Why do so many atheist scientists believe in aliens when there's no proof for them either?

[Fort Fun Indiana]

When doing science, we use experiments. There are no experiments that create life.

There are also no experiments that create stars.

Therefore, stars don't form...they are poofed into existence by magical fairies!

Fort Fun Indiana you are wrong again.



Stars, as our sun, also has to be the proper distance from Earth or else we'd burn or freeze to death. God created the sun and put it in just the right place and in the right magnitude so we can live and prosper. He also created the moon and other planets so we can have tides and see the heavens above and appreciate the earth where we live. That's how wonderful and great God is. He did it all for us and not aliens.

Of course, you're an idiot and do not understand God nor science.

Well gee, that information will come in real Handy the next time we search for human life on other planets dumbass...

 

[buttercup]

A good portion of the Bible is history.

Yes, just as a good portion of Marvel Comics is history. I mean, it mentions real people, places, and events, right?

You are ignorant.

 

[Natural Citizen]

There are a lot of cool things recorded in the many varying bibles. Sometimes we get a more precise meaning of various scripture through comparing them bible to bible to bible.

One of my favorite scriptures is Revelation 6:14. A multiverse? That's science, yo.

 

[BULLDOG]

When doing science, we use experiments. There are no experiments that create life.

Second, if all of this is natural, then why do we not see it happening all over the place today? There are no life on Mars, for example.

Both show that abiogenesis does not happen. It has been rendered pseudoscience just like spontaneous generation.

Evolution destroyed in three sentences.

(For the same reasons, we know that humans didn't come from monkeys.)

Interesting. Does that mean that since Gravity is still just a theory, it doesn't exist either?

 

[buttercup]

1. Who are the scientists that declare there must be millions of alien civilizations in the universe? Carl Sagan said it while alive. Even sent a time capsule. SETI scientists.
2. How do you know they are atheists? God didn't create aliens, so aliens would be evidence against God.
3. You would need to define god before showing proof of god. There often seems to be some disagreement about what constitutes god. No aliens = evidence for God.
4. You should probably be saying evidence rather than proof. You believe the Bible is evidence of god. I'm not sure what the statement "a Bible that somehow came to be" means; it came to be when it was written? You seem to imply that it couldn't have been written but had to be created by god. Don't be so dumb as to be influenced by Satan. It's God. god is considered Satan aka god of the world in the Bible.
5. That places written about in the Bible exist seems like pretty scant evidence of god. Places written in most Stephen King books exist, but that doesn't mean I should start believing in monsters. You're entitled to your worldview even though it's wrong, wrong, wrong.
6. Why would you assume that if aliens existed, they would have contacted us? The universe is vast, almost beyond human comprehension. There could be tons of alien civilizations out there without they or us ever noticing each other. Besides, it's also possible aliens have attempted to contact us and we did not realize it. It isn't as if aliens are likely to be sending messages out in human language over devices compatible with human technology. This is ignorant. NASA, SETI, Elon Musk all think we have been contacted even thought there is no evidence. Read about the Ferdi Paradox.

I just want to comment on #2. I know that many believers reject the idea of “aliens” because the Bible doesn’t mention that God created life on other planets. But, as far as I’ve seen on this thread, you’re leaving out a very interesting part of this discussion. I’m sure you would agree that while God probably didn’t create little green men on other planets, God did create other types of beings, who live in a different dimension. In case it isn’t clear, I’m talking about celestial beings, angels. And as you know, a third of them rebelled, and became the 'fallen' angels.

What does that have to do with aliens? I’ll get to it. There are tons of people who claim to have been abducted by “aliens” or people who have seen what may appear to be aliens, and there are a number of respected researchers who have concluded that those stories are real... but here’s the interesting part. Many of these researchers concluded that what they encountered were not extraterrestrial beings or a little green man from another planet who came here on a spaceship. Rather, they encountered interdimensional beings. And some of these researchers (who by the way are non-Christians, agnostics or atheists) have actually stated that many of the stories they hear from people who have been abducted sound exactly like the stories of people who claim to have encounters with demons. There are several quotes that I will post, I just have to round them up.

Now this will probably sound completely crazy to most people here, especially the atheists. But I believe that a big deception has been going on, and the beings that many people think are “aliens” are purposely portraying themselves as being from other planets… when in fact they are demons. Another thing that is interesting is that many Hollywood movies promote the idea that aliens exist, and they are our “saviors” because they were the ones who “seeded” our planet in the first place, now they’re back to help us find another planet, yada yada yada. This is all a huge deception. As a matter of fact, I made a video on this topic, several years ago. I'll share it a little later.

Of course this also goes along with the numerous stories from ancient civilizations that otherworldly beings came down, beings that they called “gods”. There’s so much more to this topic to be discussed, it’s a huge topic and very, very interesting.

I'm going to find those quotes for you now.

 

[Montrovant]

How does the anthropic principle mean that we should have been contacted or found alien life? And are you speaking of the weak, strong, participatory, or final anthropic principle? All are controversial to some degree, and not all are completely science based; the SAP, in particular, is described as being more teleological and speculative than WAP. None of the versions of the anthropic principle seems to in any way indicate that humanity should have come into contact with alien life if it exists.

Here's a couple of links I went to in looking for information about the anthropic principle:
The Anthropic Principle
How The Anthropic Principle Became The Most Abused Idea In Science

You and your fellow atheists claim life exists elsewhere. Then, somewhere in space, there would have to be what causes life. One of the big criticisms of believers of aliens is that they have no other information to support their beliefs. Instead, they present arguments such as amino acids exist all over in space and they form proteins. Creation science discovered chilarity to disprove this. Protein can only be created within the cell. Why didn't the atheist scientists study what causes life on planet Earth on go from there?

The Anthropic Principle is based on the universe was prepared for the emergence of life and especially of human life. It is used to develop scientific explanations in cosmology. One of the arguments for it are the fine tuning facts discovered by atheist scientists when looking to explain their Big Bang Theory as follows:

• the production of a mixture of Hydrogen and Helium after the Big Bang
• long living hydrogen burning stars
• the production of the elements C, O, N, S in a star
• the distance of a planet (earth) to the star (sun): not too far, not too close
• the minimum size of the planet (to hold an atmosphere)
• atomic and molecular stability
• the unique properties of such a simple molecule as water

It's presented by Barrow and Tipler in The Anthropic Cosmological Principle.

The Anthropic Cosmological Principle by John D. Barrow

My question to Montrovant is why not start with the above and then find a planet to meet the qualities of Earth? I think NASA is trying to do this with Mars, but not really succeeding. Instead, we get more hypothesis based on evolutionary thinking such as ice/water on Mars and that somehow that means life, a microble. Actually, NASA made a video of a small fish which I saw darting across the screen as the type of life they thought could exist, but it was quickly pulled. One atheist scientist I spoke with said he thought that the evidence on Mars shows that life could have existed there in the past. I posed the same question to him and he said he's working on looking for further evidence such as fossils and such.

ETA: I think he's conceding that there is no life on Mars even though he didn't say that. I mean they've probed Mars, but haven't found a microbe. That said, they continue to probe for life, but it seems they have changed their focus to previous life.

1. You did not actually answer my question. There are multiple versions of the antrhopic principle, which do you think says that humanity should have discovered alien life it exists, and why?

2. You assume I am an atheist

3. You assume I have claimed there is life elsewhere

Basically, you seem to enjoy creating an argument based on your own often false assumptions as though they are factual.

Agnostic is the same as atheist in the Bible. To me, an agnostic is someone who isn't smart enough to figure things out for themselves.

If one believes in God and Genesis, then you would see there is no need for the anthropic principle. Were you not able to figure this out for yourself?

What do you mean "agnostic is the same as atheist in the Bible"? Neither word existed at the time, so I can only assume you mean the concepts.

If there is no need for the anthropic principle, why do you keep citing it? If you just don't want to answer the question, say so.

 

[buttercup]

Here are some quotes that I said I would post, by well known UFO researchers who, based on years of research, came to the conclusion that 'aliens' are interdimensional, not extraterrestrial. Keep in mind that these are secular researchers, who arrived at these conclusions because of the evidence, not religious beliefs.

“It’s both literally, physically happening to a degree; and it’s also some kind of psychological, spiritual experience occurring and originating perhaps in another dimension.”

— Dr. John E. Mack (psychiatrist, professor at Harvard Medical School, Pulitzer Prize-winning biographer)


"UFOs, although they may have no physical reality, can and do affect matter....the universe is not all that simple. Mystics, for example, have always talked about how matter vibrates at different rates of speed, but the scientist doesn't know what the mystic is talking about....there is a lot that the spaceship concept doesn't explain about UFO phenomena. You have to disallow or neglect and overlook all sorts of things if you accept the idea that nuts-and-bolts craft are coming here from outer space....the so-called extraterrestrial hypothesis....We're going to have to broaden our scope and admit other things into our playing field of science....But it would be wrong if we pursued that path to the exclusion of everything else. If the evidence suggests that there is a paranormal dimension to the phenomenon, we're going to have to pursue that.”

— Dr. J. Allen Hynek (American astronomer, professor, and ufologist)


"The 'medical examination' to which abductees are said to be subjected, often accompanied by sadistic sexual manipulation, is reminiscient of the medieval tales of encounters with demons. It makes no sense in a sophisticated or technical framework: any intelligent being equipped with the scientific marvels that UFOs possess would be in a position to achieve any of these alleged scientific objectives in a shorter time and with fewer risks."

"We are dealing with a yet unrecognized level of consciousness, independent of man but closely linked to the earth.... I do not believe anymore that UFOs are simply the spacecraft of some race of extraterrestrial visitors. This notion is too simplistic to explain their appearance, the frequency of their manifestations through recorded history, and the structure of the information exchanged with them during contact."

"The symbolic display seen by the abductees is identical to the type of initiation ritual or astral voyage that is imbedded in the [occult] traditions of every culture...the structure of abduction stories is identical to that of occult initiation rituals...the UFO beings of today belong to the same class of manifestation as the [occult] entities that were described in centuries past."

"An impressive parallel can be made between UFO occupants and the popular conceptions of demons.” "UFOs can project images or fabricated scenes designed to change our belief systems."

—Dr. Jacques Vallée (computer scientist, former astronomer, ufologist)


“The UFOs do not seem to exist as tangible, manufactured objects. They do not conform to the natural laws of our environment. They seem to be nothing more than transmogrifications tailoring themselves to our abilities to understand. The thousands of contacts with the entities indicate that they are liars and put-on artists. The UFO manifestations seem to be, by and large, merely minor variations of the age-old demonological phenomenon.”

— John Keel


"One theory which can no longer be taken very seriously is that UFOs are interstellar spaceships.”

— Arthur C. Clarke


"Many of the UFO reports now being published in the popular press recount alleged incidents that are strikingly similar to demonic possession and psychic phenomena...."

— Lynn E. Catoe


"...if one sets the three occult groups against the three classifications of UFO entities and their characteristics, it is rather surprising how complementary to each other they appear to be, not only through their appearance, activities, and level of behavior, but also in the quality of mental and, especially, emotional reaction and response that has been noted to have occurred on contact.”

— Ivar Mackay (former chairman of the respected British UFO Research Association)


“We are dealing with a multidimensional paraphysical phenomenon which is largely indigenous to planet earth.”

— Brad Steiger

"Increasingly I felt as if I were entering a struggle that might even be more than life and death. It might be a struggle for my soul, my essence, or whatever part of me might have reference to the eternal. There are worse things than death, I suspected... so far the word demon had never been spoken among the scientists and doctors who were working with me...Alone at night I worried about the legendary cunning of demons ...At the very least I was going stark, raving mad."

"I felt an absolutely indescribable sense of menace. It was hell on earth to be there [in the presence of the entities], and yet I couldn't move, couldn't cry out, couldn't get away. I'd lay as still as death, suffering inner agonies. Whatever was there seemed so monstrously ugly, so filthy and dark and sinister. Of course they were demons. They had to be. And they were here and I couldn't get away."

— Whitley Strieber, Transformation, p. 44-45, p. 181
​

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

A good portion of the Bible is history.

Yes, just as a good portion of Marvel Comics is history. I mean, it mentions real people, places, and events, right?

You are ignorant.

And you're smelly.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

came to the conclusion that 'aliens' are interdimensional, not extraterrestrial

And the first such example says, "perhaps they are from another dimension".

So you are being misleading

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

There are a lot of cool things recorded in the many varying bibles. Sometimes we get a more precise meaning of various scripture through comparing them bible to bible to bible.

One of my favorite scriptures is Revelation 6:14. A multiverse? That's science, yo.

That passage makes no reference to multiverses....?

 

[Natural Citizen]

That passage makes no reference to multiverses....?

Guess ya had to be there. Know what I mean?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

That passage makes no reference to multiverses....?

Guess ya had to be there. Know what I mean?

Ha, I guess i don't. Be...where? Inside the fever dream of an ignorant, iron age goat herder with no understanding of the physics of the universe?

 

[Natural Citizen]

Ha, I guess i don't. Be...where? Inside the fever dream of an ignorant, iron age goat herder with no understanding of the physics of the universe?

The court jesters said the same thing about Galilei. Though, not in so many words.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Ha, I guess i don't. Be...where? Inside the fever dream of an ignorant, iron age goat herder with no understanding of the physics of the universe?

The court jesters said the same thing about Galilei. Though, not in so many words.

So? You only serve to highlight the difference between magical hoo-ha and evidence-based knowledge. Those cackling fools we're shown to be objectively incorrect and completely ignorant of the universe.

 

[Natural Citizen]

So? You only serve to highlight the difference between magical hoo-ha and evidence-based knowledge. Those cackling fools we're shown to be objectively incorrect and completely ignorant of the universe.

Here's a cold spot. Now what? Hm? Tell us?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

So? You only serve to highlight the difference between magical hoo-ha and evidence-based knowledge. Those cackling fools we're shown to be objectively incorrect and completely ignorant of the universe.

Here's a cold spot. Now what? Hm? Tell us?

No, you go ahead and articulate your point all by yourself. If it is compelling, you will not need the assistance of a stranger on the internet.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Heh heh. Of course.

As much as I might disagree with Ding's half-hearted methods, he's right about some of you. If you can't manage the heat, stay outta the championship kitchen. If you don't understand your own arguments, don't try to fall back on em as a means of defense. It's Romper Roominsh.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Heh heh. Of course.

As much as I might disagree with Ding's half-hearted methods, he's right about some of you. If you can't manage the heat, stay outta the championship kitchen.

I'm not sure what prompted that little bit of self soothing, but it is fair and correct to ask you just to make your point yourself. If you choose not to do so, that reflects more on you than it does on anyone else.

So, what is your point? Why did you present that graphic of the CMB? How is it relevant to this discussion ? These should be easy for you to answer, as, presumably, you possessed answers to these questions before you posted that graphic.

So....?

 

[james bond]

When doing science, we use experiments. There are no experiments that create life.

Second, if all of this is natural, then why do we not see it happening all over the place today? There are no life on Mars, for example.

Both show that abiogenesis does not happen. It has been rendered pseudoscience just like spontaneous generation.

Evolution destroyed in three sentences.

(For the same reasons, we know that humans didn't come from monkeys.)

Interesting. Does that mean that since Gravity is still just a theory, it doesn't exist either?

It sure is interesting because it means what evos claimed happened didn't happen. They're wrong.

Yes, gravity is a theory. One hypothesis is gravity doesn't exist because gravity is still a mystery to how it works. We know it is tied to mass of an object like putting a metal ball on a trampoline, but still do not know the details. For example, is a particle associated with its force?

We know that particles are associated with the other three forces. Thus, if a particle is not associated with gravity, then does it really exist? Scientists are trying to find the graviton using the LHC, but so far they haven't found it.

OTOH evos aren't trying to find abiogenesis anymore. No experiments. Anybody looking for why monkeys/apes aren't bipedal? Nope. Anybody looking for ape-humans? Probably not. They're looking for ancient human fossils. Basically, people will not invest money in the above.

ETA: If you think otherwise, then I'll start a gofundme and you atheists can happily contribute to it. In fact, I'm willing to entertain ideas on how to do the experiments.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I'm not going to give a pass to this "snap-to-fit" religious nonsense. Think of the absurdity of this. Whenever we make a scientific discovery, someone always manages to come along to tell us how the Bible (or some other steaming pile of nonsense written by ignorant people ) described or predicted this new knowledge....

....but never one second before we earn this knowledge through rigorous scientific process. How odd! Where are all the shamans, directing us on the next effective cancer treatment? Where are all the voodoo priests, telling us about the usefulness of standard candles in cosmology before we discover it? Where are the theologians, exaining on how to find and interpret new knowledge about dark energy?

This is Grade A, snake oil salesmen bullshit.