Why did President Reagan wait 4 days before responding to Korean Airlines Flight 007?

[Freewill]

Ronald Reagan's 30-Year Time Bombs

The time element of “30 years” keeps slipping into American official reports and news stories about the origins of crises – the latest in “The Financial Crisis Inquiry Report” – but rarely is the relevance of the three-decade span explained, and there is a reason.

The failure to close the circle in saying who started the nation off on the path toward these disasters is because nearly everyone shies away from blaming Ronald Reagan for almost anything.

The overpowering consensus in Washington is that it’s political suicide to criticize the 40th president of the United States, whose centennial birthday on Feb. 6 will be celebrated elaborately.

It’s much safer to behave like MSNBC’s “Hardball” host Chris Matthews and simply accept that Reagan was “one of the all-time greats.”

But the truth is that Reagan’s current historical reputation rests more on the effectiveness of the Republican propaganda machine – and the timidity of many Democrats and media personalities – than on his actual record of accomplishments.

Indeed, many of today’s worst national and international problems can be traced to misjudgments and malfeasance from the Reagan years – from the swelling national debt to out-of-control banks, from the decline of the U.S. middle class to the inaction on energy independence, from the rise of Islamic fundamentalism to Pakistan’s nuclear arsenal.

All of these disasters are part of the Reagan Legacy. Yet, possibly the most insidious residue from the Reagan Years was the concept of manipulating information – what some Reagan officials liked to call “perception management” – as a means of societal control.

MUCH MORE: Ronald Reagan's 30-Year Time Bombs

Reagan was a disaster for America - especially the poor and middle class. Because of him, I switched from Republican to Democrat - and I've never regretted that decision.

Historians do not rate the napper in Chief highly, massive debt, slow economy, heavy services cuts (federal highways crumbled) but he did inspire some, those raised by TV sets, instead of parents.

Be truthful, you were not alive or too young to actually remember back then. I remember back to Eisenhower and I am telling you after Carter Reagan brought America back from the brink. Carter even gave a speech telling us about our malaise and he continues today. Reagan ushered in the greatest peacetime expansion of the economy in history. The economy soared in the 80s and 90s until Clinton and his damn "free" trade agreements. We are reaping the whirlwind from that lying Clinton. But Reagan, he returned American's greatness.

 

[Freewill]

And Obama has been worshiped by insane left wingers who don't even have the excuse of Alzheimer's.

Reagan was an unmitigated disaster as a President.

He blew up the deficit, spent like a drunken sailor, cut taxes on the rich and then raised taxes on the poor and middle class. He cut regulations and starved regulators, reintroducing the boom/bust economies of yore.

Not only that? He supported folks like Osama Bin Laden and the Contras.

Which has led to some pretty catastrophic outcomes.

Actually, bin Laden didn't attract a cult until the early 90s, Reagan gave us the Taliban so bin Laden had a start when he wanted to.

You really don't know what you are talking about but don't mind saying it. Wow.

 

[Peach]

Umm, the desperation is at the feet of Fox News. They were the ones to summon Reagan's rotted memory over this in order to draw a comparison between the two presidents, even though it was inapplicable. You should expect that the left is going to respond by pointing out how weak Reagan responded when it occurred on his watch.

Chief Shitting Bull, a.k.a. Lakhota, who started this thread is now an employee of Fox New? I'm sure you'll supply us with a link.

Implying Reagan was weak in comparison to your idiot boy king? You're cracking us up.

Quick! Deflect. The Reagan thing isn't working. Fox News! That's it. It's Fox News.

Just to be safe, let's yell Racism! Bush! Reagan! Everyone look away from the fuckup-in-chief.

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Keep it coming. You loons are hilarious.

Those of us who lived through the time do not forget the shame of the old codger DODGER; and Mayport was booming during the Carter years, he served by the way. Why was it Ronnie dodged WWII? I have heard his hearing (he didn't develop hearing loss until his 70s, his eyesight (still played football, never seen with glasses) and he was MARRIED (many married men served). Reagan slithered into making training films at age 29 because he did not care to risk his life(.) George HW Bush came from a wealthy family, could have dodged, yet he served, as did many actual movies stars, much higher in the industry than Grade B movie Ronnie.

 

[Lakhota]

Ronald Reagan's 30-Year Time Bombs

The time element of “30 years” keeps slipping into American official reports and news stories about the origins of crises – the latest in “The Financial Crisis Inquiry Report” – but rarely is the relevance of the three-decade span explained, and there is a reason.

The failure to close the circle in saying who started the nation off on the path toward these disasters is because nearly everyone shies away from blaming Ronald Reagan for almost anything.

The overpowering consensus in Washington is that it’s political suicide to criticize the 40th president of the United States, whose centennial birthday on Feb. 6 will be celebrated elaborately.

It’s much safer to behave like MSNBC’s “Hardball” host Chris Matthews and simply accept that Reagan was “one of the all-time greats.”

But the truth is that Reagan’s current historical reputation rests more on the effectiveness of the Republican propaganda machine – and the timidity of many Democrats and media personalities – than on his actual record of accomplishments.

Indeed, many of today’s worst national and international problems can be traced to misjudgments and malfeasance from the Reagan years – from the swelling national debt to out-of-control banks, from the decline of the U.S. middle class to the inaction on energy independence, from the rise of Islamic fundamentalism to Pakistan’s nuclear arsenal.

All of these disasters are part of the Reagan Legacy. Yet, possibly the most insidious residue from the Reagan Years was the concept of manipulating information – what some Reagan officials liked to call “perception management” – as a means of societal control.

MUCH MORE: Ronald Reagan's 30-Year Time Bombs

Reagan was a disaster for America - especially the poor and middle class. Because of him, I switched from Republican to Democrat - and I've never regretted that decision.

Historians do not rate the napper in Chief highly, massive debt, slow economy, heavy services cuts (federal highways crumbled) but he did inspire some, those raised by TV sets, instead of parents.

Be truthful, you were not alive or too young to actually remember back then. I remember back to Eisenhower and I am telling you after Carter Reagan brought America back from the brink. Carter even gave a speech telling us about our malaise and he continues today. Reagan ushered in the greatest peacetime expansion of the economy in history. The economy soared in the 80s and 90s until Clinton and his damn "free" trade agreements. We are reaping the whirlwind from that lying Clinton. But Reagan, he returned American's greatness.

Are you on drugs? That is really fucked up. I'm 67, and that ain't the way it happened. In fact, because of Reagan I switched from Republican to Democrat.

 

[Freewill]

Reagan's response to the soviet shoot down:

From his own words:

Since my return to Washington, we've held long meetings, the most recent yesterday with the congressional leadership. There was a feeling of unity in the room, and I received a number of constructive suggestions. We will continue to work with the Congress regarding our response to this massacre.

As you know, we immediately made known to the world the shocking facts as honestly and completely as they came to us.

We have notified the Soviets that we will not renew our bilateral agreement for cooperation in the field of transportation so long as they threaten the security of civil aviation.

Since 1981 the Soviet airline Aeroflot has been denied the right to fly to the United States. We have reaffirmed that order and are examining additional steps we can take with regard to Aeroflot facilities in this country. We're cooperating with other countries to find better means to ensure the safety of civil aviation and to join us in not accepting Aeroflot as a normal member of the international civil air community unless and until the Soviets satisfy the cries of humanity for justice. I am pleased to report that Canada today suspended Aeroflot's landing and refueling privileges for 60 days.

We have joined with other countries to press the International Civil Aviation Organization to investigate this crime at an urgent special session of the Council. At the same time, we're listening most carefully to private groups, both American and international, airline pilots, passenger associations, and others, who have a special interest in civil air safety.

I am asking the Congress to pass a joint resolution of condemnation of this Soviet crime.

We have informed the Soviets that we're suspending negotiations on several bilateral arrangements we had under consideration.

Along with Korea and Japan, we called an emergency meeting of the U.N. Security Council which began on Friday. On that first day, Korea, Japan, Canada, Australia, the Netherlands, Pakistan, France, China, the United Kingdom, Zaire, New Zealand, and West Germany all joined us in denouncing the Soviet action and expressing our horror. We accept to hear from additional countries as debate resumes tomorrow.

We intend to work with the 13 countries who had citizens aboard the Korean airliner to seek reparations for the families of all those who were killed. The United States will be making a claim against the Soviet Union within the next week to obtain compensation for the benefit of the victims' survivors. Such compensation is an absolute moral duty which the Soviets must assume.

In the economic area in general, we're redoubling our efforts with our allies to end the flow of military and strategic items to the Soviet Union.

Secretary Shultz is going to Madrid to meet with representatives of 35 countries who, for 3 years, have been negotiating an agreement having to do with, among other things, human rights. Foreign Minister Gromyko of the Soviet Union is scheduled to attend that meeting. If he does come to the meeting, Secretary Shultz is going to present him with our demands for disclosure of the facts, corrective action, and concrete assurances that such a thing will not happen again and that restitution be made.

As we work with other countries to see that justice is done, the real test of our resolve is whether we have the will to remain strong, steady, and united. I believe more than ever — as evidenced by your thousands and thousands of wires and phone calls in these last few days — that we do.

Ronald Reagan, Address to the Nation on KAL 007—September 5, 1983

No equivocating by the gipper.

 

[Peach]

Reagan was an unmitigated disaster as a President.

He blew up the deficit, spent like a drunken sailor, cut taxes on the rich and then raised taxes on the poor and middle class. He cut regulations and starved regulators, reintroducing the boom/bust economies of yore.

Not only that? He supported folks like Osama Bin Laden and the Contras.

Which has led to some pretty catastrophic outcomes.

Actually, bin Laden didn't attract a cult until the early 90s, Reagan gave us the Taliban so bin Laden had a start when he wanted to.

You really don't know what you are talking about but don't mind saying it. Wow.

But I do, the mujahideen WE supported became the Taliban, Reagan had the attention span of a three yar old. He forgot about Afghanistan after the poses. Go watch Death Valley Days, Ronnie's idea of "acting". He was able to stay in Hoolywood by being a rat:

Ronald Reagan was proud to turn names of suspected Hollywood communists over to the FBI; he and others fought vociferously against what they saw as "communist-like activity" in the entertainment industry.

Few were, but Ronnie curried favor to get 3rd rate acting jobs.

 

[Lakhota]

Ronnie Raygun and Joe McCarthy were buddies. Ronnie was a stool pigeon - a rat.

 

[Faun]

Umm, the desperation is at the feet of Fox News. They were the ones to summon Reagan's rotted memory over this in order to draw a comparison between the two presidents, even though it was inapplicable. You should expect that the left is going to respond by pointing out how weak Reagan responded when it occurred on his watch.

Chief Shitting Bull, a.k.a. Lakhota, who started this thread is now an employee of Fox New? I'm sure you'll supply us with a link.

Implying Reagan was weak in comparison to your idiot boy king? You're cracking us up.

Quick! Deflect. The Reagan thing isn't working. Fox News! That's it. It's Fox News.

Just to be safe, let's yell Racism! Bush! Reagan! Everyone look away from the fuckup-in-chief.

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Keep it coming. You loons are hilarious.

Pointing out facts you're oblivious to.

Lakhota started this thread today. Fox conjured up Reagan as a comparison on the 19th...

White House leadership: Reagan on KAL 007 vs. Obama on MH17 | Fox News

Which came first? Shirley, a mind as keen as yours can figure that one out, right? So it was Fox news, and not Lakhota, who decided to make Reagan an issue in this. You don't like it? TS.

 

[williepete]

Ronnie Raygun and Joe McCarthy were buddies. Ronnie was a stool pigeon - a rat.

OK. Does that now make Obumfuck a lesser POS?

That's what this silly thread is all about.

Did it work? Will we wake up tomorrow and all Obumfuck's screw-ups will be gone now that you've reached back to the 80's to vilify a dead guy?

 

[williepete]

Which came first? Shirley, a mind as keen as yours can figure that one out, right? So it was Fox news, and not Lakhota, who decided to make Reagan an issue in this. You don't like it? TS.

Yep. Fox News started this thread.

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

It's not fair. It's not my fault I'm a fuck up.
It's Bush.
It's racism.
It's Reagan.

It's not my fault.

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

 

[Lakhota]

Either Reagan was functioning normally as president - or he wasn't. How do you righties want to have it? He was either a nut or an asshole. Actually, I remember him as both.

 

[Faun]

Which came first? Shirley, a mind as keen as yours can figure that one out, right? So it was Fox news, and not Lakhota, who decided to make Reagan an issue in this. You don't like it? TS.

Yep. Fox News started this thread.

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

It's not fair. It's not my fault I'm a fuck up.
It's Bush.
It's racism.
It's Reagan.

It's not my fault.

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Since I never said Fox started this thread, you must be suffering from advanced delusionary schizophrenia with involuntary narcissistic rage. What I said was that Fox News was the one to bring Reagan into this and that you shouldn't be surprised when the left responds by pointing out he wasn't the hero the right is portraying him as. Turns out, Reagan didn't want to cut his vacation short because of some pesky crime where Russia shot down a civilian aircraft with 61 Americans on board. He did so only at the prodding of his handlers who managed to convince him it would be bad press to not return to Washington and give a speech about it.

 

[Lakhota]

On Heels Of Tragic Plane Crash, Fox Rewrites Reagan's Legacy In Effort To Jab Obama

Fox started it and Joe Scarborough took the bait.

 

[williepete]

Turns out, Reagan didn't want to cut his vacation short because of some pesky crime where Russia shot down a civilian aircraft with 61 Americans on board. He did so only at the prodding of his handlers who managed to convince him it would be bad press to not return to Washington and give a speech about it.

Which I already pointed out was revisionist history by supplying a link from a professor and expert on the Reagan administration. I cite an expert who published a well researched book. An expert who holds a teaching position as a professor who is the go to guy on the Reagan administration. You make up your own story.

Refute his book and refute the article I linked point by point and supply proof. You can't.

Good night Shirley. You've been a load of laughs today.

 

[Faun]

Turns out, Reagan didn't want to cut his vacation short because of some pesky crime where Russia shot down a civilian aircraft with 61 Americans on board. He did so only at the prodding of his handlers who managed to convince him it would be bad press to not return to Washington and give a speech about it.

Which I already pointed out was revisionist history by supplying a link from a professor and expert on the Reagan administration. I cite an expert who published a well researched book. An expert who holds a teaching position as a professor who is the go to guy on the Reagan administration. You make up your own story.

Refute his book and refute the article I linked point by point and supply proof. You can't.

Good night Shirley. You've been a load of laughs today.

It's refuted. Your acceptance is not actually a requirement. The author of that book wasn't there. Chris Wallace was. Furthermore, Chris Wallace is a Conservative who said that on a Conservative program. You have to be completely nuts to think he made that up.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Ah hell, I knew he waited four days, pointed that fact out in another thread.


Truth is, I don't think anyone knows why he waited four days. Probably a combination of factors... The desire for more precise information and facts perhaps? That makes the most sense.

The advantage Reagan had over Obama? We weren't living in an age where everyone expected a response or comment five minutes after something happens. The twenty-four hour news cycle was only just beginning.

Not for anything, but I am of the opinion that the President would have been better served had he made his comments about MH17, politely excused himself from his scheduled fund raising due to the gravity of the situation, and returned to the White House. If for no other reason than appearances. These days, as we all know, appearances are everything...



But that's just my opinion...

In other words - you're giving Raygun a pass.

so?.....geezus Lakota just about every thread i see you in you are making excuses for Obama.....how the hell are you any different?...

 

[EconChick]

Who gives a shit. Like others have said, it's the strength of the message (and actions) conveyed that matters.

For you tactical thinkers on the left, that means RESULTS. What were the results?

And the two couldn't be more different.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Ah hell, I knew he waited four days, pointed that fact out in another thread.


Truth is, I don't think anyone knows why he waited four days. Probably a combination of factors... The desire for more precise information and facts perhaps? That makes the most sense.

The advantage Reagan had over Obama? We weren't living in an age where everyone expected a response or comment five minutes after something happens. The twenty-four hour news cycle was only just beginning.

Not for anything, but I am of the opinion that the President would have been better served had he made his comments about MH17, politely excused himself from his scheduled fund raising due to the gravity of the situation, and returned to the White House. If for no other reason than appearances. These days, as we all know, appearances are everything...



But that's just my opinion...

In other words - you're giving Raygun a pass.

Not at all, I'm saying times were different, expectations were different. We didn't expect the President to necessarily speak to a tragedy five minutes after the news broke. Today, everyone gets antsy when something goes awry and people in power stay quiet.


And if I may make one suggestion, Lakhota...

While I do not worship at the feet of Reagan, or Bush, or Clinton, or Obama, or any other president, I was attempting to engage you in a civil, unbiased discussion on a topic you chose. I see no need for the deliberate misspelling of the mans name.

It does nothing to further the discourse and it leads one to believe that your only interest lies in denigrating the man and anyone who doesn't agree with your POV.

Good night to you.

thats a big point right there....thats the way the far left and right are.....if you dont agree with me.....fuck you....

 

[Lakhota]

Remember That Time Ronald Reagan Shot Down An Iranian Airliner? That Was Awesome

Strangely unmentioned by either Fox or Media Matters was that one time in 1988 when America shot down an Iranian airliner, killing 290 people. Ronald Reagan didn’t do a primetime speech on that one, of course, because the U.S. doesn’t deliberately shoot down airliners — we were really sad about the loss of life, but we were also really sure it was an Iranian F-14 fighter before we fired on it (in fact, the commander and missile officer on the USS Vincennes got medals for their excellent performance). Even though the jet’s transponder signal identified it as a civilian plane. In fact, the U.S. has never formally apologized to Iran for that one, although we did pay out $131.8 million in a settlement to discontinue a case in the International Court of Justice.

MORE: Remember That Time Ronald Reagan Shot Down An Iranian Airliner? That Was Awesome

Iran Air Flight 655 was an Iran Air civilian passenger flight from Tehran to Dubai that was shot down by the United States Navy guided missile cruiser USS Vincennes on 3 July 1988. The incident took place in Iranian airspace, over Iran's territorial waters in the Persian Gulf, and on the flight's usual flight path. The aircraft, an Airbus A300 B2-203, was destroyed by SM-2MR surface-to-air missiles fired from the Vincennes.

All 290 on board, including 66 children and 16 crew, died.

Iran Air Flight 655 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Why didn't Reagan give a speech apologizing for that horrendous mistake?

 

[blackhawk]

And Obama has been worshiped by insane left wingers who don't even have the excuse of Alzheimer's.

Reagan was an unmitigated disaster as a President.

He blew up the deficit, spent like a drunken sailor, cut taxes on the rich and then raised taxes on the poor and middle class. He cut regulations and starved regulators, reintroducing the boom/bust economies of yore.

Not only that? He supported folks like Osama Bin Laden and the Contras.

Which has led to some pretty catastrophic outcomes.

Actually, bin Laden didn't attract a cult until the early 90s, Reagan gave us the Taliban so bin Laden had a start when he wanted to.

No actually he didn't this story started with Carter in 1979 after the Russian invasion of Afghanistan On 3 July 1979, Carter signed a presidential finding authorizing funding for anticommunist guerrillas in Afghanistan the Mujihadeen Reagan did continue and expand the program with a great deal of help from Charlie Wilson Democrat by the way. There has never been any proof that the CIA or U.S. had any contact with Bin Laden or any money was directed to foreign Arab Mujihadeen which would have included Bin Laden the one thing that is true is a portion of those native Afghan rebels would form parts of the Taliban fighting against the US military.