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I have to agree, as much as I dislike religion,Throughout our nation's history, churches have done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility. Moral and civil individuals are largely governed by their own sense of right and wrong, and hence have little need for external government. This is the real reason the collectivist Left hates religion: Churches as institutions compete with the state for the people's allegiance, and many devout people put their faith in God before putting their faith in the state. Knowing this, the secularists wage an ongoing war against religion, chipping away bit by bit at our nation's Christian heritage.What page is the Bible turned to? What passage from the Bible showing? What? It's a Bible because you say so?Of course you do and you don't see any reference to God in the Declaration of Independence either, lol.He is? What page is it turned to? What passage? All I see is a book.How about the mural of "The Embarkation of the Pilgrims" in the United States Capitol Rotunda? Egads! He is holding a Bible!. Is that ok, or should that be taken down too?Ahhh, but you see, you want us all to forget about post #1777 - the specific post to which I responded - where you expanded that to include all religious people: "So it is ok for your values to inform your vote, but not religious people?"
So, you are saying that Christians vote their Christian agenda. Further, even in your original post you are, at the very least, admitting that you are voting for a theocracy. "I vote my values, and my faith informs my values". You want your faith to be the governing factor of the government. That is a theocracy.
View attachment 115340
Dr. Ron Paul
Really? You think their works remind you of cartoons?Reminds me of the basis of CARTOONS, what most artists based their artworks on, From da Vinci and Michelangelo onward. All of them had biblical influences, De Vinci an Michelangelo were also gay. Doing biblical tropes, ironic as hell.How about the mural of "Landing of Columbus" in the United States Capitol Rotunda? Good Lord, I see a cross! Is that ok, or should that be taken down too?Ahhh, but you see, you want us all to forget about post #1777 - the specific post to which I responded - where you expanded that to include all religious people: "So it is ok for your values to inform your vote, but not religious people?"I literally could not have made it any clearer. If you want to see this as me back pedaling, please go right ahead. It seems to me that you want to void my right to vote because I believe in God.Yes, you were. And now you want to back pedal because you didn't like being called out for it.
In post # 100 I wrote, "My values inform my vote and my faith informs my values. I don't forfeit my right to participate in governance anymore than you do. "
In post # 143 I wrote, "I don't want a theocracy anymore than I want to forget our Christian heritage. Both would be bad."
So, you are saying that Christians vote their Christian agenda. Further, even in your original post you are, at the very least, admitting that you are voting for a theocracy. "I vote my values, and my faith informs my values". You want your faith to be the governing factor of the government. That is a theocracy.
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Maybe you prefer this kind of art instead.
A cartoon is basically an outline, a sketch and basic artistic outline, that's all it ever was, not a Bugs bunny animation or cute drawing in the funny papers like you ignoramuses think. Not anymore than Jesus is Superman. Not Ubermench from a Wagnerian opera.Reminds me of the basis of CARTOONS, what most artists based their artworks on, From da Vinci and Michelangelo onward. All of them had biblical influences, De Vinci an Michelangelo were also gay. Doing biblical tropes, ironic as hell.How about the mural of "Landing of Columbus" in the United States Capitol Rotunda? Good Lord, I see a cross! Is that ok, or should that be taken down too?Ahhh, but you see, you want us all to forget about post #1777 - the specific post to which I responded - where you expanded that to include all religious people: "So it is ok for your values to inform your vote, but not religious people?"I literally could not have made it any clearer. If you want to see this as me back pedaling, please go right ahead. It seems to me that you want to void my right to vote because I believe in God.Yes, you were. And now you want to back pedal because you didn't like being called out for it.If you really do have a PhD, it shouldn't be that hard for you to figure out what I meant. I was quite clear.
In post # 100 I wrote, "My values inform my vote and my faith informs my values. I don't forfeit my right to participate in governance anymore than you do. "
In post # 143 I wrote, "I don't want a theocracy anymore than I want to forget our Christian heritage. Both would be bad."
So, you are saying that Christians vote their Christian agenda. Further, even in your original post you are, at the very least, admitting that you are voting for a theocracy. "I vote my values, and my faith informs my values". You want your faith to be the governing factor of the government. That is a theocracy.
View attachment 115338
I see this question asked by religious folk frequently. I do disagree with some of the harsher anti-religious sentiments, at least as far as tone is concerned, but I understand exactly where those attitudes come from. Christians (speaking from the USA) have a harder time seeing the hold their religion has on our society and the actual harm it can do. When they are faced with the topic of crimes and abuses committed by other Christians, I commonly hear that the perpetrators were not "true Christians."
What is a true Christian? If a person, even if they are a criminal or an abuser (or, heck, just a run-of-the-mill wacko), professes belief in Jesus as the son of God and the savior of humanity, and accepts the Bible, then are they not a Christian? When asked how to become a Christian, is that not exactly what one is told? "To accept Jesus Christ in your heart, as your Lord, and Saviour"? The same people who are quick to point out that others are not true Christians are, more often than not, just as quick to point out the beliefs of other wrongdoers - Muslims and so-called "Satanists," for example. All people are capable of committing crimes, regardless of belief, but those who commit them in the name of their religion should not be ignored or brushed off as "not true believers." Just as it provides light and hope to some, there is a dark side to religion that people should acknowledge, too.
So back to the question of why atheists are so "toxic." Some among us have been hurt and abused by religion and religious people. Many see the religious attempting, at the expense of other people, to impose their standards of morality on others through law and social norms. Why are we told we need to "respect the beliefs of others" when ours are denigrated?
These areas are for us to freely vent our frustrations, as well as share our experiences with others of like mind. Atheists should not have to be polite about religion even in a space made for themselves. Certainly people should be able to freely believe what they like in their homes and in their hearts, but that doesn't mean religion should be free from criticism, and it doesn't mean religion is 100% good all the time. Nothing is.
Keep in mind, this is a forum for Religion and Ethics. Like it, or not, the question of ethics does not belong solely to either the religious, not to any one particular religion.
I think what is meant by the question, is not so much, "Why are atheists so toxic", so much as why are they so...acerbic? You have to admit that many of us do tend to get a bit...quarrelsome with Christians, at times.Toxic?
If atheists were so toxic why are they the fastest growing "religious" affiliation in the west?
We know what's toxic, it ain't secular life
We don't spend our time trying to shit on the descendants of some one we view as our savior. (Jesus was Palestinian)
I think what is meant by the question, is not so much, "Why are atheists so toxic", so much as why are they so...acerbic? You have to admit that many of us do tend to get a bit...quarrelsome with Christians, at times.Toxic?
If atheists were so toxic why are they the fastest growing "religious" affiliation in the west?
We know what's toxic, it ain't secular life
We don't spend our time trying to shit on the descendants of some one we view as our savior. (Jesus was Palestinian)
1. They wrote into the constitution the earliest date they could abolish importation.
2. They abolished importation on it's earliest date.
3. They passed the NW Ordinance which prevented any new slave states/territories
4. Two witnesses corroborate that the Founders believed it was evil and intended for it to end.
5. One witness tells us it was common knowledge and in publications of the day.
What do you have?
You do realize I'm not paying attention to what you are writing, right? My point has been made, I'm quite happy resting my case.
Yeah. The point at which he flat out said he was ignoring me, and just spamming posts, was when he earned his place on my ignore list, so I don't even have to read his rambling expositions on the virtues of Christianity, and his blathering diatribes against atheism.You do realize I'm not paying attention to what you are writing, right? My point has been made, I'm quite happy resting my case.
What point was that? I don't think anybody knows. I've read all your posts, and I haven't seen you get to any point.
If you've got an actual point to make, you should try making it clearly, instead of just rambling on and on about nothing, and then declaring victory. You'll look like less of a loser troll that way.
Oh bullshit! You're the one who believes in invisible all powerful gods.czerbog seems perfectly rational and logical and I'm not high yet.And a liar. As near as I can tell he is a borderline sociopath.I reacted the way I did because you are dishonest. You attack Christianity, then try to pretend that you are not, in fact, doing so. You try to deceive others. I am familiar with your type. You aren't fooling anyone. You are simply a fool.Actually, it does. Col 4:5 & 6. You should read it sometime. Funny how the "Fool" knows this, but the "Christian" doesn't...The Bible doesn't say I have to be nice to you. Besides, you have a reprobate mind. It doesn't matter what I say, or how nicely I say it. You will continue to reject God.Yeah, coming from a guy who starts every post insulting the person he is trying to tell what Christianity is "supposed" to be about"? Yeah, I think you're full of shit.Fool! Show me where the Bible tells Christians to act like muslims, or any other violent group. You can't. Actions speak louder than words. Look at what Scripture says. That is how Christians should act. If they do not, they are not Christians. The Koran, on the other hand, tells them to convert or kill the entire world. One preaches love, the other preaches violence. Why can't you see this? You must be deliberately obtuse.
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And a liar and sociopath.You do realize I'm not paying attention to what you are writing, right? My point has been made, I'm quite happy resting my case.
What point was that? I don't think anybody knows. I've read all your posts, and I haven't seen you get to any point.
If you've got an actual point to make, you should try making it clearly, instead of just rambling on and on about nothing, and then declaring victory. You'll look like less of a loser troll that way.
True. Have you ever seen a lawyer use the bible in court as evidence someone did wrong?Yeah...That's just repeating the same question you had already asked, and I had already answered in post #133, & #145. The language in the DOI is non-specific deism. That is not religion specific. God is.You mean you didn't see what I wrote? That figures. Here you go.Yes. You did reply, and, well...Yes, you did and my reply to that was in post #150. I don't need to add anything else. I'm not the one who has the incongruity.I told you exactly how you were wrong. And copying the DOI to your post doesn't make you any less wrong, nor does it refute either of the points made in my post explaining how you are wrong.How can I be wrong?
Simply posting the Declaration of Independence, has absolutely nothing to do with either of the points I made in my post.
How can I be wrong? I'm not the one who wants to remove all references of God from government. You guys are the ones wanting to do that. What exactly do you suppose Creator is? You are literally arguing to keep the reference of God in the DOI. Have you even ever read the DOI? How about Divine Providence? Is that Ok too? How about Nature's God? Is that ok now too?
First, God is not nearly as vague as "Creator" or "Divine Providence", and "Nature's God" specifically is a reference to Deism, not any theistic religion, such as Christianity. Ask 100 people what religion refers to God, capital "G", and I promise you, the overwhelming majority, if not nearly all, will tell you Judeo-Christianity, I don't care how you want to equivocate. Ask those same 100 what religion refers to "their creator", and the answer will be much more varied.
Second, regardless of how much importance you may wish to assign it, try using the DOI, as a document in a court of law as precedence over an law or constitutional precedence. It is not a governing document of our government. Period.
What about you?People who focus on Heaven miss the point. The point is the journey, not the destination. If you were happy with your journey, you wouldn't be here arguing about something you don't believe in just to amuse yourself. You would have better things to do.Do you believe only Christians go to heaven? Be honest. Don't deceive usI reacted the way I did because you are dishonest. You attack Christianity, then try to pretend that you are not, in fact, doing so. You try to deceive others. I am familiar with your type. You aren't fooling anyone. You are simply a fool.Actually, it does. Col 4:5 & 6. You should read it sometime. Funny how the "Fool" knows this, but the "Christian" doesn't...The Bible doesn't say I have to be nice to you. Besides, you have a reprobate mind. It doesn't matter what I say, or how nicely I say it. You will continue to reject God.Who are you trying to convince? Me or you?So, who made GOD if everything needs a maker? Often wondered about that little ditty since I was a little girl. he pulled himself out of his hat? Or maybe, the universe always existed and never needed a maker? Who knows? Who cares? Religion is a man made construct trying to understand how the universe works, and that is Ok, as long as you don't take it to seriously.See post #98 for the proof you are so sorely seeking. Can I use something you created as evidence? When you create something is your creation the realization of your intention? When you create something do you do it in steps? Do your more complex creations require more steps and intelligence? Can I tell why you created it Can I tell what it's purpose is? Do you believe it is the nature of intelligence to create intelligence?Atheist are at heart, skeptics, You make an assertion, you better be able to prove it. You believe there is a god, great, prove it. I WANT to believe in a god, any god. But the proof people put out there is just so much bullshit. Sell me, I want to proof. No sophism. Where is god now a days?
You have all the proof you need.
That is if there is a heaven, and depends on what brand of lellogs corn fa
Jolly good post. I would rather believe in God,as much as you. Where is god? Why is GOD so coy? I love religion, but religion fails on so many levels, it boggles the mind.Who are you trying to convince? Me or you?So, who made GOD if everything needs a maker? Often wondered about that little ditty since I was a little girl. he pulled himself out of his hat? Or maybe, the universe always existed and never needed a maker? Who knows? Who cares? Religion is a man made construct trying to understand how the universe works, and that is Ok, as long as you don't take it to seriously.See post #98 for the proof you are so sorely seeking. Can I use something you created as evidence? When you create something is your creation the realization of your intention? When you create something do you do it in steps? Do your more complex creations require more steps and intelligence? Can I tell why you created it Can I tell what it's purpose is? Do you believe it is the nature of intelligence to create intelligence?Atheist are at heart, skeptics, You make an assertion, you better be able to prove it. You believe there is a god, great, prove it. I WANT to believe in a god, any god. But the proof people put out there is just so much bullshit. Sell me, I want to proof. No sophism. Where is god now a days?
You have all the proof you need.
I'll ask you the same questionWho are you trying to convince? Me or you?So, who made GOD if everything needs a maker? Often wondered about that little ditty since I was a little girl. he pulled himself out of his hat? Or maybe, the universe always existed and never needed a maker? Who knows? Who cares? Religion is a man made construct trying to understand how the universe works, and that is Ok, as long as you don't take it to seriously.See post #98 for the proof you are so sorely seeking. Can I use something you created as evidence? When you create something is your creation the realization of your intention? When you create something do you do it in steps? Do your more complex creations require more steps and intelligence? Can I tell why you created it Can I tell what it's purpose is? Do you believe it is the nature of intelligence to create intelligence?Atheist are at heart, skeptics, You make an assertion, you better be able to prove it. You believe there is a god, great, prove it. I WANT to believe in a god, any god. But the proof people put out there is just so much bullshit. Sell me, I want to proof. No sophism. Where is god now a days?Thanks for speaking for us. You're a stand up guy. Actually I would say there is meaning in suffering if it forces a change for the better, but what you said sounded real intelligent too.Haven't you had any good times?
A religious person would tell you that God won't be there when you call if you only call when you need something.
You have all the proof you need.
So then you don't believe that the Founding Fathers believed that slavery was against the Law of Nature and intended for it to perish? Is that correct?1. They wrote into the constitution the earliest date they could abolish importation.
2. They abolished importation on it's earliest date.
3. They passed the NW Ordinance which prevented any new slave states/territories
4. Two witnesses corroborate that the Founders believed it was evil and intended for it to end.
5. One witness tells us it was common knowledge and in publications of the day.
What do you have?
The simple fact that half the founders owned slaves. That completely annihilates your claim that the founders as a group were anti-slavery.
Maybe you can explain it for us. How are slave owners anti-slavery? It seems the bare minimum to be an anti-slavery person would be to not own slaves yourself, right?
That he was selective on what offended him.You do realize I'm not paying attention to what you are writing, right? My point has been made, I'm quite happy resting my case.
What point was that? I don't think anybody knows. I've read all your posts, and I haven't seen you get to any point.
If you've got an actual point to make, you should try making it clearly, instead of just rambling on and on about nothing, and then declaring victory. You'll look like less of a loser troll that way.
Of course that was how you saw it.Yeah. The point at which he flat out said he was ignoring me, and just spamming posts, was when he earned his place on my ignore list, so I don't even have to read his rambling expositions on the virtues of Christianity, and his blathering diatribes against atheism.You do realize I'm not paying attention to what you are writing, right? My point has been made, I'm quite happy resting my case.
What point was that? I don't think anybody knows. I've read all your posts, and I haven't seen you get to any point.
If you've got an actual point to make, you should try making it clearly, instead of just rambling on and on about nothing, and then declaring victory. You'll look like less of a loser troll that way.
Do you believe he has a PhD in Psychiatry? The guy is pathological, but if you want to swallow his crap, be my guest. The joke is on you.Oh bullshit! You're the one who believes in invisible all powerful gods.czerbog seems perfectly rational and logical and I'm not high yet.And a liar. As near as I can tell he is a borderline sociopath.I reacted the way I did because you are dishonest. You attack Christianity, then try to pretend that you are not, in fact, doing so. You try to deceive others. I am familiar with your type. You aren't fooling anyone. You are simply a fool.Actually, it does. Col 4:5 & 6. You should read it sometime. Funny how the "Fool" knows this, but the "Christian" doesn't...The Bible doesn't say I have to be nice to you. Besides, you have a reprobate mind. It doesn't matter what I say, or how nicely I say it. You will continue to reject God.Yeah, coming from a guy who starts every post insulting the person he is trying to tell what Christianity is "supposed" to be about"? Yeah, I think you're full of shit.
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You don't like him because he won't back down.
Where has he lied? What would make him a sociopath?
