Why do use a Bible when the first Christians didn't?

[JakeStarkey]

Great OP and a horrible dilemma for Biblical literalists.

 

[Sonny Clark]

During Jesus' ministry period there were no Bibles. Not even a single Christian text yet, nor would there be for at least 30 years after Jesus' death (or whatever.) And what would become the New Testament didn't exist until at least 100 years after-Jesus. Even then, the first Bibles wouldn't exist for several centuries more.

So if you follow Jesus (or more likely Paul) identifying as a Christian, why use a book neither Jesus nor his disciples or their followers used?

Pleeeeeease .......... use common sense, and you can answer that question yourself. Had that second cup yet? If not, get it to clear your head a little, or a lot.

Jesus taught what he taught absent a Bible. I wonder then if Christians have effectively abandoned Jesus' teachings for a book they placed too much importance upon.

How often do Christians say, "The Bible says..." instead of "Jesus taught..."

To Christians, the Bible is the word of GOD, the teachings of Jesus, and a guide for all of us to live by. The Bible teaches love above all else. Jesus was given the word by the father, GOD. Man took what Jesus said and put it into words, either through stories handed down through generations, or in writings. Even though the Bible has been translated many times, in many different languages, the basic meanings were carried forward each time. The Bible stands as the word of GOD, and the teachings of Jesus.

 

[BluePhantom]

Delta, I can't believe you are even asking this question. Jesus referred to scripture all the time, He just referred to the Tanakh. Obviously he is not going to refer to Christian writings because they hadn't been written yet. Christianity didn't even exist until Jesus died. Christian writings, such as the gospels, didn't get written for decades probably because the first hand sources started dying off and people realized they had better write it all down to preserve it. But Jesus referred to the written word all the time.

I gotta say, brother. Sometime you ask some damn good questions....with respect, this one aint one of them.

 

[Avatar4321]

Why would the new testament cease to be an authority because the apostles didn't use it? It's an authority because they wrote it.

Every dispensation of the gospel has been characterized.with additional scripture because those called of God to teach the plan of redemption write their testimony of what God has communicated to them which becomes scripture.

 

[Meriweather]

During Jesus' ministry period there were no Bibles. Not even a single Christian text yet, nor would there be for at least 30 years after Jesus' death (or whatever.) And what would become the New Testament didn't exist until at least 100 years after-Jesus. Even then, the first Bibles wouldn't exist for several centuries more.

So if you follow Jesus (or more likely Paul) identifying as a Christian, why use a book neither Jesus nor his disciples or their followers used?

Word of mouth to
Handwritten word to
Type-print word to
Online word

Early Christians believed they were living in end times. Ink and parchment were expensive, not to mention the time (and further expense) it took to write each individual book.

Your question might be considered similar to asking, "If you truly thought your great-grandparents were wonderful, why aren't you listening to a radio instead perusing the Internet? Time moves on and things change.

 

[zaangalewa]

... So if you follow Jesus (or more likely Paul) identifying as a Christian, why use a book neither Jesus nor his disciples or their followers used?

The writings of the bible - the stories - existed. The bible canonized some of this writings. This means not that this writings are perfect or everyone is able to understand always everything - and this means also not other writings are always or only wrong. Truth is always true - independent from every form of tradition.

Martin Luther - who translated within two weeks the bible the first time in history into the german language - and Johannes Gutenberg who produced this book for everyone - made the bible so popular. With them started the era of information processing. Processors are for example also printed today - so your processor is in the tradition of the bible.

And Paulus together with Peter and others in Jerusalem opened the jewish religion of Jesus for the leading greek culture within the roman empire. The word of god was like a long expected rain for the dry soil of the mighty emptyness of the empire. In the bible is something written about. To read or not to read is maybe still the question because There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, then are dreamt of in your philosophy.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Why would the new testament cease to be an authority because the apostles didn't use it? It's an authority because they wrote it.

Every dispensation of the gospel has been characterized.with additional scripture because those called of God to teach the plan of redemption write their testimony of what God has communicated to them which becomes scripture.

Deuteronomy 13:1 (12:last in Bibles being corrupted) says not to add to or take away from commandments in Torah.

So what do you call the NT?

 

[Sonny Clark]

Why would the new testament cease to be an authority because the apostles didn't use it? It's an authority because they wrote it.

Every dispensation of the gospel has been characterized.with additional scripture because those called of God to teach the plan of redemption write their testimony of what God has communicated to them which becomes scripture.

Deuteronomy 13:1 (12:last in Bibles being corrupted) says not to add to or take away from commandments in Torah.

So what do you call the NT?

What does the book of Revelations in the KJV of the Bible say about that? ( look on the last page of the Bible )

 

[Meriweather]

So what do you call the NT?

What commandment do you see the New Testament adding or subtracting from?

 

[Sonny Clark]

So what do you call the NT?

What commandment do you see the New Testament adding or subtracting from?

The last page of the book of Revelations in the KJV of the Bible.

 

[Sonny Clark]

So what do you call the NT?

What commandment do you see the New Testament adding or subtracting from?

Revelation, Chapter 22, Verse 19 ( King James Bible )

 

[Meriweather]

The last page of the book of Revelations in the KJV of the Bible.

Revelation is not a commandment. It is Apocalyptic literature written to encourage early Christians during their trials with Roman persecution. Its theme is that no matter how badly things seem to get for us here on earth, God is ultimately in control. To support this point, John, the author of Revelation used imagery from Old Testament history, stories, and prophecies to show just as God and good had prevailed over past evils, so would God and good prevail over the Romans and their persecutions.

I was wondering if Delta was thinking of Jesus saying, "You have heard it said to our ancestors, You shall not kill, and whoever kills will be liable to the judgement. But I say to you, whoever is angry with his brother will be liable to the judgement." And....

"You have heard it was said, You shall not commit adultery. But I say to you everyone who looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

 

[Meriweather]

Revelation, Chapter 22, Verse 19 ( King James Bible )

Yes, I know John did not want anyone editing his book, either. But that has nothing to do with the similar warning given in another book (Deuteronomy) during another time.

Given John's warning, got to wonder what he would think of the Left Behind series...

But that's a thought for another thread. Delta's concern is with Commandments being added to (or taken away) from Deuteronomy.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Is this one of those chicken or the egg questions?

Who was the first Christian, Mr. H.? You do realize that Jesus Christ quoted Scripture, right? Yes. He used Scripture to defeat Satan while he was in the wilderness. He responded to Satan, It is written: It is written: Then he quoted the Scriptures. Christians are to follow Christ's example. We are to walk as he walked. We are to do warfare as he did warfare. We are to study the Scriptures and show ourselves approved. This was the command to the early church (long before Roman Catholicism) Listen to what Paul told Timothy. It is written:

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
II Timothy 2;15

Had the Romans had the Scriptures before the early Christians they would not have made so many mistakes in their teaching of it (perhaps?) - from a point of deceiving the people - you see Constantine was a sun god worshiper until his death. He worshipped the son of Semiramis whom she later married claiming he was the reincarnation of her husband Nimrod. Semiramis was a witch that was married to Nimrod and participated in human sacrifice - eating human flesh and drinking human blood - in fact Nimrod's great uncle Shem -(Son of Noah) put him to death cutting him up into pieces as an example for others who followed his occult religion. Semiramis took the occult underground (hidden) and there raised up her own priests and "confessionals" where the members would confess anything they had done wrong and everything was reported back to her. The people called her the "Queen of Heaven" sound familiar? It should.

When Constantine founded Catholicism they used the same rituals - altar / in fact almost the exact same altar used in Satanic human sacrifice is used in the Roman Catholic institution - the golden chalice - the crucifix - it's all part of the occult - which is spiritually why you are - where you are - today. You have to renounce your Catholic roots / worship of Semiramis (who isn't MARY but pretends to be) and break that curse - to be free of it once and for all - one of the indicators is oppression, depression, confusion, addictions - same signs of oppression for anyone who has been raised in a false cult / religion. Believe on Christ and be saved and you'll never be under that oppression again. It is the anointing that breaks the yoke of bondage.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Every time is the answer. Have never in my life heard a Christian say "Jesus taught..." something. It's only ever "The Bible says..."

Why is the Bible the go-to source if Jesus didn't have a Bible? Can't we know what Jesus taught sans Bible? Does it really require a book to inform a conscientious person that being good and positive and helpful is the thing to do in a given situation? Is your faith really wrapped up in a book your god didn't even have?

Jesus had the Jewish version of the Bible. It also prophesied that two different books would become one. This is what makes Mormons think the Book Of Mormon was prophesied, but it was actually the old and the new testaments.

Jesus Christ is the One the Hebrew Prophets prophesied of - He is the Messiah the Jews were waiting. Every page of the Bible is the revelation of Jesus Christ. Every time you see the word LORD written - God written - The Word - written - The Spirit of the LORD - is referring to Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is Yeshua. Jesus Christ is The LORD!

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

During Jesus' ministry period there were no Bibles. Not even a single Christian text yet, nor would there be for at least 30 years after Jesus' death (or whatever.) And what would become the New Testament didn't exist until at least 100 years after-Jesus. Even then, the first Bibles wouldn't exist for several centuries more.

So if you follow Jesus (or more likely Paul) identifying as a Christian, why use a book neither Jesus nor his disciples or their followers used?

Pleeeeeease .......... use common sense, and you can answer that question yourself. Had that second cup yet? If not, get it to clear your head a little, or a lot.

Jesus taught what he taught absent a Bible. I wonder then if Christians have effectively abandoned Jesus' teachings for a book they placed too much importance upon.

How often do Christians say, "The Bible says..." instead of "Jesus taught..."

Have you not heard? In the beginning was the WORD and the WORD was with God, and the WORD was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him, and without him was not anything made that was made. In him was the life and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in the darkness and the darkness comprehendeth it not.
John 1:1-4

Who is the Word, Delta? The Word is Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is The Scriptures you speak of! He IS the WORD of God! In him is life and he is the light that has come into the world! Jesus Christ is the Word and Jesus Christ is the Scriptures that you speak of!

Listen to what Jesus said:
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me that ye might have life.
John 5:39,40

and again it is written:

Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
John 5:45,46,47

 

[BluePhantom]

Why would the new testament cease to be an authority because the apostles didn't use it? It's an authority because they wrote it.

Every dispensation of the gospel has been characterized.with additional scripture because those called of God to teach the plan of redemption write their testimony of what God has communicated to them which becomes scripture.

Deuteronomy 13:1 (12:last in Bibles being corrupted) says not to add to or take away from commandments in Torah.

So what do you call the NT?

Well understand first, that Deuteronomy was not originally part of Torah. It was added centuries later, by the Zadokites (priests), after Cyrus the Great ended the Jewish exile from Jerusalem. Additionally, they heavily redacted Torah when they added Deuteronomy in order to give the priests more authority. To make it even more of a headache there are actually two versions of Deuteronomy from antiquity. One is much longer and one is much shorter and scholars don't know which came first. The discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls was exciting, in part, because scholars hoped to answer the question of which one came first according to which version the Essenes had. Unfortunately they had both too, so it's still a subject of debate. The verse you refer to is probably one of those things that was tossed in there to tell people 'this is the way it's going to be (from now on). Leave it alone and don't change it' even though the priests were changing it themselves. That kind of stuff happened all the time as Torah, and later the Bible, evolved over the centuries.

 

[BluePhantom]

Why would the new testament cease to be an authority because the apostles didn't use it? It's an authority because they wrote it.

Every dispensation of the gospel has been characterized.with additional scripture because those called of God to teach the plan of redemption write their testimony of what God has communicated to them which becomes scripture.

Deuteronomy 13:1 (12:last in Bibles being corrupted) says not to add to or take away from commandments in Torah.

So what do you call the NT?

Well understand first, that Deuteronomy was not originally part of Torah. It was added centuries later, by the Zadokites (priests), after Cyrus the Great ended the Jewish exile from Jerusalem. Additionally, they heavily redacted Torah when they added Deuteronomy in order to give the priests more authority. To make it even more of a headache there are actually two versions of Deuteronomy from antiquity. One is much longer and one is much shorter and scholars don't know which came first. The discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls was exciting, in part, because scholars hoped to answer the question of which one came first according to which version the Essenes had. Unfortunately they had both too, so it's still a subject of debate. The verse you refer to is probably one of those things that was tossed in there to tell people 'this is the way it's going to be (from now on). Leave it alone and don't change it' even though the priests were changing it themselves. That kind of stuff happened all the time as Torah, and later the Bible, evolved over the centuries.

Just a bit of a follow up on this. There is a lot of stuff, especially in the apocrypha, where you have situations where the author is telling people not to do something when the author is doing the exact same thing. This is most common in regards to claims of authorship. It was VERY common for people to write a letter or a book claiming to be an Apostle when they really weren't. It's what is called pseudopigraphy and sometimes the authors go to extraordinary lengths to attempt to prove that they are really the Apostle. Sometimes they will rail on and on about how you should be careful not to believe writings that only claim to be written by an Apostle but really are not. The author is attempting to show that his letter is authentic by hammering the exact same thing he is doing. One of my favorites...I can't remember the specifics off the top of my head, but I think it was claiming to be written by Paul....ended the letter saying something like 'oh by the way, I left my favorite pair of sandals in Jerusalem when I was there with you last. Can you please have Thomas give them to Titus so he can return them to me'.

The church fathers saw right through it even back then which is one of the reasons why many of those writings never made it into the Bible, although some still did (such as 1st and 2nd Timothy, 2nd Thessalonians, and Titus). But when you see stuff like that, or the verse in Deuteronomy you cite, or the end of the Apocalypse that others are referring to....you have to be careful and think 'why is the author tossing this in there'? 'What is he trying to accomplish?' 'Is he warning against changing things because he is trying to cover up the fact that he, himself, is changing it?' Best to take stuff like that with a small grain of salt.

 

[zaangalewa]

Is this one of those chicken or the egg questions?

Who was the first Christian ...

As far as I heard someone who lived in Antiochia in the year 42 was called the first time in history "Christian".

 

[hadit]

During Jesus' ministry period there were no Bibles. Not even a single Christian text yet, nor would there be for at least 30 years after Jesus' death (or whatever.) And what would become the New Testament didn't exist until at least 100 years after-Jesus. Even then, the first Bibles wouldn't exist for several centuries more.

So if you follow Jesus (or more likely Paul) identifying as a Christian, why use a book neither Jesus nor his disciples or their followers used?

Is this even a serious question???

No, it is not a serious question. It would seem that no one is to learn from those who went before. Odd, no?