Why aren't the anti-choice people against birth control pills.

[DiamondDave]

Regardless the idea that the spark of life miraculously arrives due to a mundane event like implantation is preposterous.

Do you know the criteria for life?? Do you know at which stage those criteria start happening in human development??

Please educate me.

Do you agree that a life must be able to feed or 'take nourishment'? Do you agree that life must be able to adapt to environment? Do you agree that life must react? Do you agree that it must be able to develop a metabolism?? Do you agree it must have a growth period? The list goes on

While some of the criteria happen upon fertilization, not all can until the action of implantation....

Kind of like DNA of itself is not 'alive'... but when in the proper situation and placed into a viable egg/cell in the proper situation, the DNA can be cloned into a copy of the original organism...

Pregnancy (and hence life) actually begins at implantation... pregnancy does not happen at fertilization or ovulation or ejaculation.... this is pretty widely accepted

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Do you agree that a life must be able to feed or 'take nourishment'?

So Terry Schiavo did not qualify as life?

 

[DiamondDave]

No.. it is a part of you... it in itself is not alive.... it is not feeding... it is not changing to environment.... it will never have the possibility of surviving on its own... if you cannot tell the difference between an independent or developing life and an internal organ, then you indeed need some help

so we're talking about it being 'potentially human'...

or if you order chicken, can i serve you eggs... you know, since it's all the same.

You could give me a chicken embryo and call it chicken.. for technically it is... though it is not fully developed into the independent functioning chicken that we are used to seeing in a far yard

 

[Si modo]

Do you know the criteria for life?? Do you know at which stage those criteria start happening in human development??

Please educate me.

Do you agree that a life must be able to feed or 'take nourishment'? Do you agree that life must be able to adapt to environment? Do you agree that life must react? Do you agree that it must be able to develop a metabolism?? Do you agree it must have a growth period? The list goes on
....

All of that occurs with a fertilized egg before implantation.

 

[Si modo]

Do you agree that a life must be able to feed or 'take nourishment'?

So Terry Schiavo did not qualify as life?

Try to focus on your own OP.

 

[DiamondDave]

Do you agree that a life must be able to feed or 'take nourishment'?

So Terry Schiavo did not qualify as life?

Knew that was going to come... you are so predictable...

The act of taking nourishment or having a metabolism does not mean it is a conscious action of chewing, swallowing, tasting, etc.. but it indeed must process nutrition

Nice try... epic fail, troll

 

[DiamondDave]

Please educate me.

Do you agree that a life must be able to feed or 'take nourishment'? Do you agree that life must be able to adapt to environment? Do you agree that life must react? Do you agree that it must be able to develop a metabolism?? Do you agree it must have a growth period? The list goes on
....

All of that occurs with a fertilized egg before implantation.

No... it does not.... are you seriously trying to tell me a fertilized egg is able to feed before implantation? Are you seriously trying to tell me that it is reacting and adapting on its own before the exchanges that happen upon implantation?

You are just flat out wrong

 

[Screaming Eagle]

Do you know the criteria for life?? Do you know at which stage those criteria start happening in human development??

Please educate me.

Do you agree that a life must be able to feed or 'take nourishment'?

Fertilized eggs-pre-implantation do this.

Do you agree that life must be able to adapt to environment?

Fertilized eggs-pre-implantation do this.

Do you agree that life must react?

Fertilized eggs-pre-implantation do this.

Do you agree that it must be able to develop a metabolism??

While this does not occur for many months, a fertilized egg is certainly able to, eventually. This is not a good question.

Do you agree it must have a growth period?

Fertilized eggs-pre-implantation do this.

The list goes on

While some of the criteria happen upon fertilization, not all can until the action of implantation....

Kind of like DNA of itself is not 'alive'... but when in the proper situation and placed into a viable egg/cell in the proper situation, the DNA can be cloned into a copy of the original organism...

Pregnancy (and hence life) actually begins at implantation... pregnancy does not happen at fertilization or ovulation or ejaculation.... this is pretty widely accepted

I don't think your point is valid, prior to implantation fertilized eggs draw sustenance from their environment and undergo cell division or 'growth'.

 

[Si modo]

Do you agree that a life must be able to feed or 'take nourishment'? Do you agree that life must be able to adapt to environment? Do you agree that life must react? Do you agree that it must be able to develop a metabolism?? Do you agree it must have a growth period? The list goes on
....

All of that occurs with a fertilized egg before implantation.

No... it does not.... are you seriously trying to tell me a fertilized egg is able to feed before implantation? Are you seriously trying to tell me that it is reacting and adapting on its own before the exchanges that happen upon implantation?
....

Umm, yes I am.

Or, do you think feeding is something other than the take up of nutrients?

We'll just start with the feeding for now.

 

[Cuyo]

I don't know what an "anti-choicer" would be. I guess if I am against murder then I am for restricting the choice of people to go out and waste innocent people. Shame on me, big hypocrite.
It's a difference between intending to do something and not intending. No one taking the pill intends to have an abortion in the process. It is a failure of the normal process. Someone going to a clinic to have an abortion intends on killing the baby. That isn't a failure. Failure would be if the baby lives.

It's grand to use the term "murder" when talking about abortion, isn't it? What do you call it when the fertilization clinic cleans out its freezer? Mass murder?

"Murder"! The next to last refuge of a scoundrel. When that bit of hyperbole fails, you can always fall back on "patriotism".

It is an accurate although uncomfortable term. The baby is certainly alive in a way that someone's spleen is not.
In any case, if I hit a woman with my car and she miscarries I will be charged with murder (manslaughter might be more accurate). If I miss her and she goes on her way to the abortion clinic and "terminates the pregnancy" (so both sides engage in creative use of language) then that is constitutionally protected.
That makes sense why?

Cause it ain't your body, dummy!

 

[DiamondDave]

No... fertilized eggs pre implantation do not feed or take nourishment

Pre implantation the fertilized eggs do not adapt or react

Metabolism is indeed part of the criteria as it is a result of taking nourishment and it starts happening one nourishment is taken

And yes, fertilized eggs divide and grow to a certain point

 

[DiamondDave]

All of that occurs with a fertilized egg before implantation.

No... it does not.... are you seriously trying to tell me a fertilized egg is able to feed before implantation? Are you seriously trying to tell me that it is reacting and adapting on its own before the exchanges that happen upon implantation?
....

Umm, yes I am.

Or, do you think feeding is something other than the take up of nutrients?

We'll just start with the feeding for now.

And what, pray-tell, do you suggest the fertilized egg (not implanted) is feeding on and by what mechanism is it feeding

(this ought to be good).... I am actually speaking to my mom who has been in OB/GYN and NNICU for DECADES... and she is laughing her ass off

 

[Si modo]

All of that occurs with a fertilized egg before implantation.

No... it does not.... are you seriously trying to tell me a fertilized egg is able to feed before implantation? Are you seriously trying to tell me that it is reacting and adapting on its own before the exchanges that happen upon implantation?
....

Umm, yes I am.

Or, do you think feeding is something other than the take up of nutrients?

We'll just start with the feeding for now.

No... fertilized eggs pre implantation do not feed or take nourishment
....

Wrong.

 

[Screaming Eagle]

No... fertilized eggs pre implantation do not feed or take nourishment

Pre implantation the fertilized eggs do not adapt or react

Metabolism is indeed part of the criteria as it is a result of taking nourishment and it starts happening one nourishment is taken

And yes, fertilized eggs divide and grow to a certain point

If they did not adapt or react there would be no implantation. If they did not take up nutrients they would not undergo cell division.

Maybe a web link will help.

When does the fertilized egg implant? - Pregnancy Articles

When the fertilized egg attaches itself to the uterine wall and begins to produce hCG it is called implantation. This typically occurs between 6 and 8 days after ovulation.

The egg is fertilized in the outer part of the fallopian tube, generally within 12 hours of ovulation. After it is fertilized, the egg travels down the fallopian tube. The fertilized egg grows as it travels. It doubles, the grows to four cells and then to eight cells as it enters the uterus.

Implantation occurs in the upper third of the uterus.

 

[DiamondDave]

Umm, yes I am.

Or, do you think feeding is something other than the take up of nutrients?

We'll just start with the feeding for now.

No... fertilized eggs pre implantation do not feed or take nourishment
....

Wrong.

WRONG

What is the outside food or nourishment source that is being consumed?? The outside source does not become present until it is implanted somewhere in the woman's body.... Usually the uterus but as shown there have been implantations to blood vessels and other areas of the body...

Much like in other cases with items/life forms using stored initial potential energy to sustain... (for example a seed in a vacuum) while when planted in a viable situation it will begin to feed, it is not feeding until that point..... kind of also like you having the potential to see, but that does not happen until you actually open your eyes.... the fertilized egg, given the proper situations and events, does have the potential to become a human life.... but until implantation, that cannot and does not happen

 

[Screaming Eagle]

Another article for dave the second one is really good-it talks about how it grows(from taking nutrients from its environment):
Conception and Pregnancy: What Happens At Conception? | Ovulation Calculator

Following penetration of the sperm into the ovum, the egg is fertilized and becomes an embryo. However, cell division and implantation of the egg must take place for conception to be successful.

Implantation of the Egg and Implantation Bleeding
Once the embryo attains the blastocyst stage a few days after fertilization, it begins the process of implantation. Implantation is the process of the embryo attaching itself to the uterine wall or uterine lining.

How Long From Conception Is Implantation?

Once the egg is fertilized, it will travel to the uterus for implantation. As it travels, it will continue to grow in size, its cells dividing and reproducing. The process of traveling and implanting will take somewhere around 7 to 10 days altogether.

 

[Si modo]

No... fertilized eggs pre implantation do not feed or take nourishment
....

Wrong.

WRONG

What is the outside food or nourishment source that is being consumed??
....

Ummm, glucose. The information is right there in the link (that was even the first freaking line. )

 

[Screaming Eagle]

It is ok to admit it when you are wrong, Dave. Or you can change definitions again.

 

[DiamondDave]

No... fertilized eggs pre implantation do not feed or take nourishment

Pre implantation the fertilized eggs do not adapt or react

Metabolism is indeed part of the criteria as it is a result of taking nourishment and it starts happening one nourishment is taken

And yes, fertilized eggs divide and grow to a certain point

If they did not adapt or react there would be no implantation. If they did not take up nutrients they would not undergo cell division.

Maybe a web link will help.

When does the fertilized egg implant? - Pregnancy Articles

When the fertilized egg attaches itself to the uterine wall and begins to produce hCG it is called implantation. This typically occurs between 6 and 8 days after ovulation.

The egg is fertilized in the outer part of the fallopian tube, generally within 12 hours of ovulation. After it is fertilized, the egg travels down the fallopian tube. The fertilized egg grows as it travels. It doubles, the grows to four cells and then to eight cells as it enters the uterus.

Implantation occurs in the upper third of the uterus.

Cell division is growth from stored energy.... that is not taking nutrients or feeding

There is no reaction until there is contact and implantation in the uterus, until the mother's host womb creates the connection to start feeding and nourishing.... if there were reaction and adaptation without implantation, it would continue to do so.. it does not

 

[Si modo]

No... fertilized eggs pre implantation do not feed or take nourishment

Pre implantation the fertilized eggs do not adapt or react

Metabolism is indeed part of the criteria as it is a result of taking nourishment and it starts happening one nourishment is taken

And yes, fertilized eggs divide and grow to a certain point

If they did not adapt or react there would be no implantation. If they did not take up nutrients they would not undergo cell division.

Maybe a web link will help.

When does the fertilized egg implant? - Pregnancy Articles

When the fertilized egg attaches itself to the uterine wall and begins to produce hCG it is called implantation. This typically occurs between 6 and 8 days after ovulation.

The egg is fertilized in the outer part of the fallopian tube, generally within 12 hours of ovulation. After it is fertilized, the egg travels down the fallopian tube. The fertilized egg grows as it travels. It doubles, the grows to four cells and then to eight cells as it enters the uterus.

Implantation occurs in the upper third of the uterus.

Cell division is growth from stored energy.... that is not taking nutrients or feeding

There is no reaction until there is contact and implantation in the uterus, until the mother's host womb creates the connection to start feeding and nourishing.... if there were reaction and adaptation without implantation, it would continue to do so.. it does not

Cell division does not occur without nutrients. The zygote requires glucose to continue survival.