Why I Don't Believe II

[alang1216]

My first thread on this topic was based on my teenage logic. A God who created a religion just didn’t seem to make sense to me.
Since then I’ve looked for evidence who we are and why we’re here. Regarding the later, I’ve never found the why beyond the rather sad we’re just expendable hosts for our unique set of immortal genes.
The who is the fascinating story or really a whole host of fascinating stories. The physical is the wonderfully complex universe governed by a few, simple, natural laws. The four forces coupled with evolution and an immense amount of time is, as I see it, all that was required to get to man. No supernatural intervention required after the initial creation of the universe. The non-physical story is even more interesting to me. How man became the unique animal he is today is his journey of scientific discovery and cultural evolution. We learned to hunt with bows and arrows and used them against each other. We domesticated horses and hitched them to plows and war chariots. I think I understand how we got here and it appears to me no God is needed. But religion must have come from somewhere and been valuable in some regard.
Man wanted to cure illness but he had no idea of the cause. Through trial and error some plants or techniques were found to be effective. Their use was passed down through generations as rituals. As the rituals increased in number and complexity it became an important but challenging job, going to the best and brightest, or at least the best connected. In ancient cultures where opportunities for learning were limited, these educated men performed a valuable service and religions developed around these rituals. Stories told around the campfires became the mythology of the new religion. These pagan religions were based on making this life better. You offered something to the gods and expected something in return. The early polytheistic religions were local and inclusive, you could worship many gods, so they served to unite people and foster cultural interactions. It was not until Christianity and later Islam that religions became exclusive and international.
Here we are but where are we going? Will religion die or will it morph yet again?

 

[MaxGrit]

I know with 100% certainty that what I say is what is true. Therefore, out of love, I am telling others what I know will happen after they die. Telling atheists about the reality of Hell is warning them of the danger that lies in the future. Truly, if I didn't love them, I wouldn't waste my effort to tell them.

"To the man who is an atheist and listens to this warning and calls upon Jesus to save Him, to give His life fully to Him and serve Him all his days - this message is a life saver and the man will one day be incredibly grateful for my thread and sharing the Famous Last Words testimonials ........and for having been convinced that it was just a matter of his heart having been hardened ( there is nothing wrong with our minds but our hearts must become soft and repent in order to receive truth and embrace it ) and he will be comforted in his conscience to be finally at peace with the LORD - so to him it is good news - because he hears and receives the truth."

 

[alang1216]

I know with 100% certainty that what I say is what is true. Therefore, out of love, I am telling others what I know will happen after they die. Telling atheists about the reality of Hell is warning them of the danger that lies in the future. Truly, if I didn't love them, I wouldn't waste my effort to tell them.

I envy you your certainty. I don't think I've ever been 100% certain about anything.

 

[PratchettFan]

My first thread on this topic was based on my teenage logic. A God who created a religion just didn’t seem to make sense to me.
Since then I’ve looked for evidence who we are and why we’re here. Regarding the later, I’ve never found the why beyond the rather sad we’re just expendable hosts for our unique set of immortal genes.
The who is the fascinating story or really a whole host of fascinating stories. The physical is the wonderfully complex universe governed by a few, simple, natural laws. The four forces coupled with evolution and an immense amount of time is, as I see it, all that was required to get to man. No supernatural intervention required after the initial creation of the universe. The non-physical story is even more interesting to me. How man became the unique animal he is today is his journey of scientific discovery and cultural evolution. We learned to hunt with bows and arrows and used them against each other. We domesticated horses and hitched them to plows and war chariots. I think I understand how we got here and it appears to me no God is needed. But religion must have come from somewhere and been valuable in some regard.
Man wanted to cure illness but he had no idea of the cause. Through trial and error some plants or techniques were found to be effective. Their use was passed down through generations as rituals. As the rituals increased in number and complexity it became an important but challenging job, going to the best and brightest, or at least the best connected. In ancient cultures where opportunities for learning were limited, these educated men performed a valuable service and religions developed around these rituals. Stories told around the campfires became the mythology of the new religion. These pagan religions were based on making this life better. You offered something to the gods and expected something in return. The early polytheistic religions were local and inclusive, you could worship many gods, so they served to unite people and foster cultural interactions. It was not until Christianity and later Islam that religions became exclusive and international.
Here we are but where are we going? Will religion die or will it morph yet again?

Religion does morph with society because religion is society. But to think it will go away simply because society changes ignores that fact that society is made up of people. So long as people think as they have always thought, nothing changes. I see absolutely nothing to indicate that is about to happen.

 

[PratchettFan]

I know with 100% certainty that what I say is what is true. Therefore, out of love, I am telling others what I know will happen after they die. Telling atheists about the reality of Hell is warning them of the danger that lies in the future. Truly, if I didn't love them, I wouldn't waste my effort to tell them.

I envy you your certainty. I don't think I've ever been 100% certain about anything.

I don't envy it. Certainty is like a suit of armor. It does provide protection from the world, but it is confining, restricts your vision and you can't feel the wind on your face.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

My first thread on this topic was based on my teenage logic. A God who created a religion just didn’t seem to make sense to me.
Since then I’ve looked for evidence who we are and why we’re here. Regarding the later, I’ve never found the why beyond the rather sad we’re just expendable hosts for our unique set of immortal genes.
The who is the fascinating story or really a whole host of fascinating stories. The physical is the wonderfully complex universe governed by a few, simple, natural laws. The four forces coupled with evolution and an immense amount of time is, as I see it, all that was required to get to man. No supernatural intervention required after the initial creation of the universe. The non-physical story is even more interesting to me. How man became the unique animal he is today is his journey of scientific discovery and cultural evolution. We learned to hunt with bows and arrows and used them against each other. We domesticated horses and hitched them to plows and war chariots. I think I understand how we got here and it appears to me no God is needed. But religion must have come from somewhere and been valuable in some regard.
Man wanted to cure illness but he had no idea of the cause. Through trial and error some plants or techniques were found to be effective. Their use was passed down through generations as rituals. As the rituals increased in number and complexity it became an important but challenging job, going to the best and brightest, or at least the best connected. In ancient cultures where opportunities for learning were limited, these educated men performed a valuable service and religions developed around these rituals. Stories told around the campfires became the mythology of the new religion. These pagan religions were based on making this life better. You offered something to the gods and expected something in return. The early polytheistic religions were local and inclusive, you could worship many gods, so they served to unite people and foster cultural interactions. It was not until Christianity and later Islam that religions became exclusive and international.
Here we are but where are we going? Will religion die or will it morph yet again?

If a loving and benevolent God exists, religions will die out.

If a loving and benevolent god doesn't exist, religions will flourish in the vacuum of evidence.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Atheists with mucho angst.

 

[alang1216]

Religion does morph with society because religion is society. But to think it will go away simply because society changes ignores that fact that society is made up of people. So long as people think as they have always thought, nothing changes. I see absolutely nothing to indicate that is about to happen.

To me, religion is the rules and rituals that comfort us not the spirituality we seek, although it may provide a path to that spirituality. I basically agree with what you say but religion may morph so much that we would not call it religion anymore. The New Age folk have changed God into Gaia. Some of us seem to be replacing organized religion with technology, including social media. Likely more people in the US go to Facebook than go to church. Who can imagine what religion will look like in the future.

 

[PratchettFan]

Religion does morph with society because religion is society. But to think it will go away simply because society changes ignores that fact that society is made up of people. So long as people think as they have always thought, nothing changes. I see absolutely nothing to indicate that is about to happen.

To me, religion is the rules and rituals that comfort us not the spirituality we seek, although it may provide a path to that spirituality. I basically agree with what you say but religion may morph so much that we would not call it religion anymore. The New Age folk have changed God into Gaia. Some of us seem to be replacing organized religion with technology, including social media. Likely more people in the US go to Facebook than go to church. Who can imagine what religion will look like in the future.

I think you are still looking at the trappings rather than what it is. Like looking at a house and only seeing the color of the paint and shape of the door molding without realizing there is a frame beneath it which is the actual house. Some may call God Gaia, or Vishnu, or Allah, or any one of a multitude of names, but it all comes down to the same thing, and that is not spirituality. It comes down to the identity of the group. Belief is done by the individual but religion is done by the group. The two are not the same thing.

So the trappings may change. The Southern Baptist Church may appear very different than the Temple of Ra, but the essence, the framework that is the real house, has not changed a whit.

 

[alang1216]

I think you are still looking at the trappings rather than what it is. Like looking at a house and only seeing the color of the paint and shape of the door molding without realizing there is a frame beneath it which is the actual house. Some may call God Gaia, or Vishnu, or Allah, or any one of a multitude of names, but it all comes down to the same thing, and that is not spirituality. It comes down to the identity of the group. Belief is done by the individual but religion is done by the group. The two are not the same thing.

So the trappings may change. The Southern Baptist Church may appear very different than the Temple of Ra, but the essence, the framework that is the real house, has not changed a whit.

If you define religion too broadly it encompasses all of society but ceases to have any useful meaning.

I think Europe is the future of religion. Just as birth rates decline as standards of living increase, religion or belief in God, or however you care to define it, will decline as education levels, personal security, and wealth increase. In this regard America is an outlier among nations but even here things are changing. It is now acceptable to be something other than Christian in this country.

 

[sealybobo]

My first thread on this topic was based on my teenage logic. A God who created a religion just didn’t seem to make sense to me.
Since then I’ve looked for evidence who we are and why we’re here. Regarding the later, I’ve never found the why beyond the rather sad we’re just expendable hosts for our unique set of immortal genes.
The who is the fascinating story or really a whole host of fascinating stories. The physical is the wonderfully complex universe governed by a few, simple, natural laws. The four forces coupled with evolution and an immense amount of time is, as I see it, all that was required to get to man. No supernatural intervention required after the initial creation of the universe. The non-physical story is even more interesting to me. How man became the unique animal he is today is his journey of scientific discovery and cultural evolution. We learned to hunt with bows and arrows and used them against each other. We domesticated horses and hitched them to plows and war chariots. I think I understand how we got here and it appears to me no God is needed. But religion must have come from somewhere and been valuable in some regard.
Man wanted to cure illness but he had no idea of the cause. Through trial and error some plants or techniques were found to be effective. Their use was passed down through generations as rituals. As the rituals increased in number and complexity it became an important but challenging job, going to the best and brightest, or at least the best connected. In ancient cultures where opportunities for learning were limited, these educated men performed a valuable service and religions developed around these rituals. Stories told around the campfires became the mythology of the new religion. These pagan religions were based on making this life better. You offered something to the gods and expected something in return. The early polytheistic religions were local and inclusive, you could worship many gods, so they served to unite people and foster cultural interactions. It was not until Christianity and later Islam that religions became exclusive and international.
Here we are but where are we going? Will religion die or will it morph yet again?

Here is why I don't believe any christian churches or other organized religions. The Christians joined up with the Republican party. The average household incomes in red neck states or "the bible belt" is less than $45K. It is higher in every other part of the country. So the people religion does best with are the poor and desperate and it keeps them down. Instead of praying to change their situation they pray to cope and wish for the pearly gates after they die.

And, the church asks for 10%. The GOP has already made the poor and middle class' life difficult with giving the rich tax breaks and raising our taxes. Gov. Snyder raised seniors taxes and gave his rich buddies tax breaks.

So the church wants 10% of $45K from a family? $4,500??? Fucking criminal. No wonder Americans can't get ahead.

 

[alang1216]

Here is why I don't believe any christian churches or other organized religions. The Christians joined up with the Republican party. The average household incomes in red neck states or "the bible belt" is less than $45K. It is higher in every other part of the country. So the people religion does best with are the poor and desperate and it keeps them down. Instead of praying to change their situation they pray to cope and wish for the pearly gates after they die.

And, the church asks for 10%. The GOP has already made the poor and middle class' life difficult with giving the rich tax breaks and raising our taxes. Gov. Snyder raised seniors taxes and gave his rich buddies tax breaks.

So the church wants 10% of $45K from a family? $4,500??? Fucking criminal. No wonder Americans can't get ahead.

Caveat Emptor. You could make the same case for state lotteries, alchohol, gambling casinos, use taxes and fees, etc. All affect the poor disproportionally. There comes a time for us to accept responsibility for our own actions. If we don't vote, which is true for most of us, and don't take an interest in politics we can only blame ourselves if we get the political system we deserve rather than the one we want.

 

[PratchettFan]

I think you are still looking at the trappings rather than what it is. Like looking at a house and only seeing the color of the paint and shape of the door molding without realizing there is a frame beneath it which is the actual house. Some may call God Gaia, or Vishnu, or Allah, or any one of a multitude of names, but it all comes down to the same thing, and that is not spirituality. It comes down to the identity of the group. Belief is done by the individual but religion is done by the group. The two are not the same thing.

So the trappings may change. The Southern Baptist Church may appear very different than the Temple of Ra, but the essence, the framework that is the real house, has not changed a whit.

If you define religion too broadly it encompasses all of society but ceases to have any useful meaning.

I think Europe is the future of religion. Just as birth rates decline as standards of living increase, religion or belief in God, or however you care to define it, will decline as education levels, personal security, and wealth increase. In this regard America is an outlier among nations but even here things are changing. It is now acceptable to be something other than Christian in this country.

I disagree. Seeing it for what it is is the only way for it to have a useful meaning. If you do not see that religion is all of society then you can never understand it and you certainly can never hope to predict how it might change.

 

[PratchettFan]

My first thread on this topic was based on my teenage logic. A God who created a religion just didn’t seem to make sense to me.
Since then I’ve looked for evidence who we are and why we’re here. Regarding the later, I’ve never found the why beyond the rather sad we’re just expendable hosts for our unique set of immortal genes.
The who is the fascinating story or really a whole host of fascinating stories. The physical is the wonderfully complex universe governed by a few, simple, natural laws. The four forces coupled with evolution and an immense amount of time is, as I see it, all that was required to get to man. No supernatural intervention required after the initial creation of the universe. The non-physical story is even more interesting to me. How man became the unique animal he is today is his journey of scientific discovery and cultural evolution. We learned to hunt with bows and arrows and used them against each other. We domesticated horses and hitched them to plows and war chariots. I think I understand how we got here and it appears to me no God is needed. But religion must have come from somewhere and been valuable in some regard.
Man wanted to cure illness but he had no idea of the cause. Through trial and error some plants or techniques were found to be effective. Their use was passed down through generations as rituals. As the rituals increased in number and complexity it became an important but challenging job, going to the best and brightest, or at least the best connected. In ancient cultures where opportunities for learning were limited, these educated men performed a valuable service and religions developed around these rituals. Stories told around the campfires became the mythology of the new religion. These pagan religions were based on making this life better. You offered something to the gods and expected something in return. The early polytheistic religions were local and inclusive, you could worship many gods, so they served to unite people and foster cultural interactions. It was not until Christianity and later Islam that religions became exclusive and international.
Here we are but where are we going? Will religion die or will it morph yet again?

Here is why I don't believe any christian churches or other organized religions. The Christians joined up with the Republican party. The average household incomes in red neck states or "the bible belt" is less than $45K. It is higher in every other part of the country. So the people religion does best with are the poor and desperate and it keeps them down. Instead of praying to change their situation they pray to cope and wish for the pearly gates after they die.

And, the church asks for 10%. The GOP has already made the poor and middle class' life difficult with giving the rich tax breaks and raising our taxes. Gov. Snyder raised seniors taxes and gave his rich buddies tax breaks.

So the church wants 10% of $45K from a family? $4,500??? Fucking criminal. No wonder Americans can't get ahead.

Almost 80% of the citizens of the US are Christian. If, as you claim, the Christians have lined up with the Republicans, why is there a Democrat in the White House and the Democrats hold the Senate?

 

[sealybobo]

My first thread on this topic was based on my teenage logic. A God who created a religion just didn’t seem to make sense to me.
Since then I’ve looked for evidence who we are and why we’re here. Regarding the later, I’ve never found the why beyond the rather sad we’re just expendable hosts for our unique set of immortal genes.
The who is the fascinating story or really a whole host of fascinating stories. The physical is the wonderfully complex universe governed by a few, simple, natural laws. The four forces coupled with evolution and an immense amount of time is, as I see it, all that was required to get to man. No supernatural intervention required after the initial creation of the universe. The non-physical story is even more interesting to me. How man became the unique animal he is today is his journey of scientific discovery and cultural evolution. We learned to hunt with bows and arrows and used them against each other. We domesticated horses and hitched them to plows and war chariots. I think I understand how we got here and it appears to me no God is needed. But religion must have come from somewhere and been valuable in some regard.
Man wanted to cure illness but he had no idea of the cause. Through trial and error some plants or techniques were found to be effective. Their use was passed down through generations as rituals. As the rituals increased in number and complexity it became an important but challenging job, going to the best and brightest, or at least the best connected. In ancient cultures where opportunities for learning were limited, these educated men performed a valuable service and religions developed around these rituals. Stories told around the campfires became the mythology of the new religion. These pagan religions were based on making this life better. You offered something to the gods and expected something in return. The early polytheistic religions were local and inclusive, you could worship many gods, so they served to unite people and foster cultural interactions. It was not until Christianity and later Islam that religions became exclusive and international.
Here we are but where are we going? Will religion die or will it morph yet again?

Here is why I don't believe any christian churches or other organized religions. The Christians joined up with the Republican party. The average household incomes in red neck states or "the bible belt" is less than $45K. It is higher in every other part of the country. So the people religion does best with are the poor and desperate and it keeps them down. Instead of praying to change their situation they pray to cope and wish for the pearly gates after they die.

And, the church asks for 10%. The GOP has already made the poor and middle class' life difficult with giving the rich tax breaks and raising our taxes. Gov. Snyder raised seniors taxes and gave his rich buddies tax breaks.

So the church wants 10% of $45K from a family? $4,500??? Fucking criminal. No wonder Americans can't get ahead.

Almost 80% of the citizens of the US are Christian. If, as you claim, the Christians have lined up with the Republicans, why is there a Democrat in the White House and the Democrats hold the Senate?

Because there are plenty of Christian Lights. They aren't really christians. Hell, most of them only say Christian because it was what they were raised. They really haven't given it much thought and they don't take all the miracle stories in the bible literally so I would tend to doubt that percent.

Plenty of gay christians. Plenty of pro choice christians. Plenty of liberal christians who see the GOP is the greedy party who doesn't want to feed the poor or heal the sick.

Fact is there is room for atheists in the Democratic tent but not the GOP tent. We also accept Muslims, blacks, gays and especially Mexicans. We love Mexicans. LOL.

 

[sealybobo]

My first thread on this topic was based on my teenage logic. A God who created a religion just didn’t seem to make sense to me.
Since then I’ve looked for evidence who we are and why we’re here. Regarding the later, I’ve never found the why beyond the rather sad we’re just expendable hosts for our unique set of immortal genes.
The who is the fascinating story or really a whole host of fascinating stories. The physical is the wonderfully complex universe governed by a few, simple, natural laws. The four forces coupled with evolution and an immense amount of time is, as I see it, all that was required to get to man. No supernatural intervention required after the initial creation of the universe. The non-physical story is even more interesting to me. How man became the unique animal he is today is his journey of scientific discovery and cultural evolution. We learned to hunt with bows and arrows and used them against each other. We domesticated horses and hitched them to plows and war chariots. I think I understand how we got here and it appears to me no God is needed. But religion must have come from somewhere and been valuable in some regard.
Man wanted to cure illness but he had no idea of the cause. Through trial and error some plants or techniques were found to be effective. Their use was passed down through generations as rituals. As the rituals increased in number and complexity it became an important but challenging job, going to the best and brightest, or at least the best connected. In ancient cultures where opportunities for learning were limited, these educated men performed a valuable service and religions developed around these rituals. Stories told around the campfires became the mythology of the new religion. These pagan religions were based on making this life better. You offered something to the gods and expected something in return. The early polytheistic religions were local and inclusive, you could worship many gods, so they served to unite people and foster cultural interactions. It was not until Christianity and later Islam that religions became exclusive and international.
Here we are but where are we going? Will religion die or will it morph yet again?

Here is why I don't believe any christian churches or other organized religions. The Christians joined up with the Republican party. The average household incomes in red neck states or "the bible belt" is less than $45K. It is higher in every other part of the country. So the people religion does best with are the poor and desperate and it keeps them down. Instead of praying to change their situation they pray to cope and wish for the pearly gates after they die.

And, the church asks for 10%. The GOP has already made the poor and middle class' life difficult with giving the rich tax breaks and raising our taxes. Gov. Snyder raised seniors taxes and gave his rich buddies tax breaks.

So the church wants 10% of $45K from a family? $4,500??? Fucking criminal. No wonder Americans can't get ahead.

Almost 80% of the citizens of the US are Christian. If, as you claim, the Christians have lined up with the Republicans, why is there a Democrat in the White House and the Democrats hold the Senate?

Bible barons How the GOP uses religion to keep voters captive to corporate ideology - Salon.com

 

[PratchettFan]

My first thread on this topic was based on my teenage logic. A God who created a religion just didn’t seem to make sense to me.
Since then I’ve looked for evidence who we are and why we’re here. Regarding the later, I’ve never found the why beyond the rather sad we’re just expendable hosts for our unique set of immortal genes.
The who is the fascinating story or really a whole host of fascinating stories. The physical is the wonderfully complex universe governed by a few, simple, natural laws. The four forces coupled with evolution and an immense amount of time is, as I see it, all that was required to get to man. No supernatural intervention required after the initial creation of the universe. The non-physical story is even more interesting to me. How man became the unique animal he is today is his journey of scientific discovery and cultural evolution. We learned to hunt with bows and arrows and used them against each other. We domesticated horses and hitched them to plows and war chariots. I think I understand how we got here and it appears to me no God is needed. But religion must have come from somewhere and been valuable in some regard.
Man wanted to cure illness but he had no idea of the cause. Through trial and error some plants or techniques were found to be effective. Their use was passed down through generations as rituals. As the rituals increased in number and complexity it became an important but challenging job, going to the best and brightest, or at least the best connected. In ancient cultures where opportunities for learning were limited, these educated men performed a valuable service and religions developed around these rituals. Stories told around the campfires became the mythology of the new religion. These pagan religions were based on making this life better. You offered something to the gods and expected something in return. The early polytheistic religions were local and inclusive, you could worship many gods, so they served to unite people and foster cultural interactions. It was not until Christianity and later Islam that religions became exclusive and international.
Here we are but where are we going? Will religion die or will it morph yet again?

Here is why I don't believe any christian churches or other organized religions. The Christians joined up with the Republican party. The average household incomes in red neck states or "the bible belt" is less than $45K. It is higher in every other part of the country. So the people religion does best with are the poor and desperate and it keeps them down. Instead of praying to change their situation they pray to cope and wish for the pearly gates after they die.

And, the church asks for 10%. The GOP has already made the poor and middle class' life difficult with giving the rich tax breaks and raising our taxes. Gov. Snyder raised seniors taxes and gave his rich buddies tax breaks.

So the church wants 10% of $45K from a family? $4,500??? Fucking criminal. No wonder Americans can't get ahead.

Almost 80% of the citizens of the US are Christian. If, as you claim, the Christians have lined up with the Republicans, why is there a Democrat in the White House and the Democrats hold the Senate?

Because there are plenty of Christian Lights. They aren't really christians. Hell, most of them only say Christian because it was what they were raised. They really haven't given it much thought and they don't take all the miracle stories in the bible literally so I would tend to doubt that percent.

Plenty of gay christians. Plenty of pro choice christians. Plenty of liberal christians who see the GOP is the greedy party who doesn't want to feed the poor or heal the sick.

Fact is there is room for atheists in the Democratic tent but not the GOP tent. We also accept Muslims, blacks, gays and especially Mexicans. We love Mexicans. LOL.

So they aren't real Christians. An interesting comment from a self-proclaimed Atheist.

 

[MaxGrit]

I know with 100% certainty that what I say is what is true. Therefore, out of love, I am telling others what I know will happen after they die. Telling atheists about the reality of Hell is warning them of the danger that lies in the future. Truly, if I didn't love them, I wouldn't waste my effort to tell them.

I envy you your certainty. I don't think I've ever been 100% certain about anything.

I don't envy it. Certainty is like a suit of armor. It does provide protection from the world, but it is confining, restricts your vision and you can't feel the wind on your face.

All of that are variables that depend on the armor's Maker.
Mine is like a human enhancing biosuit.
1) Protection, healing, nourishment.
2) Increased freedom of movement (strength, speed, reflexes, etc.).
3) Enhances the senses (vision, touch, hearing, smell, taste).
4) Additional communications capability
5) Enhanced information processing ability.

etc.

 

[Hollie]

My first thread on this topic was based on my teenage logic. A God who created a religion just didn’t seem to make sense to me.
Since then I’ve looked for evidence who we are and why we’re here. Regarding the later, I’ve never found the why beyond the rather sad we’re just expendable hosts for our unique set of immortal genes.
The who is the fascinating story or really a whole host of fascinating stories. The physical is the wonderfully complex universe governed by a few, simple, natural laws. The four forces coupled with evolution and an immense amount of time is, as I see it, all that was required to get to man. No supernatural intervention required after the initial creation of the universe. The non-physical story is even more interesting to me. How man became the unique animal he is today is his journey of scientific discovery and cultural evolution. We learned to hunt with bows and arrows and used them against each other. We domesticated horses and hitched them to plows and war chariots. I think I understand how we got here and it appears to me no God is needed. But religion must have come from somewhere and been valuable in some regard.
Man wanted to cure illness but he had no idea of the cause. Through trial and error some plants or techniques were found to be effective. Their use was passed down through generations as rituals. As the rituals increased in number and complexity it became an important but challenging job, going to the best and brightest, or at least the best connected. In ancient cultures where opportunities for learning were limited, these educated men performed a valuable service and religions developed around these rituals. Stories told around the campfires became the mythology of the new religion. These pagan religions were based on making this life better. You offered something to the gods and expected something in return. The early polytheistic religions were local and inclusive, you could worship many gods, so they served to unite people and foster cultural interactions. It was not until Christianity and later Islam that religions became exclusive and international.
Here we are but where are we going? Will religion die or will it morph yet again?

Religion does morph with society because religion is society. But to think it will go away simply because society changes ignores that fact that society is made up of people. So long as people think as they have always thought, nothing changes. I see absolutely nothing to indicate that is about to happen.

I certainly agree that religion morphs with society. As society has progressed, religions have "kept up" by redefining gods.

Humanity is evolving away from the theistic mythologies, that much is clear. Religious beliefs have nowhere near the power and clout they used to, and as science progresses forward, the god of the gaps pleadings get thinner and thinner.

Once, it was believed that many gods existed and that it was the hand of those gods that opened every flower, moved the planets and affected every ebb and flow of life. More recently, they’ve been reduced to being the Universe Winder. Now, they’ve become only the alleged inspiration of human authored books. One day, that too may be taken away from them as they are merely looked upon as myth as most are now. Speculatively, everything we've learned so far shows that the theisms are simply poetic perceptions of existence, important for their time, less relevant as we progress and learn the truth about existence. So yes, eventually when we come to the finish line of what is Truth, the natural explanation will reign supreme as it always has.

 

[PratchettFan]

My first thread on this topic was based on my teenage logic. A God who created a religion just didn’t seem to make sense to me.
Since then I’ve looked for evidence who we are and why we’re here. Regarding the later, I’ve never found the why beyond the rather sad we’re just expendable hosts for our unique set of immortal genes.
The who is the fascinating story or really a whole host of fascinating stories. The physical is the wonderfully complex universe governed by a few, simple, natural laws. The four forces coupled with evolution and an immense amount of time is, as I see it, all that was required to get to man. No supernatural intervention required after the initial creation of the universe. The non-physical story is even more interesting to me. How man became the unique animal he is today is his journey of scientific discovery and cultural evolution. We learned to hunt with bows and arrows and used them against each other. We domesticated horses and hitched them to plows and war chariots. I think I understand how we got here and it appears to me no God is needed. But religion must have come from somewhere and been valuable in some regard.
Man wanted to cure illness but he had no idea of the cause. Through trial and error some plants or techniques were found to be effective. Their use was passed down through generations as rituals. As the rituals increased in number and complexity it became an important but challenging job, going to the best and brightest, or at least the best connected. In ancient cultures where opportunities for learning were limited, these educated men performed a valuable service and religions developed around these rituals. Stories told around the campfires became the mythology of the new religion. These pagan religions were based on making this life better. You offered something to the gods and expected something in return. The early polytheistic religions were local and inclusive, you could worship many gods, so they served to unite people and foster cultural interactions. It was not until Christianity and later Islam that religions became exclusive and international.
Here we are but where are we going? Will religion die or will it morph yet again?

Religion does morph with society because religion is society. But to think it will go away simply because society changes ignores that fact that society is made up of people. So long as people think as they have always thought, nothing changes. I see absolutely nothing to indicate that is about to happen.

I certainly agree that religion morphs with society. As society has progressed, religions have "kept up" by redefining gods.

Humanity is evolving away from the theistic mythologies, that much is clear. Religious beliefs have nowhere near the power and clout they used to, and as science progresses forward, the god of the gaps pleadings get thinner and thinner.

Once, it was believed that many gods existed and that it was the hand of those gods that opened every flower, moved the planets and affected every ebb and flow of life. More recently, they’ve been reduced to being the Universe Winder. Now, they’ve become only the alleged inspiration of human authored books. One day, that too may be taken away from them as they are merely looked upon as myth as most are now. Speculatively, everything we've learned so far shows that the theisms are simply poetic perceptions of existence, important for their time, less relevant as we progress and learn the truth about existence. So yes, eventually when we come to the finish line of what is Truth, the natural explanation will reign supreme as it always has.

I don't see that particular evolution. We have moved away from tiny kingdoms into large nations, but that does not mean we are moving away from government. The same is happening with religion. We are moving away from many small religions into a few large ones, but religion remains.