Why do people hate Liberals?

[Billo_Really]

I've never bought the label thing. Liberal conservative right wing left wing.....we're all people. Labels are used by cowards.

Exactly!

It's a way of avoiding issues you're too afraid to talk about in detail.

 

[Sactowndog]

2) Powerful entrenched monied interests can stymie progress as a country just like companies can become stuck in what they do and you miss a major paradigm shift. Government has to balance that power.

Crony capitalism is a variation of socialism, not free markets. So corporations are manipulating government, and you solution is to make government even stronger. Gotcha.

If Libertarians would accept these realities they would be my favorite party. But today the chose to ignore them and therefore put the very liberties at risk they profess to cherish.

It's liberals who are ignoring reality. Libertarianism puts the power of choice where it belongs, in people's hands. People are flawed, no insight. But they make better choices for themselves than anyone else does for them. That you would like ideal perfection I understand, that you empower the worst of all solutions, unilateral, dictatorial government power, to get it is as dumb an idea as ignoring the mess we're in as a consequence of that fool's errand.

You need to argue against what I type not against some preconceived notion of what you think I believe.

In the case of government funding paradigm breaking technology. Rarely will corporations fund the destruction of their main business. Have you read the Innovator's Dilemma?

It is not anti choice for the government to fund research which will compete with established industries. It is in fact pro choice. Business within their sphere of control are more anti choice then governments. You have an overly optimistic view of the market than what I have. But in no case am I anti choice and everything I have proposed in fact increases choice.

 

[Unkotare]

Labels are used by cowards.

You probably spend hours sitting at home in the dark screaming that at your underwear.

 

[ecinicola]

i detest Liberals because they favor communism.

 

[bripat9643]

I've never bought the label thing. Liberal conservative right wing left wing.....we're all people. Labels are used by cowards.

"People" is a label, and so are "coward" and "label."

 

[Immanuel]

The less taxes depends on which taxes as I have shown over and over. The trickle down theory doesn't work in a borderless world unless your intent is to strengthen Vietnam and China which is exactly what we are doing.

Libertarianism works great except for two major flaws. 1) not all markets function smoothly or at all and government has to intercede to deal with the factors that don't work in that market.

You don't trust businesses who have to compete with each other by serving their customers and you don't trust giving customers a choice, you trust politicians who remove choice and competition with the power of government guns. And you ignore they are obviously doing it for their own power. I feel so schooled on that...

It has nothing to do with trust. Businesses are going to maximize profits as they are suppose to do. They are regulated by supply and demand "if" their is a well functioning market. But those markets don't always occur because they have some built in assumptions:

1) It assumes that people can or will walk away as the price rises

2) it assumes people have information about what they are buying

3) and it assumes a linkage between cost and benefit

Almost all of these things are missing in health care. The most important being an unwillingness to let people drop out of the market. That means companies will do what they do when you have a nearly vertical demand line and maximize profits. That is why our per capita health care costs are 1.8 times the next closest country.

This is not political theory and whether I trust or don't trust companies. It is straight economics. Nor do I believe in limited choice which would be a single provider. Read what I wrote, a single payer yes but not a single provider.

I wonder if you realize that what hinders a "well functioning market" the most is government regulaton?

I believe there must be some regulation, but unfortunately our "leaders" (regardless of party) have decided that as much regulation as they can get away with is best. It is all about control and those so called leaders are out for control.

Immie

 

[kaz]

As well, I've yet to see, read, hear and/or evidence on exactly how the con's in general will go to bat for the working joe/jane

One of my favorite liberal arguments. If we're going to talk you out of socialism, we need to do it through socialist solutions. What will help joe and jane will be jobs, which will be created by less government and lower taxes.

In fact, your argument of what we are going to do for them is in fact itself the problem. Doing means government destroying economic value which is in fact what's keeping them unemployed. Our economy is suffering from nothing it couldn't recover from if government would only stop helping it...

you quoted the wrong guy Kaz.....

My apologies Harry

 

[Bfgrn]

You don't trust businesses who have to compete with each other by serving their customers and you don't trust giving customers a choice, you trust politicians who remove choice and competition with the power of government guns. And you ignore they are obviously doing it for their own power. I feel so schooled on that...

It has nothing to do with trust. Businesses are going to maximize profits as they are suppose to do. They are regulated by supply and demand "if" their is a well functioning market. But those markets don't always occur because they have some built in assumptions:

1) It assumes that people can or will walk away as the price rises

2) it assumes people have information about what they are buying

3) and it assumes a linkage between cost and benefit

Almost all of these things are missing in health care. The most important being an unwillingness to let people drop out of the market. That means companies will do what they do when you have a nearly vertical demand line and maximize profits. That is why our per capita health care costs are 1.8 times the next closest country.

This is not political theory and whether I trust or don't trust companies. It is straight economics. Nor do I believe in limited choice which would be a single provider. Read what I wrote, a single payer yes but not a single provider.

I wonder if you realize that what hinders a "well functioning market" the most is government regulaton?

I believe there must be some regulation, but unfortunately our "leaders" (regardless of party) have decided that as much regulation as they can get away with is best. It is all about control and those so called leaders are out for control.

Immie

There is no 'well functioning market' without regulations. Just as there is no 'society' without laws.

Do you understand why our economy crashed and burned in 2008 Immie?

 

[Billo_Really]

My apologies Harry

I asked you a question back on post #552, are you going to answer it? Yes or no?

 

[OODA_Loop]

There is no 'well functioning market' without regulations. Just as there is no 'society' without laws.

Do you understand why our economy crashed and burned in 2008 Immie?

Over-regulation removed traditional market risk forces allowing investors to make risky investments they otheriwse would not have on their own merit and risk profile.

 

[JimBowie1958]

The one thing about this board that most baffles me is the incredible depth of hatred and contempt for liberals.

The amount of comments from people suggesting all liberals are stupid, anti-patriotic, dumb...you name it. One even suggested liberals don't know what paragraphs are.

I don't get it. And I don't see anything the like the contempt expressed by liberals towards conservatives.

Firstly, the term "liberal" could be used to describe about half of the planet. Like "leftist", it's a fairly cliched catch-all adjective that have little real meaning. It's just too general to be much use.

Secondly, I've met extremely intelligent people from right across the political spectrum - and as many idiots. I've talked to brilliant facists, idiotic conservatives, intelligent communists and brain-dead centrists. I don't see a pattern there at all.

And lastly, why hate liberals when many of the most successful and celebrated administrations have been liberal ones? Were the governments if Clinton, Wilson, FDR, JFK and Truman really so much worse than conservative governments of similar eras?

The constant attacks on liberals seems to me (as an outsider) just a sign of incredible arrogance and conceit - and I would consider attacks on conservatives the same way.

If there is a REAL reason, with facts, for hating liberals - let's hear about it.

I dont know how much of the 'hate' you perceive is genuine. On internet message boards people do tend to get hyperbolic, so to say. Alot of what one would call hate if said face to face is just a desire to get attention or emphasize a point that could be better done most often with lower levels of rhetorical venom.

But there are some conservatives who genuinely hate liberals, and vice versa as well. Maybe there is some personal loss they associate with the other side or something, I dont know. These types tend to say stupid things for effect and when you are trying to have a reasonable thread and these jerks troll it up, it tends to irritate and evoke harsher responses that are more directed at the individual rather than all liberals or all conservatives in general.


I think most people here agree with classic liberalism, i.e. having freedom of expression, a democratic system for the most important officials, a secular state with religious freedom, the right to vote, equal standing before the law, and so forth. But the progressives have left most people behind as they have redefined almost everything about 'liberalism' till I doubt Humphrey, JFK, LBJ or FDR would recognise it as something that they would associate themselves with today.

Todays politically correct liberal establishment is one of the most intolerant, irrational, religion hating, inhumane and contemptuous ideologies since the fall of communism. I think I would honestly live under Sharia than a second Obama term in office, thus my intended vote for the Liar Romney despite my fear of what he might do once in office. Romney maybe the anti-Christ, but Obama is simply off the scale.

 

[JimBowie1958]

There is no 'well functioning market' without regulations. Just as there is no 'society' without laws.

Do you understand why our economy crashed and burned in 2008 Immie?

Over-regulation removed traditional market risk forces allowing investors to make risky investments they otheriwse would not have on their own merit and risk profile.

There is a Golden MEan in there somewhere, between over regulation and none at all.

The derivatives market needs some oversight, something we should have learned four years ago but did not fix.

So we willcrash one more time and this next one will be a doozey.

 

[Bfgrn]

There is no 'well functioning market' without regulations. Just as there is no 'society' without laws.

Do you understand why our economy crashed and burned in 2008 Immie?

Over-regulation removed traditional market risk forces allowing investors to make risky investments they otheriwse would not have on their own merit and risk profile.

WOW, someone admitting that cognitive dissonance is their mantra...

If you are going to make ignorant statements, you need to tell us what 'over-regulations' removed these 'risks'. Because the ONLY risks never occurred. These Wall Street slime balls are not in prison.

 

[Bfgrn]

The one thing about this board that most baffles me is the incredible depth of hatred and contempt for liberals.

The amount of comments from people suggesting all liberals are stupid, anti-patriotic, dumb...you name it. One even suggested liberals don't know what paragraphs are.

I don't get it. And I don't see anything the like the contempt expressed by liberals towards conservatives.

Firstly, the term "liberal" could be used to describe about half of the planet. Like "leftist", it's a fairly cliched catch-all adjective that have little real meaning. It's just too general to be much use.

Secondly, I've met extremely intelligent people from right across the political spectrum - and as many idiots. I've talked to brilliant facists, idiotic conservatives, intelligent communists and brain-dead centrists. I don't see a pattern there at all.

And lastly, why hate liberals when many of the most successful and celebrated administrations have been liberal ones? Were the governments if Clinton, Wilson, FDR, JFK and Truman really so much worse than conservative governments of similar eras?

The constant attacks on liberals seems to me (as an outsider) just a sign of incredible arrogance and conceit - and I would consider attacks on conservatives the same way.

If there is a REAL reason, with facts, for hating liberals - let's hear about it.

I dont know how much of the 'hate' you perceive is genuine. On internet message boards people do tend to get hyperbolic, so to say. Alot of what one would call hate if said face to face is just a desire to get attention or emphasize a point that could be better done most often with lower levels of rhetorical venom.

But there are some conservatives who genuinely hate liberals, and vice versa as well. Maybe there is some personal loss they associate with the other side or something, I dont know. These types tend to say stupid things for effect and when you are trying to have a reasonable thread and these jerks troll it up, it tends to irritate and evoke harsher responses that are more directed at the individual rather than all liberals or all conservatives in general.


I think most people here agree with classic liberalism, i.e. having freedom of expression, a democratic system for the most important officials, a secular state with religious freedom, the right to vote, equal standing before the law, and so forth. But the progressives have left most people behind as they have redefined almost everything about 'liberalism' till I doubt Humphrey, JFK, LBJ or FDR would recognise it as something that they would associate themselves with today.

Todays politically correct liberal establishment is one of the most intolerant, irrational, religion hating, inhumane and contemptuous ideologies since the fall of communism. I think I would honestly live under Sharia than a second Obama term in office, thus my intended vote for the Liar Romney despite my fear of what he might do once in office. Romney maybe the anti-Christ, but Obama is simply off the scale.

Pretty sad JB, to hear someone who has been brainwashed by the right, because it sounds like you had a brain at one time. I am JFK liberal, and I can guarantee if JFK were alive today, he would chastise today's Democrats for not being liberal enough.

The most intolerant, irrational, religion hating, inhumane and contemptuous ideologies since the fall of communism is Marketism. People like OODA_Loop who believe that the 'invisible hand' is fairy dust. The social Darwinists who call people on social insurance programs parasites, and the Ayn Rand psychopaths who believe We, the People should be replaced with I, the Person.

I am praying that Ike is right:

"Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history."
President Dwight D. Eisenhower

 

[OODA_Loop]

If you are going to make ignorant statements, you need to tell us what 'over-regulations' removed these 'risks'.

Allowing derivatives to be traded on mortgages that had high risk profiles by virtue of .gov regulation requiring they be issued to customers who weren't eligible on their own numbers.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Pretty sad JB, to hear someone who has been brainwashed by the right, because it sounds like you had a brain at one time. I am JFK liberal, and I can guarantee if JFK were alive today, he would chastise today's Democrats for not being liberal enough.

Lol, then yo dont know JFK very well as he was opposed to extreme socialism, supported gun rights, and supported Joe McCarthy. He also would not support Affirmative Action, reverse racism, PC speech codes and hate crime laws. He was a decorated war veteran and patriot of the first order. About the only thing he had in common with liberals today was his tendency to be a philanderer.

I also note that you did not even bother to try and claim LBJ, FDR or Humphrey would have remained Dem. Not even going to start on Truman and Wilson.

The most intolerant, irrational, religion hating, inhumane and contemptuous ideologies since the fall of communism is Marketism. People like OODA_Loop who believe that the 'invisible hand' is fairy dust. The social Darwinists who call people on social insurance programs parasites, and the Ayn Rand psychopaths who believe We, the People should be replaced with I, the Person.

'Marketism'? Is making up words what you consider part of a rational rebutal? The 'invisible hand' is not 'Fairy dust' it is a simple fact that people can best make the best decisions for their own lives rather than some central committee.

Randian Libertariansim does have its extremists, sure, but I could live in that environment a whole hell of a lot better than a 'workers paradise'.

I am praying that Ike is right:

"Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history."
President Dwight D. Eisenhower

He was right about all of that in his day, and his observation is still right except for the farm subsides that have become another form of corporate welfare.

 

[JimBowie1958]

There is no 'well functioning market' without regulations. Just as there is no 'society' without laws.

Do you understand why our economy crashed and burned in 2008 Immie?

Over-regulation removed traditional market risk forces allowing investors to make risky investments they otheriwse would not have on their own merit and risk profile.

WOW, someone admitting that cognitive dissonance is their mantra...

If you are going to make ignorant statements, you need to tell us what 'over-regulations' removed these 'risks'. Because the ONLY risks never occurred. These Wall Street slime balls are not in prison.

Can you essplain the udnerlined text? It makes no sense to me.

And some of these people responsible should be in prison, and we should start with Bernanke, Greenspan and the people who ran Fredy Mac and Sally Mae.

 

[Bfgrn]

Pretty sad JB, to hear someone who has been brainwashed by the right, because it sounds like you had a brain at one time. I am JFK liberal, and I can guarantee if JFK were alive today, he would chastise today's Democrats for not being liberal enough.

Lol, then yo dont know JFK very well as he was opposed to extreme socialism, supported gun rights, and supported Joe McCarthy. He also would not support Affirmative Action, reverse racism, PC speech codes and hate crime laws. He was a decorated war veteran and patriot of the first order. About the only thing he had in common with liberals today was his tendency to be a philanderer.

I also note that you did not even bother to try and claim LBJ, FDR or Humphrey would have remained Dem. Not even going to start on Truman and Wilson.

The most intolerant, irrational, religion hating, inhumane and contemptuous ideologies since the fall of communism is Marketism. People like OODA_Loop who believe that the 'invisible hand' is fairy dust. The social Darwinists who call people on social insurance programs parasites, and the Ayn Rand psychopaths who believe We, the People should be replaced with I, the Person.

'Marketism'? Is making up words what you consider part of a rational rebutal? The 'invisible hand' is not 'Fairy dust' it is a simple fact that people can best make the best decisions for their own lives rather than some central committee.

Randian Libertariansim does have its extremists, sure, but I could live in that environment a whole hell of a lot better than a 'workers paradise'.

I am praying that Ike is right:

"Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history."
President Dwight D. Eisenhower

He was right about all of that in his day, and his observation is still right except for the farm subsides that have become another form of corporate welfare.

"Harry Truman once said, 'There are 14 or 15 million Americans who have the resources to have representatives in Washington to protect their interests, and that the interests of the great mass of the other people - the 150 or 160 million - is the responsibility of the president of the United States, and I propose to fulfill it.'"
President John F. Kennedy

Well, you don't know John F. Kennedy. If you hated Ted Kennedy, you would have despised Jack and Bobby. Medicare, civil rights laws and the war on poverty were ALL New Frontier programs LBJ adopted.

What is really disturbing is how you right wing turds have polarized brains. No liberals, Democrats or even President Obama who you despise are calling for 'extreme socialism'. And Democrats have called for rational gun control measures like banning assault weapons.

The term 'Marketist' perfectly explains the blind religious like dogma and doctrinaire of America's version of Marxists. Marx, Engel, Stalin and Hitler were big believers is social Darwinism.

As far as good old Harry S., I will let him speak for himself:

"Republicans approve of the American farmer, but they are willing to help him go broke. They stand four-square for the American home--but not for housing. They are strong for labor--but they are stronger for restricting labor's rights. They favor minimum wage--the smaller the minimum wage the better. They endorse educational opportunity for all--but they won't spend money for teachers or for schools. They approve of social security benefits-so much so that they took them away from almost a million people. They think modern medical care and hospitals are fine--for people who can afford them. They believe in international trade--so much so that they crippled our reciprocal trade program, and killed our International Wheat Agreement. They favor the admission of displaced persons--but only within shameful racial and religious limitations.They consider electrical power a great blessing--but only when the private power companies get their rake-off. They say TVA is wonderful--but we ought never to try it again. They condemn "cruelly high prices"--but fight to the death every effort to bring them down. They think American standard of living is a fine thing--so long as it doesn't spread to all the people. And they admire of Government of the United States so much that they would like to buy it."
President Harry S. Truman

 

[Sactowndog]

There is no 'well functioning market' without regulations. Just as there is no 'society' without laws.

Do you understand why our economy crashed and burned in 2008 Immie?

Over-regulation removed traditional market risk forces allowing investors to make risky investments they otheriwse would not have on their own merit and risk profile.

Explain this one. What over regulation led to the elimination of risk forces and allowed risky investments?

 

[OODA_Loop]

There is no 'well functioning market' without regulations. Just as there is no 'society' without laws.

Do you understand why our economy crashed and burned in 2008 Immie?

Over-regulation removed traditional market risk forces allowing investors to make risky investments they otheriwse would not have on their own merit and risk profile.

Explain this one. What over regulation led to the elimination of risk forces and allowed risky investments?

Allowing derivatives to be traded on mortgages that had high risk profiles by virtue of .gov regulation requiring they be issued to customers who weren't eligible on their own numbers.