference for an outcome is all. I am free. It feels great. You should try it.

My crucial point was you said religion teaches reality. There is no God and never has been. There's no heaven etc.
It's total rubbish so don't start anticipating outcomes as a result of your faith.

God is reality. Without God there is no existence. Sorry. But putting that aside the only way I know how to see reality is to die to self and have no preference for an outcome. Then you are free to see things as they are and not how you want them to be.

God is not a reality. He does not exist other than in your mind. You have no evidence whatsoever not gave you had any interactions. So don't lay your lies on people if it's not proven.
The only reality you have is the fact you have been conned all your life. I know that is hard to swallow but it must be accepted. Its fact.
I'll bet you believe you are entitled to eternal life for being a religious slave.
How arrogant and presumptuous is that?
So cut you diatribe of rubbish.

If we assume that everything is just an accidental coincidence of the properties of matter, the logical conclusion is that matter and energy are just doing what matter and energy do which makes sense. The problem is that for matter and energy to do what matter and energy do, there has to be rules in place for matter and energy to obey. The formation of space and time followed rules. Specifically the law of conservation and quantum mechanics. These laws existed before space and time and defined the potential of everything which was possible. These laws are no thing. So we literally have an example of no thing existing before the material world. The creation of space and time from nothing is literally correct. Space and time were created from no thing. Spirit is no thing. No thing created space and time.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

It's your claim. It's not mine to puzzle out.

Just as it isn't my job to play along with your act.

 

[ding]

It's your claim. It's not mine to puzzle out.

Just as it isn't my job to play along with your act.

That's so you to make a claim from emotion and not be able to actually explain the basis for that emotion. It's almost like you think it makes sense for others to accept your answer without showing your work and proof. Sort of like a dogma.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

That's so you to make a claim from emotion and not be able to actually explain the basis for that emotion

Useless rhetorical garbage. You are trying to waste my time. Go back and reread, you will find the answers.

 

[ding]

That's so you to make a claim from emotion and not be able to actually explain the basis for that emotion

Useless rhetorical garbage. You are trying to waste my time. Go back and reread, you will find the answers.

I did go back and read it. Nope. It;s not there. You make an unsubstantiated claim and when asked to substantiate it... you decline. How is that not dishonest?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

That's so you to make a claim from emotion and not be able to actually explain the basis for that emotion

Useless rhetorical garbage. You are trying to waste my time. Go back and reread, you will find the answers.

I did go back and read it. Nope. It;s not there. You make an unsubstantiated claim and when asked to substantiate it... you decline. How is that not dishonest?

Welp, try again. I cant dumb it down any further for you. And believe me, i always try to dumb it down for you, because spending pages explaining to you what was said and what wasn't, to sustain your delusions of winning arguments, is pure torture.

 

[ding]

That's so you to make a claim from emotion and not be able to actually explain the basis for that emotion

Useless rhetorical garbage. You are trying to waste my time. Go back and reread, you will find the answers.

I did go back and read it. Nope. It;s not there. You make an unsubstantiated claim and when asked to substantiate it... you decline. How is that not dishonest?

Welp, try again. I cant dumb it down any further for you. And believe me, i always try to dumb it down for you, because spending pages explaining to you what was said and what wasn't, to sustain your delusions of winning arguments, is pure torture.

Dumbing it down would be improvement over not explaining anything.

What Christian dogma is it that you think is different from Christian to Christian?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

That's so you to make a claim from emotion and not be able to actually explain the basis for that emotion

Useless rhetorical garbage. You are trying to waste my time. Go back and reread, you will find the answers.

I did go back and read it. Nope. It;s not there. You make an unsubstantiated claim and when asked to substantiate it... you decline. How is that not dishonest?

Welp, try again. I cant dumb it down any further for you. And believe me, i always try to dumb it down for you, because spending pages explaining to you what was said and what wasn't, to sustain your delusions of winning arguments, is pure torture.

Dumbing it down would be improvement over not explaining anything.

What Christian dogma is it that you think is different from Christian to Christian?

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

I am not your assistant. Make your points.

 

[ding]

That's so you to make a claim from emotion and not be able to actually explain the basis for that emotion

Useless rhetorical garbage. You are trying to waste my time. Go back and reread, you will find the answers.

I did go back and read it. Nope. It;s not there. You make an unsubstantiated claim and when asked to substantiate it... you decline. How is that not dishonest?

Welp, try again. I cant dumb it down any further for you. And believe me, i always try to dumb it down for you, because spending pages explaining to you what was said and what wasn't, to sustain your delusions of winning arguments, is pure torture.

Dumbing it down would be improvement over not explaining anything.

What Christian dogma is it that you think is different from Christian to Christian?

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

I am not your assistant. Make your points.

It's like you don't even remember what your claim was. You know, what I took exception with.

 

[Grumblenuts]

If we assume that everything is just an accidental coincidence

As opposed to an intentional coincidence?

of the properties of matter, the logical conclusion is that matter and energy are just doing what matter and energy do which makes sense. The problem is that for matter and energy to do what matter and energy do, there has to be rules in place for matter and energy to obey.

Otherwise you'd be lost?

The formation of space and time followed rules.

Apparently because saying so makes you feel all warm fuzzy.

Specifically the law of conservation and quantum mechanics.

The what?

These laws existed before space and time and defined the potential of everything which was possible.

What?

These laws are no thing.

Goo goo gaga.

So we literally have an example of no thing existing before the material world. The creation of space and time from nothing is literally correct. Space and time were created from no thing. Spirit is no thing. No thing created space and time.

This "no thing" wacko narrative gets a tad closer to arguing from an Aether based standpoint. But relies upon some godmustadidit here, quantum mechanicsmustadidit there, lawsmustadidit over here,.. Pretty silly pile of wishful thinking.

Try answering this question from something I linked yesterday.. Mainstream physics teaches that light, say a laser beam traveling through air or "space" for instance, reflects, refracts, and slows down upon encountering glass. Then it instantly speeds back up to nearly the speed of light in "a vacuum" upon exiting the glass. Correct? Does that happen? How's that happen? Or, in other common parlance, why's that happen? What motivates the light to speed back up again.. from comparatively "nothing"? Could it be Satan?

 

[ding]

As opposed to an intentional coincidence?

No. As opposed to intentional.

Otherwise you'd be lost?

No. Otherwise there would be no order within nature.

Apparently because saying so makes you feel all warm fuzzy.

No. Because it is possible for matter to have a beginning and still comply with the conservation of energy.

The what?

Quantum mechanics and conservation.

What?

See 2:58 mark

Goo goo gaga.

The laws of nature are no thing.

This "no thing" wacko narrative gets a tad closer to arguing from an Aether based standpoint. But relies upon some godmustadidit here, quantum mechanicsmustadidit there, lawsmustadidit over here,.. Pretty silly pile of wishful thinking.

Try answering this question from something I linked yesterday.. Mainstream physics teaches that light, say a laser beam traveling through air or "space" for instance, reflects, refracts, and slows down upon encountering glass. Then it instantly speeds back up to nearly the speed of light in "a vacuum" upon exiting the glass. Correct? Does that happen? How's that happen? Or, in other common parlance, why's that happen? What motivates the light to speed back up again.. from comparatively "nothing"? Could it be Satan?

I know it's hard for you to accept consciousness as the source of the material world, but it is being given serious consideration within the scientific community and has been for a long time.

Given that everything is made manifest by mind one must recognize that the physical world is entirely abstract and without ‘actuality’ apart from its linkage to consciousness. Mind, rather than emerging as a late outgrowth in the evolution of life, has existed always as the matrix, the source and condition of physical reality - that the stuff of which physical reality is composed is mind-stuff. It is Mind that has composed a physical universe that breeds life, and so eventually evolves creatures that know and create.

New hypothesis argues the universe simulates itself into existence

This article has been retracted.

bigthink.com

 

[emilynghiem]

Most people are handed their religious beliefs like an inheritance, something you are given as a family heirloom and never question. Consequently I believe that most of our everyday Christian beliefs are quite shallow. Even those who seem devout have never really given their religion the kind of attention it needs.

I come from a non religious family, with no religious relatives. Of course God was always there but simply as a picture on the wall, nothing to make it real. It was like getting up in the morning, you always do it but it hasn't any real meaning in your life.

Like so many high schoolers I began to question, but I began to question what I was not taught. Why was it that so many people seemed to believe in god and I did not? I began to read and would continue to do so for the next couple of decades.

I am not passing myself off as a bible scholar. Nor am I saying that those years were spent in intensive academic study, nothing like that. Now and then I would simply read books, mostly histories of biblical times that traced the evolution of Christian beliefs as events unfolded. The faith continues to evolve even today. It always seemed to be a question of "change or die", and change it did.

So unlike many true believers, who view the bible as a constant, I see the Bible being constantly "reinterpreted" in order not to fall victim to current events.

What the fanatics like fail to realize is that the Bible made less history than it followed. They go to "bibel collage" swallowing whole the dogma of their particular bent. Never realizing that the "never changing" faith they profess to hold bears little resemblance to the same faith of a couple hundred years ago. To question is to blaspheme and that is never good.

I am now finished questioning. It has been over for very long time. I still read now and again but it is pretty much over. Been there, done that. I have reached a conclusion and now all that matters is that I keep reasonably current. I try to pay attention to new thoughts but I don't need to constantly rehash the old.

I wish it had turned out otherwise. I really wanted to believe but I could not settle for blind belief. Everyone knows, or should know, that there is not one objective fact to support the existence of a god, any god.

I suppose, like most things, there are many routes to atheism. I have no idea. I only know a couple of people who say they are atheists. I know for sure that it is difficult for believers and atheists to have a civil discussion. I have no idea why that is. Perhaps because religion needs faith, blind faith, and it seems to me that an atheist must be a questioner.

Oddly enough, some of the best discussions I have had were with a Lutheran Pastor.

All I do know is that we should not put everyone in the same bag. There are good and bad people in every belief system. Some of the best folks I know are Christians. Some of the worst folks I know are Christians. As I said, I don't know enough atheists to matter.

So to all those of faith out there who use their beliefs to better their lives and the lives of others I say, "good for you". To all those who use their faith as a place to reinforce their hatreds and bigotry I say, "Damn you"!

Hi onecut39
1. First I don't think being a secular nontheist excludes people from faith in God and Christ, just because people express or see life and truth in different terms. It is still the same truth, just translated from Biblical symbols into secular meanings.
2. I believe the spiritual healing taught in Christianity can be proven by science and medicine to work, effectively safely and naturally, by degree of forgiveness that correlates to rate of success in healing.
This process can be quantified, observed or measured in secular terms, so no religious conditions are necessary.
3. Once people understand how forgiveness brings healing, this same process is basically the message in the Bible and Christianity.
I have had friends who are not Christian receive the spiritual healing prayers in Christ Jesus, and not convert to Christianity or change their beliefs. The healing process is independent of that, and just works by forgiveness to remove obstructions to natural health and healing to restore the mind-body connection.


Www.christianhealingmin.org

 

[Grumblenuts]

And ding attempts no response, as expected. Anyone else care to poke at it?

Try answering this question from something I linked yesterday.. Mainstream physics teaches that light, say a laser beam traveling through air or "space" for instance, reflects, refracts, and slows down upon encountering glass. Then it instantly speeds back up to nearly the speed of light in "a vacuum" upon exiting the glass. Correct? Does that happen? How's that happen? Or, in other common parlance, why's that happen? What motivates the light to speed back up again.. from comparatively "nothing"? Could it be Satan?

 

[Grumblenuts]

The OP is from back in January. Well worded. I can particularly relate to this bit:

Like so many high schoolers I began to question, but I began to question what I was not taught. Why was it that so many people seemed to believe in god and I did not? I began to read and would continue to do so for the next couple of decades.

and highly recommend the FFRF to the author. I found the reason why "so many people seemed to believe in god and I did not?" was simply vast cultural investment and indoctrination. "Best get 'em while they're young" sounds like a funny cliché, but it's sadly not. Luckily, I was spared much of that childhood abuse, but being allowed to remain a freethinker earned me some serious reality slaps once in HS, college, and beyond. Adult authority figures and peers began pushing me out of their spheres.

One of the least mentioned, yet seemingly most influential, reasons for just giving in and pretending to have religious belief is business. Far easier to get work in a Bible thumping community if you just play along. Abuse yourself, in other words, weighing the stress of white-lying to your bosses and coworkers on a daily basis against your need to productively function. There are company get togethers, work related contacts, church meetings, weddings, and so forth. All possibly unavoidable for those having bills to pay. None being what one would choose for themselves otherwise.

Phony baloney. Granted, many kids find the increased regimentation helpful. The false pretense seems equally apt to damage them in my experience. Overall, pretty sick stuff, culturally speaking.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

That's so you to make a claim from emotion and not be able to actually explain the basis for that emotion

Useless rhetorical garbage. You are trying to waste my time. Go back and reread, you will find the answers.

I did go back and read it. Nope. It;s not there. You make an unsubstantiated claim and when asked to substantiate it... you decline. How is that not dishonest?

Welp, try again. I cant dumb it down any further for you. And believe me, i always try to dumb it down for you, because spending pages explaining to you what was said and what wasn't, to sustain your delusions of winning arguments, is pure torture.

Dumbing it down would be improvement over not explaining anything.

What Christian dogma is it that you think is different from Christian to Christian?

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

I am not your assistant. Make your points.

It's like you don't even remember what your claim was. You know, what I took exception with.

Neato!

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

And ding attempts no response, as expected. Anyone else care to poke at it?

Try answering this question from something I linked yesterday.. Mainstream physics teaches that light, say a laser beam traveling through air or "space" for instance, reflects, refracts, and slows down upon encountering glass. Then it instantly speeds back up to nearly the speed of light in "a vacuum" upon exiting the glass. Correct? Does that happen? How's that happen? Or, in other common parlance, why's that happen? What motivates the light to speed back up again.. from comparatively "nothing"? Could it be Satan?

Yes, a neat question. The speed of light itself remains unchanged. The photons always travel at the speed of light. But in a denser medium, they spend more time being absorbed and re-emitted, causing the "wave" itself to spend more time traversing the space.

 

[ding]

That's so you to make a claim from emotion and not be able to actually explain the basis for that emotion

Useless rhetorical garbage. You are trying to waste my time. Go back and reread, you will find the answers.

I did go back and read it. Nope. It;s not there. You make an unsubstantiated claim and when asked to substantiate it... you decline. How is that not dishonest?

Welp, try again. I cant dumb it down any further for you. And believe me, i always try to dumb it down for you, because spending pages explaining to you what was said and what wasn't, to sustain your delusions of winning arguments, is pure torture.

Dumbing it down would be improvement over not explaining anything.

What Christian dogma is it that you think is different from Christian to Christian?

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

I am not your assistant. Make your points.

It's like you don't even remember what your claim was. You know, what I took exception with.

Neato!

But I remember it.

 

[Grumblenuts]

And ding attempts no response, as expected. Anyone else care to poke at it?

Try answering this question from something I linked yesterday.. Mainstream physics teaches that light, say a laser beam traveling through air or "space" for instance, reflects, refracts, and slows down upon encountering glass. Then it instantly speeds back up to nearly the speed of light in "a vacuum" upon exiting the glass. Correct? Does that happen? How's that happen? Or, in other common parlance, why's that happen? What motivates the light to speed back up again.. from comparatively "nothing"? Could it be Satan?

Yes, a neat question. The speed of light itself remains unchanged. The photons always travel at the speed of light. But in a denser medium, they spend more time being absorbed and re-emitted, causing the "wave" itself to spend more time traversing the space.

Okay, so these constant speed photons get "absorbed and re-emitted" a lot. How do these new, "re-emitted" ones know which way to go after being "absorbed"? Why wouldn't they just fly out in a non-synchronous manner and in more or less random directions? How much sense does your response make?