"Why are atheists so toxic"

[MaryL]

I like god, my most favorite invisible friend. Always there when I pray, least responsive when I need him. I am a pathetic atheist. I want to believe in god, any god. he/she/ them never seems to be there when I need em'. Where are you, GOD?

Haven't you had any good times?

A religious person would tell you that God won't be there when you call if you only call when you need something.

I figured that out, even Mother Teresa had her dark days of doubt that lasted decades until her death. We are all closet atheists, even the pope or the worse muslin terrorist that wants all those virgins, even they doubt all that dogmatic bullshit. It makes them stronger believers. And the rest of us so much MORE skeptical .

 

[sealybobo]

I like god, my most favorite invisible friend. Always there when I pray, least responsive when I need him. I am a pathetic atheist. I want to believe in god, any god. he/she/ them never seems to be there when I need em'. Where are you, GOD?

Haven't you had any good times?

A religious person would tell you that God won't be there when you call if you only call when you need something.

I figured that out, even Mother Teresa had her dark days of doubt that lasted decades until her death. We are all closet atheists, even the pope or the worse muslin terrorist that wants all those virgins, even they doubt all that dogmatic bullshit. It makes them stronger believers. And the rest of us so much MORE skeptical .

I'm happy to see less and less people believing something that doesn't make sense.

But on the other hand if there were too many of us offending their God they might feel inclined to do something about it.

I think most people who believe in God should be left alone. But anyone coming here is asking to have the discussion.
Anyone here who believes but has doubts needs to think it all the way through. If it doesn't make sense don't believe it. It's not good to be guilted or feared into believing

 

[ding]

No. They haven't. That is wishful thinking on your part. Let me know when they abolish religion and belief in God.

You seem to think that the goal of secular government is to abolish religion. It isn't. It is to remove the influence of religion from governance of society, which is what those nations have successfully done. I look forward to the day that we achieve that.

Nope. Secular government, at least those that will last, will allow people to worship, or not worship as they wish. It is only progressive, militant atheists who are pushing for the abolishment of religion. And it is those governments that have also inflicted the most atrocious acts of mass murder the world has ever seen.

Sure. That's what I am saying. I don't want to abolish religion. I want to abolish religious governance. There's a difference. And whether anyone wants to admit it, or not, we are still infected, at all levels, with religious influence in our government. It is that influence atheists want removed. We could care less about religious practice.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Right, you just want to subordinate it until it ceases to exist. What part of it is impossible to separate one's faith from their values do you not understand? So it is ok for your values to inform your vote, but not religious people?

So, you are saying that Christians, in fact, are trying to empower a theocracy with their votes? What a bold admission.

That was an astonishing leap in logic you just made there. Don't be silly. I don't want a theocracy anymore than I want to forget our Christian heritage. Both would be bad.

 

[ding]

I like god, my most favorite invisible friend. Always there when I pray, least responsive when I need him. I am a pathetic atheist. I want to believe in god, any god. he/she/ them never seems to be there when I need em'. Where are you, GOD?

Haven't you had any good times?

A religious person would tell you that God won't be there when you call if you only call when you need something.

Thanks for speaking for us. You're a stand up guy. Actually I would say there is meaning in suffering if it forces a change for the better, but what you said sounded real intelligent too.

 

[Czernobog]

Would you like to edit the DOI as well?

DOI?

Declaration of Independence

Ah. The DOI was influenced by Christianity. It had undertones of non-specific Deism. There is a bit of a difference. And while I find it annoying, since the DOI is not a governing document of the United States, I really could care less about the language used therein.

It is a vague about religion as that 100 dollar bill. If you object to that, I don't why you wouldn't object to the DOI. You do realize that the DOI is of way more importance than currency, right? It is literally our founding document and it states that we get our rights for no other reason than we are God's creatures. Why don't you have a problem with that again?

Wrong on two counts. First, it is not nearly as vague. Ask 100 people what religion refers to God, capital "G", and I promise you, the overwhelming majority, if not nearly all, will tell you Judeo-Christianity, I don't care how you want to equivocate. Ask those same 100 what religion refers to "their creator", and the answer will be much more varied.

Second, regardless of how much importance you may wish to assign it, try using the DOI, as a document in a court of law as precedence over an law or constitutional precedence. It is not a governing document of our government. Period.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

 

[Czernobog]

You seem to think that the goal of secular government is to abolish religion. It isn't. It is to remove the influence of religion from governance of society, which is what those nations have successfully done. I look forward to the day that we achieve that.

Nope. Secular government, at least those that will last, will allow people to worship, or not worship as they wish. It is only progressive, militant atheists who are pushing for the abolishment of religion. And it is those governments that have also inflicted the most atrocious acts of mass murder the world has ever seen.

Sure. That's what I am saying. I don't want to abolish religion. I want to abolish religious governance. There's a difference. And whether anyone wants to admit it, or not, we are still infected, at all levels, with religious influence in our government. It is that influence atheists want removed. We could care less about religious practice.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Right, you just want to subordinate it until it ceases to exist. What part of it is impossible to separate one's faith from their values do you not understand? So it is ok for your values to inform your vote, but not religious people?

So, you are saying that Christians, in fact, are trying to empower a theocracy with their votes? What a bold admission.

That was an astonishing leap in logic you just made there. Don't be silly. I don't want a theocracy anymore than I want to forget our Christian heritage. Both would be bad.

Well, you are the one who claimed that religious people are voting based on their religious convictions. Do you stand by that statement, or not?

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

 

[ding]

I like god, my most favorite invisible friend. Always there when I pray, least responsive when I need him. I am a pathetic atheist. I want to believe in god, any god. he/she/ them never seems to be there when I need em'. Where are you, GOD?

Haven't you had any good times?

A religious person would tell you that God won't be there when you call if you only call when you need something.

I figured that out, even Mother Teresa had her dark days of doubt that lasted decades until her death. We are all closet atheists, even the pope or the worse muslin terrorist that wants all those virgins, even they doubt all that dogmatic bullshit. It makes them stronger believers. And the rest of us so much MORE skeptical .

Some skepticism can be healthy, too much can be destructive. The only thing you can't get too much of is balance. I can see why atheism is so attractive to you guys, you have such deep intellectually stimulating conversations. But sure, God probably believes most of us don't believe He exists. Think about it. If you really believed there was an omnipotent omnipresent being who willed the universe into existence, would we really do the things that we do? There are three possible states; I can be moving towards God, I can be moving away from God or I can be static. It is a journey.

But putting that aside, you guys have prayer all backwards. Didn't you guys watch Evan Almighty?

 

[ding]

Nope. Secular government, at least those that will last, will allow people to worship, or not worship as they wish. It is only progressive, militant atheists who are pushing for the abolishment of religion. And it is those governments that have also inflicted the most atrocious acts of mass murder the world has ever seen.

Sure. That's what I am saying. I don't want to abolish religion. I want to abolish religious governance. There's a difference. And whether anyone wants to admit it, or not, we are still infected, at all levels, with religious influence in our government. It is that influence atheists want removed. We could care less about religious practice.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Right, you just want to subordinate it until it ceases to exist. What part of it is impossible to separate one's faith from their values do you not understand? So it is ok for your values to inform your vote, but not religious people?

So, you are saying that Christians, in fact, are trying to empower a theocracy with their votes? What a bold admission.

That was an astonishing leap in logic you just made there. Don't be silly. I don't want a theocracy anymore than I want to forget our Christian heritage. Both would be bad.

We'll, you are the one who claimed that religious people are voting based on their religious convictions. Do you stand by that statement, or not?

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

If you really do have a PhD, it shouldn't be that hard for you to figure out what I meant. I was quite clear.

 

[MaryL]

I like god, my most favorite invisible friend. Always there when I pray, least responsive when I need him. I am a pathetic atheist. I want to believe in god, any god. he/she/ them never seems to be there when I need em'. Where are you, GOD?

Haven't you had any good times?

A religious person would tell you that God won't be there when you call if you only call when you need something.

Thanks for speaking for us. You're a stand up guy. Actually I would say there is meaning in suffering if it forces a change for the better, but what you said sounded real intelligent too.

Atheist are at heart, skeptics, You make an assertion, you better be able to prove it. You believe there is a god, great, prove it. I WANT to believe in a god, any god. But the proof people put out there is just so much bullshit. Sell me, I want to proof. No sophism. Where is god now a days?

 

[ding]

Would you like to edit the DOI as well?

DOI?

Declaration of Independence

Ah. The DOI was influenced by Christianity. It had undertones of non-specific Deism. There is a bit of a difference. And while I find it annoying, since the DOI is not a governing document of the United States, I really could care less about the language used therein.

It is a vague about religion as that 100 dollar bill. If you object to that, I don't why you wouldn't object to the DOI. You do realize that the DOI is of way more importance than currency, right? It is literally our founding document and it states that we get our rights for no other reason than we are God's creatures. Why don't you have a problem with that again?

Wrong on two counts. First, it is not nearly as vague. Ask 100 people what religion refers to God, capital "G", and I promise you, the overwhelming majority, if not nearly all, will tell you Judeo-Christianity, I don't care how you want to equivocate. Ask those same 100 what religion refers to "their creator", and the answer will be much more varied.

Second, regardless of how much importance you may wish to assign it, try using the DOI, as a document in a court of law as precedence over an law or constitutional precedence. It is not a governing document of our government. Period.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

How can I be wrong? I'm not the one who wants to remove all references of God from government. You guys are the ones wanting to do that. What exactly do you suppose Creator is? You are literally arguing to keep the reference of God in the DOI. Have you even ever read the DOI? How about Divine Providence? Is that Ok too? How about Nature's God? Is that ok now too?

IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America

hen in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their Public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected, whereby the Legislative Powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

He has obstructed the Administration of Justice by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers.

He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.

He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:

For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:

For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies

For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:

For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.

He has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.

He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.

He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.

He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our British brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these united Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States, that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. — And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.

 

[Czernobog]

Sure. That's what I am saying. I don't want to abolish religion. I want to abolish religious governance. There's a difference. And whether anyone wants to admit it, or not, we are still infected, at all levels, with religious influence in our government. It is that influence atheists want removed. We could care less about religious practice.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Right, you just want to subordinate it until it ceases to exist. What part of it is impossible to separate one's faith from their values do you not understand? So it is ok for your values to inform your vote, but not religious people?

So, you are saying that Christians, in fact, are trying to empower a theocracy with their votes? What a bold admission.

That was an astonishing leap in logic you just made there. Don't be silly. I don't want a theocracy anymore than I want to forget our Christian heritage. Both would be bad.

We'll, you are the one who claimed that religious people are voting based on their religious convictions. Do you stand by that statement, or not?

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

If you really do have a PhD, it shouldn't be that hard for you to figure out what I meant. I was quite clear.

Yes, you were. And now you want to back pedal because you didn't like being called out for it.

 

[sealybobo]

I like god, my most favorite invisible friend. Always there when I pray, least responsive when I need him. I am a pathetic atheist. I want to believe in god, any god. he/she/ them never seems to be there when I need em'. Where are you, GOD?

Haven't you had any good times?

A religious person would tell you that God won't be there when you call if you only call when you need something.

Thanks for speaking for us. You're a stand up guy. Actually I would say there is meaning in suffering if it forces a change for the better, but what you said sounded real intelligent too.

Atheist are at heart, skeptics, You make an assertion, you better be able to prove it. You believe there is a god, great, prove it. I WANT to believe in a god, any god. But the proof people put out there is just so much bullshit. Sell me, I want to proof. No sophism. Where is god now a days?

First I think religions need to admit every story they tell are allegories. God didn't talk to Joe Smith, Mohammad, moses and even Jesus was just a richious dude.

Then I would be a lot less sarcastic.

 

[MaryL]

DOI?

Declaration of Independence

Ah. The DOI was influenced by Christianity. It had undertones of non-specific Deism. There is a bit of a difference. And while I find it annoying, since the DOI is not a governing document of the United States, I really could care less about the language used therein.

It is a vague about religion as that 100 dollar bill. If you object to that, I don't why you wouldn't object to the DOI. You do realize that the DOI is of way more importance than currency, right? It is literally our founding document and it states that we get our rights for no other reason than we are God's creatures. Why don't you have a problem with that again?

Wrong on two counts. First, it is not nearly as vague. Ask 100 people what religion refers to God, capital "G", and I promise you, the overwhelming majority, if not nearly all, will tell you Judeo-Christianity, I don't care how you want to equivocate. Ask those same 100 what religion refers to "their creator", and the answer will be much more varied.

Second, regardless of how much importance you may wish to assign it, try using the DOI, as a document in a court of law as precedence over an law or constitutional precedence. It is not a governing document of our government. Period.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

How can I be wrong? I'm not the one who wants to remove all references of God from government. You guys are the ones wanting to do that. What exactly do you suppose Creator is? You are literally arguing to keep the reference of God in the DOI. Have you even ever read the DOI? How about Divine Providence? Is that Ok too? How about Nature's God? Is that ok now too?

IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America

hen in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their Public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected, whereby the Legislative Powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

He has obstructed the Administration of Justice by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers.

He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.

He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:

For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:

For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies

For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:

For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.

He has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.

He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.

He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.

He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our British brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these united Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States, that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. — And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.

Nice, but still empty sophism. Prove god exists. I want to see God here, with out any doubts. I hope that isn't to much to ask.

 

[ding]

I like god, my most favorite invisible friend. Always there when I pray, least responsive when I need him. I am a pathetic atheist. I want to believe in god, any god. he/she/ them never seems to be there when I need em'. Where are you, GOD?

Haven't you had any good times?

A religious person would tell you that God won't be there when you call if you only call when you need something.

Thanks for speaking for us. You're a stand up guy. Actually I would say there is meaning in suffering if it forces a change for the better, but what you said sounded real intelligent too.

Atheist are at heart, skeptics, You make an assertion, you better be able to prove it. You believe there is a god, great, prove it. I WANT to believe in a god, any god. But the proof people put out there is just so much bullshit. Sell me, I want to proof. No sophism. Where is god now a days?

See post #98 for the proof you are so sorely seeking. Can I use something you created as evidence? When you create something is your creation the realization of your intention? When you create something do you do it in steps? Do your more complex creations require more steps and intelligence? Can I tell why you created it Can I tell what it's purpose is? Do you believe it is the nature of intelligence to create intelligence?

You have all the proof you need.

 

[ding]

I like god, my most favorite invisible friend. Always there when I pray, least responsive when I need him. I am a pathetic atheist. I want to believe in god, any god. he/she/ them never seems to be there when I need em'. Where are you, GOD?

Haven't you had any good times?

A religious person would tell you that God won't be there when you call if you only call when you need something.

Thanks for speaking for us. You're a stand up guy. Actually I would say there is meaning in suffering if it forces a change for the better, but what you said sounded real intelligent too.

Atheist are at heart, skeptics, You make an assertion, you better be able to prove it. You believe there is a god, great, prove it. I WANT to believe in a god, any god. But the proof people put out there is just so much bullshit. Sell me, I want to proof. No sophism. Where is god now a days?

First I think religions need to admit every story they tell are allegories. God didn't talk to Joe Smith, Mohammad, moses and even Jesus was just a richious dude.

Then I would be a lot less sarcastic.

Be as sarcastic as you like. I am. You ever heard of google? You could always type in literary types of the Bible, you know. Do you really need to be spoon fed?

 

[RWNJ]

Don't be a fool. The Crusades were a response to Muslim aggression. The Inquisition was the result of a Pagan religion, disguised as Christianity. Regardless, the Bible does not condone what was done. In fact, it condemns it. The people responsible for the Inquisition were not Christians. They were evil. That is why they tortured and raped others. They enjoyed it. What does Scripture say about that?

and there it is, just as I pointed out in my opening post. whenever a Christian performs any act of violence, bigotry or hatefulness, eith it is justified, or it is demed to have been "not really a Christian". This is one of the reasons most of us Atheists have a modicum more respect - not much, but a tiny bit - for Muslims than we do Christians.

At least when radical Islamists perform heinous acts, the moderate Muslims say, "Yeah. Those are radical Muslims. They absolutely do not speak for all of our religion. Please do not judge us all by the acts of our extreme fringe,"

Not so much with Christians. We would have so much more respect for Christians in general, if they would just honestly say, things like, "Yeah. Ya know what? Westboro Baptist? Yup. They're Christians. They certainly do not represent the Bible as I understand it, but they are Christians. Please do not judge our entire religion, by our extremists," but, Christians don't do that. No. When a Christian misbehaves publicly, all of the other Christians just circle the wagons, disown them, and act like their actions bear no reflection on their religion. what they don't seem to realise is that to us on the outside looking in, this act of disavowal is almost as bad as the actions of those they are disavowing.

Fool! Show me where the Bible tells Christians to act like muslims, or any other violent group. You can't. Actions speak louder than words. Look at what Scripture says. That is how Christians should act. If they do not, they are not Christians. The Koran, on the other hand, tells them to convert or kill the entire world. One preaches love, the other preaches violence. Why can't you see this? You must be deliberately obtuse.

Yeah, coming from a guy who starts every post insulting the person he is trying to tell what Christianity is "supposed" to be about"? Yeah, I think you're full of shit.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

The Bible doesn't say I have to be nice to you. Besides, you have a reprobate mind. It doesn't matter what I say, or how nicely I say it. You will continue to reject God.

Actually, it does. Col 4:5 & 6. You should read it sometime. Funny how the "Fool" knows this, but the "Christian" doesn't...

I reacted the way I did because you are dishonest. You attack Christianity, then try to pretend that you are not, in fact, doing so. You try to deceive others. I am familiar with your type. You aren't fooling anyone. You are simply a fool.

 

[keepitreal]

Christians (speaking from the USA) have a harder time seeing the hold their religion has on our society and the actual harm it can do.

Lol...
if the Gospel of Christ, aka, Christianity, had a hold on society,
we wouldn't see or be dealing with the things we are!

 

[sealybobo]

I like god, my most favorite invisible friend. Always there when I pray, least responsive when I need him. I am a pathetic atheist. I want to believe in god, any god. he/she/ them never seems to be there when I need em'. Where are you, GOD?

Haven't you had any good times?

A religious person would tell you that God won't be there when you call if you only call when you need something.

Thanks for speaking for us. You're a stand up guy. Actually I would say there is meaning in suffering if it forces a change for the better, but what you said sounded real intelligent too.

Atheist are at heart, skeptics, You make an assertion, you better be able to prove it. You believe there is a god, great, prove it. I WANT to believe in a god, any god. But the proof people put out there is just so much bullshit. Sell me, I want to proof. No sophism. Where is god now a days?

See post #98 for the proof you are so sorely seeking. Can I use something you created as evidence? When you create something is your creation the realization of your intention? When you create something do you do it in steps? Do your more complex creations require more steps and intelligence? Can I tell why you created it Can I tell what it's purpose is? Do you believe it is the nature of intelligence to create intelligence?

You have all the proof you need.

How come we don't live the longest? Why would God make his chosen creature die in 80 years but Ming the clam lived 500 years.

We can't stand extreme temperatures like Tardigrade.

We aren't the strongest fastest we don't have the best eyes or ears.

We seem like one of gods favorite animals.

 

[sealybobo]

I should be able to beat up a bear if we are gods chosen animal

 

[ding]

Declaration of Independence

Ah. The DOI was influenced by Christianity. It had undertones of non-specific Deism. There is a bit of a difference. And while I find it annoying, since the DOI is not a governing document of the United States, I really could care less about the language used therein.

It is a vague about religion as that 100 dollar bill. If you object to that, I don't why you wouldn't object to the DOI. You do realize that the DOI is of way more importance than currency, right? It is literally our founding document and it states that we get our rights for no other reason than we are God's creatures. Why don't you have a problem with that again?

Wrong on two counts. First, it is not nearly as vague. Ask 100 people what religion refers to God, capital "G", and I promise you, the overwhelming majority, if not nearly all, will tell you Judeo-Christianity, I don't care how you want to equivocate. Ask those same 100 what religion refers to "their creator", and the answer will be much more varied.

Second, regardless of how much importance you may wish to assign it, try using the DOI, as a document in a court of law as precedence over an law or constitutional precedence. It is not a governing document of our government. Period.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

How can I be wrong? I'm not the one who wants to remove all references of God from government. You guys are the ones wanting to do that. What exactly do you suppose Creator is? You are literally arguing to keep the reference of God in the DOI. Have you even ever read the DOI? How about Divine Providence? Is that Ok too? How about Nature's God? Is that ok now too?

IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America

hen in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their Public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected, whereby the Legislative Powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

He has obstructed the Administration of Justice by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers.

He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.

He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:

For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:

For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies

For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:

For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.

He has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.

He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.

He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.

He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our British brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these united Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States, that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. — And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.

Nice, but still empty sophism. Prove god exists. I want to see God here, with out any doubts. I hope that isn't to much to ask.

You must have me confused with someone who gives a shit if you believe in God. I've provided more than enough evidence for a reasonable person. I even explained it in terms you could relate to. Can you explain to someone what a strawberry tastes like? At the end of the day the only way they will ever know for themselves is to taste it for themselves. I don't care if you try it or not. I couldn't care less.