"Why are atheists so toxic"

[ding]

Christianity led to the end of murder of slaves in the coliseums of the Roman world, the beginning of healthcare for the masses and education for the common man. It brought an end to the slave trade and slavery itself. It brought workers’ rights through Lord Shaftesbury, and child protection agencies.

Christianity also birthed the Civil Rights Movement with the leader being the preacher Martin Luther King Jr. and the end of Apartheid.

Christianity in addition has had a major impact upon all European languages.

Great authors like C.S. Lewis and freedom fighters like John Knox were also inspired in the Christian tradition and helped change our world.

Christian leaders like Elizabeth Fry fought for prison reform and the first Workers’ Union was set up by a Christian preacher and his friends, fighting for fair pay, better working conditions and a day of rest.

Modern democracy is in huge debt to non-conformist Christianity, from Magna Carta with its Christian author, to the Rev. John Ball, the first great leader of a mass revolt, to Cromwell who ended the absolute rule of the Monarch and Christian parliamentarians who fought for the right for all to vote.

It was Christians who helped abolish slavery, achieve women’s suffrage, lead the civil-rights movement and drafted the Bill of Rights.

Without Christianity, the story of Europe, the United States, Canada, Australia and New Zealand and other nations would be totally different.

In Africa, Dr. David Livingstone, one of the world’s greatest explorers and humanitarians, worked to end slavery and introduce Christian values to much of the continent.

Christian leaders in their fight to end the slave trade set the template for all modern campaigning, and mass education was a significant step towards the people calling for democracy and human rights.

In the field of science, many of the founding fathers of many areas were Christians.

Christianity in addition shaped politics, which gave us laws that protected the common man, as the Bible’s teaching on the equality of all men shaped our civilisation.

Today churches still provide clubs for young people, for the elderly, mothers and toddlers’ clubs and a deep sense of community in a broken world.

In 2005, the British Prime Minister Tony Blair said, “...churches are among the most formidable campaigning organisations in history” and “...faith communities have always played a significant role in social action in Britain - in education, in welfare, in support for so many of the most vulnerable and needy in our society.”

What has Christianity has done for the world? The answer is all around us, from the laws that protect us, to the principles that guide us. It has shaped every area of our lives, yet because its influence is so huge, we take its heritage for granted and forget that Christianity was the source of this civilisation!

 

[ding]

Six Surprising Ways Jesus Changed The World | The Huffington Post

Yale historian Jeroslav Pelikan wrote, “Regardless of what anyone may personally think or believe about him, Jesus of Nazareth has been the dominant figure in the history of Western Culture for almost 20 centuries. If it were possible, with some sort of super magnet, to pull up out of history every scrap of metal bearing at least a trace of his name, how much would be left?”

In the ancient world children were routinely left to die of exposure — particularly if they were the wrong gender (you can guess which was the wrong one); they were often sold into slavery. Jesus’ treatment of and teachings about children led to the forbidding of such practices, as well as orphanages and godparents.

Love of learning led to monasteries, which became the cradle of academic guilds. Universities such as Cambridge, Oxford, and Harvard all began as Jesus-inspired efforts to love God with all ones’ mind.

Jesus had a universal concern for those who suffered that transcended the rules of the ancient world. His compassion for the poor and the sick led to institutions for lepers, the beginning of modern-day hospitals.

The ancient world honored many virtues like courage and wisdom, but not humility. People were generally divided into first class and coach. Jesus’ life as a foot-washing servant would eventually lead to the adoption of humility as a widely admired virtue. Historian John Dickson writes, “it is unlikely that any of us would aspire to this virtue were it not for the historical impact of his crucifixion...Our culture remains cruciform long after it stopped being Christian.”

Hannah Arendt, the first woman appointed to a full professorship at Princeton, claimed, “the discoverer of the role of forgiveness in the realm of human affairs was Jesus of Nazareth.”

Jesus had a way of championing the excluded that was often downright irritating to those in power. His inclusion of women led to a community to which women flocked in disproportionate numbers. The apostle Paul said: “Now there is neither Jew nor Gentile, slave or free, male and female, but all are one in Christ Jesus.” Thomas Cahill wrote that this was the first statement of egalitarianism in human literature.

 

[Papageorgio]

I see this question asked by religious folk frequently. I do disagree with some of the harsher anti-religious sentiments, at least as far as tone is concerned, but I understand exactly where those attitudes come from. Christians (speaking from the USA) have a harder time seeing the hold their religion has on our society and the actual harm it can do. When they are faced with the topic of crimes and abuses committed by other Christians, I commonly hear that the perpetrators were not "true Christians."

What is a true Christian? If a person, even if they are a criminal or an abuser (or, heck, just a run-of-the-mill wacko), professes belief in Jesus as the son of God and the savior of humanity, and accepts the Bible, then are they not a Christian? When asked how to become a Christian, is that not exactly what one is told? "To accept Jesus Christ in your heart, as your Lord, and Saviour"? The same people who are quick to point out that others are not true Christians are, more often than not, just as quick to point out the beliefs of other wrongdoers - Muslims and so-called "Satanists," for example. All people are capable of committing crimes, regardless of belief, but those who commit them in the name of their religion should not be ignored or brushed off as "not true believers." Just as it provides light and hope to some, there is a dark side to religion that people should acknowledge, too.

So back to the question of why atheists are so "toxic." Some among us have been hurt and abused by religion and religious people. Many see the religious attempting, at the expense of other people, to impose their standards of morality on others through law and social norms. Why are we told we need to "respect the beliefs of others" when ours are denigrated?

These areas are for us to freely vent our frustrations, as well as share our experiences with others of like mind. Atheists should not have to be polite about religion even in a space made for themselves. Certainly people should be able to freely believe what they like in their homes and in their hearts, but that doesn't mean religion should be free from criticism, and it doesn't mean religion is 100% good all the time. Nothing is.

Keep in mind, this is a forum for Religion and Ethics. Like it, or not, the question of ethics does not belong solely to either the religious, not to any one particular religion.

I have a relative that is an atheist, I have no issue with his beliefs, however he is constantly berating people through social media about religious beliefs. I don't understand the reason, I don't care if a person expresses a belief in a God or if they are an atheists, why does it seem to bother atheists if a person believes in a higher being?

I think for some it is an attempt to understand why another seemingly bright intelligent person would forego all rationale, and objectivity to believe in talking snakes, magic, and a zombie lord, born of a pedophiliac "god". It's just such a bizarre dichotomy... many are often compelled to probe at it, to understand what makes that person tick.

If it was an attempt to understand, why all the ripping of those that believe in a God. When it attempt to understand ones reasonings on an issue, I don't rip what they believe. I believe many opinions can co-exist and respect for a another person's beliefs is above all a sign of confidence in your own beliefs, otherwise a person wouldn't minimize a fellow human's belief or non-belief in a God.

No. No we can't. The worst, most dangerous concept that ever grew out of the liberal "Political Correctness" movement was this moronic concept that every belief must be coddled, and respected. No. It really doesn't. And, HELLO!!! This is a Progressive speaking! Not every idea that has ever come out of the Progressive movement was a good one, and this was a bad idea.

If I take you to the roof of my five-storey building, walk to the edge, and tell you, grinning like the Cheshire Cat, "Hey! Watch this. I believe I can fly!!!" Should you "respect my beliefs" and watch me jump off, or should you grab me, and say, "Hey! Fucknuts! No! You can't! There's this thing called gravity!"

Every belief has to be acknowledged, but that is not the same as being respected. I have to acknowledge that you have a belief, and that you have the right to have that belief. Then I have every right to say, "And it's fuckin retarded!" and, in some cases - particularly, if those beliefs are doing demonstrable harm to children - the responsibility to do that. But, never am I required to respect your beliefs.

I didn't say anyone was required to do anything, if you go jump off a ledge to fly, go right ahead, I am not going to try to stop you.

Don't respect my beliefs and I will respect yours, I just don't see the point in bashing others beliefs. My relative is a fruitcake, he bashes the belief in God like a religion, I see no point in bashing another belief system that you are not part of. My belief in a God does no one any harm.

 

[ding]

A review of How Christianity Changed the World. By Alvin Schmidt. - CultureWatch

It is common today for the church to be on the receiving end of much criticism. The church is blamed for many of the ills in the world, but is seldom given credit for any good it has done. Indeed, many argue that it is the church that is blocking progress to a more enlightened and peaceable world.

One gets the impression from these secular critics that Christianity has been a negative force in the world, while non-Christian and non-religious alternatives are somehow superior. However, those conversant with the historical record know better. While Christendom has had its dark moments in history, over all, it can be credibly argued that it has been a force for good in the world.

In Kenneth Scott Latourette’s massive 7-volume history of the expansion of the Christian Church, the Yale historian concluded by noting just how much good this expansion had contributed to the world.

D. James Kennedy wrote a brief volume entitled What if Jesus Had Never Been Born? The world would be much worse off, he argued, if it weren’t for this man Jesus.

The most recent and perhaps most thorough examination of the historical record is that of Alvin Schmidt. The American professor of sociology has assembled evidence from various quarters to demonstrate what a powerful influence Christianity has had on Western Civilization. In every area, be it law, government, economics, the fine arts, science, education or health care, the Christian faith has contributed enormously to the overall well-being of mankind.

He shows how Jesus has the power to transform men, who in turn are able to transform society. And on every level, that is exactly what has happened.

In spite the claims of some today that Christianity oppresses women, the historical record shows just the opposite. Women were oppressed in almost every culture prior to the coming of Christianity. By elevating sexual morality, and by conferring upon women a much higher status, the Christian religion revolutionised the place and prestige of women.

By rejecting polygyny, prostitution, homosexuality and bestiality – all common during the time – the early Christians not only sheltered women but protected children and family.

The way Jesus treated women was in stark contrast to the surrounding culture. In Roman law a man’s wife and children were little more than slaves, often treated like animals. Women had no property rights and faced severe social restrictions. Jesus of course changed all that.

We know from the New Testament documents that many women exercised various leadership roles in the early church. Indeed, during this period Christian women actually outnumbered Christian men.

Prior to Christianity, the Greeks and Romans had little or no interest in the poor, the sick and the dying. But the early Christians, following the example of their master, ministered to the needs of the whole person.

For example, the first ecumenical council at Nicea in 325 directed bishops to establish hospices in every city that had a cathedral.

Care for the mentally ill was also a Christian initiative. Nursing also sprang from Christian concerns for the sick, and many Christians have given their lives to such tasks. One thinks of Florence Nightingale, for example, and the formation of the Red Cross.

Education, while important in Greek and Roman culture, really took off institutionally under the influence of Christianity. The early Greeks and Romans had no public libraries or educational institutions – it was Christianity that established these.

Also a Christian distinctive, individuals from all social and ethnic groups were included. There was no bias based on ethnicity or class.

As another example of the Christian influence, consider the issue of work and economic life. The Greeks and Romans had a very low view of manual labour, and so it was mainly the slaves and lower classes that were forced to toil with their hands. Thus there was no such thing as the dignity of labour in these cultures, and economic freedom was only for a select few. The early church changed all this. The idea of labor as a calling, and the idea spoken by Jesus that the laborer is worthy of his wages, revolutionised the workplace. The dignity of labor, the value of hard work, and the sense of vocation, soon changed the surrounding society; the development of a middle class being one of the outcomes. The development of unions is another result. Indeed, the works of Weber and Tawney, among others, records the profound effect the Protestant Reformation has had on work and modern capitalism.

Other great achievements might be mentioned. The Western political experience, including genuine democracy at all levels of society, equality, human rights and various freedoms, all stem from the Christian religion, along with its Hebrew forebear. The rise of modern science has been directly linked with the biblical understanding of the world. The many great achievements in art, literature and music also deserve mention. For example, how much poorer would the world be without the Christian artistry of da Vinci, Michelangelo, Rembrandt, Bach, Handel, Brahms, Dante, Milton, Bunyan, and countless others?

The bottom line, as Schmidt notes, is that if Jesus Christ had never been born, to speak of Western civilisation would be incomprehensible. Indeed, there may never have been such a civilisation. The freedoms and benefits we enjoy in many modern cultures are directly due to the influence of this one man. And besides all the institutional, cultural, social, political and artistic benefits, there is one last benefit: the countless millions of changed lives due to a liberating encounter with the risen Christ. It is this benefit, first and foremost, which of course accounts for all the institutional benefits.

 

[ding]

How "Christianity" Changed the World

Still, the impact of that religion continues to be visible in Western civilization today. Historians of professing Christianity have noted that “by the Middle Ages, Christianity had shaped Western culture, and it would continue to influence culture wherever [its teachings] spread” (Seven Revolutions, Aquilina & Papandrea, pp. 6–7). The charity encouraged by biblical teachings (e.g., Luke 10:30-37) eventually blossomed into hospitals, orphanages, homes for the elderly and care for the poor, the hungry and the homeless (Schmidt, pp. 147–148). Even many of the greatest and most prominent universities of our day were originally founded for “Christian” purposes (Kennedy, p. 40).

And while critics claim the Christian religion impeded the growth of science, history says otherwise. Dr. Rodney Stark, a professor of sociology and comparative religion, states, “the leading scientific figures in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries overwhelmingly were devout Christians who believed it was their duty to comprehend God’s handiwork” (For the Glory of God, p. 123). Unlike the godless religions of Asia and the capricious gods of other faiths, the God of the Bible was a rational Being whose creation operated on laws that were discoverable and could be applied to solving problems for the benefit of mankind (Psalm 19:1; Proverbs 25:2)—an understanding “essential for the rise of science” (Stark, p. 123).

Modern, atheistic critics can scoff at the beliefs of the Bible and the superstitions of professing Christianity, but they do so while benefitting from living in a culture built on many of the beliefs they detest. While in many ways it seems on the wane for the moment, the Bible prophesies that this apostate, professing Christianity will once again rise in power, not merely to influence the world, but to conquer it (Revelation 6:1-2), on a path that will take it into conflict with the true Christianity it has sought to leave behind (Revelation 13:11-17).

And in a very real way, the turning point in history that the spread of professing Christianity represented may presage a greater turning point to come.

 

[Czernobog]

See, Ding is a perfect example of what I am talking about. He claims to be a critical thinker, while accusing others of critical theory, while engaging in critical theory himself. He just spent the last three posts cutting and pasting propaganda from sites extolling all of the virtues of Christianity, in order to present a narrative that Christianity has never had anything but a positive effect on society, or history. and ask him if Chriatianity has ever been responsible for any atrocities, or bloodshed in history, and he'll respond with, "Show me," as if he is ignorant of such.

 

[ding]

See, Ding is a perfect example of what I am talking about. He claims to be a critical thinker, while accusing others of critical theory, while engaging in critical theory himself. He just spent the last three posts cutting and pasting propaganda from sites extolling all of the virtues of Christianity, in order to present a narrative that Christianity has never had anything but a positive effect on society, or history. and ask him if Chriatianity has ever been responsible for any atrocities, or bloodshed in history, and he'll respond with, "Show me," as if he is ignorant of such.

Actually as per the instructions of the mods I have taken selected excepts from those articles and have cited their sources. You may have noticed the authorities I have quoted are historians. You may have also noticed that the purpose of this information was to describe how Christianity has shaped the world for the better. What you didn't see was a criticism of your religious belief system, atheism. So how could I have been employing critical theory when I did not criticize anything? Do you see my extolling the virtues of Christianity as an criticism of your faith. Why don't you do as I just did and show us what good atheism has done for the world?

 

[hobelim]

Christianity led to the end of murder of slaves in the coliseums of the Roman world, the beginning of healthcare for the masses and education for the common man. It brought an end to the slave trade and slavery itself. It brought workers’ rights through Lord Shaftesbury, and child protection agencies.

Christianity also birthed the Civil Rights Movement with the leader being the preacher Martin Luther King Jr. and the end of Apartheid.

Christianity in addition has had a major impact upon all European languages.

Great authors like C.S. Lewis and freedom fighters like John Knox were also inspired in the Christian tradition and helped change our world.

Christian leaders like Elizabeth Fry fought for prison reform and the first Workers’ Union was set up by a Christian preacher and his friends, fighting for fair pay, better working conditions and a day of rest.

Modern democracy is in huge debt to non-conformist Christianity, from Magna Carta with its Christian author, to the Rev. John Ball, the first great leader of a mass revolt, to Cromwell who ended the absolute rule of the Monarch and Christian parliamentarians who fought for the right for all to vote.

It was Christians who helped abolish slavery, achieve women’s suffrage, lead the civil-rights movement and drafted the Bill of Rights.

Without Christianity, the story of Europe, the United States, Canada, Australia and New Zealand and other nations would be totally different.

In Africa, Dr. David Livingstone, one of the world’s greatest explorers and humanitarians, worked to end slavery and introduce Christian values to much of the continent.

Christian leaders in their fight to end the slave trade set the template for all modern campaigning, and mass education was a significant step towards the people calling for democracy and human rights.

In the field of science, many of the founding fathers of many areas were Christians.

Christianity in addition shaped politics, which gave us laws that protected the common man, as the Bible’s teaching on the equality of all men shaped our civilisation.

Today churches still provide clubs for young people, for the elderly, mothers and toddlers’ clubs and a deep sense of community in a broken world.

In 2005, the British Prime Minister Tony Blair said, “...churches are among the most formidable campaigning organisations in history” and “...faith communities have always played a significant role in social action in Britain - in education, in welfare, in support for so many of the most vulnerable and needy in our society.”

What has Christianity has done for the world? The answer is all around us, from the laws that protect us, to the principles that guide us. It has shaped every area of our lives, yet because its influence is so huge, we take its heritage for granted and forget that Christianity was the source of this civilisation!

Not bad.

If Christians, as goofy and confused as you are, have managed to do some good things, just imagine how many more and much better things you could do if only you cleansed your addled minds from every form of falsehood, perversity, and archaic superstition while you are waiting for Jesus to tie your shoes.

 

[ding]

The Romans thought that helping the sick was a sign of weakness. The early Christians saw it as doing it to Christ Himself. And they saw the saving of lives as another way to save souls as well.

By the 6th century A.D. most of the larger cities of Christendom had hospitals. And they were the first known voluntary charitable institutions. Later in history, the first Protestant hospital was built at Kaiserwerth in Germany. It is at this institution that Florence Nightingale received her training. The story of Florence Nightingale is still, to this day, an inspiration to any person who would pursue the noble profession of nursing.

John Henry Dunant was a Christian, who with four associates, founded the American Red Cross in 1864. Dunant also negotiated the Geneva convention for the care and treatment of wounded soldiers and was the co-winner of the first Nobel Prize for Peace in 1901.

Other Bible believing Christians in the 18th and 19th centuries were responsible for much good. They tackled a wide variety of social issues such as illiteracy, the abolition of slavery, adult education, treatment of alcoholics and prison reform. It was in 1844 that the Young Men's Christian Association was formed, followed by the YWCA ten years later. And in 1865 a London minister, William Booth left his pastorate to take his message to the streets to reach the poor, the homeless , the destitute and the hungry. Today the Salvation Army is in 106 nations around the world.

What has Christianity done for the World?

 

[ding]

Christianity led to the end of murder of slaves in the coliseums of the Roman world, the beginning of healthcare for the masses and education for the common man. It brought an end to the slave trade and slavery itself. It brought workers’ rights through Lord Shaftesbury, and child protection agencies.

Christianity also birthed the Civil Rights Movement with the leader being the preacher Martin Luther King Jr. and the end of Apartheid.

Christianity in addition has had a major impact upon all European languages.

Great authors like C.S. Lewis and freedom fighters like John Knox were also inspired in the Christian tradition and helped change our world.

Christian leaders like Elizabeth Fry fought for prison reform and the first Workers’ Union was set up by a Christian preacher and his friends, fighting for fair pay, better working conditions and a day of rest.

Modern democracy is in huge debt to non-conformist Christianity, from Magna Carta with its Christian author, to the Rev. John Ball, the first great leader of a mass revolt, to Cromwell who ended the absolute rule of the Monarch and Christian parliamentarians who fought for the right for all to vote.

It was Christians who helped abolish slavery, achieve women’s suffrage, lead the civil-rights movement and drafted the Bill of Rights.

Without Christianity, the story of Europe, the United States, Canada, Australia and New Zealand and other nations would be totally different.

In Africa, Dr. David Livingstone, one of the world’s greatest explorers and humanitarians, worked to end slavery and introduce Christian values to much of the continent.

Christian leaders in their fight to end the slave trade set the template for all modern campaigning, and mass education was a significant step towards the people calling for democracy and human rights.

In the field of science, many of the founding fathers of many areas were Christians.

Christianity in addition shaped politics, which gave us laws that protected the common man, as the Bible’s teaching on the equality of all men shaped our civilisation.

Today churches still provide clubs for young people, for the elderly, mothers and toddlers’ clubs and a deep sense of community in a broken world.

In 2005, the British Prime Minister Tony Blair said, “...churches are among the most formidable campaigning organisations in history” and “...faith communities have always played a significant role in social action in Britain - in education, in welfare, in support for so many of the most vulnerable and needy in our society.”

What has Christianity has done for the world? The answer is all around us, from the laws that protect us, to the principles that guide us. It has shaped every area of our lives, yet because its influence is so huge, we take its heritage for granted and forget that Christianity was the source of this civilisation!

Not bad.

If Christians, as goofy and confused as you are, have managed to do some good things, just imagine how many more and much better things you could do if only you cleansed your addled minds from every form of falsehood, perversity, and archaic superstition while you are waiting for Jesus to tie your shoes.

I see, the old you could have been better argument.

 

[ding]

Jesus was not discriminatory in who he taught. Both men and women came under his instruction. And later in history it was bishops who taught things like doctrine, rhetoric, logic, math, geometry, music, grammar and astronomy. During the Reformation men like Luther and Calvin advocated, universal state sponsored education. It was Luther who told authorities that children should be compelled to attend school. Now the Western world has this concept in their laws.

Benedictine monks were the people who started the universities in the twelfth and thirteenth centuries. And some of the most respected universities in the world today began as Christian institutions: Harvard and Yale for example. The interesting thing is that all the way up through 1932, out of 182 colleges in the United states, 168 of them were founded by Christian denominations.

What has Christianity done for the World?

 

[hobelim]

Not bad.

If Christians, as goofy and confused as you are, have managed to do some good things, just imagine how many more and much better things you could do if only you cleansed your addled minds from every form of falsehood, perversity, and archaic superstition while you are waiting for Jesus to tie your shoes.

I see, the old you could have been better argument.

What argument?

Do you doubt that if Christians weren't wasting much of their lives waiting for Jesus to come down from the sky and tie their shoes instead of doing what he told you to do a very long time ago the world would already be a much better place?

 

[ding]

I see this question asked by religious folk frequently. I do disagree with some of the harsher anti-religious sentiments, at least as far as tone is concerned, but I understand exactly where those attitudes come from. Christians (speaking from the USA) have a harder time seeing the hold their religion has on our society and the actual harm it can do. When they are faced with the topic of crimes and abuses committed by other Christians, I commonly hear that the perpetrators were not "true Christians."

What is a true Christian? If a person, even if they are a criminal or an abuser (or, heck, just a run-of-the-mill wacko), professes belief in Jesus as the son of God and the savior of humanity, and accepts the Bible, then are they not a Christian? When asked how to become a Christian, is that not exactly what one is told? "To accept Jesus Christ in your heart, as your Lord, and Saviour"? The same people who are quick to point out that others are not true Christians are, more often than not, just as quick to point out the beliefs of other wrongdoers - Muslims and so-called "Satanists," for example. All people are capable of committing crimes, regardless of belief, but those who commit them in the name of their religion should not be ignored or brushed off as "not true believers." Just as it provides light and hope to some, there is a dark side to religion that people should acknowledge, too.

So back to the question of why atheists are so "toxic." Some among us have been hurt and abused by religion and religious people. Many see the religious attempting, at the expense of other people, to impose their standards of morality on others through law and social norms. Why are we told we need to "respect the beliefs of others" when ours are denigrated?

These areas are for us to freely vent our frustrations, as well as share our experiences with others of like mind. Atheists should not have to be polite about religion even in a space made for themselves. Certainly people should be able to freely believe what they like in their homes and in their hearts, but that doesn't mean religion should be free from criticism, and it doesn't mean religion is 100% good all the time. Nothing is.

Keep in mind, this is a forum for Religion and Ethics. Like it, or not, the question of ethics does not belong solely to either the religious, not to any one particular religion.

Atheists aren't toxic. Militant atheists maybe, but not atheists in general.

This is pretty simple, you are here for the express purpose of ridiculing people who don't think like you do. You actively seek out these situations in an attempt to subordinate religion. What did I get wrong?

... and out comes the persecution complex...

That is exactly the argument that a bully would make after he was called out for being a bully. I've dealt with more than a few bullies in my life. I give them one chance, then I punch them in the throat and smash their knee with my foot. They aren't so tough after that.

 

[Vastator]

I see this question asked by religious folk frequently. I do disagree with some of the harsher anti-religious sentiments, at least as far as tone is concerned, but I understand exactly where those attitudes come from. Christians (speaking from the USA) have a harder time seeing the hold their religion has on our society and the actual harm it can do. When they are faced with the topic of crimes and abuses committed by other Christians, I commonly hear that the perpetrators were not "true Christians."

What is a true Christian? If a person, even if they are a criminal or an abuser (or, heck, just a run-of-the-mill wacko), professes belief in Jesus as the son of God and the savior of humanity, and accepts the Bible, then are they not a Christian? When asked how to become a Christian, is that not exactly what one is told? "To accept Jesus Christ in your heart, as your Lord, and Saviour"? The same people who are quick to point out that others are not true Christians are, more often than not, just as quick to point out the beliefs of other wrongdoers - Muslims and so-called "Satanists," for example. All people are capable of committing crimes, regardless of belief, but those who commit them in the name of their religion should not be ignored or brushed off as "not true believers." Just as it provides light and hope to some, there is a dark side to religion that people should acknowledge, too.

So back to the question of why atheists are so "toxic." Some among us have been hurt and abused by religion and religious people. Many see the religious attempting, at the expense of other people, to impose their standards of morality on others through law and social norms. Why are we told we need to "respect the beliefs of others" when ours are denigrated?

These areas are for us to freely vent our frustrations, as well as share our experiences with others of like mind. Atheists should not have to be polite about religion even in a space made for themselves. Certainly people should be able to freely believe what they like in their homes and in their hearts, but that doesn't mean religion should be free from criticism, and it doesn't mean religion is 100% good all the time. Nothing is.

Keep in mind, this is a forum for Religion and Ethics. Like it, or not, the question of ethics does not belong solely to either the religious, not to any one particular religion.

Atheists aren't toxic. Militant atheists maybe, but not atheists in general.

This is pretty simple, you are here for the express purpose of ridiculing people who don't think like you do. You actively seek out these situations in an attempt to subordinate religion. What did I get wrong?

... and out comes the persecution complex...

That is exactly the argument that a bully would make after he was called out for being a bully. I've dealt with more than a few bullies in my life. I give them one chance, then I punch them in the throat and smash their knee with my foot. They aren't so tough after that.

Of course you do princess... Of course you do...

 

[ding]

Not bad.

If Christians, as goofy and confused as you are, have managed to do some good things, just imagine how many more and much better things you could do if only you cleansed your addled minds from every form of falsehood, perversity, and archaic superstition while you are waiting for Jesus to tie your shoes.

I see, the old you could have been better argument.

What argument?

Do you doubt that if Christians weren't wasting much of their lives waiting for Jesus to come down from the sky and tie their shoes instead of doing what he told you to do a very long time ago the world would already be a much better place?

If you can't understand the argument you just made in your post immediately before this one, I doubt I will be able to make you see it, but I have no doubt that others will not miss it or your obtuseness when it was brought to your attention.

 

[ding]

Atheists aren't toxic. Militant atheists maybe, but not atheists in general.

This is pretty simple, you are here for the express purpose of ridiculing people who don't think like you do. You actively seek out these situations in an attempt to subordinate religion. What did I get wrong?

... and out comes the persecution complex...

That is exactly the argument that a bully would make after he was called out for being a bully. I've dealt with more than a few bullies in my life. I give them one chance, then I punch them in the throat and smash their knee with my foot. They aren't so tough after that.

Of course you do princess... Of course you do...

Thank you for proving my point. Some people are not willing to take responsibility for their behavior and blame everyone else.

 

[Czernobog]

This is pretty simple, you are here for the express purpose of ridiculing people who don't think like you do. You actively seek out these situations in an attempt to subordinate religion. What did I get wrong?

... and out comes the persecution complex...

That is exactly the argument that a bully would make after he was called out for being a bully. I've dealt with more than a few bullies in my life. I give them one chance, then I punch them in the throat and smash their knee with my foot. They aren't so tough after that.

Of course you do princess... Of course you do...

Thank you for proving my point. Some people are not willing to take responsibility for their behavior and blame everyone else.

I dunno... Isn't that rather the same response as all of the "snowflake" posts over there in the political forums? So, are all those Trump supporters bullies?

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[ding]

This is pretty simple, you are here for the express purpose of ridiculing people who don't think like you do. You actively seek out these situations in an attempt to subordinate religion. What did I get wrong?

... and out comes the persecution complex...

That is exactly the argument that a bully would make after he was called out for being a bully. I've dealt with more than a few bullies in my life. I give them one chance, then I punch them in the throat and smash their knee with my foot. They aren't so tough after that.

Of course you do princess... Of course you do...

Thank you for proving my point. Some people are not willing to take responsibility for their behavior and blame everyone else.

I dunno... Isn't that rather the same response as all of the "snowflake" posts over there in the political forums? So, are all those Trump supporters bullies?

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Maybe. It depends on what the post was prior to that. Give me an example and I'll let you know.

 

[Czernobog]

See, Ding is a perfect example of what I am talking about. He claims to be a critical thinker, while accusing others of critical theory, while engaging in critical theory himself. He just spent the last three posts cutting and pasting propaganda from sites extolling all of the virtues of Christianity, in order to present a narrative that Christianity has never had anything but a positive effect on society, or history. and ask him if Chriatianity has ever been responsible for any atrocities, or bloodshed in history, and he'll respond with, "Show me," as if he is ignorant of such.

Actually as per the instructions of the mods I have taken selected excepts from those articles and have cited their sources. You may have noticed the authorities I have quoted are historians. You may have also noticed that the purpose of this information was to describe how Christianity has shaped the world for the better. What you didn't see was a criticism of your religious belief system, atheism. So how could I have been employing critical theory when I did not criticize anything? Do you see my extolling the virtues of Christianity as an criticism of your faith. Why don't you do as I just did and show us what good atheism has done for the world?

That's rather a trick question, and you know it. The reality is that atheism is a relatively new idea. We are, by nature, a superstitious race. We fear what we do not understand, and, because we have imaginations, it is easy for us to imagine monsters, and boogeymen. so, we create Gods, and superheroes to fight them. Was Christianity the predominate religion during much of the development of Western Civilization? Yup. However, it doesn't necessarily follow that "Christianity" was "responsible" for those advancements.

For instance. Galileo was a Catholic, and he invented the telescope, and provided us with the Heliocentric model of the solar system that allowed astronomers to make untold advancements in the field. Is Christianity to be credited for those advancements?

 

[Czernobog]

Back top your question of what Atheism has accomplished, right now, Atheism is still in its relative infancy. We are just fighting to exist, be recognised, and have a right to exist. We are fighting to bring the world to reason, and out of the stranglehold of myth. Should we succeed, who knows what will be accomplished in a world of reason, and fact, without reliance on myth, or irrational superstition?

I, for one, do not begrudge anything that was accomplished under the yolk of Christianity. I simply submit that Christianity had its time. It served its purpose. it is time to let go of superstition, and move into the light of reason.