Why do the God-haters persist?

[Boss]

Awareness of spiritual connection is a sense? That's kind of like me asking what sense you use for the awareness of your skin being in contact with an object, and instead of saying the sense of touch, you say that awareness of being in contact with an object is the sense.

Well what is the sense of touch? Isn't it the awareness of your skin being in contact with an object? The word "touch" is just a name we assigned to that sense of awareness.

What portion of the brain is used in this sense, what sort of signals does it receive?

It doesn't matter, this has nothing to do with the intrinsic spiritual connection itself. Your eyes are able to register reflection of light through your optic nerve to create an image your brain recognizes as our sense of sight, but this has nothing to do with literally trillions and trillions of things happening constantly in our universe that our eyes can't see.

Can someone lose or be born without this sense, as you can be blind or deaf?

Yep, you can be born retarded or severely mentally disabled, and not have the ability to comprehend spiritual connection. However, there are some people who have profound mental handicaps who have still managed to connect spiritually.

Do animals often do anything for rational or irrational reasons in their own minds, or do they mostly run on instinct? An ant may never act irrationally, but it also isn't thinking through it's actions.

They mostly run on instinct. Correct, ants do not generally behave irrationally. How can you say ants are not thinking through their actions? They go obtain a piece of matter and deliver it where it is supposed to be. You're saying they don't have to think in order to do this? Their legs move and bodies come and go, and nothing is controlling that but instinct?

Lots of animals have complex languages? I'd like to see some examples of these which come anywhere near human language. I'm not talking about simple communication through sounds, I mean true complex language such as we use.

Many animals have complexed language which is actually better than humans because it's universal across the entire species worldwide. They don't have the same sounds with different contextual meaning the way humans do with words. A crow warns of danger the same way in China as in America.

How do you have any idea if a lab rat ascribes meaning to anything? How could you possibly know that without some form of complex communication between the two species?

Through observing their behavior, of course.

You seem to assume that many animals operate on a similar intellectual level as humans, despite the evidence to the contrary (and, if I remember correctly, an admission by you previously that they do not).

I've not said this. Our "intellectual level" is largely attributable to our ability to spiritually connect and become inspired to obtain greater wisdom of the universe around us. Still... Would you have any idea which flowers need pollinating if this responsibility fell on you tomorrow instead of the bees? We arrogantly presume our "intellectual level" is superior because of our perspective.

Is superstition not a manifestation of spiritual connection, like religion? If not, why not?

It is, but just as some religions have become extinct, it's because of human misinterpretation of spiritual connection. It's amazing to me how the god-haters can point to all the failed spiritual beliefs through the ages and claim this somehow disproves spirituality, while ignoring the mountain of failed and disproved scientific theories.

Jupiter existed before we observed it. The spiritual may as well. However, the idea that that is not in question is simply ludicrous. Of course it is, and should be, in question, especially if it is like your example of Jupiter. Why should anyone have simply taken someone's word for the existence of Jupiter before there was evidence for it? Before man could do more than look into the sky with his naked eye?

The point is, Jupiter did exist long before we discovered it was there. The fact that we didn't know it was there or couldn't see it, did not mean it didn't exist and wasn't there. No one should take anyone's word for anything, that's not the point I am making here. To bow up and proclaim that it's ludicrous to believe in Spiritual God because you can't see it or verify it exists, is no different than someone before the discovery of Jupiter making the same claim. Why that's ridiculous, a planet 100x larger than Earth certainly doesn't exist or we would see it in the sky! ...Why that's absurd, if the Earth were round the water would run off the oceans! By the way, the later was actually an argument made against the theory of a round Earth. People are sometimes too 'smart' for their own good.

 

[thebrucebeat]

Awareness of spiritual connection is a sense? That's kind of like me asking what sense you use for the awareness of your skin being in contact with an object, and instead of saying the sense of touch, you say that awareness of being in contact with an object is the sense.

Well what is the sense of touch? Isn't it the awareness of your skin being in contact with an object? The word "touch" is just a name we assigned to that sense of awareness.

What portion of the brain is used in this sense, what sort of signals does it receive?

It doesn't matter, this has nothing to do with the intrinsic spiritual connection itself. Your eyes are able to register reflection of light through your optic nerve to create an image your brain recognizes as our sense of sight, but this has nothing to do with literally trillions and trillions of things happening constantly in our universe that our eyes can't see.



Yep, you can be born retarded or severely mentally disabled, and not have the ability to comprehend spiritual connection. However, there are some people who have profound mental handicaps who have still managed to connect spiritually.



They mostly run on instinct. Correct, ants do not generally behave irrationally. How can you say ants are not thinking through their actions? They go obtain a piece of matter and deliver it where it is supposed to be. You're saying they don't have to think in order to do this? Their legs move and bodies come and go, and nothing is controlling that but instinct?



Many animals have complexed language which is actually better than humans because it's universal across the entire species worldwide. They don't have the same sounds with different contextual meaning the way humans do with words. A crow warns of danger the same way in China as in America.



Through observing their behavior, of course.



I've not said this. Our "intellectual level" is largely attributable to our ability to spiritually connect and become inspired to obtain greater wisdom of the universe around us. Still... Would you have any idea which flowers need pollinating if this responsibility fell on you tomorrow instead of the bees? We arrogantly presume our "intellectual level" is superior because of our perspective.

Is superstition not a manifestation of spiritual connection, like religion? If not, why not?

It is, but just as some religions have become extinct, it's because of human misinterpretation of spiritual connection. It's amazing to me how the god-haters can point to all the failed spiritual beliefs through the ages and claim this somehow disproves spirituality, while ignoring the mountain of failed and disproved scientific theories.

Jupiter existed before we observed it. The spiritual may as well. However, the idea that that is not in question is simply ludicrous. Of course it is, and should be, in question, especially if it is like your example of Jupiter. Why should anyone have simply taken someone's word for the existence of Jupiter before there was evidence for it? Before man could do more than look into the sky with his naked eye?

The point is, Jupiter did exist long before we discovered it was there. The fact that we didn't know it was there or couldn't see it, did not mean it didn't exist and wasn't there. No one should take anyone's word for anything, that's not the point I am making here. To bow up and proclaim that it's ludicrous to believe in Spiritual God because you can't see it or verify it exists, is no different than someone before the discovery of Jupiter making the same claim. Why that's ridiculous, a planet 100x larger than Earth certainly doesn't exist or we would see it in the sky! ...Why that's absurd, if the Earth were round the water would run off the oceans! By the way, the later was actually an argument made against the theory of a round Earth. People are sometimes too 'smart' for their own good.

No one will ever accuse you of being too smart for your own good.
This post of yours is a low point.
Rambling, self-contradictory and complete hogwash.
You have succeeded in proving that there is nothing about your position that can be shown, supported or explained. The desperation of this post was your Waterloo.

 

[Boss]

Your version is "spiritual nature".

Not just me. Most all humans for all of history. a very slim minority of the species arrogantly proclaims to not believe in spiritual nature, and that has also always been the case throughout history.

Already agreed most people create a rationalization for their fears and to explain what they can't. The simpler the tribe the more likely it is to invent the rationalization.
Arrogance? Simply your opinion, and not supported by any data. Just a whine.
It's ok. We're used to it.

Except that you've shown no logical evidence that humans created a rationalization for spiritual nature out of fear or for any other reason. This "theory" is not supported by any data including logic and rational thought.

 

[orogenicman]

Not just me. Most all humans for all of history. a very slim minority of the species arrogantly proclaims to not believe in spiritual nature, and that has also always been the case throughout history.

Already agreed most people create a rationalization for their fears and to explain what they can't. The simpler the tribe the more likely it is to invent the rationalization.
Arrogance? Simply your opinion, and not supported by any data. Just a whine.
It's ok. We're used to it.

Except that you've shown no logical evidence that humans created a rationalization for spiritual nature out of fear or for any other reason. This "theory" is not supported by any data including logic and rational thought.

People have blamed bumps in the night on ghosts from time immemorial, despite the fact that they are just bumps in the night. The unexplained is not unexplainable. But that hasn't stopped fearful people from rationalizing all kinds of crap when a simple explanation could have sufficed.

 

[thebrucebeat]

Not just me. Most all humans for all of history. a very slim minority of the species arrogantly proclaims to not believe in spiritual nature, and that has also always been the case throughout history.

Already agreed most people create a rationalization for their fears and to explain what they can't. The simpler the tribe the more likely it is to invent the rationalization.
Arrogance? Simply your opinion, and not supported by any data. Just a whine.
It's ok. We're used to it.

Except that you've shown no logical evidence that humans created a rationalization for spiritual nature out of fear or for any other reason. This "theory" is not supported by any data including logic and rational thought.

How many books and papers stating the same thing shall I cite for you?
Dream on, child.
It is you that has never provided a single stick of evidence other than "I say so".

 

[I.P.Freely]

Sweden,Denmark and Norway are the three nations that are in the top five largest % atheist/agnostic of the population, in the world.They also have some of the best social welfare systems in the world.There must be a rational reason why they kicked god to the curb.

Quality social health care, education and pensions are miraculous things.

 

[Boss]

Already agreed most people create a rationalization for their fears and to explain what they can't. The simpler the tribe the more likely it is to invent the rationalization.
Arrogance? Simply your opinion, and not supported by any data. Just a whine.
It's ok. We're used to it.

Except that you've shown no logical evidence that humans created a rationalization for spiritual nature out of fear or for any other reason. This "theory" is not supported by any data including logic and rational thought.

How many books and papers stating the same thing shall I cite for you?
Dream on, child.
It is you that has never provided a single stick of evidence other than "I say so".

You can cite as many books as you want to, for every one you cite, I can cite one with a counter-opinion. We don't base knowledge on what random people write in books. Present some fucking science here, or stop making your ridiculous claims.

I want to see some real scientific data to suggest that humans invented a rationalization for spiritual nature out of fear (or for any other reason) and if you can't provide that evidence, it's fine for you to just admit this is a speculative OPINION.

I'm not the one presenting "I say so" arguments, that is you and your ilk. Over and over again, as if you believe you can repeat it enough to make it true. I presented MY argument, backed it up with what we observe in nature and what Darwin says about natural selection. My "evidence" is over 100k years of human history and mankind's inseparable connection to spiritual nature. It's not ME saying it, it's literally billions and billions of testimonials from humans since the beginning of civilization, including some of the great scientists you hold near and dear. Your OPINION is in the vast and overwhelming minority.

 

[Boss]

Sweden,Denmark and Norway are the three nations that are in the top five largest atheist/agnostic populations in the world.They also have some of the best social welfare systems in the world.There must be a rational reason why they kicked god to the curb.

Quality social health care, education and pensions are miraculous things.

None of the countries you listed are majority Atheist.

Sweden 34%
Denmark 24%
Norway 29%

In each of the three, the number who say they believe in God or a spiritual life force:

Sweden 63%
Denmark 75%
Norway 66%

Demographics of atheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

.............Ruh-Roh!

 

[Hollie]

Not just me. Most all humans for all of history. a very slim minority of the species arrogantly proclaims to not believe in spiritual nature, and that has also always been the case throughout history.

Already agreed most people create a rationalization for their fears and to explain what they can't. The simpler the tribe the more likely it is to invent the rationalization.
Arrogance? Simply your opinion, and not supported by any data. Just a whine.
It's ok. We're used to it.

Except that you've shown no logical evidence that humans created a rationalization for spiritual nature out of fear or for any other reason. This "theory" is not supported by any data including logic and rational thought.

Your invention of something you call "spiritual nature" simply calms an emotional requirement for belief in supernaturalism.

What you consistently fail to do is make an honest acknowledgement that you have incorporated the various human assigned attributes shared by all gods into some god-amalgam you now call "spiritual nature".

 

[I.P.Freely]

Sweden,Denmark and Norway are the three nations that are in the top five largest atheist/agnostic populations in the world.They also have some of the best social welfare systems in the world.There must be a rational reason why they kicked god to the curb.

Quality social health care, education and pensions are miraculous things.

None of the countries you listed are majority Atheist.

Sweden 34%
Denmark 24%
Norway 29%

In each of the three, the number who say they believe in God or a spiritual life force:

Sweden 63%
Denmark 75%
Norway 66%

Demographics of atheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

.............Ruh-Roh!

learn to read twerp, "atheists/agnostics", and you quote Wiki
http://www.thechapmans.nl/news/Atheist.pdf

 

[Hollie]

Sweden,Denmark and Norway are the three nations that are in the top five largest atheist/agnostic populations in the world.They also have some of the best social welfare systems in the world.There must be a rational reason why they kicked god to the curb.

Quality social health care, education and pensions are miraculous things.

None of the countries you listed are majority Atheist.

Sweden 34%
Denmark 24%
Norway 29%

In each of the three, the number who say they believe in God or a spiritual life force:

Sweden 63%
Denmark 75%
Norway 66%

Demographics of atheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

.............Ruh-Roh!

You're not understanding what the data shows. Quite clearly, people are moving away from the current configuration of a monotheistic god. A simple examination of human history has shown that previous configurations of multiple, unionized gods have been replaced with a one-stop shopping god of convenience.

As knowledge grows, religion withers-- we can see living proof of this as people liberalize their religions, or as they leave the religions they were born into to seek "answers" in other religions, "spiritual life forces" or as they abandon religion altogether, or as they "all of the above."

 

[thebrucebeat]

Except that you've shown no logical evidence that humans created a rationalization for spiritual nature out of fear or for any other reason. This "theory" is not supported by any data including logic and rational thought.

How many books and papers stating the same thing shall I cite for you?
Dream on, child.
It is you that has never provided a single stick of evidence other than "I say so".

You can cite as many books as you want to, for every one you cite, I can cite one with a counter-opinion. We don't base knowledge on what random people write in books. Present some fucking science here, or stop making your ridiculous claims.

I want to see some real scientific data to suggest that humans invented a rationalization for spiritual nature out of fear (or for any other reason) and if you can't provide that evidence, it's fine for you to just admit this is a speculative OPINION.

I'm not the one presenting "I say so" arguments, that is you and your ilk. Over and over again, as if you believe you can repeat it enough to make it true. I presented MY argument, backed it up with what we observe in nature and what Darwin says about natural selection. My "evidence" is over 100k years of human history and mankind's inseparable connection to spiritual nature. It's not ME saying it, it's literally billions and billions of testimonials from humans since the beginning of civilization, including some of the great scientists you hold near and dear. Your OPINION is in the vast and overwhelming minority.

But it isn't the minority opinion among people that make science their lives. It isn't the minority opinion of people in MENSA. Education and intelligence cures your irrational need to rush in and fill in the blanks to quell your fears.
The "evidence" isn't a connection with some completely undefined spiritual nature. It is the "belief" in one. We have no disagreement about what the evidence actually is, only the conclusion you reach. You are taking anecdotal evidence as conclusive accurate proof of the claim, and of course it is nothing of the kind. The only other evidence you have ever presented is that you personally "know" spiritual nature exists. Given the poor intellectual judgment you have frequently shown, that has less weight than it would have in any case, which is essentially zero anyway.

 

[Boss]

Sweden,Denmark and Norway are the three nations that are in the top five largest atheist/agnostic populations in the world.They also have some of the best social welfare systems in the world.There must be a rational reason why they kicked god to the curb.

Quality social health care, education and pensions are miraculous things.

None of the countries you listed are majority Atheist.

Sweden 34%
Denmark 24%
Norway 29%

In each of the three, the number who say they believe in God or a spiritual life force:

Sweden 63%
Denmark 75%
Norway 66%

Demographics of atheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

.............Ruh-Roh!

learn to read twerp, "atheists/agnostics", and you quote Wiki
http://www.thechapmans.nl/news/Atheist.pdf

LMFAO... Since when do Atheists get to count agnostics as people who DO NOT believe in God? It's kind of like a democrat or republican claiming all the undecided and third party voters, isn't it?

Also... TWERP... I didn't "quote" Wiki, I posted data compiled at Wiki, it is sourced.

 

[Boss]

You're not understanding what the data shows. Quite clearly, people are moving away from the current configuration of a monotheistic god.

The data doesn't show that.

 

[Montrovant]

Awareness of spiritual connection is a sense? That's kind of like me asking what sense you use for the awareness of your skin being in contact with an object, and instead of saying the sense of touch, you say that awareness of being in contact with an object is the sense.

Well what is the sense of touch? Isn't it the awareness of your skin being in contact with an object? The word "touch" is just a name we assigned to that sense of awareness.

What portion of the brain is used in this sense, what sort of signals does it receive?

It doesn't matter, this has nothing to do with the intrinsic spiritual connection itself. Your eyes are able to register reflection of light through your optic nerve to create an image your brain recognizes as our sense of sight, but this has nothing to do with literally trillions and trillions of things happening constantly in our universe that our eyes can't see.



Yep, you can be born retarded or severely mentally disabled, and not have the ability to comprehend spiritual connection. However, there are some people who have profound mental handicaps who have still managed to connect spiritually.



They mostly run on instinct. Correct, ants do not generally behave irrationally. How can you say ants are not thinking through their actions? They go obtain a piece of matter and deliver it where it is supposed to be. You're saying they don't have to think in order to do this? Their legs move and bodies come and go, and nothing is controlling that but instinct?



Many animals have complexed language which is actually better than humans because it's universal across the entire species worldwide. They don't have the same sounds with different contextual meaning the way humans do with words. A crow warns of danger the same way in China as in America.



Through observing their behavior, of course.



I've not said this. Our "intellectual level" is largely attributable to our ability to spiritually connect and become inspired to obtain greater wisdom of the universe around us. Still... Would you have any idea which flowers need pollinating if this responsibility fell on you tomorrow instead of the bees? We arrogantly presume our "intellectual level" is superior because of our perspective.

Is superstition not a manifestation of spiritual connection, like religion? If not, why not?

It is, but just as some religions have become extinct, it's because of human misinterpretation of spiritual connection. It's amazing to me how the god-haters can point to all the failed spiritual beliefs through the ages and claim this somehow disproves spirituality, while ignoring the mountain of failed and disproved scientific theories.

Jupiter existed before we observed it. The spiritual may as well. However, the idea that that is not in question is simply ludicrous. Of course it is, and should be, in question, especially if it is like your example of Jupiter. Why should anyone have simply taken someone's word for the existence of Jupiter before there was evidence for it? Before man could do more than look into the sky with his naked eye?

The point is, Jupiter did exist long before we discovered it was there. The fact that we didn't know it was there or couldn't see it, did not mean it didn't exist and wasn't there. No one should take anyone's word for anything, that's not the point I am making here. To bow up and proclaim that it's ludicrous to believe in Spiritual God because you can't see it or verify it exists, is no different than someone before the discovery of Jupiter making the same claim. Why that's ridiculous, a planet 100x larger than Earth certainly doesn't exist or we would see it in the sky! ...Why that's absurd, if the Earth were round the water would run off the oceans! By the way, the later was actually an argument made against the theory of a round Earth. People are sometimes too 'smart' for their own good.

Just going to reply to a couple of points.

First, you said that humans connecting to something spiritual was without question, and used the Jupiter example to bolster that claim. That is why I said what I did. Whether or not you are correct, it is certainly not true that we connect to something spiritual without question.

Second, you not only did not provide a single example of an animal which uses a complex language anywhere close to on par with human language, you actually furthered your claim by saying that many animals have complex language which is the same across the world. Do you have any specific examples? Have we seen these animals teaching their young the language, or is it something they are born knowing? Is much research being done to allow us to communicate with these animals, to learn their language?

I think you are mistaking all verbal communication for language. The one does not have to be the other.

 

[BreezeWood]

. My "evidence" is over 100k years of human history and mankind's inseparable connection to spiritual nature. It's not ME saying it, it's literally billions and billions of testimonials from humans since the beginning of civilization ...

... and mankind's inseparable connection to spiritual nature.


it may just be my opinion but of all the life forms on earth, humanity seems the less "conected" to spiritual nature than all the others life forms in existence, and in fact it is not being connected that seems to be the driving force and root cause for humanities insecurity.

whether being connected or not may be irrelevant to what is being connected to it certainly would explain the reason for creating myths and fables to explain what has to date not become a proven fact.

.

 

[orogenicman]

. My "evidence" is over 100k years of human history and mankind's inseparable connection to spiritual nature. It's not ME saying it, it's literally billions and billions of testimonials from humans since the beginning of civilization ...

... and mankind's inseparable connection to spiritual nature.


it may just be my opinion but of all the life forms on earth, humanity seems the less "conected" to spiritual nature than all the others life forms in existence, and in fact it is not being connected that seems to be the driving force and root cause for humanities insecurity.

whether being connected or not may be irrelevant to what is being connected to it certainly would explain the reason for creating myths and fables to explain what has to date not become a proven fact.

.

That and the innate fear of angry alpha males.

 

[sealybobo]

Well I thought I had defined it way back in the OP or at least the first page, but let me do it again for clarification. Human spirituality is the intrinsic awareness humans have of something greater than self which can't be physically defined. So that's what it means and that's what it is. Because it's not physical in nature, humans have a hard time grasping it or comprehending it completely, so they create incarnations of "god" or various religions to help them better understand this thing they are connecting with.

Yes, I very much do believe that we may one day be able to observe, test and define things that are "spiritual" through physical science. In fact, haven't we already done so in many instances? (Movement of the Sun and Moon, heliocentricity, rain, etc.) Currently, scientist are working on quantum physics and string theory, which involve the possibility of other universes and dimensions where our laws of physics and nature may not apply. Could be that "spiritual nature" is simply another dimension hovering just above our own plane of reality that we can't see or confirm physically?



But I did. Our most advanced and sophisticated species has not very likely adopted some superficial and imaginary belief in something that isn't real for all of our existence, by which it has garnered inspiration and courage to do the otherwise impossible and achieve the things man has accomplished. If we have, it's the most exceptional and extraordinary mind fuck in the history of nature. Since we don't observe other species adopting similar superficial attributes which have no meaning yet cause great benefits, we have to conclude that's probably not what's happening with humans and spiritual connection. All I did was point out that even the Darwinian theories of natural selection can't support this argument of an 'imagined' spiritual connection without reason or fundamental purpose.

What is the sense we use to come by this awareness? Is there a physical organ which provides our ability to sense the spiritual? You say people have this inherent awareness despite the fact that the awareness takes many different forms and some don't seem to have it at all.

The sense is awareness of spiritual nature. The physical organ involved is the brain, or more specifically, the conscious mind. The awareness itself doesn't take many different forms, the awareness causes creation of many various incarnations. Every human has it, some simply do not use it. Some humans can swim while others can't, but it doesn't mean they lack some attribute the swimmers have, it's just they have never learned how to swim.



You're taking my argument out of context again. I mentioned our advancement because you wouldn't expect to find something as advanced over all other living things, doing something totally irrational and without reason.



I think you are wrong about a lot of this. Lots of animals have complex language and there are examples of ritual behavior as well. Even something as small as a lab rat understands and ascribes meaning to things. And let me clarify, I don't know if other animals have spiritual connection, they may have. If they do, it appears they deal with comprehending it much better than humans who feel compelled to create all kinds of religions and means of worshiping it. Perhaps the other animals are different from humans in humbleness and 'know what side the bread is buttered on' with regard to spiritual nature, and don't arrogantly think they know more than God?

You've agreed that humans can think and reason in ways no other animal can, yet fail to see that our imagination is tied to our intelligence and, as such, leaves the possibility of creating meaning where none exists. Since you have as much as said that religions are created by man, and since religion has existed for a large majority of our history, that strikes me as incongruous. If man can imagine religion in such numbers, for so long, why could we not do the same for spiritual nature? Again, I'm not even attempting to argue that spiritual nature doesn't exist, merely that the possibility that humanity has invented the various spiritual beliefs it has held is not contradicted by science or logic.

I've never said we can't create meaning where none exists through imagination. However, it is very unlikely this is what we did with spiritual connection. The example I can relate this to for comparison is superstitions. While there are still people who are superstitious, most of us know that it's a novelty and not something profoundly fundamental. Once upon a time, superstitions were a very serious thing, people really believed and lived by them. As science advanced and dispelled the superstitions, fewer and fewer people took them seriously. With human spirituality, we don't see this happening. Humans remain devoutly connected spiritually to something greater than self. Humans continue to report tremendous benefit from inspiration and courage derived through their spiritual connection.

There may be some kind of spiritual connection shared by all humanity, there may not. Until and unless the spiritual can be clearly defined and understood, perhaps observed, that existence is as open to question as any incarnation of god.

I agree that various incarnations of God are subject to disbelief. That humans are connecting to something greater than self, which we've defined as "spiritual" for now, is without question. Things simply do not have to be observed to be true or exist. I offer again, my Jupiter example... Did the planet Jupiter not exist until we observed it and confirmed it? Our inability to observe and confirm spiritual nature is insignificant, we have an intrinsic hard-wired connection to it.

And until we know more the proper response is you don't know and agnostic atheism is the most rational position.

 

[GISMYS]

What is the sense we use to come by this awareness? Is there a physical organ which provides our ability to sense the spiritual? You say people have this inherent awareness despite the fact that the awareness takes many different forms and some don't seem to have it at all.

The sense is awareness of spiritual nature. The physical organ involved is the brain, or more specifically, the conscious mind. The awareness itself doesn't take many different forms, the awareness causes creation of many various incarnations. Every human has it, some simply do not use it. Some humans can swim while others can't, but it doesn't mean they lack some attribute the swimmers have, it's just they have never learned how to swim.



You're taking my argument out of context again. I mentioned our advancement because you wouldn't expect to find something as advanced over all other living things, doing something totally irrational and without reason.



I think you are wrong about a lot of this. Lots of animals have complex language and there are examples of ritual behavior as well. Even something as small as a lab rat understands and ascribes meaning to things. And let me clarify, I don't know if other animals have spiritual connection, they may have. If they do, it appears they deal with comprehending it much better than humans who feel compelled to create all kinds of religions and means of worshiping it. Perhaps the other animals are different from humans in humbleness and 'know what side the bread is buttered on' with regard to spiritual nature, and don't arrogantly think they know more than God?



I've never said we can't create meaning where none exists through imagination. However, it is very unlikely this is what we did with spiritual connection. The example I can relate this to for comparison is superstitions. While there are still people who are superstitious, most of us know that it's a novelty and not something profoundly fundamental. Once upon a time, superstitions were a very serious thing, people really believed and lived by them. As science advanced and dispelled the superstitions, fewer and fewer people took them seriously. With human spirituality, we don't see this happening. Humans remain devoutly connected spiritually to something greater than self. Humans continue to report tremendous benefit from inspiration and courage derived through their spiritual connection.

There may be some kind of spiritual connection shared by all humanity, there may not. Until and unless the spiritual can be clearly defined and understood, perhaps observed, that existence is as open to question as any incarnation of god.

I agree that various incarnations of God are subject to disbelief. That humans are connecting to something greater than self, which we've defined as "spiritual" for now, is without question. Things simply do not have to be observed to be true or exist. I offer again, my Jupiter example... Did the planet Jupiter not exist until we observed it and confirmed it? Our inability to observe and confirm spiritual nature is insignificant, we have an intrinsic hard-wired connection to it.

And until we know more the proper response is you don't know and agnostic atheism is the most rational position.

Far too late to wise up on judgment day!!! think!

 

[sealybobo]

None of the countries you listed are majority Atheist.

Sweden 34%
Denmark 24%
Norway 29%

In each of the three, the number who say they believe in God or a spiritual life force:

Sweden 63%
Denmark 75%
Norway 66%

Demographics of atheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

.............Ruh-Roh!

learn to read twerp, "atheists/agnostics", and you quote Wiki
http://www.thechapmans.nl/news/Atheist.pdf

LMFAO... Since when do Atheists get to count agnostics as people who DO NOT believe in God? It's kind of like a democrat or republican claiming all the undecided and third party voters, isn't it?

Also... TWERP... I didn't "quote" Wiki, I posted data compiled at Wiki, it is sourced.

Most scientists who know that 99.999% chance their is no god also say the most rational position on god is to be an agnostic atheist. You don't seem to be all that sharp. I see people saying things to you like "agnostic" and you seem to be grasping for AHAH or GOTCHA moments but all you are showing us is that you do not understand or listen to what people say to you. The definition of close minded. Even an atheist can not say 100% sure there is no god just like we can't prove there are no leprechauns, devils angels or ghosts exists.

So all the organized religions you understand to be bullshit yet you refuse to let go of the concept of god for some strange reason. Because now all you have is a feeling, and the fact that primative man always believed in a higher power. Maybe they saw aliens and thought they were gods? Why not rule that possibility out?