"Why are atheists so toxic"

[Dr Grump]

[
Those countries are places that no sane person would want to live. Progressive hell holes. Idiot.

Fake News. Total utter BS...

 

[Dr Grump]

No, I don't think that. I think the goal of militant atheism is to abolish religion.

It seems that you believe there is a distinction between removing the influence of religion from governance and subordination of religion. There is no difference. My values inform my vote and my faith informs my values. I don't forfeit my right to participate in governance anymore than you do. The same thing applies to those countries that you believe are atheistic countries.

That day won't come in your lifetime. These events are cyclical, not linear. In case you had not noticed the pendulum is swinging back in favor of a return to conservative values. That is what always happens during times of hardship. You really should read more history and then you wouldn't be such a linear thinker and miss the turns and be disappointed.

Just like militant christianity is to prothelyse and convert.
I think it a great thing if religion is removed government.

That pendulum is not swinging back towards conservative values. What makes you think it is?

 

[Czernobog]

I don't think it's their abandonment of religion, but their replacing of it with progressive theology that has led to this...

But it is their rejection of God that has led to it. Is it not?

No, you can reject God and not resort to murder and mayhem. Progressive theology is a requirement for that.

And yet murder and mayhem cannot happen, unless one first rejects God.

The Crusades, and the Inquisition notwithstanding...

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Don't be a fool. The Crusades were a response to Muslim aggression. The Inquisition was the result of a Pagan religion, disguised as Christianity. Regardless, the Bible does not condone what was done. In fact, it condemns it. The people responsible for the Inquisition were not Christians. They were evil. That is why they tortured and raped others. They enjoyed it. What does Scripture say about that?

and there it is, just as I pointed out in my opening post. whenever a Christian performs any act of violence, bigotry or hatefulness, eith it is justified, or it is demed to have been "not really a Christian". This is one of the reasons most of us Atheists have a modicum more respect - not much, but a tiny bit - for Muslims than we do Christians.

At least when radical Islamists perform heinous acts, the moderate Muslims say, "Yeah. Those are radical Muslims. They absolutely do not speak for all of our religion. Please do not judge us all by the acts of our extreme fringe,"

Not so much with Christians. We would have so much more respect for Christians in general, if they would just honestly say, things like, "Yeah. Ya know what? Westboro Baptist? Yup. They're Christians. They certainly do not represent the Bible as I understand it, but they are Christians. Please do not judge our entire religion, by our extremists," but, Christians don't do that. No. When a Christian misbehaves publicly, all of the other Christians just circle the wagons, disown them, and act like their actions bear no reflection on their religion. what they don't seem to realise is that to us on the outside looking in, this act of disavowal is almost as bad as the actions of those they are disavowing.

 

[Czernobog]

Back top your question of what Atheism has accomplished, right now, Atheism is still in its relative infancy. We are just fighting to exist, be recognised, and have a right to exist. We are fighting to bring the world to reason, and out of the stranglehold of myth. Should we succeed, who knows what will be accomplished in a world of reason, and fact, without reliance on myth, or irrational superstition?

I, for one, do not begrudge anything that was accomplished under the yolk of Christianity. I simply submit that Christianity had its time. It served its purpose. it is time to let go of superstition, and move into the light of reason.

Countries like N. Korea have abandoned God, and have embraced the light of reason. How's that working out?

No, they haven't. But countries like the Netherlands, Sweden, and Finland have. How's that working out for them?

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The ones being overrun by Muslim terrorists? LOL! Good one. Those countries are places that no sane person would want to live. Progressive hell holes. Idiot. At least Sweden is finally evicting Muslims. There is hope for them yet. Maybe.

Clearly you have never been to any of those countries...

 

[westwall]

Back top your question of what Atheism has accomplished, right now, Atheism is still in its relative infancy. We are just fighting to exist, be recognised, and have a right to exist. We are fighting to bring the world to reason, and out of the stranglehold of myth. Should we succeed, who knows what will be accomplished in a world of reason, and fact, without reliance on myth, or irrational superstition?

I, for one, do not begrudge anything that was accomplished under the yolk of Christianity. I simply submit that Christianity had its time. It served its purpose. it is time to let go of superstition, and move into the light of reason.

Countries like N. Korea have abandoned God, and have embraced the light of reason. How's that working out?

No, they haven't. But countries like the Netherlands, Sweden, and Finland have. How's that working out for them?

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No. They haven't. That is wishful thinking on your part. Let me know when they abolish religion and belief in God.

You seem to think that the goal of secular government is to abolish religion. It isn't. It is to remove the influence of religion from governance of society, which is what those nations have successfully done. I look forward to the day that we achieve that.

Nope. Secular government, at least those that will last, will allow people to worship, or not worship as they wish. It is only progressive, militant atheists who are pushing for the abolishment of religion. And it is those governments that have also inflicted the most atrocious acts of mass murder the world has ever seen.

 

[Czernobog]

Back top your question of what Atheism has accomplished, right now, Atheism is still in its relative infancy. We are just fighting to exist, be recognised, and have a right to exist. We are fighting to bring the world to reason, and out of the stranglehold of myth. Should we succeed, who knows what will be accomplished in a world of reason, and fact, without reliance on myth, or irrational superstition?

I, for one, do not begrudge anything that was accomplished under the yolk of Christianity. I simply submit that Christianity had its time. It served its purpose. it is time to let go of superstition, and move into the light of reason.

Countries like N. Korea have abandoned God, and have embraced the light of reason. How's that working out?

No, they haven't. But countries like the Netherlands, Sweden, and Finland have. How's that working out for them?

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No. They haven't. That is wishful thinking on your part. Let me know when they abolish religion and belief in God.

You seem to think that the goal of secular government is to abolish religion. It isn't. It is to remove the influence of religion from governance of society, which is what those nations have successfully done. I look forward to the day that we achieve that.

Nope. Secular government, at least those that will last, will allow people to worship, or not worship as they wish. It is only progressive, militant atheists who are pushing for the abolishment of religion. And it is those governments that have also inflicted the most atrocious acts of mass murder the world has ever seen.

Sure. That's what I am saying. I don't want to abolish religion. I want to abolish religious governance. There's a difference. And whether anyone wants to admit it, or not, we are still infected, at all levels, with religious influence in our government. It is that influence atheists want removed. We could care less about religious practice.

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[westwall]

Countries like N. Korea have abandoned God, and have embraced the light of reason. How's that working out?

No, they haven't. But countries like the Netherlands, Sweden, and Finland have. How's that working out for them?

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No. They haven't. That is wishful thinking on your part. Let me know when they abolish religion and belief in God.

You seem to think that the goal of secular government is to abolish religion. It isn't. It is to remove the influence of religion from governance of society, which is what those nations have successfully done. I look forward to the day that we achieve that.

Nope. Secular government, at least those that will last, will allow people to worship, or not worship as they wish. It is only progressive, militant atheists who are pushing for the abolishment of religion. And it is those governments that have also inflicted the most atrocious acts of mass murder the world has ever seen.

Sure. That's what I am saying. I don't want to abolish religion. I want to abolish religious governance. There's a difference. And whether anyone wants to admit it, or not, we are still infected, at all levels, with religious influence in our government. It is that influence atheists want removed. We could care less about religious practice.

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The problem is you can never get it completely out. It is simply impossible to do so. Thus, the mass murders committed to get rid of it by the progressive, atheistic governments of the 1920's, 30's and 70's.

 

[RWNJ]

Countries like N. Korea have abandoned God, and have embraced the light of reason. How's that working out?

Murder is forbidden in the Bible. Therefore, those who murder are not Christians. It's pretty simple. In fact, hating someone is no different than murder. Read the Bible. It explains everything.




I don't think it's their abandonment of religion, but their replacing of it with progressive theology that has led to this...

But it is their rejection of God that has led to it. Is it not?

No, you can reject God and not resort to murder and mayhem. Progressive theology is a requirement for that.

And yet murder and mayhem cannot happen, unless one first rejects God.

What about those who murder in the name of God? I disagree with your construct. Mankind is very capable of terrible things either with, or without, a belief in God.

Back top your question of what Atheism has accomplished, right now, Atheism is still in its relative infancy. We are just fighting to exist, be recognised, and have a right to exist. We are fighting to bring the world to reason, and out of the stranglehold of myth. Should we succeed, who knows what will be accomplished in a world of reason, and fact, without reliance on myth, or irrational superstition?

I, for one, do not begrudge anything that was accomplished under the yolk of Christianity. I simply submit that Christianity had its time. It served its purpose. it is time to let go of superstition, and move into the light of reason.

Countries like N. Korea have abandoned God, and have embraced the light of reason. How's that working out?

No, they haven't. But countries like the Netherlands, Sweden, and Finland have. How's that working out for them?

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No. They haven't. That is wishful thinking on your part. Let me know when they abolish religion and belief in God.

You seem to think that the goal of secular government is to abolish religion. It isn't. It is to remove the influence of religion from governance of society, which is what those nations have successfully done. I look forward to the day that we achieve that.

Atheist governments are always opposed to Christianity. Without exception. And once they "remove the influence of religion from governance of society" they go after the religious. They do not stop until they abolish it, or are themselves defeated. BTW, what is this supposed influence you speak of? I am not aware of any Christian influence in government. Perhaps you could point it out for me. Give me one example.

 

[RWNJ]

Countries like N. Korea have abandoned God, and have embraced the light of reason. How's that working out?

No, they haven't. But countries like the Netherlands, Sweden, and Finland have. How's that working out for them?

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No. They haven't. That is wishful thinking on your part. Let me know when they abolish religion and belief in God.

You seem to think that the goal of secular government is to abolish religion. It isn't. It is to remove the influence of religion from governance of society, which is what those nations have successfully done. I look forward to the day that we achieve that.

Nope. Secular government, at least those that will last, will allow people to worship, or not worship as they wish. It is only progressive, militant atheists who are pushing for the abolishment of religion. And it is those governments that have also inflicted the most atrocious acts of mass murder the world has ever seen.

Sure. That's what I am saying. I don't want to abolish religion. I want to abolish religious governance. There's a difference. And whether anyone wants to admit it, or not, we are still infected, at all levels, with religious influence in our government. It is that influence atheists want removed. We could care less about religious practice.

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What religious influence?

 

[RWNJ]

But it is their rejection of God that has led to it. Is it not?

No, you can reject God and not resort to murder and mayhem. Progressive theology is a requirement for that.

And yet murder and mayhem cannot happen, unless one first rejects God.

The Crusades, and the Inquisition notwithstanding...

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Don't be a fool. The Crusades were a response to Muslim aggression. The Inquisition was the result of a Pagan religion, disguised as Christianity. Regardless, the Bible does not condone what was done. In fact, it condemns it. The people responsible for the Inquisition were not Christians. They were evil. That is why they tortured and raped others. They enjoyed it. What does Scripture say about that?

and there it is, just as I pointed out in my opening post. whenever a Christian performs any act of violence, bigotry or hatefulness, eith it is justified, or it is demed to have been "not really a Christian". This is one of the reasons most of us Atheists have a modicum more respect - not much, but a tiny bit - for Muslims than we do Christians.

At least when radical Islamists perform heinous acts, the moderate Muslims say, "Yeah. Those are radical Muslims. They absolutely do not speak for all of our religion. Please do not judge us all by the acts of our extreme fringe,"

Not so much with Christians. We would have so much more respect for Christians in general, if they would just honestly say, things like, "Yeah. Ya know what? Westboro Baptist? Yup. They're Christians. They certainly do not represent the Bible as I understand it, but they are Christians. Please do not judge our entire religion, by our extremists," but, Christians don't do that. No. When a Christian misbehaves publicly, all of the other Christians just circle the wagons, disown them, and act like their actions bear no reflection on their religion. what they don't seem to realise is that to us on the outside looking in, this act of disavowal is almost as bad as the actions of those they are disavowing.

Fool! Show me where the Bible tells Christians to act like muslims, or any other violent group. You can't. Actions speak louder than words. Look at what Scripture says. That is how Christians should act. If they do not, they are not Christians. The Koran, on the other hand, tells them to convert or kill the entire world. One preaches love, the other preaches violence. Why can't you see this? You must be deliberately obtuse.

 

[Czernobog]

No, they haven't. But countries like the Netherlands, Sweden, and Finland have. How's that working out for them?

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No. They haven't. That is wishful thinking on your part. Let me know when they abolish religion and belief in God.

You seem to think that the goal of secular government is to abolish religion. It isn't. It is to remove the influence of religion from governance of society, which is what those nations have successfully done. I look forward to the day that we achieve that.

Nope. Secular government, at least those that will last, will allow people to worship, or not worship as they wish. It is only progressive, militant atheists who are pushing for the abolishment of religion. And it is those governments that have also inflicted the most atrocious acts of mass murder the world has ever seen.

Sure. That's what I am saying. I don't want to abolish religion. I want to abolish religious governance. There's a difference. And whether anyone wants to admit it, or not, we are still infected, at all levels, with religious influence in our government. It is that influence atheists want removed. We could care less about religious practice.

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The problem is you can never get it completely out. It is simply impossible to do so. Thus, the mass murders committed to get rid of it by the progressive, atheistic governments of the 1920's, 30's and 70's.

I disagree. Canada has done a pretty good job. Sweden has done a pretty good job. Finland has done a pretty good job. The Netherlands has done a pretty good job. It is about diligence, vigilance, and persistence.

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[Czernobog]

Murder is forbidden in the Bible. Therefore, those who murder are not Christians. It's pretty simple. In fact, hating someone is no different than murder. Read the Bible. It explains everything.




I don't think it's their abandonment of religion, but their replacing of it with progressive theology that has led to this...

But it is their rejection of God that has led to it. Is it not?

No, you can reject God and not resort to murder and mayhem. Progressive theology is a requirement for that.

And yet murder and mayhem cannot happen, unless one first rejects God.

What about those who murder in the name of God? I disagree with your construct. Mankind is very capable of terrible things either with, or without, a belief in God.

Back top your question of what Atheism has accomplished, right now, Atheism is still in its relative infancy. We are just fighting to exist, be recognised, and have a right to exist. We are fighting to bring the world to reason, and out of the stranglehold of myth. Should we succeed, who knows what will be accomplished in a world of reason, and fact, without reliance on myth, or irrational superstition?

I, for one, do not begrudge anything that was accomplished under the yolk of Christianity. I simply submit that Christianity had its time. It served its purpose. it is time to let go of superstition, and move into the light of reason.

Countries like N. Korea have abandoned God, and have embraced the light of reason. How's that working out?

No, they haven't. But countries like the Netherlands, Sweden, and Finland have. How's that working out for them?

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No. They haven't. That is wishful thinking on your part. Let me know when they abolish religion and belief in God.

You seem to think that the goal of secular government is to abolish religion. It isn't. It is to remove the influence of religion from governance of society, which is what those nations have successfully done. I look forward to the day that we achieve that.

Atheist governments are always opposed to Christianity. Without exception. And once they "remove the influence of religion from governance of society" they go after the religious. They do not stop until they abolish it, or are themselves defeated. BTW, what is this supposed influence you speak of? I am not aware of any Christian influence in government. Perhaps you could point it out for me. Give me one example.

Yeah, because Sweden is really cracking down on religious practice...

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[featherlite]

But it is their rejection of God that has led to it. Is it not?

No, you can reject God and not resort to murder and mayhem. Progressive theology is a requirement for that.

And yet murder and mayhem cannot happen, unless one first rejects God.

The Crusades, and the Inquisition notwithstanding...

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Don't be a fool. The Crusades were a response to Muslim aggression. The Inquisition was the result of a Pagan religion, disguised as Christianity. Regardless, the Bible does not condone what was done. In fact, it condemns it. The people responsible for the Inquisition were not Christians. They were evil. That is why they tortured and raped others. They enjoyed it. What does Scripture say about that?

and there it is, just as I pointed out in my opening post. whenever a Christian performs any act of violence, bigotry or hatefulness, eith it is justified, or it is demed to have been "not really a Christian". This is one of the reasons most of us Atheists have a modicum more respect - not much, but a tiny bit - for Muslims than we do Christians.

At least when radical Islamists perform heinous acts, the moderate Muslims say, "Yeah. Those are radical Muslims. They absolutely do not speak for all of our religion. Please do not judge us all by the acts of our extreme fringe,"

Not so much with Christians. We would have so much more respect for Christians in general, if they would just honestly say, things like, "Yeah. Ya know what? Westboro Baptist? Yup. They're Christians. They certainly do not represent the Bible as I understand it, but they are Christians. Please do not judge our entire religion, by our extremists," but, Christians don't do that. No. When a Christian misbehaves publicly, all of the other Christians just circle the wagons, disown them, and act like their actions bear no reflection on their religion. what they don't seem to realise is that to us on the outside looking in, this act of disavowal is almost as bad as the actions of those they are disavowing.

 

[Czernobog]

No, you can reject God and not resort to murder and mayhem. Progressive theology is a requirement for that.

And yet murder and mayhem cannot happen, unless one first rejects God.

The Crusades, and the Inquisition notwithstanding...

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Don't be a fool. The Crusades were a response to Muslim aggression. The Inquisition was the result of a Pagan religion, disguised as Christianity. Regardless, the Bible does not condone what was done. In fact, it condemns it. The people responsible for the Inquisition were not Christians. They were evil. That is why they tortured and raped others. They enjoyed it. What does Scripture say about that?

and there it is, just as I pointed out in my opening post. whenever a Christian performs any act of violence, bigotry or hatefulness, eith it is justified, or it is demed to have been "not really a Christian". This is one of the reasons most of us Atheists have a modicum more respect - not much, but a tiny bit - for Muslims than we do Christians.

At least when radical Islamists perform heinous acts, the moderate Muslims say, "Yeah. Those are radical Muslims. They absolutely do not speak for all of our religion. Please do not judge us all by the acts of our extreme fringe,"

Not so much with Christians. We would have so much more respect for Christians in general, if they would just honestly say, things like, "Yeah. Ya know what? Westboro Baptist? Yup. They're Christians. They certainly do not represent the Bible as I understand it, but they are Christians. Please do not judge our entire religion, by our extremists," but, Christians don't do that. No. When a Christian misbehaves publicly, all of the other Christians just circle the wagons, disown them, and act like their actions bear no reflection on their religion. what they don't seem to realise is that to us on the outside looking in, this act of disavowal is almost as bad as the actions of those they are disavowing.

Fool! Show me where the Bible tells Christians to act like muslims, or any other violent group. You can't. Actions speak louder than words. Look at what Scripture says. That is how Christians should act. If they do not, they are not Christians. The Koran, on the other hand, tells them to convert or kill the entire world. One preaches love, the other preaches violence. Why can't you see this? You must be deliberately obtuse.

Yeah, coming from a guy who starts every post insulting the person he is trying to tell what Christianity is "supposed" to be about"? Yeah, I think you're full of shit.

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[RWNJ]

And yet murder and mayhem cannot happen, unless one first rejects God.

The Crusades, and the Inquisition notwithstanding...

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Don't be a fool. The Crusades were a response to Muslim aggression. The Inquisition was the result of a Pagan religion, disguised as Christianity. Regardless, the Bible does not condone what was done. In fact, it condemns it. The people responsible for the Inquisition were not Christians. They were evil. That is why they tortured and raped others. They enjoyed it. What does Scripture say about that?

and there it is, just as I pointed out in my opening post. whenever a Christian performs any act of violence, bigotry or hatefulness, eith it is justified, or it is demed to have been "not really a Christian". This is one of the reasons most of us Atheists have a modicum more respect - not much, but a tiny bit - for Muslims than we do Christians.

At least when radical Islamists perform heinous acts, the moderate Muslims say, "Yeah. Those are radical Muslims. They absolutely do not speak for all of our religion. Please do not judge us all by the acts of our extreme fringe,"

Not so much with Christians. We would have so much more respect for Christians in general, if they would just honestly say, things like, "Yeah. Ya know what? Westboro Baptist? Yup. They're Christians. They certainly do not represent the Bible as I understand it, but they are Christians. Please do not judge our entire religion, by our extremists," but, Christians don't do that. No. When a Christian misbehaves publicly, all of the other Christians just circle the wagons, disown them, and act like their actions bear no reflection on their religion. what they don't seem to realise is that to us on the outside looking in, this act of disavowal is almost as bad as the actions of those they are disavowing.

Fool! Show me where the Bible tells Christians to act like muslims, or any other violent group. You can't. Actions speak louder than words. Look at what Scripture says. That is how Christians should act. If they do not, they are not Christians. The Koran, on the other hand, tells them to convert or kill the entire world. One preaches love, the other preaches violence. Why can't you see this? You must be deliberately obtuse.

Yeah, coming from a guy who starts every post insulting the person he is trying to tell what Christianity is "supposed" to be about"? Yeah, I think you're full of shit.

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The Bible doesn't say I have to be nice to you. Besides, you have a reprobate mind. It doesn't matter what I say, or how nicely I say it. You will continue to reject God.

 

[ding]

Back top your question of what Atheism has accomplished, right now, Atheism is still in its relative infancy. We are just fighting to exist, be recognised, and have a right to exist. We are fighting to bring the world to reason, and out of the stranglehold of myth. Should we succeed, who knows what will be accomplished in a world of reason, and fact, without reliance on myth, or irrational superstition?

I, for one, do not begrudge anything that was accomplished under the yolk of Christianity. I simply submit that Christianity had its time. It served its purpose. it is time to let go of superstition, and move into the light of reason.

Countries like N. Korea have abandoned God, and have embraced the light of reason. How's that working out?

No, they haven't. But countries like the Netherlands, Sweden, and Finland have. How's that working out for them?

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The ones being overrun by Muslim terrorists? LOL! Good one. Those countries are places that no sane person would want to live. Progressive hell holes. Idiot. At least Sweden is finally evicting Muslims. There is hope for them yet. Maybe.

Clearly you have never been to any of those countries...

I spent a month in Stavanger on an assignment and have several Norwegian friends. With regards to socialism they will tell you what works there won't work here. Small population and lots of wealth. With regard to social lives, they are not as liberal as you think. With regard to religion, they are not overtly religious, but they are not overtly atheist either and most certainly not militant towards those who are religious. But just because they are not overtly religious, that does not mean they do not believe in a higher power than man. Most do.

 

[ding]

Countries like N. Korea have abandoned God, and have embraced the light of reason. How's that working out?

No, they haven't. But countries like the Netherlands, Sweden, and Finland have. How's that working out for them?

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No. They haven't. That is wishful thinking on your part. Let me know when they abolish religion and belief in God.

You seem to think that the goal of secular government is to abolish religion. It isn't. It is to remove the influence of religion from governance of society, which is what those nations have successfully done. I look forward to the day that we achieve that.

Nope. Secular government, at least those that will last, will allow people to worship, or not worship as they wish. It is only progressive, militant atheists who are pushing for the abolishment of religion. And it is those governments that have also inflicted the most atrocious acts of mass murder the world has ever seen.

Sure. That's what I am saying. I don't want to abolish religion. I want to abolish religious governance. There's a difference. And whether anyone wants to admit it, or not, we are still infected, at all levels, with religious influence in our government. It is that influence atheists want removed. We could care less about religious practice.

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Right, you just want to subordinate it until it ceases to exist. What part of it is impossible to separate one's faith from their values do you not understand? So it is ok for your values to inform your vote, but not religious people?

 

[ding]

No, I don't think that. I think the goal of militant atheism is to abolish religion.

It seems that you believe there is a distinction between removing the influence of religion from governance and subordination of religion. There is no difference. My values inform my vote and my faith informs my values. I don't forfeit my right to participate in governance anymore than you do. The same thing applies to those countries that you believe are atheistic countries.

That day won't come in your lifetime. These events are cyclical, not linear. In case you had not noticed the pendulum is swinging back in favor of a return to conservative values. That is what always happens during times of hardship. You really should read more history and then you wouldn't be such a linear thinker and miss the turns and be disappointed.

Just like militant christianity is to prothelyse and convert.
I think it a great thing if religion is removed government.

That pendulum is not swinging back towards conservative values. What makes you think it is?

Spreading the Good News is a core tenant of our faith. So if you define that as militant, then I guess I am guilty. I don't see it that way though. I have a different standard than that. Christianity is supposed to be a billboard religion. Not as in a billboard with words but a billboard of actions and deeds. The most effective Christians I know at spreading the Good News are the ones that influenced me and never once started a conversation about Jesus.

My standard is this: Christians who peaceably and respectfully stand with candles at abortion clinics are not militant. Christians who bomb abortion clinics are militant. Christians who respectfully state their beliefs are not militant. Christians who belittle you or threaten you with eternal damnation because you have not accepted Jesus as your Savior are militant. Christians who oppose gay marriage are not militant. Christians who call homosexuals names and tell them they are going to hell are militant. Christians who judge behaviors are not militant. Christians who judge individuals are militant. Within any group there will always be a distribution. It is perfectly natural. In fact, I believe it is necessary as it all serves a purpose. He uses it all for the good of men of good will. This I am 100% certain of.

Religion has been removed from government. So much so that people don't know what the establish clause meant in the first place. It is not separation of church and state. It was written to prevent federal government from interfering with state established religions of which half the states had at the time the Constitution was ratified, but I digress.

What makes me think the pendulum is swinging back to conservative values? The short answer is the saeculum cycle. The obvious answer is look around at the world. Surely even you cannot deny what is happening in Europe and the US. But know this, the drums of war are beating. I wouldn't be surprised if we had a major global conflict before 2025, 2030 at the latest. In fact, historians call it the 100 year major war cycle. Cycles exist everywhere in nature. We aren't immune just because we are humans. Wars serve a similar purpose as forest fires; it burns off the old growth so new growth can occur. Suffering has meaning and value. Just ask the Jews. Didn't I already mention that He uses it all for the good of men of good will?

 

[ding]

But it is their rejection of God that has led to it. Is it not?

No, you can reject God and not resort to murder and mayhem. Progressive theology is a requirement for that.

And yet murder and mayhem cannot happen, unless one first rejects God.

The Crusades, and the Inquisition notwithstanding...

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Don't be a fool. The Crusades were a response to Muslim aggression. The Inquisition was the result of a Pagan religion, disguised as Christianity. Regardless, the Bible does not condone what was done. In fact, it condemns it. The people responsible for the Inquisition were not Christians. They were evil. That is why they tortured and raped others. They enjoyed it. What does Scripture say about that?

and there it is, just as I pointed out in my opening post. whenever a Christian performs any act of violence, bigotry or hatefulness, eith it is justified, or it is demed to have been "not really a Christian". This is one of the reasons most of us Atheists have a modicum more respect - not much, but a tiny bit - for Muslims than we do Christians.

At least when radical Islamists perform heinous acts, the moderate Muslims say, "Yeah. Those are radical Muslims. They absolutely do not speak for all of our religion. Please do not judge us all by the acts of our extreme fringe,"

Not so much with Christians. We would have so much more respect for Christians in general, if they would just honestly say, things like, "Yeah. Ya know what? Westboro Baptist? Yup. They're Christians. They certainly do not represent the Bible as I understand it, but they are Christians. Please do not judge our entire religion, by our extremists," but, Christians don't do that. No. When a Christian misbehaves publicly, all of the other Christians just circle the wagons, disown them, and act like their actions bear no reflection on their religion. what they don't seem to realise is that to us on the outside looking in, this act of disavowal is almost as bad as the actions of those they are disavowing.

See post # 118.

 

[sealybobo]

Toxicity is a relative thing, mean spirited and hateful is one thing. But at least they aren't creating an imaginary conflict, targeting and murdering (beheading or burning alive) non atheist, let alone hijacking civilian airplanes loaded with civilians as missiles to attack non atheists. Where as TOXIC theists are doing such things, which makes religion seem more anti-human and nihilistic and well beyond "toxic".

Yes, we should probably skip over the two hundred million people they murdered in the 20th century. Maybe we should give state atheism another chance.

No, not saying that. Are you are trying to minimize the billions of people killed by religion in the last 20 centuries? The next terrorist attack, possible atomic/biological attack in the near future, will be by nutjobs that believe in the existence of an imaginary sky spirit. Not a atheist.

Billions?

Look at me. I'm your typical atheist. 99℅ of the time I realize I'm wasting my time talking about something that doesn't even exist.

But it's a powerful thing. For example Republicans want to forgive sessions for lying because he's a good Christian.

Is he? He's a typical one but good?