Why is Building the Wall Wrong?

[Porter Rockwell]

I'm going to bed and will revisit Ray in a few hours.

 

[dblack]

I'm going to bed and will revisit Ray in a few hours.

Why?

 

[OKTexas]

Which is why they have been used for 18 centuries.

Sure, for 18 centuries our forefathers just couldn't come up with drones......Also, ask the Israelis how many tunnels have been dug under THEIR wall......lol

I can dig a tunnel under a drone even easier. Or just walk past it. Or shoot the drone down. Have any idea what a good drone costs? Who's going to fly it? Refuel it? Monitor its camera? Or camouflage myself so the drone doesn't see me. With a wall, people are stopped, The few that try to get over or under are picked up by cameras or drones, or vibration sensors or patrols, but someone still has to monitor all that. And they still have to get to the action. By the time your drone sees me and you get there, I'm LONG GONE buddy! At least with the wall, I was greatly slowed down giving you time to respond.

Gee, you act like they will be putting the wall in your backyard! Last I checked, most people along the border WANT the wall. And it can be easily paid for by simply collecting the fines every illegal is due us. According to my math, that comes to 53 billion dollars.

Poll: Majority opposes border wall with Mexico

So, is America a Republic or a Democracy?

Enough Americans voted for the wall to put Trump in office along with a butt load of congresscritters in 2016.

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[nat4900]

And just how in the hell do you propose we could take away their reason for coming here?

Well, morons like you can start here........

Donald Trump companies ignoring E-Verify, hiring illegal immigrants ...

Dec 6, 2018 - Trump business empire shuns E-Verify, hires illegal immigrants ... Republicans relinquish Congress with whimper: 'More missed opportunities than anything' ... empire are signed up to use E-Verify, the government's best tool to weed illegal immigrants out of the workforce, .... A lot of noise before the storm.
The Top 6 Anti-Immigration Activists Caught Using Illegal Labor

 

[Flopper]

Which is why they have been used for 18 centuries.

Sure, for 18 centuries our forefathers just couldn't come up with drones......Also, ask the Israelis how many tunnels have been dug under THEIR wall......lol

I can dig a tunnel under a drone even easier. Or just walk past it. Or shoot the drone down. Have any idea what a good drone costs? Who's going to fly it? Refuel it? Monitor its camera? Or camouflage myself so the drone doesn't see me. With a wall, people are stopped, The few that try to get over or under are picked up by cameras or drones, or vibration sensors or patrols, but someone still has to monitor all that. And they still have to get to the action. By the time your drone sees me and you get there, I'm LONG GONE buddy! At least with the wall, I was greatly slowed down giving you time to respond.

Gee, you act like they will be putting the wall in your backyard! Last I checked, most people along the border WANT the wall. And it can be easily paid for by simply collecting the fines every illegal is due us. According to my math, that comes to 53 billion dollars.

Security comes from those that guard a border. Border barriers simply slow an intruder down. So if you have a taller barrier, border guards don't have to patrol as often.

So you're proposing we collect a fine from people we don't catch that don't have any money. I think you should go back to having the Mexican government pay for it. At least it sounds better.

 

[OKTexas]

Well, I tell ya what, built that wall/fence/whatever high enough, and it'll sure as hell make it really hard to climb over. Maybe it doesn't totally solve the problem, but it does reduce it somewhat and that's better than nothing.

That's was what they thought when they put up 8 foot security fences 25 years ago and then 12 foot fences, then 18 foot reinforced fences. And now 18 or 20 foot barriers is going to do it.

Build a higher fence, and they will get a longer ladder, cut hole with a torch, or dig a tunnel

Well they won't be just strolling across will they? I don't think you understand the purpose of an obstacle. They are there to delay or force people to use tougher and more expensive means to accomplish their goals.

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[nat4900]

Trump will NEVER get money to build his ineffective "solution" to his re-election problems.

What will happen....eventually.....is that republicans in the senate will smarten up to save their own sorry asses and over-ride Trump's vetoes....

Which might well happen when Trump declares congress a national disaster for not giving him money to build his wall.

Looking at this objectively, the answer has got to be among Senate GOPers....


Trump desperately needs a wall for any remote chance for re-election....

Democrats in the House know the above very well, and they will NOT yield to his moronic, selfish wishes.

So, it will be among Senate GOP'ers to CHOOSE....loyalty to Trump....OR looking out for their own hides at the next election.

 

[nat4900]

Enough Americans voted for the wall to put Trump in office along with a butt load of congresscritters in 2016.

Moron,....was that when Trump "promised" that Mexico would pay for the wall??? LMAO

 

[nat4900]

Do any Trump ass kissers ever wonder why Trump didn't campaign and tell his cult the more honest slogan:

"We will build a wall...and YOU are going to pay for it"...

LOL

 

[OKTexas]

You’re boring me to death with your bleeding heart, save the world bullshit.
I know plenty of druggies with great parents.
Many druggies may have genetic issues so stop blaming everybody else.

You have an ignore button. Since you don't seem to be smart enough to figure out how to use it, PM me. I'll give you directions.

If you READ the thread, I've pointed out several culprits for the drug culture. Parents are only ONE of them.

We need to bomb Drug Cities South of the Border one at a time until they learn their lesson.

What we need is to lock mental incompetents like you behind four walls so you'd be happy and America would be safe from the stupidity.

Didn't you say walls don't work????? LMAO

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I didn't say it would work. I only said it would make YOU happy. In reality one only need to look at how many people were hoodwinked by ... well I won't name them, but we can't build enough walls to contain the idiots who find you amusing.

Yeah, you said walls don't work, yet you want to put the other poster behind 4 of them, a bit hypocritical ain't it and very inconsistent?

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[Flopper]

Well, I tell ya what, built that wall/fence/whatever high enough, and it'll sure as hell make it really hard to climb over. Maybe it doesn't totally solve the problem, but it does reduce it somewhat and that's better than nothing.

That's was what they thought when they put up 8 foot security fences 25 years ago and then 12 foot fences, then 18 foot reinforced fences. And now 18 or 20 foot barriers is going to do it.

Build a higher fence, and they will get a longer ladder, cut hole with a torch, or dig a tunnel

None of which is easy. You gonna carry a 20-some foot ladder all the way from Guatemala? Or a torch? Most of these people ain't local Mexicans, right? And digging a tunnel ain't easy, ya know? You think a drone will pick up evidence of a tunnel fairly soon after it's dug? Look, a wall or fence isn't foolproof, but it makes it harder to get into the USA and that's the point.

Border towns in Mexico sell everything you need to cross the border and i'm not kidding, maps to survival kits, climbing gear, ropes, ladders, shovels, you name it. There's also guides, better known as coyotes that have whatever equipment is needed.

The current Trump plan is to replace the 4 mile reinforced fence in El Paso with a wall. It is started and should complete sometime this year. If Trump gets his money then he will start construction to replace 112 miles of border wall in Southern California with a new wall adding another 100 miles.

Initially, no one is going over 20 foot walls. They will just pick another spot on the 1800 miles of border that easier to cross. Over the years as there becomes more walls people will start using ladders and other equipment to breach them. All this of course assumes democrats will never get control of government again and revise our immigration laws and the Mexican shortage of low cost labor doesn't force wages up and the cartels don't start blowing up walls.

 

[OKTexas]

You are on this board, joining in with misguided people and using the standard talking points associated with the nutty wall idea.

I see your philosophy is if you can't dazzle people with you brilliance you try to baffle them with your bullshit. You're doing a hell of a job on the latter.

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Typical Liberal bullshit; If you need an explanation, you’re not smart enough to understand it.

I understand fear and your need to join a pack of wolves while not discussing any portion of the subject doth testify as to the fear you have.

You seem to be mistaking common sense for fear, of course that's a standard regressive talking point.

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You know you're blowing smoke. You haven't shown any common sense - only an intense desire to troll me. How many IQ points does that take? You waste your time with that and what do you accomplish?

Yeah, I've been known for blowing smoke on occasion, but pointing out your irrelevance and use of regressive talking point ain't that. It's not trolling either. But laying waste to your misguided spew is entertaining.

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[OKTexas]

That's medical care for illegals.

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The medical care is provided to the biological host of a baby. So, level with me here, would you support abortion for those people instead?

No I would support shipping her ass out of the country before she drops a kid. And refusing entry to any pregnant woman.

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Good in theory, not always possible in practice.

Maybe we should buy some land in Mexico and set up birthing centers, if a woman gets close, just send her there until the kid is delivered. Any woman requesting a visa should have to prove shes not pregnant. This birth tourism has to be stopped too.

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Mexican women are going to stop having babies. They've discovered contraceptives. Birth rate is 2.18 and falling. By the time Trump get's his wall built, there won't be anyone to keep out.

What makes you think I was just talking about Mexicans, the Chinese are the major ones using birth tourism and I don't care where a foreigner has a kid as long as it not on US soil. How many of those Chinese kids will be coming back as spies, with US passports?

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[OKTexas]

Enough Americans voted for the wall to put Trump in office along with a butt load of congresscritters in 2016.

Moron,....was that when Trump "promised" that Mexico would pay for the wall??? LMAO

LMAO, no one expected Mexico to write a check so you can can your regressive talking points. All it does is get laughs.

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[OKTexas]

Do any Trump ass kissers ever wonder why Trump didn't campaign and tell his cult the more honest slogan:

"We will build a wall...and YOU are going to pay for it"...

LOL

It wouldn't have made any difference.

.

 

[OKTexas]

Well, I tell ya what, built that wall/fence/whatever high enough, and it'll sure as hell make it really hard to climb over. Maybe it doesn't totally solve the problem, but it does reduce it somewhat and that's better than nothing.

That's was what they thought when they put up 8 foot security fences 25 years ago and then 12 foot fences, then 18 foot reinforced fences. And now 18 or 20 foot barriers is going to do it.

Build a higher fence, and they will get a longer ladder, cut hole with a torch, or dig a tunnel

None of which is easy. You gonna carry a 20-some foot ladder all the way from Guatemala? Or a torch? Most of these people ain't local Mexicans, right? And digging a tunnel ain't easy, ya know? You think a drone will pick up evidence of a tunnel fairly soon after it's dug? Look, a wall or fence isn't foolproof, but it makes it harder to get into the USA and that's the point.

Border towns in Mexico sell everything you need to cross the border and i'm not kidding, maps to survival kits, climbing gear, ropes, ladders, shovels, you name it. There's also guides, better known as coyotes that have whatever equipment is needed.

The current Trump plan is to replace the 4 mile reinforced fence in El Paso with a wall. It is started and should complete sometime this year. If Trump gets his money then he will start construction to replace 112 miles of border wall in Southern California with a new wall adding another 100 miles.

Initially, no one is going over 20 foot walls. They will just pick another spot on the 1800 miles of border that easier to cross. Over the years as there becomes more walls people will start using ladders and other equipment to breach them. All this of course assumes democrats will never get control of government again and revise our immigration laws and the Mexican shortage of low cost labor doesn't force wages up and the cartels don't start blowing up walls.

So once again your admitting walls work and force people to use alternative methods. BTW the border is 1954 miles long.

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[eagle1462010]

3rd Century ...........Roman Walls............still standing today.............

Walls work.

WOW....."brilliant".......Maybe ROME will pay for the wall???..........LOL

Do you have a way of bringing them back from the dead..........hmmm.........from the 3rd Century...........LOL

They knew how to build a wall............and I bet there were some back then that said........Walls don't work like you........

 

[eagle1462010]

I was just kidding around. But seriously, I don't think I've ever been referred to as a moderate before.

I find it hilarious that those referring to people like you and I as moderates and leftists are primarily using socialist arguments - as Ray does to support their position.

But, rest assured, many of them KNOW what they're doing. They support socialism and are at peace with it, but since they cannot defend their position they rely on the standard canard of socialist philosophy while calling others names.

It's sad that all they have are meaningless platitudes and the talking points of socialists; they live in FEAR of having to participate in a real discussion and know, deep down, their position has flaws they don't want to address. So, instead of admitting the flaws, they make baseless accusations and allegations they would never say in person.

Obviously you don't know what Socialism is. Keeping people out of the country is not socialism, it's protection of the citizens.

You don't bother to read, do you? It is YOUR position that the jobs created are for the American people. That has nothing to do with your immigration argument. You are afraid to separate the two.

You have FINALLY been half honest with me, Ray. Your REAL objective is to keep people out of the United States. If you look back, it wasn't that hard, Ray.

I've always been honest about it, but you never cared for what I said.

Me being against immigration is for several reason, not just one. I've listed several of them, but there are actually more. And if you list those negatives of immigration vs so-called positives, you will find the negative beats the positive three to one.

If you were being honest, then you were ignorant and need to do some reading in several areas: general civics, history, law and constitutional interpretation.

That, most likely, explains why you try to pass me off as a liberal or a moderate instead of answering questions as they are asked of you.

Pretexts are not reasons. They are just that. For example, in my neighborhood, there are PLENTY of jobs almost anyone with an IQ higher than their shoe size can get. Most pay between $20 and $40 an hour. When they don't take them and Hispanics show up, I work them.

NOWHERE in that scenario does it give you any indication of where I stand on the issue. But, sometimes I need things done and have to work within a budget. If Americans don't apply for the jobs, I either get the help I need or lose what I own. It's that simple. Do you realize I've been at this for four decades now and not one single time has one of the people wanting a wall and bitching about jobs EVER walked away from their computer and applied for a job that I told them about?

Penalties

CIVIL VIOLATIONS

• Knowingly hired, or to have knowingly recruited or referred for a fee, an unauthorized alien for employment in the United States or to have knowingly continued to employ an unauthorized alien in the United States
• Failing to comply with Form I-9 employment verification requirements
• Committing or participating in document fraud for satisfying a requirement or benefit of the employment verification process or the INA
• Committing document abuse
• Unlawful discrimination against an employment-authorized individual in hiring, firing, or recruitment or referral for a fee
• Failing to notify DHS of a Final Nonconfirmation (FNC) of an employee’s employment eligibility
• Requiring an individual to post a bond or security or to pay an amount or otherwise to provide financial guarantee or indemnity against any potential liability arising under the employment verification requirements

CRIMINAL VIOLATIONS

• Engaging in a pattern or practice of hiring, recruiting or referring for a fee unauthorized aliens

What Is the Immigration Reform and Control Act (IRCA)?

What does IRCA mean to employers?
Obviously, employers cannot hire immigrants who are not authorized to work in the U.S. All workers must fit into one of the four following categories:

1. U.S. citizen
2. noncitizen national
3. lawful permanent resident
4. alien authorized to work

To check work authorization, the federal government requires a Form I-9 be filled out for every employee upon hire. This applies to U.S. citizens, too. The employee will fill out the first section and indicate their work authorization classification.

 

[eagle1462010]

Porter Rockwell is violating the law by hiring known illegals............That law was done under Reagan..........but these unlawful employers hire them anyway...........and then deny they are doing so if caught............This is going on all over the country, and the illegals just get fraudulent id's..........and then the employer goes............documents look good to me................even though they are lying............

E-Verify would end this..............along with amending the 1986 law to place employers in jail for hiring them.........Porter Rockwell would then get to argue from Prison for violating the laws of this country............

Do that........and he'd have to pay wages that would.........hmmmm..........get Americans to do........or he could sponsor workers through LEGAL MEANS.........after reading his posts he admitted to hiring illegals.........GUILTY AS CHARGED.

A little history of the law.........
Three Decades of Failed Reform: Immigration Politics and the Collapse of Worksite Enforcement

 

[eagle1462010]

And the following video........showing Phil Collins as an illegal giving money for the fake id's........when ICE catches them........They YELL ASYLUM......forcing a court date......because of a 2 year back log.......then they are released........don't show up for court........and get new fake id's........imagine that.