"Why are atheists so toxic"

[ding]

See, Ding is a perfect example of what I am talking about. He claims to be a critical thinker, while accusing others of critical theory, while engaging in critical theory himself. He just spent the last three posts cutting and pasting propaganda from sites extolling all of the virtues of Christianity, in order to present a narrative that Christianity has never had anything but a positive effect on society, or history. and ask him if Chriatianity has ever been responsible for any atrocities, or bloodshed in history, and he'll respond with, "Show me," as if he is ignorant of such.

Actually as per the instructions of the mods I have taken selected excepts from those articles and have cited their sources. You may have noticed the authorities I have quoted are historians. You may have also noticed that the purpose of this information was to describe how Christianity has shaped the world for the better. What you didn't see was a criticism of your religious belief system, atheism. So how could I have been employing critical theory when I did not criticize anything? Do you see my extolling the virtues of Christianity as an criticism of your faith. Why don't you do as I just did and show us what good atheism has done for the world?

That's rather a trick question, and you know it. The reality is that atheism is a relatively new idea. We are, by nature, a superstitious race. We fear what we do not understand, and, because we have imaginations, it is easy for us to imagine monsters, and boogeymen. so, we create Gods, and superheroes to fight them. Was Christianity the predominate religion during much of the development of Western Civilization? Yup. However, it doesn't necessarily follow that "Christianity" was "responsible" for those advancements.

For instance. Galileo was a Catholic, and he invented the telescope, and provided us with the Heliocentric model of the solar system that allowed astronomers to make untold advancements in the field. Is Christianity to be credited for those advancements?

Don't kid yourself, atheism has been around since the beginning of man. So no, I don't believe it is a trick question at all.

Atheism (derived from the Ancient Greek ἄθεος atheos meaning "without gods; godless; secular; denying or disdaining the gods, especially officially sanctioned gods"[1]) is the absence or rejection of the belief that deities exist. The English term was used at least as early as the sixteenth century and atheistic ideas and their influence have a longer history. Over the centuries, atheists have supported their lack of belief in gods through a variety of avenues, including scientific, philosophical, and ideological notions.

Philosophical atheist thought began to appear in Europe and Asia in the sixth or fifth century BCE. Will Durant, in his The Story of Civilization, explained that certain pygmy tribes found in Africa were observed to have no identifiable cults or rites. There were no totems, no deities, and no spirits. Their dead were buried without special ceremonies or accompanying items and received no further attention. They even appeared to lack simple superstitions, according to travelers' reports.[citation needed] The Vedas of Ceylon[clarification needed] admitted only the possibility that deities might exist but went no further. Neither prayers nor sacrifices were suggested in any way by the tribes.

History of atheism - Wikipedia

You seem intent on making fringe arguments but the overwhelming evidence of history shows that Western Civilization was built upon the values of Christianity by Christians. I have been showing you the proof but you are too stubborn to accept these self evident historical facts. What has atheism accomplished?

 

[RWNJ]

I see this question asked by religious folk frequently. I do disagree with some of the harsher anti-religious sentiments, at least as far as tone is concerned, but I understand exactly where those attitudes come from. Christians (speaking from the USA) have a harder time seeing the hold their religion has on our society and the actual harm it can do. When they are faced with the topic of crimes and abuses committed by other Christians, I commonly hear that the perpetrators were not "true Christians."

What is a true Christian? If a person, even if they are a criminal or an abuser (or, heck, just a run-of-the-mill wacko), professes belief in Jesus as the son of God and the savior of humanity, and accepts the Bible, then are they not a Christian? When asked how to become a Christian, is that not exactly what one is told? "To accept Jesus Christ in your heart, as your Lord, and Saviour"? The same people who are quick to point out that others are not true Christians are, more often than not, just as quick to point out the beliefs of other wrongdoers - Muslims and so-called "Satanists," for example. All people are capable of committing crimes, regardless of belief, but those who commit them in the name of their religion should not be ignored or brushed off as "not true believers." Just as it provides light and hope to some, there is a dark side to religion that people should acknowledge, too.

So back to the question of why atheists are so "toxic." Some among us have been hurt and abused by religion and religious people. Many see the religious attempting, at the expense of other people, to impose their standards of morality on others through law and social norms. Why are we told we need to "respect the beliefs of others" when ours are denigrated?

These areas are for us to freely vent our frustrations, as well as share our experiences with others of like mind. Atheists should not have to be polite about religion even in a space made for themselves. Certainly people should be able to freely believe what they like in their homes and in their hearts, but that doesn't mean religion should be free from criticism, and it doesn't mean religion is 100% good all the time. Nothing is.

Keep in mind, this is a forum for Religion and Ethics. Like it, or not, the question of ethics does not belong solely to either the religious, not to any one particular religion.

Think of a crooked cop. He claims to be a cop, and he has a badge. but he's also a criminal. A cop upholds the law. A Christian does the will of the Father. Think about it.

 

[RWNJ]

Back top your question of what Atheism has accomplished, right now, Atheism is still in its relative infancy. We are just fighting to exist, be recognised, and have a right to exist. We are fighting to bring the world to reason, and out of the stranglehold of myth. Should we succeed, who knows what will be accomplished in a world of reason, and fact, without reliance on myth, or irrational superstition?

I, for one, do not begrudge anything that was accomplished under the yolk of Christianity. I simply submit that Christianity had its time. It served its purpose. it is time to let go of superstition, and move into the light of reason.

Countries like N. Korea have abandoned God, and have embraced the light of reason. How's that working out?

 

[westwall]

I see this question asked by religious folk frequently. I do disagree with some of the harsher anti-religious sentiments, at least as far as tone is concerned, but I understand exactly where those attitudes come from. Christians (speaking from the USA) have a harder time seeing the hold their religion has on our society and the actual harm it can do. When they are faced with the topic of crimes and abuses committed by other Christians, I commonly hear that the perpetrators were not "true Christians."

What is a true Christian? If a person, even if they are a criminal or an abuser (or, heck, just a run-of-the-mill wacko), professes belief in Jesus as the son of God and the savior of humanity, and accepts the Bible, then are they not a Christian? When asked how to become a Christian, is that not exactly what one is told? "To accept Jesus Christ in your heart, as your Lord, and Saviour"? The same people who are quick to point out that others are not true Christians are, more often than not, just as quick to point out the beliefs of other wrongdoers - Muslims and so-called "Satanists," for example. All people are capable of committing crimes, regardless of belief, but those who commit them in the name of their religion should not be ignored or brushed off as "not true believers." Just as it provides light and hope to some, there is a dark side to religion that people should acknowledge, too.

So back to the question of why atheists are so "toxic." Some among us have been hurt and abused by religion and religious people. Many see the religious attempting, at the expense of other people, to impose their standards of morality on others through law and social norms. Why are we told we need to "respect the beliefs of others" when ours are denigrated?

These areas are for us to freely vent our frustrations, as well as share our experiences with others of like mind. Atheists should not have to be polite about religion even in a space made for themselves. Certainly people should be able to freely believe what they like in their homes and in their hearts, but that doesn't mean religion should be free from criticism, and it doesn't mean religion is 100% good all the time. Nothing is.

Keep in mind, this is a forum for Religion and Ethics. Like it, or not, the question of ethics does not belong solely to either the religious, not to any one particular religion.

Atheists aren't toxic. Militant atheists maybe, but not atheists in general.

Note all the militant athiest ever did was talk and write about ideas.

Wrong. They also clog up the legal system by filing frivolous lawsuits against people for excercising their religious beliefs in places the atheists don't like. They consistently mis interpret the COTUS as regards the separation of religion and state. The COTUS says that there shall be no STATE religion. It doesn't say you can't have a nativity on public property. That is a gross misinterpretation of law and they do it all of the time.

 

[westwall]

Back top your question of what Atheism has accomplished, right now, Atheism is still in its relative infancy. We are just fighting to exist, be recognised, and have a right to exist. We are fighting to bring the world to reason, and out of the stranglehold of myth. Should we succeed, who knows what will be accomplished in a world of reason, and fact, without reliance on myth, or irrational superstition?

I, for one, do not begrudge anything that was accomplished under the yolk of Christianity. I simply submit that Christianity had its time. It served its purpose. it is time to let go of superstition, and move into the light of reason.

Countries like N. Korea have abandoned God, and have embraced the light of reason. How's that working out?

I don't think it's their abandonment of religion, but their replacing of it with progressive theology that has led to this...

 

[RWNJ]

Back top your question of what Atheism has accomplished, right now, Atheism is still in its relative infancy. We are just fighting to exist, be recognised, and have a right to exist. We are fighting to bring the world to reason, and out of the stranglehold of myth. Should we succeed, who knows what will be accomplished in a world of reason, and fact, without reliance on myth, or irrational superstition?

I, for one, do not begrudge anything that was accomplished under the yolk of Christianity. I simply submit that Christianity had its time. It served its purpose. it is time to let go of superstition, and move into the light of reason.

Countries like N. Korea have abandoned God, and have embraced the light of reason. How's that working out?

I don't think it's their abandonment of religion, but their replacing of it with progressive theology that has led to this...

But it is their rejection of God that has led to it. Is it not?

 

[westwall]

Back top your question of what Atheism has accomplished, right now, Atheism is still in its relative infancy. We are just fighting to exist, be recognised, and have a right to exist. We are fighting to bring the world to reason, and out of the stranglehold of myth. Should we succeed, who knows what will be accomplished in a world of reason, and fact, without reliance on myth, or irrational superstition?

I, for one, do not begrudge anything that was accomplished under the yolk of Christianity. I simply submit that Christianity had its time. It served its purpose. it is time to let go of superstition, and move into the light of reason.

Countries like N. Korea have abandoned God, and have embraced the light of reason. How's that working out?

I don't think it's their abandonment of religion, but their replacing of it with progressive theology that has led to this...

But it is their rejection of God that has led to it. Is it not?

No, you can reject God and not resort to murder and mayhem. Progressive theology is a requirement for that.

 

[RWNJ]

Back top your question of what Atheism has accomplished, right now, Atheism is still in its relative infancy. We are just fighting to exist, be recognised, and have a right to exist. We are fighting to bring the world to reason, and out of the stranglehold of myth. Should we succeed, who knows what will be accomplished in a world of reason, and fact, without reliance on myth, or irrational superstition?

I, for one, do not begrudge anything that was accomplished under the yolk of Christianity. I simply submit that Christianity had its time. It served its purpose. it is time to let go of superstition, and move into the light of reason.

Countries like N. Korea have abandoned God, and have embraced the light of reason. How's that working out?

I don't think it's their abandonment of religion, but their replacing of it with progressive theology that has led to this...

But it is their rejection of God that has led to it. Is it not?

No, you can reject God and not resort to murder and mayhem. Progressive theology is a requirement for that.

And yet murder and mayhem cannot happen, unless one first rejects God.

 

[Czernobog]

Back top your question of what Atheism has accomplished, right now, Atheism is still in its relative infancy. We are just fighting to exist, be recognised, and have a right to exist. We are fighting to bring the world to reason, and out of the stranglehold of myth. Should we succeed, who knows what will be accomplished in a world of reason, and fact, without reliance on myth, or irrational superstition?

I, for one, do not begrudge anything that was accomplished under the yolk of Christianity. I simply submit that Christianity had its time. It served its purpose. it is time to let go of superstition, and move into the light of reason.

Countries like N. Korea have abandoned God, and have embraced the light of reason. How's that working out?

No, they haven't. But countries like the Netherlands, Sweden, and Finland have. How's that working out for them?

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

 

[Czernobog]

Back top your question of what Atheism has accomplished, right now, Atheism is still in its relative infancy. We are just fighting to exist, be recognised, and have a right to exist. We are fighting to bring the world to reason, and out of the stranglehold of myth. Should we succeed, who knows what will be accomplished in a world of reason, and fact, without reliance on myth, or irrational superstition?

I, for one, do not begrudge anything that was accomplished under the yolk of Christianity. I simply submit that Christianity had its time. It served its purpose. it is time to let go of superstition, and move into the light of reason.

Countries like N. Korea have abandoned God, and have embraced the light of reason. How's that working out?

I don't think it's their abandonment of religion, but their replacing of it with progressive theology that has led to this...

But it is their rejection of God that has led to it. Is it not?

No, you can reject God and not resort to murder and mayhem. Progressive theology is a requirement for that.

And yet murder and mayhem cannot happen, unless one first rejects God.

The Crusades, and the Inquisition notwithstanding...

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

 

[ding]

Back top your question of what Atheism has accomplished, right now, Atheism is still in its relative infancy. We are just fighting to exist, be recognised, and have a right to exist. We are fighting to bring the world to reason, and out of the stranglehold of myth. Should we succeed, who knows what will be accomplished in a world of reason, and fact, without reliance on myth, or irrational superstition?

I, for one, do not begrudge anything that was accomplished under the yolk of Christianity. I simply submit that Christianity had its time. It served its purpose. it is time to let go of superstition, and move into the light of reason.

Countries like N. Korea have abandoned God, and have embraced the light of reason. How's that working out?

No, they haven't. But countries like the Netherlands, Sweden, and Finland have. How's that working out for them?

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

No. They haven't. That is wishful thinking on your part. Let me know when they abolish religion and belief in God.

 

[RWNJ]

Countries like N. Korea have abandoned God, and have embraced the light of reason. How's that working out?

I don't think it's their abandonment of religion, but their replacing of it with progressive theology that has led to this...

But it is their rejection of God that has led to it. Is it not?

No, you can reject God and not resort to murder and mayhem. Progressive theology is a requirement for that.

And yet murder and mayhem cannot happen, unless one first rejects God.

The Crusades, and the Inquisition notwithstanding...

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Don't be a fool. The Crusades were a response to Muslim aggression. The Inquisition was the result of a Pagan religion, disguised as Christianity. Regardless, the Bible does not condone what was done. In fact, it condemns it. The people responsible for the Inquisition were not Christians. They were evil. That is why they tortured and raped others. They enjoyed it. What does Scripture say about that?

 

[RWNJ]

Back top your question of what Atheism has accomplished, right now, Atheism is still in its relative infancy. We are just fighting to exist, be recognised, and have a right to exist. We are fighting to bring the world to reason, and out of the stranglehold of myth. Should we succeed, who knows what will be accomplished in a world of reason, and fact, without reliance on myth, or irrational superstition?

I, for one, do not begrudge anything that was accomplished under the yolk of Christianity. I simply submit that Christianity had its time. It served its purpose. it is time to let go of superstition, and move into the light of reason.

Countries like N. Korea have abandoned God, and have embraced the light of reason. How's that working out?

No, they haven't. But countries like the Netherlands, Sweden, and Finland have. How's that working out for them?

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

The ones being overrun by Muslim terrorists? LOL! Good one. Those countries are places that no sane person would want to live. Progressive hell holes. Idiot. At least Sweden is finally evicting Muslims. There is hope for them yet. Maybe.

 

[ding]

Countries like N. Korea have abandoned God, and have embraced the light of reason. How's that working out?

I don't think it's their abandonment of religion, but their replacing of it with progressive theology that has led to this...

But it is their rejection of God that has led to it. Is it not?

No, you can reject God and not resort to murder and mayhem. Progressive theology is a requirement for that.

And yet murder and mayhem cannot happen, unless one first rejects God.

The Crusades, and the Inquisition notwithstanding...

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

I think you need some perspective. How many years ago was that? And how many died? Now compare that to the murders of the 20th century by atheistic rulers. Do you see my point about perspective?

 

[ding]

Back top your question of what Atheism has accomplished, right now, Atheism is still in its relative infancy. We are just fighting to exist, be recognised, and have a right to exist. We are fighting to bring the world to reason, and out of the stranglehold of myth. Should we succeed, who knows what will be accomplished in a world of reason, and fact, without reliance on myth, or irrational superstition?

I, for one, do not begrudge anything that was accomplished under the yolk of Christianity. I simply submit that Christianity had its time. It served its purpose. it is time to let go of superstition, and move into the light of reason.

Countries like N. Korea have abandoned God, and have embraced the light of reason. How's that working out?

No, they haven't. But countries like the Netherlands, Sweden, and Finland have. How's that working out for them?

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Your problem is that you have no objectivity. You want to claim nations that have atheists and religious people in them as atheist states and exclude the nations which really were atheistic societies. You want to blame Christianity for events that happened 800 years ago and ignore the atrocities of atheists 100 years ago. And you refuse to give Christianity any of the credit it truly deserves. You have no objectivity.

 

[westwall]

Back top your question of what Atheism has accomplished, right now, Atheism is still in its relative infancy. We are just fighting to exist, be recognised, and have a right to exist. We are fighting to bring the world to reason, and out of the stranglehold of myth. Should we succeed, who knows what will be accomplished in a world of reason, and fact, without reliance on myth, or irrational superstition?

I, for one, do not begrudge anything that was accomplished under the yolk of Christianity. I simply submit that Christianity had its time. It served its purpose. it is time to let go of superstition, and move into the light of reason.

Countries like N. Korea have abandoned God, and have embraced the light of reason. How's that working out?

I don't think it's their abandonment of religion, but their replacing of it with progressive theology that has led to this...

But it is their rejection of God that has led to it. Is it not?

No, you can reject God and not resort to murder and mayhem. Progressive theology is a requirement for that.

And yet murder and mayhem cannot happen, unless one first rejects God.

What about those who murder in the name of God? I disagree with your construct. Mankind is very capable of terrible things either with, or without, a belief in God.

 

[westwall]

Countries like N. Korea have abandoned God, and have embraced the light of reason. How's that working out?

I don't think it's their abandonment of religion, but their replacing of it with progressive theology that has led to this...

But it is their rejection of God that has led to it. Is it not?

No, you can reject God and not resort to murder and mayhem. Progressive theology is a requirement for that.

And yet murder and mayhem cannot happen, unless one first rejects God.

The Crusades, and the Inquisition notwithstanding...

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Wow, 1000 and 400 year old history. Amazingly enough there was this thing called the REFORMATION. The Christian groups settled way down after that. Islam has not yet undergone its Reformation, when it does it too will be far less violent.

 

[ding]

Back top your question of what Atheism has accomplished, right now, Atheism is still in its relative infancy. We are just fighting to exist, be recognised, and have a right to exist. We are fighting to bring the world to reason, and out of the stranglehold of myth. Should we succeed, who knows what will be accomplished in a world of reason, and fact, without reliance on myth, or irrational superstition?

I, for one, do not begrudge anything that was accomplished under the yolk of Christianity. I simply submit that Christianity had its time. It served its purpose. it is time to let go of superstition, and move into the light of reason.

No. Atheism is not in its infancy. I already refuted this in post #81. The term atheism was used at least as early as the sixteenth century and atheistic ideas and their influence have a longer history. Over the centuries, atheists have supported their lack of belief in gods through a variety of avenues, including scientific, philosophical, and ideological notions. You have yet to refute this. It stands unchallenged. History of atheism - Wikipedia

So what has atheism accomplished besides murdering 200 million people within the last 100 years?

No. Belief in God is not irrational. The Bible tells us that Creation had a beginning. Science tells us that the universe had a beginning and that the laws of nature were in place before the universe began. Something is responsible for those laws. That something must be eternal and not subject to the laws of nature. The best available answer for the first cause is consciousness or existence itself.

We live in a universe where the laws of nature are such that beings that know and create will eventually arise. Therefore, the potential for these beings existed before space and time were created just like the potential for music, mathematics and science existed before space and time were created. Our potential was realized through the laws of nature. The Bible tells us that we came from dust and shall return to dust. The matter and energy which makes up these beings came into existence when space and time were created. We literally are comprised of star dust, thus the universe became self aware and proved the Bible correct.

The Bible does correctly tells us that creation was created in steps. Science tells us the steps required to go from creation of the universe to beings that know and create. Creation has evolved from subatomic particles to hydrogen and helium to the cosmic structures to all of the elements and compounds, somehow made the leap to life and finally made the leap to consciousness; beings that know and create. Beings were born possessing natural talents of music, mathematics and science; realities which existed before space and time existed because the laws of nature existed before space and time.

The Bible correctly identifies man's greatest weakness; that he rationalizes doing wrong as doing right. The Bible correctly tells us that man is born with an innate sense of right and wrong. Science has confirmed that we are hardwired for morality. The Bible correctly tells us that man knows right from wrong and when he violates it rather than abandon the concept, he rationalizes that he didn't violate it.

If anyone is irrational it is you. You worship what was created rather than the creator. You are without excuse because evidence for the creator is plain to see through what He has created. We know from Creation that there has never been an uncaused event since space and time were created which means that everything is connected and does happen for a reason. We know from creation that every stage of evolution (stellar evolution, cosmic evolution, chemical evolution, evolution of life, evolution of consciousness) has led to a next stage of evolution and that the final stage is consciousness which is the source of the created. Therefore, the purpose of our existence is to progress as human beings in consciousness which is the last stage of the evolution of matter.

Be prepared to address every single point because if you are in for a penny you are in for a pound.

 

[Czernobog]

Back top your question of what Atheism has accomplished, right now, Atheism is still in its relative infancy. We are just fighting to exist, be recognised, and have a right to exist. We are fighting to bring the world to reason, and out of the stranglehold of myth. Should we succeed, who knows what will be accomplished in a world of reason, and fact, without reliance on myth, or irrational superstition?

I, for one, do not begrudge anything that was accomplished under the yolk of Christianity. I simply submit that Christianity had its time. It served its purpose. it is time to let go of superstition, and move into the light of reason.

Countries like N. Korea have abandoned God, and have embraced the light of reason. How's that working out?

No, they haven't. But countries like the Netherlands, Sweden, and Finland have. How's that working out for them?

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

No. They haven't. That is wishful thinking on your part. Let me know when they abolish religion and belief in God.

You seem to think that the goal of secular government is to abolish religion. It isn't. It is to remove the influence of religion from governance of society, which is what those nations have successfully done. I look forward to the day that we achieve that.

 

[ding]

Back top your question of what Atheism has accomplished, right now, Atheism is still in its relative infancy. We are just fighting to exist, be recognised, and have a right to exist. We are fighting to bring the world to reason, and out of the stranglehold of myth. Should we succeed, who knows what will be accomplished in a world of reason, and fact, without reliance on myth, or irrational superstition?

I, for one, do not begrudge anything that was accomplished under the yolk of Christianity. I simply submit that Christianity had its time. It served its purpose. it is time to let go of superstition, and move into the light of reason.

Countries like N. Korea have abandoned God, and have embraced the light of reason. How's that working out?

No, they haven't. But countries like the Netherlands, Sweden, and Finland have. How's that working out for them?

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

No. They haven't. That is wishful thinking on your part. Let me know when they abolish religion and belief in God.

You seem to think that the goal of secular government is to abolish religion. It isn't. It is to remove the influence of religion from governance of society, which is what those nations have successfully done. I look forward to the day that we achieve that.

No, I don't think that. I think the goal of militant atheism is to abolish religion.

It seems that you believe there is a distinction between removing the influence of religion from governance and subordination of religion. There is no difference. My values inform my vote and my faith informs my values. I don't forfeit my right to participate in governance anymore than you do. The same thing applies to those countries that you believe are atheistic countries.

That day won't come in your lifetime. These events are cyclical, not linear. In case you had not noticed the pendulum is swinging back in favor of a return to conservative values. That is what always happens during times of hardship. You really should read more history and then you wouldn't be such a linear thinker and miss the turns and be disappointed.