Why aren't the anti-choice people against birth control pills.

[DiamondDave]

Does the life of a human being begin at conception? yes or no?

You have been answered so many times.. but you insist on being like a 2 year old with your fingers in your ears going "la la la la la la la"

Crawl back under your rock

No, I can't find a single one of your posts with a simple "yes" or "no" answer to the question. All you do is avoid answering the question.

Maybe I'm wrong. If so, please, refresh my memory, does human life begin at conception? Yes or No?








Also - does this mean embryonic stem cell research is morally acceptable?

Since an embryo is implanted in the uterine wall and is a developing human life... no, I do not support harvesting of aborted humans in stem cell research... and I do not find it appealing to create fertilized eggs to begin cell division for medical research, but I find it hard to go against research of 'left over' fertilized eggs from the process of invitro fertilization as they have never gone thru implantation to start the necessary aspects of life

 

[teapartysamurai]

does life begin at conception? I was never clear on your answer.

the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....

Are you clear yet, idiot?

i did not ask when the "neccessary parts for life" began.



i quite simply asked whether or not human life began at conception. That is a yes or no question and you refuse to answer.

See liberals can't deal with facts. They want you all to stay within their narrow minded view and demand YOU ABIDE BY THOSE RULES.

You are only allowed to answer AS THEY DICTATE and you are not allowed to veer one way or another.

Sorry, but reality doesn't work that way Tuba. We don't have to play JUST BY YOUR RULES.

 

[teapartysamurai]

Why shouldn't a woman be executed for having an abortion? You wouldn't have a problem with the death penalty if she was guilty of premeditated murder of a 2 year old?

I thought a fetus wasn't any different than a person.

In many states the murder of a child is automatically 1st degree murder. I fail to see how a premeditated murder of a baby human being 1 month before its born should not be 1st degree but 1 minute after its born is.

Agreed

Agreed and agreed.

 

[DiamondDave]

Does life begin at conception? I was never clear on your answer.

Do you understand that the part of a pregnancy that includes implementation.

Yes.

Why is it I have no trouble answering yes/no questions, but you and DiamondDave can't seem to comprehend?

Does life begin at conception?

Human life begins at implantation... as shown to you because that is the point where the necessary parts for life happen, not before...

HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT IMPLANTATION
HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT IMPLANTATION
HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT IMPLANTATION
HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT IMPLANTATION
HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT IMPLANTATION
HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT IMPLANTATION
HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT IMPLANTATION
HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT IMPLANTATION
HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT IMPLANTATION
HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT IMPLANTATION
HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT IMPLANTATION
HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT IMPLANTATION
HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT IMPLANTATION
HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT IMPLANTATION
HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT IMPLANTATION
HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT IMPLANTATION
HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT IMPLANTATION
HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT IMPLANTATION
the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....

You are fucking thick as a brick

 

[Screaming Eagle]

But like I said THAT is RU486.

Now, I AGREE. That when the pill fails and they go to the RU486 to stop the pregnancy, THAT IS ABORTION.

But, for example, I'm pro-life and I would not use RU486.

The op is supplying a straw dog. Claiming those that are pro-life would use RU 486, when the truth is pro-lifers are against RU486 as am I.

There is a huge difference between preventing ovulation and killing a conceived embryo.

But he is trying to confuse the two things. I see no evidence from the op or anywhere in the thread that pro-lifers, like myself, are for or would use RU-486.

Birth control (in my own case) has failed twice. Their ages are now 20 and 12. Never regret having them either.

hahahaha, you are offering your own experiential evidence that breakthrough ovulation does occur while on birth control and still claiming it doesn't happen.

Nice.

The problem with your argument is, I don't USE birth control dumbass!



Just because I am arguing birth control is not the same thing as abortion does not mean I USE the pill or any other method. I don't.

When I said birth control, I meant NATURAL birth control, not the pill.

My mistake then, it seemed you meant otherwise.

Birth control (pills, etc) work by one of three mechanisms to "prevent" pregnancy:

1. Prevent ovulation from taking place
2. Thickening of the cervical mucus
3. Prevent implantation

Not all mechanisms operate perfectly all the time. Sometimes(10-50% of the time depending on the product) a breakthrough ovulation occurs and then one of the other mechanisms will "prevent" pregnancy. Sometimes they all fail. It is specifically the instance in which mechanisms 1 and 2 fail and 3 does not that is being referred to here.

It is true that a woman on birth control can ovulate, her egg can be fertilized, and then it will not implant in the uterine wall due to the action of the birth control pill.

 

[teapartysamurai]

Ummm, you're still not getting it. I am NOT talking about an egg - I am talking about a fertlized egg when telling you how the COCP (the Pill) works.

AGAIN, the COCP also prevents implantaion of the fertilized egg. It KILLS the fertilized egg (if it fails in preventing the fertilization).

No you are not getting it. SAME THING HAPPENS to a LOT of fertilized eggs. Not every fertilized egg results in a pregnancy. Like I said, same thing happens when one is already pregnant. SAME HORMONES.

As Dave pointed out. You aren't pregnant until the egg is implemented in the womb. Until then, the egg is going to die anyway.

Why do you keep talking about an egg when trying to refute the fact that the COCP will prevent implantation of a fertilized egg?

Why do you keep talking about having sex during pregnancy when one does not ovluate? One can certainly ovulate while taking the Pill because of its high fail rate in preventing ovulation.

The COCP WILL prevent implantion of the fertilized egg and it's OK to 'unnaturally' kill that fertilized egg with you. Why is that OK with you?

You are assuming I am "OK" with the pill. I am not. One of the reasons I don't use the pill.

I am simply explaining WHY I don't consider it the same as abortion. Because it uses the same hormones the body naturally uses to prevent pregnancy.

But there is a huge difference between surgically (or medically via a pill) detaching a viable implanted pregnancy, and preventing that pregnancy from ever occuring.

That's the difference between the pill and RU486 (and abortion).

A fertilized egg is not an automatic pregnancy.

 

[Screaming Eagle]

Do you understand that the part of a pregnancy that includes implementation.

Yes.

Why is it I have no trouble answering yes/no questions, but you and DiamondDave can't seem to comprehend?

Does life begin at conception?

Human life begins at implantation... as shown to you because that is the point where the necessary parts for life happen, not before...

HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT IMPLANTATION
HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT IMPLANTATION
HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT IMPLANTATION
HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT IMPLANTATION
HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT IMPLANTATION
HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT IMPLANTATION
HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT IMPLANTATION
HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT IMPLANTATION
HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT IMPLANTATION
HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT IMPLANTATION
HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT IMPLANTATION
HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT IMPLANTATION
HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT IMPLANTATION
HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT IMPLANTATION
HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT IMPLANTATION
HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT IMPLANTATION
HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT IMPLANTATION
HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT IMPLANTATION
the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....

You are fucking thick as a brick

You can believe that if you want, no one has said you can't. Do you also believe that embryonic stem cell research is ok?

 

[Reidlr]

In the rare chance an egg is produced while a woman is on birth control, the birth control pill will often cause a fertilized egg - in other words - a HUMAN BEING - to fail to attach to the uterine wall. This results in an abortion.

Why is it OK to kill an embryo right after conception with a birth control pill, but not anything else?

After reading some of your posts in the past two days, I have become accustomed to your over politicization and biased comments; however, you are politicizing an issue that shouldn't be. Then again, it really isn't your fault; most American's have been raised to politicize almost everything. That is the failure of our two party system, but that is a different discussion. Your use of "anti-choicer" is an extreme over politicization of a person's opinion with regards to a woman's choice to abort her fetus. Pro-life and pro-choice are bad enough, but to develop your own unrecognized biased term to describe an individual who does not support abortion only demonstrates your inability to think outside of what you are told by your political party of choice.

An abortion is the removal of a fetus from the womb. According to scientific analysis and opinions of experts in the healthcare industry, a fetus, for humans, is a developing offspring from 8 weeks of gestation up until birth. Therefore, to group birth control pills into the same catagory as an abortion is just asinine. Contrary to your uneducated opinion; most birth control pills prevent embryogenises from occuring, not an abortion as you have claimed. There are, of course, birth control choices that do halt embryogenises after it has already begun (ie. morning after pill).

IMHO Roe v Wade should be overturned. I believe that the federal government should not be involved in the abortion debate and that the States and ultimately the people should be able to vote on such matters. Some of you in here will tell me that the Bill of Rights suggests that the "Right to Privacy" is understood but not mentioned and therefore the federal government has every right to rule on abortion and a women's right to choose. Beginning with President FDR, the US Constitution has been "interpreted" to assist in the passing of whatever legislation has been introduced that did not have the public's overwhelming approval. IMHO, the abortion issue was another that was politicized due to political pressures in Washington. From 1970-1973, four political women's rights groups were formed. Prior to these four groups, women's rights were only represented in civil groups. Remember also, that desegregation was still being implemented and we were recovering from the divide in the country from the Vietnam War and of course Nixon's Watergate scandle. SCOTUS was controled by President Eisenhower appointees and Republicans held a 5/4 majority over Democratic appointees. With all of the pressure from American's and the political pressure on the Republican party, SCOTUS had no other choice but to vote in favor of women's rights.

 

[DiamondDave]

Yes.

Why is it I have no trouble answering yes/no questions, but you and DiamondDave can't seem to comprehend?

Does life begin at conception?

Human life begins at implantation... as shown to you because that is the point where the necessary parts for life happen, not before...

HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT IMPLANTATION
HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT IMPLANTATION
HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT IMPLANTATION
HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT IMPLANTATION
HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT IMPLANTATION
HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT IMPLANTATION
HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT IMPLANTATION
HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT IMPLANTATION
HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT IMPLANTATION
HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT IMPLANTATION
HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT IMPLANTATION
HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT IMPLANTATION
HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT IMPLANTATION
HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT IMPLANTATION
HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT IMPLANTATION
HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT IMPLANTATION
HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT IMPLANTATION
HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT IMPLANTATION
the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....the necessary parts for life do not take place until implantation....

You are fucking thick as a brick

You can believe that if you want, no one has said you can't. Do you also believe that embryonic stem cell research is ok?

Already answered

 

[SpidermanTuba]

HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT IMPLANTATION

Thank you thank you for finally answering in plain english! Although I would note that a simple "No" would have sufficed!

Now that we've established a fertilized human embryo - with a unique set of human DNA from its father and mother - is NOT a human life until it implants - does this mean embryonic stem cell research is morally acceptable? In fact, we can send off to the gas chambers as many billions of fertilized human embryos as we please and God won't mind, so long as they haven't implanted?

 

[teapartysamurai]

hahahaha, you are offering your own experiential evidence that breakthrough ovulation does occur while on birth control and still claiming it doesn't happen.

Nice.

The problem with your argument is, I don't USE birth control dumbass!



Just because I am arguing birth control is not the same thing as abortion does not mean I USE the pill or any other method. I don't.

When I said birth control, I meant NATURAL birth control, not the pill.

My mistake then, it seemed you meant otherwise.

Birth control (pills, etc) work by one of three mechanisms to "prevent" pregnancy:

1. Prevent ovulation from taking place
2. Thickening of the cervical mucus
3. Prevent implantation

Not all mechanisms operate perfectly all the time. Sometimes(10-50% of the time depending on the product) a breakthrough ovulation occurs and then one of the other mechanisms will "prevent" pregnancy. Sometimes they all fail. It is specifically the instance in which mechanisms 1 and 2 fail and 3 does not that is being referred to here.

It is true that a woman on birth control can ovulate, her egg can be fertilized, and then it will not implant in the uterine wall due to the action of the birth control pill.

That's okay. I made the mistake of saying birth control when I shouldn't have.

But as I pointed out there is a difference between medically (or surgically) detaching a VIABLE pregnancy from the uterus, and preventing that pregnancy from occuring in the first place.

Not every fertilized egg results in a pregnancy. You see what I mean?

 

[Screaming Eagle]

I will say that believing life begins at implantation in the uterine wall is an absolutely absurd belief. What about an 8 week baby in an ectopic pregnancy? Alive or not?

 

[SpidermanTuba]

An abortion is the removal of a fetus from the womb. According to scientific analysis and opinions of experts in the healthcare industry, a fetus, for humans, is a developing offspring from 8 weeks of gestation up until birth. Therefore, to group birth control pills into the same catagory as an abortion is just asinine. Contrary to your uneducated opinion; most birth control pills prevent embryogenises from occuring, not an abortion as you have claimed. There are, of course, birth control choices that do halt embryogenises after it has already begun (ie. morning after pill).

So you let scientists determine when a human life begins - and hence, morality - for you? Interesting. I would have thought that would come from the Bible.

At any rate - you think abortion is OK as long as long as its before 8 weeks?

I believe that the federal government should not be involved in the abortion debate

What about the Constitution, and especially the 14th amendment, leads you to believe the federal government should not be involved in the protection of rights?

 

[Si modo]

I will say that believing life begins at implantation in the uterine wall is an absolutely absurd belief. What about an 8 week baby in an ectopic pregnancy? Alive or not?

I agree. It is absurd.

 

[teapartysamurai]

HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT IMPLANTATION

Thank you thank you for finally answering in plain english! Although I would note that a simple "No" would have sufficed!

Now that we've established a fertilized human embryo - with a unique set of human DNA from its father and mother - is NOT a human life until it implants - does this mean embryonic stem cell research is morally acceptable? In fact, we can send off to the gas chambers as many billions of fertilized human embryos as we please and God won't mind, so long as they haven't implanted?

I do not believe so, for the same reasons, I am uncomfortable with the pill.

Just because I believe there is a difference between preventing implementation and surgically removing a viable implanted pregnancy does not mean, I am for artificially inseminating eggs simply for human experimentation.

It's one of the reasons I have moral objections to the fertility practice of inserting several pregnancies in the hopes one is good and then aborting several of the babies if more than one pregnancy happens.

 

[DiamondDave]

HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT IMPLANTATION

Thank you thank you for finally answering in plain english! Although I would note that a simple "No" would have sufficed!

Now that we've established a fertilized human embryo - with a unique set of human DNA from its father and mother - is NOT a human life until it implants - does this mean embryonic stem cell research is morally acceptable? In fact, we can send off to the gas chambers as many billions of fertilized human embryos as we please and God won't mind, so long as they haven't implanted?

Ahhh... and the troll attempt to try and enrage further with the use of the tem 'gas chamber' to bring up visions of Nazi activity...

But you were answered before.... you did not like how the answer came about... for to call something life it must meet the criteria for life... and all of the criteria for life do not happen until implantation... you wanted a 'yes or no' answer to fit your little agenda for argument

And nice attempt to try and bring 'morally acceptable' into it with your baiting.... morally and actual are not inherently the same thing.... for example I find you to be a human life but morally I think you are sub-human

 

[teapartysamurai]

I will say that believing life begins at implantation in the uterine wall is an absolutely absurd belief. What about an 8 week baby in an ectopic pregnancy? Alive or not?

You a making the same argument that men make about miscarriage and abortion.

An eptopic pregnancy has no hopes of being born and can even kill the mother.

This is not the result of the mother (or father) doing anything.

It is not the deliberate taking of any birth control or by means of abortion.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

. and I do not find it appealing to create fertilized eggs to begin cell division for medical research,

I don't find open heart surgery appealing but that doesn't mean I find it morally reprehensible and in fact it can be a good thing.


So do you think its morally acceptable to create and destroy as many human embryos as one wishes for scientific research as long as they have never been implanted? Again, yes or no would suffice. But if the answer is no, please give your reasoning. In particular, rectify it with the fact an unattached embryo is a lifeless piece of stuff.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT IMPLANTATION

Thank you thank you for finally answering in plain english! Although I would note that a simple "No" would have sufficed!

Now that we've established a fertilized human embryo - with a unique set of human DNA from its father and mother - is NOT a human life until it implants - does this mean embryonic stem cell research is morally acceptable? In fact, we can send off to the gas chambers as many billions of fertilized human embryos as we please and God won't mind, so long as they haven't implanted?

I do not believe so, for the same reasons, I am uncomfortable with the pill.

Just because I believe there is a difference between preventing implementation and surgically removing a viable implanted pregnancy does not mean, I am for artificially inseminating eggs simply for human experimentation.

It's one of the reasons I have moral objections to the fertility practice of inserting several pregnancies in the hopes one is good and then aborting several of the babies if more than one pregnancy happens.

So its OK to kill an unattached human egg for no reason other than not wanting to be pregant - but not OK to do it for medical research purposes in hopes of finding cures for such diseases as cancer?


OK. Where does it say that in the Bible?

 

[Si modo]

No you are not getting it. SAME THING HAPPENS to a LOT of fertilized eggs. Not every fertilized egg results in a pregnancy. Like I said, same thing happens when one is already pregnant. SAME HORMONES.

As Dave pointed out. You aren't pregnant until the egg is implemented in the womb. Until then, the egg is going to die anyway.

Why do you keep talking about an egg when trying to refute the fact that the COCP will prevent implantation of a fertilized egg?

Why do you keep talking about having sex during pregnancy when one does not ovluate? One can certainly ovulate while taking the Pill because of its high fail rate in preventing ovulation.

The COCP WILL prevent implantion of the fertilized egg and it's OK to 'unnaturally' kill that fertilized egg with you. Why is that OK with you?

You are assuming I am "OK" with the pill. I am not. One of the reasons I don't use the pill.

I am simply explaining WHY I don't consider it the same as abortion. Because it uses the same hormones the body naturally uses to prevent pregnancy.

But there is a huge difference between surgically (or medically via a pill) detaching a viable implanted pregnancy, and preventing that pregnancy from ever occuring.

That's the difference between the pill and RU486 (and abortion).

A fertilized egg is not an automatic pregnancy.

Oh, my mistake. Then you want the COCP banned? FYI, during the first few days after an egg is fertilized, RU486 and the COCP have the same mechanism of action.