Why does the left demonize affordable energy?

[washamericom]

how close are we to building solar collector panels into the bodies of cars that sit in the sun all day? florida the west etc. it seems like a partial solution to me.

It's very inefficient. Because most surfaces on the car are not angled towards the sun, you'd be catching very little sunlight, especially at your northern latitude. It would also be adding extra weight to the vehicle, decreasing efficiency further.

The smarter solution? Build a carport, roof angled towards the sun at the correct angle, and put the solar panels on that roof, the power inverter and battery as well, then park there and charge off that. Or put the panels on the roof of the house or garage, if it's south-facing.

i like it... but i think a combination of both. have solar panels become more efficient per square inch or foot ? how important is direct angling ?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Right Cleetus, it's what we have been telling you on the left for years: the earth, climate and temperature do change. That's the way God made this place.

1) There is no God.
2) The changes of the last few decades is more radical than anything we've seen before.

The climate has been changing since he put the earth here, and it will continue to change long after we are gone. How many factories and SUV"s did we have at the beginning of the ice age meltdown?

Okay, Dun, der, Cleetus, the ice age meltdown happened over a period of thousands of years, not mere decades. In short, nature had a change to adapt to the changes through the process of natural selection.

Energy is power, and the more power you give the government, the more they will abuse it as history shows. But you on the left believe that people are too stupid to know what's good for them. Government should make all your decisions for you.

Let's see now, you are terrified of the power being in the hands of a government that stands for election every four years, but you have no problem with it being in the hands of unelected rich people who run big corporations?

Once again, everyone- Battered Wife Conservatism fully on display.

Let's see now, you are terrified of the power being in the hands of a government that stands for election every four years, but you have no problem with it being in the hands of unelected rich people who run big corporations?

Once again, everyone- Battered Wife Conservatism fully on display.

Where is all this power big corporations have? Big corporations don't levy taxes against me. Big corporations don't make laws against me. Big corporations didn't take my healthcare insurance away from me. If big corporations have so much power, they are sure doing a hell of a job hiding that from us. They pay the second highest corporate tax rate in the world.

Okay, Dun, der, Cleetus, the ice age meltdown happened over a period of thousands of years, not mere decades. In short, nature had a change to adapt to the changes through the process of natural selection.

If climate never changed until man changed came around, it doesn't mater if it was a couple thousand years a two hundred thousand years.

1) There is no God.
2) The changes of the last few decades is more radical than anything we've seen before.

And you know that how, by the couple hundreds of years we've been keeping records?

 

[ScienceRocks]

Solar and wind is more affordable over the long term then coal. Why does the right attack renewables?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Solar and wind is more affordable over the long term then coal. Why does the right attack renewables?

We don't, only when it's suggested it should be forced on us.

You want to use alternative energy, fine with us. Just don't tell us what we should or must use.

 

[JoeB131]

If climate never changed until man changed came around, it doesn't mater if it was a couple thousand years a two hundred thousand years.

Jesus Fucking Christ, talking science with you knuckleheads is a chore. Okay, yes, it makes ALL the difference if the temperature changes over time, or changes very quickly, in that life forms can't adapt. Natural selection can't do it's work.

Where is all this power big corporations have? Big corporations don't levy taxes against me. Big corporations don't make laws against me. Big corporations didn't take my healthcare insurance away from me. If big corporations have so much power, they are sure doing a hell of a job hiding that from us. They pay the second highest corporate tax rate in the world.

Guy, the government didn't take your healthcare away from you, your boss did.

And our Corporate Tax rate is one of the lowest when adjusted for the tax code.

And you know that how, by the couple hundreds of years we've been keeping records?

Ice cores, the fossil record, and so on.

Now, there have been times when climate really did change radically, such as the KT Extinction event, when temperatures dropped rapidly after an asteroid hit the earth. 75% of all animal and plant species died out, probably within a year.

 

[Andylusion]

Solar and wind is more affordable over the long term then coal. Why does the right attack renewables?

Because you lie. When you have to lie continuously in order to defend renewables, then obviously they are not a good idea.

When you have to tax poor people, to give subsidies to renewables, in order to make them competitive, then obviously it's not a good idea.

Let me put it another way....

If you remove all subsidies, would they make a competitive product? And the answer is... no. Not even close.

You doubt that?
UK solar power installations plummet after government cuts

Installation of solar green-energy panels, fell like a rock, by nearly 74%, when the government cut the subsidies.

In other words, without subsidies, there would be no solar panel market at all.

Which begs the question, how many other green-energy markets wouldn't exist without direct government subsidies.

And contrary to left-wing mythology, we don't subsidies oil, coal, or gas, or nuclear, by even a faction as much as we subsidizes green energy crap.

If Green energy was a viable replacement, then you wouldn't need an extra penny, taxed from the poor, to pay some rich guy, to make your power.

 

[Andylusion]

If climate never changed until man changed came around, it doesn't mater if it was a couple thousand years a two hundred thousand years.

Jesus Fucking Christ, talking science with you knuckleheads is a chore. Okay, yes, it makes ALL the difference if the temperature changes over time, or changes very quickly, in that life forms can't adapt. Natural selection can't do it's work.

Where is all this power big corporations have? Big corporations don't levy taxes against me. Big corporations don't make laws against me. Big corporations didn't take my healthcare insurance away from me. If big corporations have so much power, they are sure doing a hell of a job hiding that from us. They pay the second highest corporate tax rate in the world.

Guy, the government didn't take your healthcare away from you, your boss did.

And our Corporate Tax rate is one of the lowest when adjusted for the tax code.

And you know that how, by the couple hundreds of years we've been keeping records?

Ice cores, the fossil record, and so on.

Now, there have been times when climate really did change radically, such as the KT Extinction event, when temperatures dropped rapidly after an asteroid hit the earth. 75% of all animal and plant species died out, probably within a year.

No, my boss did not take my health care away from me. Obama care did. My boss had nothing to do with it.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

If climate never changed until man changed came around, it doesn't mater if it was a couple thousand years a two hundred thousand years.

Jesus Fucking Christ, talking science with you knuckleheads is a chore. Okay, yes, it makes ALL the difference if the temperature changes over time, or changes very quickly, in that life forms can't adapt. Natural selection can't do it's work.

Where is all this power big corporations have? Big corporations don't levy taxes against me. Big corporations don't make laws against me. Big corporations didn't take my healthcare insurance away from me. If big corporations have so much power, they are sure doing a hell of a job hiding that from us. They pay the second highest corporate tax rate in the world.

Guy, the government didn't take your healthcare away from you, your boss did.

And our Corporate Tax rate is one of the lowest when adjusted for the tax code.

And you know that how, by the couple hundreds of years we've been keeping records?

Ice cores, the fossil record, and so on.

Now, there have been times when climate really did change radically, such as the KT Extinction event, when temperatures dropped rapidly after an asteroid hit the earth. 75% of all animal and plant species died out, probably within a year.

Ice cores, the fossil record, and so on.

Now, there have been times when climate really did change radically, such as the KT Extinction event, when temperatures dropped rapidly after an asteroid hit the earth. 75% of all animal and plant species died out, probably within a year.

Obviously you have a problem distinguishing between theory and fact.

As I stated, the climate has been changing since this earth was put here by God. And if we stopped every motor vehicle......every factory......every energy source, the climate will continue to change.

On that note, are you willing to use public transportation everywhere you go? Are you willing to spend the tens of thousands of dollars it would cost you to use solar panels on your roof and erect a windmill in your yard? Are you willing to keep your thermostat set at 58 degrees in the winter and 75 degrees in the summer? How many of these things do you do now?

I bet not one. I bet you don't even participate in recycling. I bet that you don't even own a bicycle yet alone ride one.

Guy, the government didn't take your healthcare away from you, your boss did.

And our Corporate Tax rate is one of the lowest when adjusted for the tax code.

Of course it is. That's why they are leaving this country by the droves. Would you like me to post my FactCheck article that disagrees with your opinion?

Jesus Fucking Christ, talking science with you knuckleheads is a chore. Okay, yes, it makes ALL the difference if the temperature changes over time, or changes very quickly, in that life forms can't adapt. Natural selection can't do it's work.

So what life form do we have now that's not adapting?

 

[Skull Pilot]

And in using your illustration, tell me how is this solar farm supposed to get me to work? How is supposed to power large vehicles such as trains, ships and trucks to get goods to market?
.
Have at it.

Biodiesel. Trains running on electric, generated by solar thermal hybrid power plants, or diesel generators on board. You're aware of the fact that they're growing an algae that can be cut into existing diesel gotten from petroleum? The more they progress with that technology, the less we're going to have to rely on petroleum for diesel.

Between solar thermal hybrid turbines, geothermal turbines and biodiesel, we've got it sewn up in the bag. Keep your damn profits. We just want a cleaner earth and less bullshit in the Middle East.

Bio-diesel is only useful in temperate climates. When exposed to cold temperatures, bio diesel coagulates. Leaving the vehicle useless.

The easy fix for bio diesel gelling in winter is to have 2 tanks. In cold weather start up on standard diesel and use the heat from the engine to warm up the bio diesel

 

[jon_berzerk]

Ivanpah Solar Power Facility - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ivanpah is a failure. If you don't think so then please realize that this is one of the sunniest places in the United States and it can't meet its contractual obligations.

The answer is not these big public money funded projects but smaller solar and wind for residential service.

The footprint of individual solar is already occupied by the existing rooftops of the homes that will benefit for the additional electric generation. Small commercial wind can generate energy day and night in areas that are already developed for commercial or industrial use with requiring land grants of land or destroying the view from our coastlines.

Our politicians are pushing these large project because there is a lot of money being passed around to secure future energy monopolies.

If you belief that solar that doesn't work at night or in bad weather will ever replace oil, coal, natural gas then you don't understand the inherent limitations of the technology. If you believe that setting up multi-billion dollar facilities that require more public money and land while needing further subsidies in the form of higher energy costs for users is the best solution then you are wrong again.

Give people a tax credit and change the rules to make the current energy provider work with these systems. Let the user mount a system on their home or business. Then they can make the investment calculation that is right for them. The technology will come down in cost and become more viable over time.

Then you have the best of all worlds. Free market solutions really make the most sense.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

yes

when it is not cooking the local wildlife

it is setting itself on fire

Errant concentrated sunbeam starts fire at solar thermal plant in the desert

 

[Skull Pilot]

No matter how you slice it a windmill only produces less that 30% of its rated capacity. That number has been proven by real life performance.
Solar only works half the time and that's fine but be honest about it.

While I think large wind farms are a complete waste of money and not to mention a blight on the land, I think solar is a good option but not the large solar farms the left seems to want. IMO solar is a great point of use option that can be tied into the local grids kind of like a trickle charger so it doesn't have to provide base line power loads but instead supplements power production.

We have hundreds of thousands of acres of unused south and southwest facing roof tops in this country. It seems to me it would make more sense and be infinitely more affordable to use all that acreage for the installation of point of use panel arrays and tie them all to the grid

 

[elektra]

There is no such thing, as Clean, Green, Sustainable, Renewable energy. Why do they have 4 names for it? Because they are trying different marketing gimmicks to see which one catches on.

Why does the left demonize affordable energy, so that we look to the left to save us.

Solar and Wind Energy uses more natural resources to build then conventional power sources. The idea is to use more, quicker, to create less. That is the very definition of "wasteful".

But it does give more money to the Stock Market, to Wall St., to Banks, even to the government.

$36 Trillion dollars is the price tag to build the utopia.

But, it destroys the World as has completely failed thus far, where it is manufactured it is a toxic wasteland. Where it is installed it destroys the land by the square mile, 1,000's of square miles. It requires so much land that the land is literally given to corporations. That is public land is given to Solar and Wind power companies.

And the fact is, Solar and Wind do not replace Oil, they use Oil. We do not use Oil to make electricity, so this idea that Solar and Wind are saving Oil is wrong. The simple fact is that Solar and Wind require Oil to be built and given that Solar and Wind is going to be manufactured forever, Oil use has increased forever.

Why does the Left demonize affordable energy.

Because Energy is power, Energy makes a country strong, and affordable energy improves our standard of living.

 

[pwjohn]

I'm paying 8 cents per kwh around these here parts which is pretty reasonable although by the time they throw in all the bullroar it works out to almost 10 cents per kwh. Still very reasonable. But for some reason I was still getting hammered with huge power bills last winter, approaching 300 bucks a month. That's a lot of money for just one person in a 1200 sqft trailer.And I was setting my stat for 62 during the day, 64 at night. Brrrrrrr

Of course I had some strikes gainst me, like straight cool a/c with electric heat and the trailer part..Lousy insulation.

So, I called the power company and they told me that the pevious tennents power bills were running more than twice as much, or more, the previous year as I was running this year. And, they went on to tell me there was nothing I could do about it because I was living in a trailer equipped with an electric heat furnace.

I thought otherwise so I pulled the panels on my electric furnace and discovered the problem in about the blink of an eye, or so.

A previous malfunction had burned out the heat strips, and sequencers, which is no big deal really, except the bozo doing the work didn't have a clue what he was doing.

He installed new heat strips, then used contactors instead of sequeners to fire everything up. Including the blower motor. And to top it off, he overized the heat strips by a lot. 15 kw is what he went in with, when 5 kw, or 7.5 kw is all that was needed.

So the moral to this story; if you think your power bill is to high, look ito it.

And now with summer time rapidly approaching , I noticed my a/c wasn't up to the task. So I'll be looking into that real soon to see whats up.

 

[JoeB131]

No, my boss did not take my health care away from me. Obama care did. My boss had nothing to do with it.

I was talking to Raycist from Cleveland, not you. His sad story was his poor employer couldn't afford health insurance anymore and put him on ObamaCare, and even though Raycist is an incredibly successful and so much better than those Darkies kind of guy, he apparently can't throw out some resumes and get a better paying job with decent health coverage.

I'm sure if you retell your sad story, we'd hear something similar, though.

Of course it is. That's why they are leaving this country by the droves. Would you like me to post my FactCheck article that disagrees with your opinion?

They are leaving hte country because they can get cheap-ass third world labor and poor toxic shit in the water supply. And you want us to be just like those countries.

So what life form do we have now that's not adapting?

All the ones that are going extinct, you fucking dumbass.

What Animals Are Likely to Go Extinct First Due to Climate Change

Science. I know it's hard to get your mind around because they don't done talk about Jesus!!!!

 

[JoeB131]

As I stated, the climate has been changing since this earth was put here by God. And if we stopped every motor vehicle......every factory......every energy source, the climate will continue to change.

There is no God. What there are laws of science. Like if you increase the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere, you trap heat and have a runaway greenhouse effect.

Which is what you have on Venus. Where they don't believe in Jesus because nothing lives there!

On that note, are you willing to use public transportation everywhere you go? Are you willing to spend the tens of thousands of dollars it would cost you to use solar panels on your roof and erect a windmill in your yard? Are you willing to keep your thermostat set at 58 degrees in the winter and 75 degrees in the summer? How many of these things do you do now?

I bet not one. I bet you don't even participate in recycling. I bet that you don't even own a bicycle yet alone ride one.

They don't have public transportation out where I live.
I live in a condo so I don't have a yard.
I do keep the thermostat at 65 in the winter and in the summer, I don't use the AC.
I have a bike, but i use it for excercise, not transportation

Recycling has nothing to do with energy and in many ways, it actually cost more energy to recycle some things, such as paper. So that's just a "Feel Good".

But again, much like wanting to yank Al Gore's Jet, that's all symbolic and not real. What we NEED to do is have POLICY to achieve goals on a marco-level. That means more research into renewables. It means mandating fuel efficiency without any bullshit "SUV" exceptions. That means investing more in public transportation.

and yes, i think there are some not liberal things we need to do. We need to put more into Nuclear Energy, and stop letting the folks in Nevada con us on Yucca Mountain. You took the money to build it, you take the fuel like you promised.

 

[davecmarino]

Ivanpah Solar Power Facility - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ivanpah is a failure. If you don't think so then please realize that this is one of the sunniest places in the United States and it can't meet its contractual obligations.

The answer is not these big public money funded projects but smaller solar and wind for residential service.

The footprint of individual solar is already occupied by the existing rooftops of the homes that will benefit for the additional electric generation. Small commercial wind can generate energy day and night in areas that are already developed for commercial or industrial use with requiring land grants of land or destroying the view from our coastlines.

Our politicians are pushing these large project because there is a lot of money being passed around to secure future energy monopolies.

If you belief that solar that doesn't work at night or in bad weather will ever replace oil, coal, natural gas then you don't understand the inherent limitations of the technology. If you believe that setting up multi-billion dollar facilities that require more public money and land while needing further subsidies in the form of higher energy costs for users is the best solution then you are wrong again.

Give people a tax credit and change the rules to make the current energy provider work with these systems. Let the user mount a system on their home or business. Then they can make the investment calculation that is right for them. The technology will come down in cost and become more viable over time.

Then you have the best of all worlds. Free market solutions really make the most sense.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There once was a federal tax credit for those who installed solar panels for power generation and heating of homes and or water for use in the home.
Obama used political fiat to take that away.

It is still there but there are a lot of stipulations and both the manufacturer and the taxpayer have to jump through the hoops to qualify for the small energy credit. Most smaller manufactures haven't gotten their systems approved as they don't develop the whole system but put together a system from various manufacturers.

 

[mamooth]

i like it... but i think a combination of both. have solar panels become more efficient per square inch or foot ?

A little more efficient, but a lot cheaper.

how important is direct angling ?

Vital. A panel laying flat will lose a percentage of energy roughly equal to your latitude. So if you're at 45N, that's 45%.

The best solar installations have panels that move all day to track the sun across the sky, but that's not realistic for most home installations. This link talks about changing the angle 2 or 4 times a year to maximize efficiency.

Optimum Tilt of Solar Panels

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Recycling has nothing to do with energy and in many ways, it actually cost more energy to recycle some things, such as paper. So that's just a "Feel Good".

But again, much like wanting to yank Al Gore's Jet, that's all symbolic and not real. What we NEED to do is have POLICY to achieve goals on a marco-level. That means more research into renewables. It means mandating fuel efficiency without any bullshit "SUV" exceptions. That means investing more in public transportation.

and yes, i think there are some not liberal things we need to do. We need to put more into Nuclear Energy, and stop letting the folks in Nevada con us on Yucca Mountain. You took the money to build it, you take the fuel like you promised.

So in other words force people to use energy and transportation they hate.

Tree huggers hate nukes as much as they do fossil fuels. The greatest decrease in our pollution came from fracking and look how they are complaining about that. Windmills? Noise pollution and the animal rights kooks get in an uproar over dead birds. More money for public transportation? I guess 19 trillion in debt isn't enough for you on the left. Besides, you just stated that public transportation doesn't work for you, so inflict that problem on others? Typical lib.

Feel good is what global warming is all about. Ethanol creates more pollution than manufacturing gasoline, it ruins engines and has a low MPG rating, but environmentalists didn't care, as long as it meant burning less efficient fuel such as oil products.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

No, my boss did not take my health care away from me. Obama care did. My boss had nothing to do with it.

I was talking to Raycist from Cleveland, not you. His sad story was his poor employer couldn't afford health insurance anymore and put him on ObamaCare, and even though Raycist is an incredibly successful and so much better than those Darkies kind of guy, he apparently can't throw out some resumes and get a better paying job with decent health coverage.

I'm sure if you retell your sad story, we'd hear something similar, though.

Of course it is. That's why they are leaving this country by the droves. Would you like me to post my FactCheck article that disagrees with your opinion?

They are leaving hte country because they can get cheap-ass third world labor and poor toxic shit in the water supply. And you want us to be just like those countries.

Right, and our corporate tax has nothing to do with it.

Do you know what cities and states do to attract new business? That's right, they offer tax abatements. They work too. The less tax a company has to pay, the more they can invest in their own industries.

So what life form do we have now that's not adapting?

All the ones that are going extinct, you fucking dumbass.

What Animals Are Likely to Go Extinct First Due to Climate Change

Science. I know it's hard to get your mind around because they don't done talk about Jesus!!!!

Oh, extinction is that new thing huh? I know we never had animals go extinct until we came out with cars and trucks. I wonder how nice it was to live 300 years ago when there was no such thing as hurricanes or tornados either.

 

[Andylusion]

No, my boss did not take my health care away from me. Obama care did. My boss had nothing to do with it.

I was talking to Raycist from Cleveland, not you. His sad story was his poor employer couldn't afford health insurance anymore and put him on ObamaCare, and even though Raycist is an incredibly successful and so much better than those Darkies kind of guy, he apparently can't throw out some resumes and get a better paying job with decent health coverage.

I'm sure if you retell your sad story, we'd hear something similar, though.

Of course it is. That's why they are leaving this country by the droves. Would you like me to post my FactCheck article that disagrees with your opinion?

They are leaving hte country because they can get cheap-ass third world labor and poor toxic shit in the water supply. And you want us to be just like those countries.

So what life form do we have now that's not adapting?

All the ones that are going extinct, you fucking dumbass.

What Animals Are Likely to Go Extinct First Due to Climate Change

Science. I know it's hard to get your mind around because they don't done talk about Jesus!!!!

I don't have a sad sad story. In 2006, I had a private health insurance policy for $67 a month, that was basic catastrophic coverage. Due to ObamaCare, those policies are gone. All gone. They don't exist. You can't get one, no matter how much you want it.

Instead, the cheapest policy that I could find was $250 a month. That's the cheapest, most basic coverage policy you can get.

Of course it's subsidized by $170 by the government, down to $80 a month. So you are paying for my health care. Before, I paid for it myself. Now you are.

When your taxes go up, which they absolutely must.... you can blame yourself for it. I was more than happy to pay for my own health insurance, without taking a dollar from your taxes. But you people decided differently. So I'm going to milk you tax paying idiots for as much as I can. Your fault. Not mine.

They are leaving hte country because they can get cheap-ass third world labor and poor toxic shit in the water supply. And you want us to be just like those countries.

Not true. People invest in the US all the time. But they do so in non-union, non-regulated, non-screwed-over-by-leftwing-idiots parts of the economy.

If you people stopped trying to destroy successful corporations with taxes and regulations, we'd have more of them, and have more jobs.