Zone1 Why did Jesus say we had to not only believe but be baptized?

[ding]

Christian insult.

Always motivated by doubts in one's faith.

You still aren't making any sense to me.

 

[Donald H]

It seems that way to you because the only interpretations you can come up with are the ones you make fun of because that's the extent of your intellectual capacity. You come up with one lame explanation and stop there because you are lazy and dumb.

My 'making fun of' is in your own mind. Faith has all the answers you'll ever need,

 

[ding]

My 'making fun of' is in your own mind. Faith has all the answers you'll ever need,

No, I don't put complete trust in anything without good reason. It's one of my secrets of success.

 

[Donald H]

There was no invitation to 'modernize' beliefs. Remember, my grandmother, back in the 1930s, as many others were accepting evolution as God's way of creation. I was born decades after that. As a priest back in the day of Galileo noted, The Church's duty is not to explain how the heavens go, but how to attain heaven for an eternity.

Anyone living the time of your grandma would know that your grandma was a nonbeliever and a heretic. She escaped being burned at the stake by no more than50 years!

Anyone living today who is completely informed will understand that she was nearly a century ahead of her time.

The Church focuses on God and spirit, not the physical science of the earth.

I've heard no evidence to say that the CC focuses on physical science. Members of the flock who knew very well that ID was fake and invented science, didn't speak up. (Irreducible complexity)

Also, Catholics have disagreed with one another from the beginning. Part of parochial religious education was learning about which Saints disagreed with each other about what. We also were told about the disagreements on Vatican II. People don't think alike.

No doubt!
Thank you for your honest comments.

 

[Donald H]

No, I don't put complete trust in anything without good reason. It's one of my secrets of success.

I'm quite sure that you feel you have good reason to believe.

 

[Donald H]

No, I don't put complete trust in anything without good reason. It's one of my secrets of success.

I see! I think that you're not a fool who would put everything you are, up to nothing but faith. I think that you would like to do so, as most Catholics obviously do, but the CC's granting its permission to believe what you like, has thrown a monkey wrench into that!

Your 'good reason' can now be challenged as nothing more than 'your' pesonal reasons. And they will be right of course becaude the CC granted them permission.

All reasoning is 'wrong' reasoning.

All reasoning is reasoning that is acceptable to the CC.

A spaceship delivered baby jesus to earth about two thousand years ago, but was found to have not survived the trip. Like it?

 

[Donald H]

There was no invitation to 'modernize' beliefs. Remember, my grandmother, back in the 1930s, as many others were accepting evolution as God's way of creation. I was born decades after that. As a priest back in the day of Galileo noted, The Church's duty is not to explain how the heavens go, but how to attain heaven for an eternity.

The Church focuses on God and spirit, not the physical science of the earth.

Also, Catholics have disagreed with one another from the beginning. Part of parochial religious education was learning about which Saints disagreed with each other about what. We also were told about the disagreements on Vatican II. People don't think alike.

I would see that as the church building in escape clauses.

 

[Donald H]

You still aren't making any sense to me.

Meriweather isn't struggling.

 

[Donald H]

It seems that way to you because the only interpretations you can come up with are the ones you make fun of because that's the extent of your intellectual capacity. You come up with one lame explanation and stop there because you are lazy and dumb.

Please at least understand that I don't make fun of the CC's or your beliefs. They are received and commented upon with the respect they deserve.

How is one supposed to respond to the tale of Jonah in the big fish's belly for three days?

You own it ding, you go ahead and dictate the appropriate response to that one!

 

[ding]

My 'making fun of' is in your own mind.

The atheists who post here believe they are superior to people of faith.

 

[Meriweather]

Anyone living the time of your grandma would know that your grandma was a nonbeliever and a heretic. She escaped being burned at the stake by no more than50 years!

Anyone living today who is completely informed will understand that she was nearly a century ahead of her time.

Not at all. She was taught about evolution in a Catholic nursing school. She lived in a very small town. She was a firm believer in God and who was to say he couldn't have created man via evolution. How God created us is a minuscule part of our faith/reliance on God in our life today.

 

[ding]

Meriweather isn't struggling.

Different people process information differently. Our needs are not all the same.

 

[ding]

Please at least understand that I don't make fun of the CC's or your beliefs. They are received and commented upon with the respect they deserve.

That statement could be read two different ways. Could it not?

 

[ding]

How is one supposed to respond to the tale of Jonah in the big fish's belly for three days?

By discovering the way the author intended for it to be taken. You assume these accounts - and their authors - are dumb and offer no value. So you don't find any. It's like looking for lost car keys. You don't keep looking after you find what you are looking for.

 

[ding]

You own it ding, you go ahead and dictate the appropriate response to that one!

That's your test to take. When you arrive at an intellectually responsible interpretation, let me know.

 

[Meriweather]

I would see that as the church building in escape clauses.

Interesting. Even parents do not treat each of their children exactly the same. The little sprouts are just too unique. While a math teacher might cheer if everyone in the class got the same answer, the English teacher would not be pleased at all if everyone turned in the exact same essay.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

and who was to say he couldn't have created man via evolution

The Scriptures. You either accept them or reject them

 

[Meriweather]

How is one supposed to respond to the tale of Jonah in the big fish's belly for three days?

1. A child is going to find being swallowed by a big fish memorable. The lesson taken from it, is that in the end God saved him.

2. An adult is going to find it interesting that he ended up in the very place he was trying to escape. God saved him to save an entire city.

3. God's story: He had been caring for his chosen people in their chosen nation. Nineveh wasn't treating the chosen people well--or anyone else for that matter. He sent Jonah with the message they were to turn from their ways or face destruction. Nineveh turned from its ways....God saved.

A child's point of view, a literal point of view, a spiritual point of view all lead to the same point: The saving power of God. And that is why it doesn't trouble me that people of faith see the story differently. The theme remains the same. It is non-believers who think that if they they can find one point in the story that might not be literally true, then it follows God might not exist.

 

[Meriweather]

The Scriptures.

Ah, someone who believes in six 24-hour days. But, is that what the original language really says?

 

[ding]

I'm quite sure that you feel you have good reason to believe.

Why do you say that?