Why is Building the Wall Wrong?

[dblack]

When a mob of people say they are going to violate our border, that pretty much defines an invasion.

No, it pretty much doesn't. You're equivocating - using the imagery of war to provoke fear.

 

[toobfreak]

Wall cowards gonna cower. "Protect me! I'm afraid! Of all the scary stories you've been telling me!" You morons are turning our nation toward fascism.

That's funny, you use the exact same reasoning calling for gun confiscation.

Yep. It's exactly the same. Politicians drum up phony fears to get people to give up their freedom.

You demand 100% gun confiscation ...

Uh... nope. You got the wrong guy. I'm opposed to gun control for the same reasons I oppose the wall.

There's nothing "phony" about the problems that illegals cause. They are real and demonstrable.

Just for starters:

Problems With Illegal Immigration

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Which is precisely the reason I oppose safety nets, welfare, free medical, and the minimum wage. But the answer is to reverse those bad decisions - not use them as an excuse to turn our nation into a fascist hellhole. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Enforcing our immigration laws and building a wall will turn this nation into a fascist hell hole? Based on what evidence?

It's not that we're putting citizens into internment camps or something.

These boneheads are actually trying to argue that foreigners have a right to emigrate to the United States.

Where do you get YOUR Rights from?

Some boneheads believe that Liberty is an unalienable Right and citizenship is a privilege. What do you think? Do you think that only some elite group of people were "endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights?

Instead of making allegations, I dare you to answer the questions and quit trying to anticipate where I'm going. If you knew that, you wouldn't have an immigration problem today.

The bottom line is that foreigners have no right to live in the United States.

End of story.

Based upon what, exactly?

 

[mudwhistle]

Mandatory.
Nationwide.
Federal Law.
Now.

Wall cowards gonna cower. "Protect me! I'm afraid! Of all the scary stories you've been telling me!"

You morons are turning our nation toward fascism.

Why don't you just move to a country that doesn't give a shit about freedom and loves authoritarian government as much as you do?

People that live in those shit holes are why we need a wall in the first place.

 

[Ame®icano]

The bottom line is that foreigners have no right to live in the United States.

End of story.

I actually have to disagree on this one. Partially.

Foreigners that are given permission to enter/live/work in the country do have right to be here.

If you were thinking of illegals, then I agree.

 

[toobfreak]

The wall isn't about protecting sovereignty against invasion.

But wide open borders are?

The fact that you call a mob of desperate poor people an "invasion" makes your whole argument laughable.

Nothing funny about up to 700,000 illegal aliens invading our country against our laws every year. If I'm desperate and poor and break into your home to rob you because you have more, you'd shoot me.

But it's not a joke. The walls, and other authoritarian laws that you're clamoring for, will still be there when the mob dwindles

If the mob ever dwindles, it will only be because they realize they can no longer easily get in, or there is no one left on the other side wanting in.

- a testament to fear and stupidity. And they will be used against you.

Yep. Can't wait to see how the wall on the Mexican border will be used against me.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Yeah. Did you forget what we talked about? Already?

Why don't you quote my whole post?

I'ts been discussed earlier in the thread.

Again. Nobody is cracking up on my travel, or citizen's travel or any of my constitutional rights.
Illegals have no rights to be here, therefore they have no constitutional rights that citizens have.

From where do you get your unalienable Rights from?

I see where your'e heading. No, I haven't said that illegals don't have any rights, they just don't have all constitutional rights and/or protections that citizens have.

The Courts disagree with you on that one. So, I have to ask you again, from where do your Rights come from?

Since you don't want to answer because you realize a very uncomfortable truth, is there any special reason you think you need the government to help you protect yourself from your own actions?

What court disagree with me? Do illegals have rights to be here or not? Do they have right to vote?

Where did you get that I am uncomfortable answering? I told you that I see where you're heading with it and I stay with my statement that illegals don't have all constitutional rights and/or protections that citizens have.

Now, you asked where my rights come from?

To answer that question, can you clarify what you considering that "rights" are?

America was founded on the principle that each person is born with unalienable Rights. The Declaration of Independence states:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

So, when I ask you where your Rights come from, I am in reference to the foundational principle found in the DOI as quoted above. Where do YOUR Rights come from?

Some people have a problem with inherent, natural, God given, unalienable, absolute, irrevocable Rights. So, as per the DOI all men have been bestowed by their Creator (their God, whomever they deem that to be) with unalienable Rights. If you disagree, I'm only asking where you get your Rights from. I'm not trying to start some shit with you, only looking for the disconnect. I'm trying to get beyond all the accusations and counter-accusations.

Do so - called "illegals" have a right (sic) to be here? I'm asking the question of if they do not have a right (sic) to be here, then are you of the opinion that government creates and / or grants rights?

I'm looking for where the disconnect is, not which side is right or wrong. I'm not here to ask you a question and then go off on a tangent calling you an idiot as most of these end up being like. I'm asking a question to see, exactly, where the disconnect is.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

The bottom line is that foreigners have no right to live in the United States.

End of story.

I actually have to disagree on this one. Partially.

Foreigners that are given permission to enter/live/work in the country do have right to be here.

If you were thinking of illegals, then I agree.

Where do you get your unalienable Rights from?

 

[bripat9643]

Enforcing our immigration laws and building a wall will turn this nation into a fascist hell hole? Based on what evidence?

It's not that we're putting citizens into internment camps or something.

These boneheads are actually trying to argue that foreigners have a right to emigrate to the United States.

Where do you get YOUR Rights from?

Some boneheads believe that Liberty is an unalienable Right and citizenship is a privilege. What do you think? Do you think that only some elite group of people were "endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights?

Instead of making allegations, I dare you to answer the questions and quit trying to anticipate where I'm going. If you knew that, you wouldn't have an immigration problem today.

The bottom line is that foreigners have no right to live in the United States.

End of story.

Based upon what, exactly?

Based on the Constitution and plain logic.

 

[bripat9643]

The bottom line is that foreigners have no right to live in the United States.

End of story.

I actually have to disagree on this one. Partially.

Foreigners that are given permission to enter/live/work in the country do have right to be here.

If you were thinking of illegals, then I agree.

Where do you get your unalienable Rights from?

My Constitutional rights come from the Constitution.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

It's not that we're putting citizens into internment camps or something.

These boneheads are actually trying to argue that foreigners have a right to emigrate to the United States.

Where do you get YOUR Rights from?

Some boneheads believe that Liberty is an unalienable Right and citizenship is a privilege. What do you think? Do you think that only some elite group of people were "endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights?

Instead of making allegations, I dare you to answer the questions and quit trying to anticipate where I'm going. If you knew that, you wouldn't have an immigration problem today.

The bottom line is that foreigners have no right to live in the United States.

End of story.

Based upon what, exactly?

Based on the Constitution and plain logic.

Can you show me what section of the Constitution that says foreigners have no right to live in the United States?

 

[bripat9643]

Why don't you quote my whole post?

I'ts been discussed earlier in the thread.

Again. Nobody is cracking up on my travel, or citizen's travel or any of my constitutional rights.
Illegals have no rights to be here, therefore they have no constitutional rights that citizens have.

From where do you get your unalienable Rights from?

I see where your'e heading. No, I haven't said that illegals don't have any rights, they just don't have all constitutional rights and/or protections that citizens have.

The Courts disagree with you on that one. So, I have to ask you again, from where do your Rights come from?

Since you don't want to answer because you realize a very uncomfortable truth, is there any special reason you think you need the government to help you protect yourself from your own actions?

What court disagree with me? Do illegals have rights to be here or not? Do they have right to vote?

Where did you get that I am uncomfortable answering? I told you that I see where you're heading with it and I stay with my statement that illegals don't have all constitutional rights and/or protections that citizens have.

Now, you asked where my rights come from?

To answer that question, can you clarify what you considering that "rights" are?

America was founded on the principle that each person is born with unalienable Rights. The Declaration of Independence states:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

So, when I ask you where your Rights come from, I am in reference to the foundational principle found in the DOI as quoted above. Where do YOUR Rights come from?

Some people have a problem with inherent, natural, God given, unalienable, absolute, irrevocable Rights. So, as per the DOI all men have been bestowed by their Creator (their God, whomever they deem that to be) with unalienable Rights. If you disagree, I'm only asking where you get your Rights from. I'm not trying to start some shit with you, only looking for the disconnect. I'm trying to get beyond all the accusations and counter-accusations.

Do so - called "illegals" have a right (sic) to be here? I'm asking the question of if they do not have a right (sic) to be here, then are you of the opinion that government creates and / or grants rights?

I'm looking for where the disconnect is, not which side is right or wrong. I'm not here to ask you a question and then go off on a tangent calling you an idiot as most of these end up being like. I'm asking a question to see, exactly, where the disconnect is.

The Constitution protects Americans, not foreigners. The countries where they live are responsible for providing them with protection, not us.

 

[bripat9643]

These boneheads are actually trying to argue that foreigners have a right to emigrate to the United States.

Where do you get YOUR Rights from?

Some boneheads believe that Liberty is an unalienable Right and citizenship is a privilege. What do you think? Do you think that only some elite group of people were "endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights?

Instead of making allegations, I dare you to answer the questions and quit trying to anticipate where I'm going. If you knew that, you wouldn't have an immigration problem today.

The bottom line is that foreigners have no right to live in the United States.

End of story.

Based upon what, exactly?

Based on the Constitution and plain logic.

Can you show me what section of the Constitution that says foreigners have no right to live in the United States?

The Congress shall have Power To...establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization....

Article I, Section 8, Clause 4​

 

[bripat9643]

The bottom line is that foreigners have no right to live in the United States.

End of story.

I actually have to disagree on this one. Partially.

Foreigners that are given permission to enter/live/work in the country do have right to be here.

If you were thinking of illegals, then I agree.

"They are given permission" means it's totally up to us, not them.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

The bottom line is that foreigners have no right to live in the United States.

End of story.

I actually have to disagree on this one. Partially.

Foreigners that are given permission to enter/live/work in the country do have right to be here.

If you were thinking of illegals, then I agree.

Where do you get your unalienable Rights from?

My Constitutional rights come from the Constitution.

So, for you, your Rights do NOT come from a Creator as per the Declaration of Independence. So, if they come for your gun, tell you that you WILL accept the Muslim faith, and your children will become wards of the state, you have told us you will support that proposition.

I'm only paraphrasing what you've said. Your claim is that government (i.e. the Constitution) is where your Rights originate from.

 

[toobfreak]

Enforcing our immigration laws and building a wall will turn this nation into a fascist hell hole? Based on what evidence?

It's not that we're putting citizens into internment camps or something.

These boneheads are actually trying to argue that foreigners have a right to emigrate to the United States.

Where do you get YOUR Rights from?

Some boneheads believe that Liberty is an unalienable Right and citizenship is a privilege. What do you think? Do you think that only some elite group of people were "endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights?

Instead of making allegations, I dare you to answer the questions and quit trying to anticipate where I'm going. If you knew that, you wouldn't have an immigration problem today.

The bottom line is that foreigners have no right to live in the United States.

End of story.

Based upon what, exactly?

You ARE an idiot, aren't you? Only natural born Americans have any RIGHT to this country. To all others, it is a privilege to be here, just as I have no "right" to live in England, France or Germany. I can go there, apply for a visa or citizenship, go for a visit, but I have no "right" to be there. I exist in their country ultimately at their pleasure.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Where do you get YOUR Rights from?

Some boneheads believe that Liberty is an unalienable Right and citizenship is a privilege. What do you think? Do you think that only some elite group of people were "endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights?

Instead of making allegations, I dare you to answer the questions and quit trying to anticipate where I'm going. If you knew that, you wouldn't have an immigration problem today.

The bottom line is that foreigners have no right to live in the United States.

End of story.

Based upon what, exactly?

Based on the Constitution and plain logic.

Can you show me what section of the Constitution that says foreigners have no right to live in the United States?

The Congress shall have Power To...establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization....

Article I, Section 8, Clause 4​

Naturalization is about citizenship. Not everyone who comes to the United States wants to become a citizen. Citizenship is a privilege.

Liberty is an unalienable Right.

 

[bripat9643]

The bottom line is that foreigners have no right to live in the United States.

End of story.

I actually have to disagree on this one. Partially.

Foreigners that are given permission to enter/live/work in the country do have right to be here.

If you were thinking of illegals, then I agree.

Where do you get your unalienable Rights from?

My Constitutional rights come from the Constitution.

So, for you, your Rights do NOT come from a Creator as per the Declaration of Independence. So, if they come for your gun, tell you that you WILL accept the Muslim faith, and your children will become wards of the state, you have told us you will support that proposition.

I'm only paraphrasing what you've said. Your claim is that government (i.e. the Constitution) is where your Rights originate from.

It doesn't matter where rights come from. The irrefutable fact is that government is what protects our rights, and our government was created to protect the rights of Americans, not foreigners.

 

[bripat9643]

The bottom line is that foreigners have no right to live in the United States.

End of story.

Based upon what, exactly?

Based on the Constitution and plain logic.

Can you show me what section of the Constitution that says foreigners have no right to live in the United States?

The Congress shall have Power To...establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization....

Article I, Section 8, Clause 4​

Naturalization is about citizenship. Not everyone who comes to the United States wants to become a citizen. Citizenship is a privilege.

Liberty is an unalienable Right.

You're saying the US doesn't have the right to control who crosses our borders?

 

[Porter Rockwell]

It's not that we're putting citizens into internment camps or something.

These boneheads are actually trying to argue that foreigners have a right to emigrate to the United States.

Where do you get YOUR Rights from?

Some boneheads believe that Liberty is an unalienable Right and citizenship is a privilege. What do you think? Do you think that only some elite group of people were "endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights?

Instead of making allegations, I dare you to answer the questions and quit trying to anticipate where I'm going. If you knew that, you wouldn't have an immigration problem today.

The bottom line is that foreigners have no right to live in the United States.

End of story.

Based upon what, exactly?

You ARE an idiot, aren't you? Only natural born Americans have any RIGHT to this country. To all others, it is a privilege to be here, just as I have no "right" to live in England, France or Germany. I can go there, apply for a visa or citizenship, go for a visit, but I have no "right" to be there. I exist in their country ultimately at their pleasure.

The United States is the only country on earth wherein you have Rights that are, literally, above the law. Actually we fought a war to get away from the tyranny of England; France is so unstable it has changed its form of government more than a dozen times in my lifetime. I don't think they will allow you have an AR 15 in Germany.

So, in essence, our Creator, the one who bestows upon us our Rights, is government. I wonder if there are any Christians that are for the wall and if they believe that only natural American born citizens have Rights.

When an employer hires a foreigner, then they have that employer's permission to be here. Why do they need YOUR permission? Do you own the jobs created in the private sector by way of a government / god?